In straight line acceleration A4 would still had beat TL. So they have one quantitive figure already in there favor to make Audi winner. The rest are just subjective. They didnot consider bang of the buck factor for TL as important
. And i agree with that. At $50k price. bang of the buck is less important than desirability of a product. so at the the end TL has to compete with mid 30K crowd like Lexus ES, Nissan Maxima, Infiniti G37, BMW 328.

 

The A4 is a real beauty no question about that. For me, though, the only version worth having is the upcoming S4, where its performance actually backs up the looks. For an est. price of $60K+, however, a M3 looks to be the better choice...and a far better performer.

 

this is a very good article that i had read comparing the Sh-Awd TL with the Audi A4 3.2..

Deliberations ran hot. One editor lauded the TL’s bold road presence over Audi’s blend-into-traffic shape. The other preferred the A4’s stately lines over the TL’s left-field goings-on. Fists were thrown and Facebook hate-groups formed. In the end we agreed to disagree, calling it a tentative draw. Bah..


^ that was alil tid bit of what they said on styling..


With our testers configured to varying levels, deciding which one better suited the sporting driver was a no-brainer. The TL with its Super-Handling All-Wheel Drive system rocks the A4’s Quattro in the corners and offers more grip on curvy on-ramps; at times it even performs with rear-wheel-drive-like balance, something we can’t say for the nose-heavy Audi. Where the A4 starts to drift wide mid-corner, the TL digs for more traction and continues to grip.

^ Performance the TL won..


and all around winner.

The A4’s interior may have offered less room, especially in the backseat, but the Audi had 16.9 cubic feet of trunk space, compared to the TL’s 12.5 cubic feet. The Audi also has a 60/40-split folding rear seat instead of the TL’s smaller rear pass-thru, giving the A4 more cargo versatility. In the end, though, Acura’s combination of handling prowess and value for the money outpaced the A4’s strengths. The TL wins this one.



heres the article u guys should read it i think its a very good comparision of the audi and TL..

heres part 1



2009 Acura TL vs. 2009 Audi A4: Part 1 - KickingTires


2009 Acura TL vs. 2009 Audi A4: Part 2 - KickingTires

 

another article i think u guys might enjoy reading..

2009 Acura TL SH-AWD Test Drive - Technological Upgrades - Honda Tuning Magazine

 

I am not to sure how to respond to this post.

The first paragraph basically accuses a very credible, independant car publication of publishing lies and basically taking bribes then the last half of paragraph talks about a Honda backed test on a Honda testing ground using a pre-production car (4G 6MT) vs some other cars that where upto two years older as a credible test (Probable because the 4G won).....maybe its just me but this seems a little contradictory to me.

Since that Honda backed test was brought up we should remember that Jeff over at TOV (Temple of Vtec) was actually at that test and preffered the G Series over the 4G. Soooo by your logic Nissan must be advertising a lot over at TOV for a Honda fanatic like himself to have such a bias opinion to say such a thing.

I notice that whenever the 4G performance numbers never look good everyone brings up the brake torque issue although there is never any proof that these mags over brake torqued the car. (Jeff at TOV found that light brake torquing the 4G causes no issues).

We should then look at the facts and when you look at the transmissions for the A4 vs the 4G you can see that the A4 has very aggressive gear ratios compared to the 4G and this IMHO seems more logical as to why the lesser powered A4 can outperform the 4G.

To get back on topic with the OP. I believe that Acura is trying to move the 4G up in the line but still has a long way to go and in the mean time the competition like the 5 series etc are about to get bigger and better next year again pulling away from the 4G.
As long as the 4G keeps losing these comparos to cars in its category and to some even in a lesser category the public is not going to consider the car to be better than it is because it keeps getting proven its not better. (I believe the 4G still hasnt even won a comparo from a credible major car publication yet this year)

 

Not becuase it won becuase it was an open door test invite with many publishers present, not an independent test by any means.

Jeff owns a G sedan in his regular life, are you aware of that?

He also got some of the best test results to date, so ya, no issue. There is also no proof it isn't.

Very apparent, but what happens at higher speeds, the A4 looses it's advantage, also why the TL acheives similar gas mileage with such a bigger engine.

The whole Acura brand is transitioning, so if by next generation, they are not up to stuff by your standards than don't buy one, they are made more affordable so you have to expect some of that to a degree, and the brand new E350 is not something I would brag about owning for some $60k+, but anytime you want to borrow my 6MT in the fall, just let me now.

