BEAR-AvHistory

The MDX is the bread & butter car for Acura because, with all due respect, they screwed the pooch with the 4G TL. Looking at the same sales numbers you did year by year you will see that the brand new 4G was outsold by the prior year 3G TL by about 10,000 units.

The 3G turned in year after year 50K+ sales & the 4G has never gotten out of the 30’s. Best year vs. best year its 34K for the 4G & 78K for the 3G.

KeithL

and TSX?

deepen03

I mean Lexus's models make no sense either.. you just know because you know. how can one see a difference between an IS, ES, GS, LS or RX? unless they are a Lexus owner or follower? same goes for us, we are all Acura owners/followers, so we will know what each model is no matter what. I really think they can keep the TSX alive. and if importing from Japan is the issue, then worst case, they can make them in America. Now the one thing I love about my TSX is the build quality of a Japanese manufactured car, so I wouldn't like that.

deepen03

TSX = Touring Sedan eXperimental
MDX = Multi-Dimension eXperimental

found that in the forums

or like a guy said here.. you can always go with Totally SeXy

https://acurazine.com/forums/1g-tsx-2004-2008-124/tsx-meaning-649268/

LawnPro

Keith - are you thinking of replacing your M37 with a 5G when it comes out?

KeithL

Possibly, but I may order another M37 Sport Touring with Tech. I am a little dissointed in Acura styling, and honestly the new trend of no exhaust tips kinda looks lame to me. And the RLX/MDX new interiors are a bit too conservative for me. And lastly I have been bitten by the RWD bug. I drove a RLX for 45 min on highway and regular roads and it just felt so so, got back in my M and even after 3 years was more impressed.

weather

^^^ I am in a similar situation. I am holding tight until I see the styling and the technology offered in the TLX but I am 95% sure that I will be making an exit from the Acura family next spring and join either:

1. Infiniti Q50
2. Audi S4/S5

Unless of course that Acura really hits a home run with its TLX. From what I heard from talking to an Acura dealer, they saw a silhouette of the TLX prototype and he said it looked like a baby RLX which wouldn't be what would get my mojo going....but I am keeping an open mind until I see the pictures or the real thing.

KeithL

I test drove A4 and S4 recently a few times and verys nice cars, but they are tight inside especially coming from a TL. The S4 was very refined ride and handling, hate to say better than AWD TL, but the current gem A/S4 is long in the tooth, interior while nice is not on par with quality of TL AWD. Their tech is decent, but I found interior cramped, I am 6 foot and 200 lbs. I loved the ride though, one of the best riding cars I have driven, just throw it into turns dry or wet and t goes. I am curious to see the Q50 as well, but since t is an evolved G I know that too will be a little tight inside for me. My M really has me spoiled with a ride that is very comfortable, but handles very well for my needs and has plenty of room inside. It is far from the AWD TL and Audi in handling, but for 98% of my needs it excels.

weather

^^ Quite frankly, that is one thing I would like about the S4 or Q50....Being 5'10-5'11 but on the very slim/small framed, having a smaller car inside will fit more like a glove and one of the main reason I am excluding the RLX to my shopping list. I agree with you though, I really wish we'd have some sneak peak of the TLX, the latest I heard from an Acura dealer is that from the silhouette photos they saw, it looked like a baby RLX which wouldn't be quite what I am hoping for.

KeithL

Acura really needs to make the TLX look like the Concept C they showed last year in China, that would be a killer car. They do SH-AWD in that and I will line up to get it. I have about 60-90 days until I will have to order my M so if they give some hints by then I may wait. Shame of it is I am being offered a 4G AWD Advance for $40,360 including splash guards, truck tray and wheel locks. Not a bad deal, but as much as I want to grab it I think I will be kicking myself since I will have to be in it 24 months before I can get out.

Mr.Skytech

iTrader: (13)

What acura Dealer is giving you that deal? I might just take it.

HeartTLs

iTrader: (5)

Dealers occasionally let lease holder out of a lease early to get into a new one.


I thought you needed a family hauler?

mugen_kid

Looks like we will be seeing a more production ready Concept C next week at the Shanghai Motor Show. Check it out here http://www.leftlanenews.com/honda-ac...-shanghai.html. I really think the Concept C has great lines in some areas. Kind of excited to see what they have done to it next week

Slithr

I guess I must have missed something. I thought I heard that the TL/TLX was dead.

KeithL

Ed Volyes Acura in Atlanta. I actually think there are dealers tha would do a little better, but Ed Voyles is offering me about $1K more on my trade than anyone else.

