1Louder

^ In researching my next car, I found that Lexus offered a lot of very attractive hybrid options (I would have been all over an IS250h or even a RC350h), but does not sell them in the US. It would seem that Acura, Lexus, BMW, Audi, etc. all have it in their heads that all we want is performance, and a luxury hybrid that's capable of 50+ mpg doesn't fit that mindset. They just don't think it will sell. Which I find very frustrating. I guess as long as we have "cheap" gas something like a 300h is a close as we'll get. The hybrids offered on the higher end cars (RLX, LS600h) aren't really there for mileage, but a boost in performance.

I share some of your considerations for a car. I make a decent salary and as much as I like Honda, it doesn't rise to level of luxury and technology that I want. Same for a Prius, but even more so.

I despise the fact that in America they've painted us into a corner where if we want mileage, we have to compromise on the car. A luxury car, in the class of a 3-series, that gets 50+ mpg is perfectly attainable and has been for some time. Just no one wants to sell us one.

boe_d

The accord hybrid is somewhat in a class of its own at the moment - normal car styling, sub 8 sec 0-60 acceleration (the prius is about 10) and nearly 50mpg. The Lexus hybrid is OK and one of the cars I am considering but even it lags on acceleration just a smidge (about a half a sec over the Accord) and the MPG is about 40.

I'd be fine if the TLX hybrid got 45MPG and still got sub 8 sec acceleration provided it kept all the luxury features of the TLX. If they made the TLX hybrid a turbo hybrid it could easily achieve this. I guess the question is how comfortable people are with Hodna's new hybrid tech.

My attitude is if Honda's new hybrid tech has any serious issues it will be covered under warranty so I'll take the chance if they offer it.

I think you won't get a lot of buy in on this forum as many people here seem hell bent on a 500HP Accord (preferably with large letters on the car stating it is 500HP), tailpipes showing and MPG be damned. They'll say why not just get a prius (which has slow acceleration and an unusual shape).

neuronbob

I think Acura will put the RLX Sport Hybrid's eSH-AWD on the TLX eventually. It just won't be in 2016. They are probably waiting for what us RLX beta-testers have to say first. I am of the opinion that the system Acura is using places performance above fuel economy. I say that because my fuel economy is terrible, and likely for multiple reasons (cold weather where I live and I don't hypermile, among others). However, my big car is pretty fast. We estimate high 4's-low 5 0-60 in decent conditions. Really.

Imagine what the Sport Hybrid could do for a TLX....it's several hundred pounds lighter than an RLX.

If the eSH-AWD system comes to the TLX, it would most likely be a TLX-S format made more for performance than fuel economy.

My bet is that it will happen. When is the question.

wowzer

I would also add that the concept of a hybrid appeals to my general sense of being more economical...regenerative braking is awesome.

boe_d

You may be right but I think it would be unfortunate. About a decade or so ago they made an Accord hybrid. The focus was on performance, not MPG - they couldn't sell the things. Now they have one that has adequate performance and GREAT MPG - they can't keep them on the lot. I'm not saying that Acura TLX and Accord are competing for the exact same people but I think there is a somewhat of a similarity in the mentality of the people buying them. Bang for the buck and quality. They already make a V6 - they could make a type S that has 350HP or some inane amount and they could make a TLX-H that benefits from the success of the Accord hybrid tech.

BC01191980

The ILX didn't sell well since it had the civic hybrid engine.

Anyone who agrees with an Acura TLX hybrid version of the accord hybrid should lobby Acura to do this.

Just keep asking and maybe they will help their customers.

mapleloaf

It would seem that Acura has dropped the ILX Hybrid for the 2016 model and would therefore be unlikely to do a TLX hybrid anytime soon…..unless they want to do the RLX Sport Hybrid thing. Time and fuel prices will tell!

1Louder

^ Pulling the ILX hybrid just reinforces the idea that Americans don't want fuel economy in their luxury cars. I think there is a market, they just haven't found the right car for it yet.

boe_d

The Honda Civic Hybrid gets 44/47 MPG
The Honda Civic Hybrid accelerates from 0-60 in 9 to 10.5 seconds (depending on who you believe)


The ILX hybrid got 24/35 MPG
The ILX hybrid accelerated from 0-60 in 9.0-10.2 seconds (depending on who you believe)

The Accord hybrid gets about gets an average of 50/45 MPG
The Accord hybrid accelerates from 0-60 in 7 to 7.8 seconds (depending on who you believe)


