Official Pricing is Available
09-17-2008, 10:58 PM
#81
But not all cars in this segment have that feature standard, ie the BMW. I find it interesting that, even with all the standard features on the TL, there are people who complain the TL still doesn't come with enough gadgets (ie the intelligent key), but on the other hand there are people who complain there are too many standard features.
What should Acura do? Include more standard features or not?
What should Acura do? Include more standard features or not?
It's not the number of standard features, or any one in particular really.
It has more to do with how hot that particular feature is, that your competitors offer as standard equipment.
09-18-2008, 01:46 AM
#82
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Yes, but the $10K delta was for the standard TL vs. Accord, not the AWD version. It's almost $14K going from the loaded Navi Accord to the Tech AWD TL.
I think we all get the point though, and that is, Acura is "near luxury" and Lexus is "luxury". Perhaps Acrura can change their "discount Luxury" over time, but its going to take more than slapping on a higher price tag.
Presonally, I now think lot less of Acura build quality (after my '06 TL) than I did after my '02 TL-S. I feel its going the wrong way.
If they want Lexus caliber price premiumsl, the new TL better be a BIG improvement over G3 - i.e. not even the same car.
I think we all get the point though, and that is, Acura is "near luxury" and Lexus is "luxury". Perhaps Acrura can change their "discount Luxury" over time, but its going to take more than slapping on a higher price tag.
Presonally, I now think lot less of Acura build quality (after my '06 TL) than I did after my '02 TL-S. I feel its going the wrong way.
If they want Lexus caliber price premiumsl, the new TL better be a BIG improvement over G3 - i.e. not even the same car.
09-18-2008, 01:56 AM
#83
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No, but the main competitors are likely its Japanese counterparts, G35 and IS, which are closer in price than a 335.
It's not the number of standard features, or any one in particular really.
It has more to do with how hot that particular feature is, that your competitors offer as standard equipment.
It's not the number of standard features, or any one in particular really.
It has more to do with how hot that particular feature is, that your competitors offer as standard equipment.
Then again, IMO it really depends on each person, some like to have more standard features, some want to customize their cars. Neither is wrong as we can see most of these cars sell very well.
09-18-2008, 01:57 AM
#84
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I currently own a 335xi and here is my take.
The 335 is more fun to drive then the current 3G TL.
The 3 is MUCH smaller of a car than the either 3G or 4G TL. This is very much a reason it is more fun to drive. A 5 is not as sporty as the 3, and is more comparable in most ways to the TL.
The 3 costs significantly more with similar features. The 5 costs a ton more.
The 3 is more refined on the interior. It just looks nicer. For me, this seperates BMW/Benz from Lexus/Acura/Infiniti. The Japanese companies always have components that seem stolen from their cheaper relatives.
The 3 is not, in my mind, any where near as reliable as an Acura.
And it is this last reason that will have me trading in my 3 for a TL SH-AWD later this year. Yes, BMW has this 4/50 maintenance and thank heavens, cause I have had to do $10,000 in warranty repairs on a two year old car, including fully replacing the transmission and the i-Drive system.
It is this reason, quality, that will bring me to Honda/Acura and this reason that I believe their cars will continue to sell very, very well.
The 335 is more fun to drive then the current 3G TL.
The 3 is MUCH smaller of a car than the either 3G or 4G TL. This is very much a reason it is more fun to drive. A 5 is not as sporty as the 3, and is more comparable in most ways to the TL.
The 3 costs significantly more with similar features. The 5 costs a ton more.
The 3 is more refined on the interior. It just looks nicer. For me, this seperates BMW/Benz from Lexus/Acura/Infiniti. The Japanese companies always have components that seem stolen from their cheaper relatives.
The 3 is not, in my mind, any where near as reliable as an Acura.
And it is this last reason that will have me trading in my 3 for a TL SH-AWD later this year. Yes, BMW has this 4/50 maintenance and thank heavens, cause I have had to do $10,000 in warranty repairs on a two year old car, including fully replacing the transmission and the i-Drive system.
It is this reason, quality, that will bring me to Honda/Acura and this reason that I believe their cars will continue to sell very, very well.
One of the most intelligent posts I've seen so far in this thread.
09-18-2008, 01:58 AM
#85
Suzuka Master
Thread Starter
For example, I've had push button start for the last 8 years on our S2000, frankly, I could care less about this. (before you write, I know the TL setup is keyless access and better) The point is, that its not something that would become a 'buying decision' for me. HID lighting is a make or break item for me.
