Those that have dyno'd the SH-AWD system

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Old Jun 8, 2011 | 08:11 AM
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Those that have dyno'd the SH-AWD system

I have an appointment setup with a tuner on June 18th for some dyno time. This will be my first time on the dyno with the SH-AWD, and their first time experiencing the system as well. I've read all the accounts of dyno-ing this system and the bottom line is it isn't pretty.

On the one MDX exhaust thread I specifically recall something close to 20 pulls were required that were then averaged together to achieve accurate numbers.

The dyno is a Dynapack AWD dyno.. I'm not going there with the hopes or intent to pull of any crazy numbers; but rather try to get a feel for AF ratios as well as what this car is capable of in the long term. It should prove to be an interesting session...

If anyone has tips, or hints on SH-AWD system... or the dyno itself I'm all ears. I'll post video's and numbers after I'm done.
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Old Jun 8, 2011 | 10:15 AM
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Man can't wait to see this.What u all got done to it or is it stock?
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Old Jun 8, 2011 | 10:37 AM
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^^check his other thread with recent pics of his car...his 4G is gorgeous
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Old Jun 8, 2011 | 10:54 AM
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From what I understand, in order to accurately dyno with the SH-AWD system, you would have to disconnect the AWD driveshaft and make the car FWD. I may be wrong, please someone correct me if I am.

I've seen a couple videos of people doing this on an RDX in order to get accurate numbers.
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Old Jun 8, 2011 | 11:36 AM
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You don't have to drop the driveshaft... it's more of manipulating the computer into doing what you want it to do.

Here's the MDX thread for some reading material.
https://acurazine.com/forums/4g-tl-2009-2014-123/has-anyone-dynoed-awd-tl-yet-699881/

If I drop the driveshaft (which I could do) of course I'd get higher numbers.... but I'm after a AWHP number, and AF figures as I know there's a point at the top of third gear where I'm dumping fuel and running really rich.

As for MODs I've got some done, but again I'm more curious about establishing a good number first... I have my PCD on pre-order, and I'm still waiting on some sort of traction from Marcus on the ATLP exhaust.

After next Saturday I'll get a wideband installed and work from there.
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Old Jun 8, 2011 | 11:38 AM
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Originally Posted by speedytl
Man can't wait to see this.What u all got done to it or is it stock?
Here's a link to my build thread

https://acurazine.com/forums/4g-tl-photograph-gallery-296/jnc2000s-wdp-sh-awd-progression-thread-812573/

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Old Jun 8, 2011 | 02:25 PM
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Here's a nice excerpt from an old thread on the RL side:

“The point of a dyno test is to gauge (as closely as possible) the engine performance. It's not much of a predictor of street performance except in relative terms. The losses from the AWD system, particularly one like the SH-AWD system are going to vary constantly, as the torque is shifted in and out of the rear differential. So having the data from a full throttle, straight ahead run on a dynojet isn't going to really tell you anything about how the AWD system adds or detracts from the performance, because spinning a pair of 4000lb drums doesn't really replicate road conditions. On top of that, even if we had an AWD dynojet to test it on, the numbers we'd get would likely be nonrepresentative of street numbers unless we had access to the latest AWD dynojet. Most AWD dynos (including the dynapack) have the front and rear axles decoupled, so the RDX would see something like an "infinite slip" situation. On the street in normal (non slip) conditions, the rear wheels will always turn the same speed as the front wheels because they're coupled together by terra firma. But when you put them on two sets of independent rollers (or hub adapters, as on the dynapack) the front wheels will hardly ever be rotating at the same rate as the rear wheels unless the electromagnetic clutches are fully locked. On the road, even at full throttle the f/r bias in a straight line is only around 90/10% on the RDX - this provides a nice balance between max grip and minimized losses through the AWD. On a typical AWD dyno the brains of the AWD system will see that the front wheels are always "slipping" relative to the rear wheels, and the SH-AWD could potentially bias as much as 70% of the torque rearward, which would result in additional (and unrealistic) losses.
https://acurazine.com/forums/2g-rl-2005-2012-76/my-rl-dynoed-numbers-pix-movies-499226/