It just reinforces that Americans don't want a hybrid with BOTH crappy acceleration AND crappy MPG. I looked at the specs on it and thought WTF? If it got 0-60 in 5 seconds or something I could see the point of the hybrid or if it got 50MPG I could see the point of the hybrid but it pretty much sucked in every respect. This was pretty much why the original Accord hybrid from about a decade ago was unpopular (terrible MPG for a hybrid). I have a friend who says he's averaging 50MPG in the Accord Hybrid (not plug in) that he bought in November. I have a lead foot so I'd be impressed if I got 42MPG on average. That would be a little more than double what I get in my current TL.

wowzer

Ugh...to make matters more difficult for me, I've been reading up on the VCM for the V6 model. It appears to be achieving some splendid MPG on the highway--and in many cases out stripping the 2.4L because only 3 cylinders are firing.

https://acurazine.com/forums/fifth-g...so-far-925866/


This means that my pendulum is swinging back towards Acura (hurray!)...but my thoughts keep nagging at me to be 100% sure before buying the TLX V6. So I did my second test drive today, and the TLX V6 is the better car (vs 2.4L), as the quiet smoothness of the V6 wins out.

fsttyms1

I dont think that has anything to do with it. I think it had more to do with the price, less than adequate mpg/performance(especially when trying to separate itself from the normal ILX), and the overall style that wasnt selling the normal ILX like Acura wanted.

1Louder

True. I was just recalling how I read over and over again why some luxury hybrids are sold in Europe only and not here is because of the perception auto makers have that American's don't want it. That is, Americans aren't willing to put up with the performance hit you take to get 50 MPG. I would, and I think a lot of other people would too. A 50 MPG TLX with the 4-cyl and ~200 hp would have been a no brainer. Yes much of that can be found in the Accord, but I sat in an Accord hybrid and then a TLX. The contrast is significant. I shouldn't have to put up with bad seats and a mediocre interior just to get 50 mpg. I'm in the car for 2 hrs a day - the interior and overall ride matter as much as MPG.

boe_d

Exactly - that is why if Acura had a hybrid tlx that even got 42MPG average and had about a 7 sec for 0-60, I'd be glad to take the drop in MPG from the Accord to get the luxury seating and other appointments. However I'm not willing to buy an acura where I'll probably average about 30mpg, even if it had a Lazy Boy Recliner for a front seat. The Lexus ES 300h is about 40MPG and from what I hear it sells about 25% of all ES sales, unfortunately, the hybrid in the ES 300h while nice, isn't as advanced as the new Accord hybrid. The IS300h from what I hear is not sold in the US for some safety issue but that is just a rumor as far as I know.

wowzer

While the Lexus hybrid isn't as advanced, it certainly has been a proven winner...and only Lexus (that I'm aware of) is able to claim thousands of cars with their synergy drive technology. I think that Honda's system will hold up over the years...but only time will tell.

9SpeedTran

What I find fascinating is that Acura's SH-SH-AWD design seems to point to a roadmap for all electric vehicle. THAT is something I would like to see, something far more affordable than the Tesla Model S with AWD but with comparable performance and (potentially) even better handling.

CoquiTSX

More than that, since is the same system as the Camry, Avalon, etc.

BC01191980

I wonder if Acura has anything to show off at the New York auto show in the spring. Most likely that will let us know if they plan on more models of TLX. I am already trying to decide 4 cyl or v-6. I am counting the days when I can turn in my civic hybrid lease.

If they don't make a hybrid, I hope they can make start stop a feature in all models of the TLX.

I already know I want the tech package.

Don't really need advance or sh awd

Stew4HD

I do not like the start-stop feature on my SH-AWD and it seems most others feel the same. I am hoping that Acura comes up with a software fix for being able to turn it off in the settings menu though I am not holding my breath. The transmission acts differently because of the start-stop too, even when the feature is disabled. I find it quite annoying. It has me questioning my decision to go with an SH-AWD model, that is how much I dislike the Idle-Stop

1Louder

So I'm a little puzzled. You can turn it off - there is a button near the drive controls. Additionally, you can prevent it from engaging if you don't press down hard enough on the brake when stopped. Takes some training but you can do it. Also it has no real effect on the transmission performance. Selecting econ/normal/sport/sport+ will, but the only impact idle stop has is the moment when the engine has to restart - there's a short moment when the engine fires up and transmission engages.

Stew4HD

Even when I turn off the Idle Stop feature, the transmission still does not function in what I think is normal during stops, especially very short stops. It may be working as intended but I am not happy with it, at all.

I won't derail this thread with my issue on it, it's been discussed in the Problems/Fixes section. I am in touch with the dealer, again, about this.