So the mfg has to choose how they will do things. Throw everything in as Acura usually does? Break it into packages? Go line by line with options like the Europeans do? Obviously no single solution will make everybody happy.
09-18-2008, 09:43 AM
#86
2019 RDX Tech SH-AWD
I was quoting from the Car and Driver review that 70% of buyers would
choose the Tech Package over the NON Tech pack when buying. From
your figures from the Ride and Drive below shows that officially Acura
expects 65% to buy a Tech Package and 35% would not. So not much of
a "HUH?" moment. I actually think 60-65% is about right IMO, and the
70% seemed high.
choose the Tech Package over the NON Tech pack when buying. From
your figures from the Ride and Drive below shows that officially Acura
expects 65% to buy a Tech Package and 35% would not. So not much of
a "HUH?" moment. I actually think 60-65% is about right IMO, and the
70% seemed high.
Huh? The breakout provided at the ride and drive was as follows:
TL = 30%
TL Tech = 50%
TL SH-AWD = 5%
TL SH-AWD Tech = 13%
TL SH-AWD Tech w/ HPT = 3%
If I remember correctly, a 1G 3.2 TL was about 36K in 1998, 2G TL was about 29K in 2003. When 3G came out in the fall of 2003 it was around 33K so it was easily $3-4,000 more than 2G at MSRP and more when you consider discounts on the outgoing car. Funny huh? The price difference from a base 2008 to a base 2008 (MSRP to MSRP) this time around is the smallest ever yet the whining it louder...
TL = 30%
TL Tech = 50%
TL SH-AWD = 5%
TL SH-AWD Tech = 13%
TL SH-AWD Tech w/ HPT = 3%
If I remember correctly, a 1G 3.2 TL was about 36K in 1998, 2G TL was about 29K in 2003. When 3G came out in the fall of 2003 it was around 33K so it was easily $3-4,000 more than 2G at MSRP and more when you consider discounts on the outgoing car. Funny huh? The price difference from a base 2008 to a base 2008 (MSRP to MSRP) this time around is the smallest ever yet the whining it louder...
09-18-2008, 11:31 AM
#87
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Why do you think there is a FWD Non-Tech version of the TL? Its because some people are trying to keep the price low. If everyone bought every option on the car, then there would only be one model of TL. My point is that the Accord is just another lower-end model of the TL, and its $8100 cheaper for the equivalent (not identical) TL.
09-18-2008, 12:41 PM
#88
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Actually the 18" rims is from Honda (the HFP rims) since the TL SH-AWD does come with 18" rims.
This is what you said before from post #44,
"Assuming the Tech is like a loaded Accord with NAV, this puts the TL now at a $10K delta over a nearly identical Accord. Good luck with that Acura."
IMO $8.1k difference is quite a bit smaller than $10k. Whatever the dealer does pricing-wise, I don't think Honda/Acura has little control over it. Then remember, Honda is selling what, 40k Accords per months? What about the TL? They are aiming for 6k I believe. Obviously the TL isn't here to compete with the Accord at all. Otherwise, why make the TL? Right now the 3G TL-S with navi is $38k. The 4G TL with tech is a few hundred dollars more expensive. Again, if the dealer decides to lower the price, that's there decision. The Camry loaded is $32k, the equivalent ES350 is $42k. That's a even bigger gap IMO. So for $4k more than the TL tech, you basically are only "buying" the prestige of Lexus.
Whether people are going to buy the TL or not, it's too early to decide. Why don't we wait for a few months so that we actual sales numbers to compare with?
This is what you said before from post #44,
"Assuming the Tech is like a loaded Accord with NAV, this puts the TL now at a $10K delta over a nearly identical Accord. Good luck with that Acura."
IMO $8.1k difference is quite a bit smaller than $10k. Whatever the dealer does pricing-wise, I don't think Honda/Acura has little control over it. Then remember, Honda is selling what, 40k Accords per months? What about the TL? They are aiming for 6k I believe. Obviously the TL isn't here to compete with the Accord at all. Otherwise, why make the TL? Right now the 3G TL-S with navi is $38k. The 4G TL with tech is a few hundred dollars more expensive. Again, if the dealer decides to lower the price, that's there decision. The Camry loaded is $32k, the equivalent ES350 is $42k. That's a even bigger gap IMO. So for $4k more than the TL tech, you basically are only "buying" the prestige of Lexus.
Whether people are going to buy the TL or not, it's too early to decide. Why don't we wait for a few months so that we actual sales numbers to compare with?