KeithL

TSX is likely dead, the TLX will occupy the place of the TSX and TL.

KeithL

I hope they show both and indicate if the C is the TL replacement. A X1 competitor would be once too, the GF wants a RDX, but does not need something as big.

JM2010 SH-AWD

I think we'll be getting a very solid clue as to the TLX's appearance on the 19th. With some detail clean up on the Concept C, I think it could be a great-looking car.

Mr.Skytech

iTrader: (13)

I do need a hauler but its costing me 85 a week. The TL does much better. BTW, how is the ride on those 20's?

HeartTLs

iTrader: (5)

Ouch. Time for a RDX? They get as good mpg as a FWD TL. I no longer have my silver 4G or the RJ 20's.

crxb

this may be of interest for a possible TLX SH-AWD model
on the Temple of VTEC web site they have a 3 part video interview w/ the 2014 MDX designer. near the end of the 1st video the talks about the SH-AWD drive system - some friction reduction and then he talks about Agile Handling Assist technology (said this is on the front wheel drive and the AWD models - basically it's a brake torque vectoring system - sets you up as you enter a turn and then on the AWD model the the regular SH-AWD system handles the vectoring as you accelerate out of the turn

so this is a "updated" version of the same SH-AWD system currently on the TL
not the Hybrid/SH-AWD of the RLX
and I imagine much less expensive

here is the link to the 1st video

http://www.vtec.net/articles/view-ar...cle_id=1141229

Devil Dog 21

10,000 units is obviously a lot, but how much of the decline in sales can be attributed to the economy from 04 to 08 when the 3G was selling, vs the 4G which hit during a time when new cars weren't exactly a priority for most households?

JT4

^^ I tend to agree.

While the introduction of the 4G’s beak certainly didn’t help sales, IMO I don’t think sales would have fallen off as sharply had it not been for the significant economic downturn we all experienced.

Even after the economy started to slowly turn around years later, borrowing wasn’t as easy as it was in the past for some. People lost jobs and those who didn't began to save more and keep their cars which is what pushed the demand for used vehicles.

I’m not making excuses for Acura, like I said the beak certainly hurt sales. But IMO I really don’t think it would have been this bad. There were other factors involved.

JM2010 SH-AWD

Not to mention additional competitors in the segment that the 3G basically had virtually to itself for several years.

KeithL

Sure the economy had some impact. But even with the recovering economy a 7year old G still outsells a 5 year old TL virtually every month.

Edward'TLS

^^^^^

RWD vs. FWD ?

RWD-biased AWD vs FWD-biased AWD ?

330hp vs. 305hp ?

KeithL

^^^
Does it matter? 90% of the people buying the G or TL are not buying it because one has more HP than the other and likely don't care which is FWD,AWD or RWD. Styling is what brings people in the door.

Edward'TLS

^^^^^

I don't know, but RWD 3-series and RWD C-class are flying off the shelves, compared to the 4G TL. Can you smell some similarities ?

TeamAcura

Historically, the 3 series and C-class has always sold well. Keep in mind these numbers take into account coupes as well. With many trims such as coupe, sedan, AWD, RWD, AT, MT, different engine configurations, etc., these models will attract more buyers and they also have heritage to back them up. The TL only offers the sedan version.

I do agree their hayday was from 04-08 but comparing those numbers to the 3 series, C-class and even the G is not even close. You actually start to see a big drop off for the TL in '07. But looking at the sales figures for all makes and models and one can see all of them experienced a drop off. Interestingly, the 4G has actually remained stable since it's intro. Although a far cry from Acura's projected 50K units per year mark.

http://www.goodcarbadcar.net/2011/01...s-figures.html

KeithL

And look at all the discounting and incentives Acura has had to throw at the TL in recent month to even maintain those numbers.

Edward'TLS

^^^^^

Which is good for all of us as consumers.

TeamAcura

^^ True but I also think they are trying to obviously clear their inventory before the intro of the TLX. My theory to the delay is they want to build hype and make the TLX a hit from the start and I hope I'm right. I attached a jpeg for everyones' convenience to compare those models from my previous post.

KeithL

Clear inventory? The TLX is not due for another 9-10 months, there is no inventory to clear yet, they need to keep the line moving at a certain pace so they need to move cars.

Edward'TLS

Maybe this is the reason why the TL and Acura products are never as popular as the BMW and MB - the lack of choices (custom ordering, body option, tranny option, engine option, accessory option, high-performance trim option, etc.)