1Louder

^True, I think the car has some low-speed transmission issues. At my first oil change, I'm going to have the dealer look into it. Seems to be a documented issue with the shifts from 1-2 and 2-3. I thought mine were pretty minor, but the more I drive the more I notice the difference. Shifting 3-4 and up happen flawlessly and you can't even tell unless you are looking at the tach. 1-2 and 2-3 you feel the bump.

Stew4HD

^ Indeed. I have no problem with the 1-2, 3-4 hard shifts, I kind of like it but it's the rolling start accel (or lack of) that is starting to really piss me off.. I should have bought the FWD Advance.. at least that is how I feel now.

I don't know how Hybrids handle this situation (Idle Stop)

1Louder

^ I drove a Civic Hybrid for a number of years (2002). The idle stop was different. With a hybrid, you have that massive battery that can restart the engine instantaneously. By the time you move your foot from brake to gas, the engine ready. With the TLX, I notice they use the regular starter to restart the engine. While it's reasonably quick, not as quick and if you move your foot too fast, you'll catch it not fully ready to go.

fsttyms1

360,089 people in 2014 say other wise

fsttyms1

Unless the car is a hybrid where it can start off instantly on its own with electric motors to give the engine a chance to start up when caught off guard by a quick transition from brake to gas, they shouldnt put that feature on a car

1Louder

I have a bad back, so yes the seats were bad for me, and I wasn't impressed with the interior. Not repulsed, just not impressed. But it's personal taste - if it did the trick for 360,089 people then great. Truth is it was my second choice of car, but I thought it fell short in those two areas. And after driving the TLX, the mileage difference was more than offset by the differences in ride and interior.

boe_d

Hard to know how many people would disagree with them since there is no hybrid TLX to purchase.

BC01191980

I test drove the nx hybrid today at a Lexus event in San mateo ca and it was a nice ride. Acura should offer hybrid like Lexus does.

mapleloaf

The ILX Hybrid is gone for 2016, but its not inconceivable that Acura would consider a performance hybrid version of the TLX, especially once gas starts going up steadily again. Perhaps 2017?

wowzer

I liked the ride of the Lexus ES300h. I couldn't wait for Acura to come out with a hybrid...so I defected to lexus (for now).

BC01191980

Es300h is a nice car but the tech equivalent package would be like $45k. I bet a TLX hybrid would be $40k.

I am willing to pay $40k for my next car.

boe_d

Hard to say. Lexus only charges $2,000 extra for their hybrid package. The accord hybrid is more than $2,000 more. Or at least the last time I was looking at prices.

BC01191980

I was referring to getting a tech package in the es300h

Things like backup camera, lane watch

boe_d

I think I follow what you are saying. I'm saying Acura could decide to charge $7,000 more for an equivalent model Acura package. So say the base acura tech model lists for $40K, the base tech model with hybrid might go for $47K.

BC01191980

I agree with your assessment.

Add about $8-10k to an accord with leather so mid $40k seems about right.

Bladerunner68

I strongly considered the MKZ hybrid its a really neat High Tech car with all the cool new technology but it only got 40mpg with 180hp engine. Thanks to its Drive control electronic suspension which is standard it is by far and away the best handling and driving hybrid car Iv driven and the only hybrid I was considering. But in the end the Acura TLX gets me 35 miles per gallon on the highway with superior acceleration and performance with 290hp. Giving up 5mpg for 110hp was a no brainer for me. My TLX with Advance is amazing.

boe_d

Glad you got the car you wanted but if you lived in LA you'd probably average about 25MPG - we have stop and go highways and surface streets with stop lights ever 1/4 of a mile or less. Not that hybrids save you money as you pay more for the tech than you do the gas unless you get an ES300h in which case they do pay for themselves in a reasonable period of time BUT I did pass a gas station on the way to work where gas was $4.20 a gallon (near Olympic and Robertson).

BC01191980

Bay Area traffic is almost as bad as LA traffic. Fuel economy is a necessity. Traffic is unpredictable. I may settle for the 4 cylinder tech package. Maybe there will be good financing offers in December when my civic hybrid lease ends.

boe_d

Mercedes has announced it will have 10 hybrid plug in models by 2017. I know Lexus had a goal of a large percent of their fleet by some date 2018(?). Hopefully that will give Acura a little incentive to also offer a nice TLX hybrid in addition to their standard model. I just hope they go for a good combination of fuel efficiency and decent acceleration. They've fallen on this a number of times in the past including the hybrid accord of a decade ago, (not great MPG OR acceleration), ILX Hybrid (not great acceleration or MPG), RLX hybrid (not great MPG - not sure it even made it into production) but the current Accord seems to have it right.

weather

^^ Acura doesn't need Hybrid due to all the gas saving technology such as VCM and start/stop *sarcasm ended*