09-18-2008, 01:35 PM
#90
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If I remember correctly, a 1G 3.2 TL was about 36K in 1998, 2G TL was about 29K in 2003. When 3G came out in the fall of 2003 it was around 33K so it was easily $3-4,000 more than 2G at MSRP and more when you consider discounts on the outgoing car. Funny huh? The price difference from a base 2008 to a base 2008 (MSRP to MSRP) this time around is the smallest ever yet the whining it louder...
2003 - $28,980 + $2,150 for Nav + $500 Dest = $31,630
2004 - $32,650 + $2,000 for Nav + $545 Dest = $35,195 = +$3,565
2005 - $32,900 + $2,000 for Nav + $570 Dest = $35,470
2006 - $33,100 + $2,000 for Nav + $570 Dest = $35,670
2007 - $33,625 + $2,500 for Nav + $670 Dest = $36,795
2008 - $33,725 + $2,500 for Nav + $715 Dest = $36,940
2009 - $34,995 + $3,730 for Nav + $760 Dest = $39,445 = +$2,505
09-18-2008, 01:45 PM
#91
Suzuka Master
Thread Starter
^^^^^^^^^^^
Thanks, good work! Difference base for base is only about $1300, not bad at all.
Thanks, good work! Difference base for base is only about $1300, not bad at all.
09-18-2008, 01:59 PM
#92
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Yes. I admit the $10K was a guess. I know my folks got a 2008 V6 Navi Accord for about $29K. I was surprised that the sticker on the 2009 was was high as it is.
09-18-2008, 02:19 PM
#93
AZ Community Team
What many folks are debating here is the "spread" in the price range for a car. Looking at a current 2009 Accord, the price range from highest to lowest is $10K, or ~66% (least expensive model % of most expensive model price) up to 100% (most expensive model). In years past the range for Honda's and Acura's has not been that great but as they've grown the company, that's one of the best ways to increase profit margin.
Most folks think BMW make most of their gross and net profit on their cars on the 6 and 7 series, it's still the 3 series. By having a large range of packages and individual options it can promote more styles within a model (coupe, sedan, wagon, 4/6/8 cylinder,....).
I actually thought Acura would do this since they already did it on the MDX, the % price range from highest to lowest increased. I severely doubt if Acura will ever do line item options, but I do suspect that the option groups will increase slowly over time (ie Tech and Sport packages in the more recent TL, RL, TSX and MDX).
Honda/Acura operations in the US and Japan have long favored the packages form a manufacturing point of view (including purchasing). One area where Acura really changed offering different interior colors with different external colors.
Most folks think BMW make most of their gross and net profit on their cars on the 6 and 7 series, it's still the 3 series. By having a large range of packages and individual options it can promote more styles within a model (coupe, sedan, wagon, 4/6/8 cylinder,....).
I actually thought Acura would do this since they already did it on the MDX, the % price range from highest to lowest increased. I severely doubt if Acura will ever do line item options, but I do suspect that the option groups will increase slowly over time (ie Tech and Sport packages in the more recent TL, RL, TSX and MDX).
Honda/Acura operations in the US and Japan have long favored the packages form a manufacturing point of view (including purchasing). One area where Acura really changed offering different interior colors with different external colors.
09-18-2008, 04:56 PM
#94
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Yea, I think changes just take time. Afterall, they are not doing bad at all in terms of sales, it's declining recently, but overall it still sells more cars than say, Infiniti, with less models to choose from. IMO it would make sense to make major changes if the cars are not selling at all.
09-18-2008, 06:01 PM
#95
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Yea, I think changes just take time. Afterall, they are not doing bad at all in terms of sales, it's declining recently, but overall it still sells more cars than say, Infiniti, with less models to choose from. IMO it would make sense to make major changes if the cars are not selling at all.
I'm not a Honda / Acura history buff, but I don't recall the current year Accord ever being more advanced (in some ways) than the current year TL before 2008.
09-18-2008, 07:59 PM
#96
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I think it's also the same thing with the 7th gen Accord and 2nd gen TL. In 2003, when the 7g Accord came out, it also had more power than the 2g TL, more fuel efficient (21/30 vs 19/29mpg I believe), not sure about the navi though since I never had one in my 2G TL-S. In fact, it would take the 2G TL-S to keep up with the 7g AV6, similar to now, you need a 3G TL-S to keep up with the 8G AV6.