 

You are completely taking it out of context, you should work for the rags. I said it outlaped an S4, implying that it is beyond what the current A4 is capable of doing, with or without the S package, I didn't mention who won or what other cars were present. Did you not read my other post?, it's not a bribe, it's business, not fair business but good business if you ask me and it's something most would do if in that situation. Dude this is America, the most f'd up capitalist country in the world, does that surprise you?, it shouldn't? Contridictory?, you are a walking contradiction, this is an Acura forum.

 

SSFTSX, I bought up the FWD model, but I didn't just compare its acceleration numbers to the A4. I also compared the handling and braking, in which the TL FWD is about the same (skidpad), if not better (braking). And the FWD is supposed to be the "cruiser" model that emphasizes on comfort, unlike the SH-AWD model that pays more attention to being sporty.

I'd like to know what would happen above 100mph.

Not necessarily, but very likely that with larger wheels, it will be slower by a few tenths. Whether you believe it or not, but wavehogger has tried this with his TL to prove that smaller rims do make the TL faster in a straight line. So sure, I will let you have this one - the A4 won't be slower with bigger/heavier rims, but the TL will be faster with lighter/smaller rims.

"TL is so large that without 19inch it does not even look good. It should lose alone by its looks and oversize body." I thought the 18" rims look great while the 19" rims make the car looks stunning. Styling is too subjective.

"fuel economy is average figure. I am sure they are not driving it at sub 20mph city traffic or above 80 mph through out the test. In 60mph range most cars will give pretty close fuel economy."

Well, the G35/G37 constantly gets 17-19mpg in the real world. Whether that's close to 21mpg is up to you. But one think i know is, 2mpg difference (TL vs G37) is 10 times the difference of 0.2mpg (TL vs A4).

 

No kidding. I guess they were trying too hard to match the prices of these cars...

 

Once again, when equipped with the 18" rims, the TL is faster, as proven by Wavehogger, whether you think the data is legit or not is another matter. Besides, I don't think handling or braking numbers are subjective. The TL had the A4 beat in those areas by a huge margin. And if bang for the buck isn't important, then why not bring in the S-line package?

 

Oh, Iforyou, so you are saying that if you equip an Audi, MB, or BMW, to the same dollar level as the TL SH-AWD, it might not be so capable???

But how is this possible??

 

On second thought, I am kind of starting to think that the TL was definately improperly launched, aside from just the bigger 19in rims, becuase despite the A4's 6spd gearbox advantage, Im not so sure the way they are geared is actually better suited for the acceleration tests over the TL's becuase the TL still managed a better passing pull, obviously a poor launch will scew all the #'s in the test.

 

I have been reading your posts in this thread and basically your saying that Audi won this comparo based primarily on advertising funds provided to MT. While i agree politics are in everyline of work the facts still have to mean something......i respect your opinion but i hope you realize that IF the 4G ever does win a comparo this year that by your logic it will have won because Honda/Acura provided more funds to that publication and not because it was a better car.

 

BS is called on all publications on every forum by lots of people, even here and not just by me, so get off my nuts. If you agree about the politics than why do believe they are actually facts?, example, Edmunds ran the A4 0-60 at 6.9 sec, is that the standard of acceleration we are to follow for the A4? #'s are not facts. Why are you then also ignoring all the other facts presented to you? By my logic I don't need a comparo to tell me anything about the 4G, and neither does Acura, it is becuase of my logic that I know the TL is faster, why it is a better car, and more importantly exactly why I am not buying an A4. I don't need it to win anything. I don't give much credit to any publication for any car just for the fact of the amount of normal variables that apply. Yeah, they can make for a good basis but nothing substantial, you need to do your own homework and check out real world comparisons to make an educated decision, no $5 dollar magazine is going to tell me what to drive. Just for the record, I definately call more BS on the car I intend to buy becuase I want to have the facts straight and not have anyone sugarcoat anything for me, that would be a real disappointment after, don't you think?

 

Win...if you don't care, then why spend time to argue about such things? My guess is that you DO care about what these rag mags are saying and are pissed like a little baby after she dropped her lollipop on the ground. I think that you have shown just how superficial of a person you are to everyone on this forum. Good job on that BTW.

 

This is what winstrolvtec said to another member (a long time Acura owner nonetheless!) on this forum:

Not sure about you guys, but this sure sounds like a superficial snob to me! Of course, the person who said the above quote is making monthly payments as we speak to a bank that owns his car. So, he technically does not even own a TL!

 

I usually don't get involved in silly pissing match threads, but this post kills me...are you serious?

FWD is great for mini-vans and Chevy Malibus. Not for an aspiring sport luxury sedan.