Should it be the wakeup call for Acura to address it's deficiency in the lack of custom choices, in an effort to make it's products to become more popular, to make more sales, and to earn more profits ?

If it is the lack of trims that prevent the TL from gaining more sales, it is Acura itself who asks for it.

JT4

While I do agree that styling plays a role in one's decision, I do think there is an importance to the HP numbers in this class,even if you will never push the car to the limit.

I happen to like the G37 styling, but what is so exciting or beautiful about it that would make it the primary reason it outsells the 4G TL. Is it a good car, sure. Is it a better car, I don’t think so.

The G37 was introduced as a 2009 model, but in 2011 Infiniti took a proactive approach and gave the G37 a refresh. I think the fascia, grill and other exterior changes were made. This gives the impression to some of a new model, and let’s not forget the addition of the limited IPL model.

The G37 IPL model upped the HP to 348 and torque to 276, numerous interior and exterior cosmetic upgrades were made with most of them unique to the IPL model. These are the type of changes that spark excitement and get people in the door. Think “bait and switch”..

What does Acura do to spark excitement. The 2012 4G gets a MMC, obvious cosmetic changes, some sound deadening, ventilated seats, larger hardrive and finally a 6SP AT. I mean really, Infiniti went to a 7SPD AT in 2009 and 3 years later Acura finally puts a 6 SPD AT in the TL. Even if you really don’t need the extra gear the perception IMO is Infiniti is on top of their game while Acura is once again late to the party.

IMO if Acura gave you a choice of a 4G sedan, coupe and vert, with 330-350HP and took a proactive approach to keeping it fresh. While Infiniti only offered one model, the G37 sedan with 300 HP the 4G TL (as ugly as some, not me, think it is) would have outsold the G37.

While form is definitely a factor when making a decision, function and choice also plays a big role.

KeithL

Ask 10 average people how much HP their G has and I bet most will never know. It is import for some that are attracted by that, but honestly most people never dent the power and of these cars. Now the IPL version that makes sense because that is the target market, people that want raw performance.

KRIZ PR

I get your point....but to me infinity don't even come close to a Acura Tl....come on...their cars are good but thats it..those cars have many problems outside of the motor...at least in my experience. ..if you are over 40 ..then you might like it but for the younger people for example im 29 ..and I don't fine infinity a head turning just another car...a had previously owned a G 35 2007 with brembo and I didn't like it at all except from the clock in the dash..plus all the problems that come with it..not motor btw...those are pretty reliable. ..a had a lexus is 350 lexus and is so much better all around except hp wise...bmw much better. .mbenz..amg wow...

In my opinion they have to try and change things because if not they be out of the radar quickly. .the only infinity I like is the g 37 coupe...don't even care for the sedan..

But I know that's my opinion only...some older people gonna like them...but at the end the young people mid 20 and low 30 are the future of business. ..

Again. ..sorry ..if you don't think the same...just my opinion base on new car sales ...the only brand in here with positive sales compared with the sales last year are Honda , Acura, Bmw, mitsubichi ...all the others have reported less sales than last year by this time

Edward'TLS

I agree that the average owners may not know how much HP their G has, and given only one engine choice, it is guarantee that every G37 sedan has exactly 328hp and a 7-speed auto tranny, nothing less.

But once their 328hp 7-AT RWD G37 sedan pulls up parallel to the lighter 280hp FWD TL or the heavier 305hp AWD TL at a traffic light; when the light turns green, all the G37 owners need to know is that they will always win the drag race with the unknown amount of HP under their right foot.

They may not know how much HP, but they will definitely know winning or losing in a HP drag race.

JT4

I love my 4G, I was only responding to IMO what could be one of the reasons for the lack of sales over the years.

BTW no reason to say sorry we don't have to agree. That's the beauty of the forum, to voice our opionions...

BEAR-AvHistory

About the hard times in 2009. All the cars in the segment took a major hit in 2009. That can be chalked up to the economy because the sales curve is consistently down across the board in most cases.

The problem is they all went into recovery in 2010 with improved sales but since then TL sales have been flat at less than 1/2 the historical rate of the 3G. Once the pent-up demand for all the was burned off in 2010 the rest of the segment went back to their historical norms.

Sales 2008/9/10

Acura TL

46000
33000
34000

BMW 3
112000
90000
110000

Infinity G
64000
47000
58000

Audi A3
4700
3800
6500

MB - C Class
72000
52000
58000