php007

No I did not check it before droping it off. As I asked earlier who else has Acura Care? I have the 8yr 120K miles on my car and was wondering if that was the reason they changed out the short block. Heck they also changed the timing belt, plugs, and tensioner at the same time under warranty.

jim_c

If they just replaced the short block then they re-used all your accessories, heads, intake, manifolds, etc. The short block is basically just the block, the crank, the pistons, the oil pan and maybe a few pulleys. It's great that they did the belts etc. for you, but they had to work on all that stuff to reassemble your original parts with the new block. I hope you get a better performer this time. Btw, did they advise you about a break in period for the new rings etc.? You can't go ripping around and redlining your new engine for a while...... I assume you know that?

php007

No advise but I know better. I know they used the same heads and intake, manifolds, etc but I just wanted to stop burning oil. Hope this works since I only have 3 more years left on my AcuraCare.

skyline8610

i have 46,964 miles on my 2010 awd a/t . changed the oil in june when it had 44,539 with mobil 1 extended per. yesterday the mid says oil level low checked the dipstick and it was dry. the engine took 2 quarts. so disappointing

JTL12

i just changed my oil and it says its at 80%. it was at 80 before i changed it so im not sure if this is normal or not... anyone?

Camaro194

Why did you change the oil when it was only at 80%?
Did you reset it after changing it (did it go back to 100%)?

jim_c

So, just to clarify, the MID will indicate when there is a low oil level ??
Is that true?

The 70% or whatever percent indication refers to the quality of the oil.
Does the MID also indicate a seriously low quantity?
Or does the red warning light inform when the oil level is low?


JTL12, did you reset the oil quality percent as instructed in the owner's manual?

JTL12

no i did not... gonna try and figure that out now since i never got the manual when i bought it.

edit: just found out. if anyone is interested

Camaro194

^ that was your problem then. The MID will tell you the estimated life of the oil based on a variety of factors. You need to reset it after changing the oil. It will not tell you if oil is low. Check the dipstick every 1000 miles or so. I believe that an indicator light will come on for low oil, but I wouldn't wait that long if its getting low.

jim_c

Yes, Camaro194, that's what I thought, but there seems to be some folks who think the MID will tell them when they are low on oil volume. Pretty sure that as you said, you need to check with the dipstick periodically. And if the red warning light is on you are way late and need to add oil asap.
JTL12, if you don't have an owner's manual, you probably should get one. If you bought the car from an Acura dealer they should have provided one, including on a used car.

DefMunkie

MID will not indicate low oil level. The low oil level light on the dash will come on instead.

Ontario_Rauf

I bought a 2010 TL SH-AWD (Quebec car) about a month ago from a used dealer in TO. I had to get an oil change done about 2500 kms ago and my mechanic suggested that I use a full synthetic by 5W-40 (not the recommended 5W-20).

After 2500 kms, I noticed the oil is very low.
Any updates with any recalls or potential coverage from Acura/Honda?
Is the problem usually an involved engine rebuild?

Thanks for the help!

Ontario_Rauf

P.S. Mechanic said that instead of spending $60-70 for a full synthetic oil change if I have to change it every 4-5K kms, I might as well just go for the $20 conventional oil and change the oil every 4-5K kms

Think the dealer may assist? I don't have any extended warranties as the car is 2010 with 123, 000 kms

jim_c

There is a lot of discussion on this forum on oil consumption, particularly relating to AWD cars. You will not get a simple answer to your question.
Or if you do, it will be wrong.

horst tsx 04

Good I'm not the only one having a concern over oil consumption. I have a 09 awd tl with 88k bought it with 39k . i'm consuming 2 and a quarter quarts over 5k oil change. I was just told this was normal consumption as I did the oil consumption test. So i'm thinking about just changing my own oil for now on and getting better oil. Is 2 quarts normal. I live in stl, mo so its not like i'm in extreme temps. I had a 04 tsx that started to burn oil like a quart then boom goes the engine at 160k.

Busboy

I'm topping off my 09' TL AWD Tech 1L at 50% on the minder, then back to the dealer at 5% for an oil change. Minder is giving me around 13K-14K between changes this time of year. Has anyone tried a product like Restore? Think it would help?

gregapaul

I'm having the same issue with my 2011 6sp TL-SH-AWD, oil consumption. I've been battling the with the dealer back on forth from when my can has 65k miles and now I'm at 73k. They keep telling me nothing is wrong, but I keep bringing it back. Now they're performing another consumption test so they can build a case to for Acura to possible change the block. There was many times whereas I check the dip stick and no oil. I'm more concern that my engine my get damage, now on cold start, the engine get very loud for about a minute then it goes away. Seems the car is starving for oil. It's a little low on the dipstick, I can't add any oil, because of the test.

docboy

Any updates? I have the same issue with my 2010 TL 6MT. Same old story, battling with dealer who blows me off, Acura Care won't honor powertrain warranty, etc.