 

^^^

you have been brain washed into thinking that, but then again you are 41 yrs old, drive a manual transmission, lowered car, with stiff suspension...where's the luxury in that?
I stand by what I said, Acura should stay away from RWD...

 

Weighs more? Doesn't the SH-AWD weigh like a ton of shit?! (pardon my french) And guess why Acura came out with SHAWD? Hint: to get close to RWD driving dynamics while still able to use the Accord platform!

 

Tig, real grown up. People like me, Iforyou, and Wavehogger, and plenty others (too long a list), come here and speak specific, technical, and enlightening information about this car for generally our own sake, we would pick apart the comparo if you where here or not, and at times we even have debates on where things stand ourselves, but that what makes this a good board. Then you have straggling punks who wander in and say shit like they know what they are talking about. Normal discussion takes place, and the name calling begins, but we all know who it that is doing the immature baby acts, and who those are that are trying to present the other side of the information. Most would agree that the defensive name calling is just a reaction to one's lack of informative knowledge.

 

Uhh, weren't you the one who called someone out by telling them that he cannot afford to buy a TL SHAWD.........when you are still paying the bank loan for YOUR 3G TL?! Growing up also means managing your money appropriately.

 

RWD dynamics on an AWD, all weather platform, genius. The TLS has shown to be a serious handling competitor and can handle with the best of them, it happens to be FWD. No it is not as fluid, neutral, dynamic, or balanced but that is not as important as the amount of grip produced.

 

Tig, LOL, you see my piont? you were there, you know he called me out first, and let's actually see who is going to get one, including you, who cares how it is acquired?

 

lol...I'll get you directions to the Chevy Malibu forum.

 

uhhh, you don't have much experience at the track, do you? Dude, by you saying the above, it is pretty obvious that you only do comparison based on what the brochure says and not on actual driving!

Case close. Thanks for the discussion, but you have no clue! You can have the last word in this thread because it is pretty clear to everyone (who has driven a sports car) that you don't know jack!

 

https://acurazine.com/forums/3g-tl-2004-2008-93/tls-vs-s2k-1-8l-jetta-725182/
Read through this thread, do yourself a favor. You obviously are letting your personal agenda get in the way of reason, give it a rest.

 

If AWD were the cure all to end all BMW, Mercedes & Porsche would only make AWD. Before my E I had a 06 RL it is neat, but being in the south I do not need all season traction, or for the drivtrain to leach 25% of my powere or reduced mpg. My V8 rwd gets better mileage than the RL did. FWD is not the answer in this class of car. Acura will never be an out and out success in the upper ranges of luxury sales not offering a rwd floorplan. Just look at RL sales to see how they stack up to the RWD competition.
I am not talking about out and out handling, but baisic vehical dynamics and costs, no one in this class car wants the steering wheel wrenching ou of their hands when you foor 300hp/ 280lb/ft. If I were in the snow belt I would want AWD, but in the south there is no need to pay all the penalties that come with it(price, weight, mpg, power loss)

 

And what if you wanted something as similarly capable as an awd as far as snow, and also didn't want the power and mpg reduction of awd, but also wanted it to be quite capable as a performance sedan?

I wonder is such a car exists?

 

The TL-S is the pinnacle of FWD performance, but it is approaching its very limit. More and more power will mean that Acura will have to tune the ECU to cut back in the lower gears to avoid torque steer in and out of the corners.

There isn't any amount of chassis and suspension tuning that can defy physics. The front tires can only be asked to do so much. This is probably a big part of why Acura went with SH-AWD for the new TL and the larger 3.7 V6. 300hp/lb ft. is approaching the reasonable limit where you can no longer effectively use all of the power to propel yourself out of corner exit, and beginning to cross over to the point where the centripetal force begins to overcome the cornering grip that the tires have.

I'll admit the TL does a great job performance wise despite being down on so many factors on paper. It outperforms its competitors in several aspects despite the inherent downfalls of FWD. But I still prefer the dynamics of RWD.... even if its more challenging to find the absolute limit between steering with the throttle and oversteer, I ultimately find it more enjoyable. If the S2000 had a nearly exact-same clone of it but the clone was FWD, I still would most likely prefer the RWD form.

Holy loaded question! Yes, its called FWD

I'd assume Lexus drivers for the most part assume a sedate drive, and even then a majority of their lineup is RWD aside from one model. Besides, plenty of people drive in snow with RWD and are just fine. The tires make a bigger difference than the drivetrain layout in snow.

 

+1

 

Cp, you're a tool. +1

 

Great find!

 

^Smartest post in this thread....well said!