We'll should also be able to independently set the load per axle - So in the event of an infinite slip situation where the SH-AWD system would be torque vectoring we'll be able to anticipate that... I'll have to do some more digging but from all my readings I'm anticipating somewhere in the neighborhood of 30% drive train loss.
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Old Jun 8, 2011 | 07:35 PM
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^ Sounds complicated, but I'm looking forward to seeing your results
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Old Jun 9, 2011 | 09:50 AM
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I was the TL in the MDX thread that got the AWD dyno. It was a major pain. You will need a lot of patience and do a lot of pulls to get some clean runs. Good luck.
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Old Jun 9, 2011 | 10:01 AM
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What were your results?
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Old Jun 9, 2011 | 11:01 AM
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Read the link to the MDX thread I referenced above...
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Old Jun 9, 2011 | 11:33 AM
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Originally Posted by jnc2000
I forgot it was you hope u can get some good #.I got a 09 sh and with just a intake, j-pipe,test-pipe my is runinng rich at wot 10.0-10.8 afr. maybe with the pcd. it will lean it out a little
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Old Jun 9, 2011 | 11:27 PM
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Didn't know they had a tune for the awd! And if its tuneable, can they take the governor off?
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Old Jun 10, 2011 | 05:04 AM
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AEM FIC is out there - as that's what CT-E will be using with their blower. I have a sneaking suspicion Rodney is working with the megasquirt (same ECU replacement on the 3G) for the 4G...
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Old Jun 11, 2011 | 05:37 PM
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the thought has crossed my mind, but i remember all the heartaches people had trying to do it on the 2G RL & MDX

Good luck... cant wait to see the results...
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Old Jun 11, 2011 | 05:37 PM
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Originally Posted by CleanCL
I was the TL in the MDX thread that got the AWD dyno. It was a major pain. You will need a lot of patience and do a lot of pulls to get some clean runs. Good luck.
Whats going on man?!? Long time-- enjoying the 4G?
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Old Jun 17, 2011 | 08:32 PM
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No dyno for me tomorrow... TL is at the dealer due to a prop shaft main bearing issue. They've ordered the shaft and we'll see where things go from here...
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Old Jun 18, 2011 | 12:48 PM
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^ how did you know you had a problem?
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Old Jun 20, 2011 | 06:42 AM
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A very noticeable whine from about 45mph on up -- would come and go... the more stress you'd put on the AWD system the louder the wine would get. It would then start at 35mph.

To isolate the master tech from the dealer had me do a WOT drive between two buildings and you could hear the click from drive shaft (prop shaft) and then hear it wind up... as it transferred the TQ aft it would make a very distinct wine... then upon throttle dis-engagement as you'd hear a different noise.
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Old Jun 20, 2011 | 10:23 AM
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Originally Posted by jnc2000
A very noticeable whine from about 45mph on up -- would come and go... the more stress you'd put on the AWD system the louder the wine would get. It would then start at 35mph.

To isolate the master tech from the dealer had me do a WOT drive between two buildings and you could hear the click from drive shaft (prop shaft) and then hear it wind up... as it transferred the TQ aft it would make a very distinct wine... then upon throttle dis-engagement as you'd hear a different noise.
I had my driveshaft replaced, it took over 5 visits to two different dealerships. Finally I showed them a post made here in the 4G forums by an Acura tech claiming an issue with the driveshaft. It is more prominent in the MDX, but nonetheless exists on the 4G TL too. I see this issue pop up occasionally on the forums. I wonder how long before they place a TSB.
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Old Jun 20, 2011 | 10:26 AM
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My dealer indicated it's more prominent in the 2G RL's and MDX's as well.. but the 4G SH-AWD TL's are starting to come in with the same issue...