Now I suspect the oil consumption is getting worse...

BSG1

Can you clarify the sound you are hearing? I'm also burning oil (currently in the middle of the oil consumption test my dealer wants to perform) but have been hearing a rattling sound on cold starts that goes away after a minute also. Sounds somewhat like a diesel engine, it can be pretty loud or faint. As the engine warms and the RPMs drop, the sound goes away.

docboy

I have exact same issue for the past few years. Per dealership, "unable to duplicate" so nothing has been done.

BSG1

Hopefully my dealership doesn't give me that. I recorded a video on my phone that shows a pretty good description of the sound so I can show them. I was thinking it was the timing belt tensioner, but now I wonder if it has anything to do with the oil consumption.

BTW, sorry to hear of all the crap you are going through on your oil consumption issue. I think a lot of it has to do with the dealership. In my experience, the dealership has more leverage when going to bat with the manufacturer for you rather than you doing it directly. Assuming your dealership is decent enough to do that though.

mylove4cars

^^^^ Absolutely correct, the dealership can make it happen and it's free of cost for them; they are covered by Acura, the question remains, do they really want to help?

DrivingMissDaisy

This is the third TL we've owned and the 4th Acura overall. Never had a problem with excessive oil consumption on any of the cars until this one. At 70k miles and only 5000 miles since last oil change the engine had burned nearly ALL of it's oil even though the service minder showed life at 15%. Acura told us degradation of vehicle performance was normal if WE allowed it to get that low? WE? Excuse me?!

NOW HERE IS THE IMPORTANT PART: As others have already stated, there is an Acura service bulletin that says burning a quart ever 1000k miles is "normal" however.... what they DON'T TELL YOU IS THAT HONDA JUST SETTLED A CLASS ACTION LAWSUIT for v6 engines for this very reason with other make / model cars! You can read about it here:

http://www.autonews.com/article/2013...-burning-claim

I'm sure it will only be a matter of time until they acknowledge there is a widespread issue with more than just the 1.5 million Honda's already included in the suit. In the mean time, I recommend partnering closely with your local Acura service center to monitor and document the problem (mine was not aware of the lawsuit which was settled in 2013).

Ours has agreed to check and document the oil consumption every 1000k. I'm sure we'll need to pay to top it off if it still burns fast, but at least this will prevent further problems and most importantly PROTECT us, the consumer, in the event further problems do occur.

Make sure your service center documents everything! Customers in the suit were reimbursed for any losses suffered as a result of the issue. This includes parts replacement, etc, and Honda extended the warranty for affected vehicles so even if your warranty already expired you might be ok.

Hope this is helpful to some of you out there....we were just as bewildered as you (and now, frankly disappointed) with what we were hearing from Acura.

lji

The link in the post above is Honda settling with owners with Honda vehicles that had the VCM (Variable Cylinder Management) in it (V6 models only). Have a 2010 Honda Accord EX-L in the extended family that had it's spark plugs replaced at 7,000 miles or so... Ridiculous, and this Honda V6 engine consumes oil as well.... Maybe there needs to be a new lawsuit by Acura owners of the 3.7L engine to get Honda to accept the faulty design...

lji

How many miles on your TL now docboy?

csmeance

The 3.7L engines came with silicon liners for the cylinder walls and perhaps there is an issue with the longevity of the liner causing excessive oil consumption. I honestly would start using a heavier weight oil in the mean time like a 5W-30 oil and hope acura gets their stuff together. A class action lawsuit might be the right step since Acura is still not helping customers other than doing this "oil consumption test"

docboy

I need check to confirm, but ~54,000 miles now.

Little Gator

This article seemed to help explain a lot questions for me. It might help a few others here:


Engine Oil Consumption

Tonyware

^ thanks for the article.

I did notice that after my major service of timing belt and valve clearance adjustment the oil consumption has gone down by a lot. At 40% oil now after the timing belt/valve adjustment service and the dip stick is not crazy low, barely covering the tip, as before. Before, at 50% I had to add a quart, now I don't.

So, adjust your valves? Ok, we know the rings on these engines aren't the best quality, based on past posts here, but the valve clearances appear to be a contributing factor as well.

Little Gator

This oil consumption problem is wider spread than just our TLs.




https://autos.yahoo.com/news/consume...140000066.html

Little Gator

I just read a story from someone sharing about BMW's experience early on with plated cylinder bores. He stated that BMW cars with plated cylinder bores started using lot of oil because BMW learned the drivers were using either low quality fuel, or the lower octane fuel. Those fuels contain more sulfur in them. More than premium fuel. The sulfur reacted with the plating, causing the wear protection of the plating to be lost, in turn caused lots of oil consumption. That's the story. Does this relate to our cars?