Just another reason for me to push forward with my carbon fiber driveshaft project
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Old Jun 21, 2011 | 09:42 AM
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Got my car back... and she's perfect! -- its back on again...
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Old Jun 21, 2011 | 05:34 PM
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Originally Posted by jnc2000
My dealer indicated it's more prominent in the 2G RL's and MDX's as well.. but the 4G SH-AWD TL's are starting to come in with the same issue...

Just another reason for me to push forward with my carbon fiber driveshaft project
Did the dealer mention how widespread was the driveshaft problem ? Is it gonna be surface as a design fault or just as a few isolated cases ?
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Old Jun 22, 2011 | 01:13 PM
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How much did it cost you to fix? Or is it under warranty?
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Old Jun 22, 2011 | 09:31 PM
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My dealership (Park Acura) didn't mention how widespread the issue is.. just that they've seen on other SH-AWD equipped vehicles. What's interesting is the RL uses a carbon fiber driveshaft from the factor - while the MDX and ours is steel. But they all have had the similar issue - bearing failure. Makes me wonder if something else is going on here....

For me, as I only have 20K miles on my TL it was covered under warranty...
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Old Jul 2, 2011 | 10:35 PM
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Crap, bearing failure in these, too? Had an 06 RL that needed that drive shaft replaced as they couldn't just remove/replace the center support bearing (whole shaft and labor was about $3g). Good thing it was under warranty, but I was hoping I wouldn't have that problem with the TL. Hope it's not going to become a common problem....
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Old Jul 9, 2011 | 04:30 PM
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hey jnc, did you get a chance to dyno your car? If so, what were your results and what kind of dyno did you use?

I just got mine dyno'd, check the ATLP 4G SH-AWD thread. https://acurazine.com/forums/showthr...=800979&page=6

I'm curious what the varying results is and maybe get some type of average

-DeL
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Old Jul 9, 2011 | 06:45 PM
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Insane numbers fallen!
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Old Jul 9, 2011 | 08:22 PM
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Originally Posted by maddogtheta
Insane numbers fallen!
I know right?!

I expected a lot more on power train loss due to it being an AWD...so its possible that Honda underrated the HP on this motor

-DeL
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Old Jul 9, 2011 | 11:39 PM
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Originally Posted by jnc2000
My dealership (Park Acura) didn't mention how widespread the issue is.. just that they've seen on other SH-AWD equipped vehicles. What's interesting is the RL uses a carbon fiber driveshaft from the factor - while the MDX and ours is steel. But they all have had the similar issue - bearing failure. Makes me wonder if something else is going on here....

For me, as I only have 20K miles on my TL it was covered under warranty...
The same thing happened to my car as well had it replace under warranty. It has happened to a few TL's from my dealer which is Ramsey Acura.
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Old Jul 11, 2011 | 09:27 AM
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I'm going July 18th
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Old Jul 14, 2011 | 12:04 AM
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Originally Posted by jnc2000
I'm going July 18th
Good luck!! Im dying to see the results!
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Old Jul 15, 2011 | 10:45 AM
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Originally Posted by 6SpdTerror
Good luck!! Im dying to see the results!
me to
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Old Oct 8, 2011 | 09:55 PM
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Originally Posted by jnc2000
I have an appointment setup with a tuner on June 18th for some dyno time. This will be my first time on the dyno with the SH-AWD, and their first time experiencing the system as well. I've read all the accounts of dyno-ing this system and the bottom line is it isn't pretty.

On the one MDX exhaust thread I specifically recall something close to 20 pulls were required that were then averaged together to achieve accurate numbers.

The dyno is a Dynapack AWD dyno.. I'm not going there with the hopes or intent to pull of any crazy numbers; but rather try to get a feel for AF ratios as well as what this car is capable of in the long term. It should prove to be an interesting session...

If anyone has tips, or hints on SH-AWD system... or the dyno itself I'm all ears. I'll post video's and numbers after I'm done.
Have you done the dyno on your car as yet. If so what are the numbers and the specs. Thank you.
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