Here is Acura's statement from my manual concerning type of fuel to use:


Your vehicle is designed to operate on premium unleaded gasoline with a pump octane of 91 or higher. If this octane grade is unavailable, regular unleaded gasoline with a pump octane of 87 or higher may be used
temporarily. The use of regular unleaded gasoline can cause metallic knocking noises in the engine and will result in decreased engine performance. The long-term use of regular-grade gasoline can lead to engine damage.

Edward'TLS

Well, I've been using nothing but 91 octane gas since day 1.

But my 3.7L-V6 still burns engine oil, and I can hear occasionally engine knocking once in a while during the first minute of moderate throttle acceleration when the engine is warm.

Little Gator

I have to ask, does anyone actually know what kind of gas, and its' quality that we put in our tanks?
Yes, we know the sign of the station is a big name oil corporation, and the pump says "premium", but I have never "taste" tested it before pumping it. How do I know the extremely greedy oil company didn't cut some corners at the refinery to save money with the thought that we would never know the difference? After all, I have never even seen the gas I pay for. I would not put it past the greedy oil companies who up until just recently were charging us $4.00 a gallon, and are now charging us less the $2.00 (for the time being) and still making profits, to try something like this.
I think that I am pumping 93 octane, tier 1, top-shelf gas, and certainly paying for it, but I may never know any different
..............until my car starts to behave poorly, like consuming lots of oil, or making knocking sounds. Only then do I start to have ACTUAL reason to question the quality.

mylove4cars

The BMW issue is from before 2004. Back then gasoline contained more sulfur (statements where made that Sulfur and Nikasil plating chemically reacted crystalizing the Nikasil plating). Nevertheless a lot of high-end sports-cars used Nikasil plating for years Porsche 911 series and the likes without problems.


I know that our 3.7 Acura engines have Nikasil plating as well. Nikasil can handle high temperatures. My opinion is that the piston rings used in the 3.7 Engine are not the best match for the Nikasil lining and because of this compatibility issue oil consumption occurs. In this case the piston rings worn faster than normal.


Nikasil cyclinders have a higher Rockwell hardness rating than cast iron and by design are oleophilic (Having a strong affinity for oil). Both of these factors contribute significantly to engine life and wear issues.


Analyzing the problem, replacing the short block might not resolve the problem if the same Nikasil lining is used or piston rings alloy is not matched.


Conclusion: Acura is dragging their feet for a long time, because this is hard to fix!!

joshluvsla

Class action lawsuit! Let's all get together 3.7 owners!


Have any of you noticed any reduction in oil consumption with a particular brand of oil and weight? If so please post with your findings.

gemz_acura

I experienced oil burning issues with my 10' TL SH-AWD. (3.7)
I encountered the issue around 50k.
The dealer had ran an oil consumption test, as required by Acura/Honda.
My TL would burn anywhere from 1qt/ 500 miles and if I was lucky, only 1 qt/ 1000 miles.
In my case, it was certainly on the extreme side.
My dealer had no issue with replacing the engine.
The entire short block was replaced, as well as the starter, timing belt, and tensioner.

I would definitely press your service adviser to replace the short block.
It is especially easy if you have a strong "bond" with your dealership.
I did all my service there, so they didn't mind making good on the repair.


My dealer believes the issue lies with defective or unseated piston rings.
Also, the nikasil lined cylinder walls may play a part in the issue.

For what it's worth, I have ceased using synthetic oil since Acura replaced my motor.
I have found no oil burning issue/loss since using standard Acura motor oil.
It may be coincidental, who knows! My two cents.

the_razor

I currently use Acura's 5w20 synthetic, if I were to switch to Acura 5w20 regular will there be any issue?

hornedfrog

I finally got enough miles on my car to check consumption. Looks like ~1qt/3k. Confirmed with the previous owner and he was adding 1qt in between 5k mile oil changes with 80% highway. Acura told him that that's normal.

I'm a 3k mile oil change guy and don't drive a whole lot so it doesn't really affect me too much... But it is something to pay attention to. A new engine would be great but I doubt I'll get it with this rate.

crxb

could be worse - ck out this review w/ a BMW M4:

2015 BMW M3 Long-Term Update 3 -Motor Trend


"Regarding the addition of oil, the service manager wrote: "Operating as designed[.] Checked for leaks, none found. Due to increased engine power, all Motorsport engines can consume up to 2.5 quarts of engine oil per 1,000 miles at any time." As fudge factors go, up to 2.5 quarts per 1,000 miles is as rich and chocolately as I've ever heard, even for high-performance M vehicles. That being said, we accumulated substantial mileage just after the oil change and haven't had to add any since."



2015 BMW M3 Review - Long-Term Update 3

JM2010 SH-AWD

^^ "2.5 quarts . . . due to increased engine power." No thanks. LOL.