09-18-2008, 10:44 PM
#97
Senior Moderator
$43k is about right for a car on the larger side of "midsize", with AWD, big V6, and 19" wheels.
Hummmm.......I paid $42k for my 2G RL new. I wonder if that's where the idea for the pricing comes from--what the market will bear for a car like this..... This TL competes with the M35x, which sells in the same price range.
Totally kills sales of the MMC RL, though.
Just my $0.02.
Thanks for the info, Colin!
Hummmm.......I paid $42k for my 2G RL new. I wonder if that's where the idea for the pricing comes from--what the market will bear for a car like this..... This TL competes with the M35x, which sells in the same price range.
Totally kills sales of the MMC RL, though.
Just my $0.02.
Thanks for the info, Colin!
09-18-2008, 10:45 PM
#98
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Sadly, no, Manual Transmission (YET) is no longer offered for the TL, but there is triptronic/ Paddle shifters(not sure on what models though)
The only 09 that offers Manual is the TSX, and that is my next car for that reason.
Last edited by waterpolo820; 09-18-2008 at 10:49 PM.
09-18-2008, 10:48 PM
#99
Senior Moderator
Manual is supposedly coming soon, probably next year.
09-21-2008, 02:53 PM
#100
'04 TL w/Navi SSM
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Interesting turn of events.
I was one of the first few people to be riding the 04 TL in Montreal, got it with the Navi package and then later installed the A-spec kit. I was pleasantly happy with the '04 TL but decided to upgrade to a '08 335xi sedan. A decision im now even more happier with since i was debating to wait for the '09 TL's - thank god i didnt. This new design is horrendous.
- Its too big
- The front nose is now even uglier
- The amount of buttons on the dash is sickening, im a network admin so im pretty well off with gadgets but this is overload
- Simple amounts of chrome is fine, the use of chrome in the '09 TL's is NOT. Good god, more does not mean better
- What happened to the touch Navi? Why would they get rid of it?
- The nose... Ugh, again - its plain out ugly. No amount of dropping, modding, kits can make it look nice. It looks like a sail boat
- The complete flow of the car just doesnt sit properly with me, i mean the 3g had a nice fitting design, it just flowed well... This however looks too pointy, too edgy & too WTF?
- Apart from the tech, this car no longer looks like a Japanese car - it now screams "Im American, and one day i would like to be a lexus". I would think Americans would go for this look to look more 'luxury' - thats why American car manufacturers just dont get it.
Ugh... Sorry guys, Acura lost a winner and gained a god knows what.
I was one of the first few people to be riding the 04 TL in Montreal, got it with the Navi package and then later installed the A-spec kit. I was pleasantly happy with the '04 TL but decided to upgrade to a '08 335xi sedan. A decision im now even more happier with since i was debating to wait for the '09 TL's - thank god i didnt. This new design is horrendous.
- Its too big
- The front nose is now even uglier
- The amount of buttons on the dash is sickening, im a network admin so im pretty well off with gadgets but this is overload
- Simple amounts of chrome is fine, the use of chrome in the '09 TL's is NOT. Good god, more does not mean better
- What happened to the touch Navi? Why would they get rid of it?
- The nose... Ugh, again - its plain out ugly. No amount of dropping, modding, kits can make it look nice. It looks like a sail boat
- The complete flow of the car just doesnt sit properly with me, i mean the 3g had a nice fitting design, it just flowed well... This however looks too pointy, too edgy & too WTF?
- Apart from the tech, this car no longer looks like a Japanese car - it now screams "Im American, and one day i would like to be a lexus". I would think Americans would go for this look to look more 'luxury' - thats why American car manufacturers just dont get it.
Ugh... Sorry guys, Acura lost a winner and gained a god knows what.
09-22-2008, 02:51 PM
#101
Racer
09-22-2008, 03:12 PM
#102
Racer
The base TL is less than a 09' Maxima SV with Premium package
The TL Tech is $600 more than a Maxima SV Premium with Nav
The TL SHAWD is $1500 less than a 09' A4 3.2 Premium +
The TL SHAWD Tech is $3500 less than a 09' A4 3.2 Prestige
These are cars people will cross shop to the new TL.
09-22-2008, 03:57 PM
#104
Reading these posts are so funny...
year after year we heard about the complaints about now awd, no rwd, blah blah, we need SH-AWD and more power...
so you finally get the technology you want and you want it for cheap...for the ones saying you'd rather get this or that vehicle...thats cool, get those cars, just like some will get the TL...
by the sounds of it, people want a car that surpasses the likes of BMW, Lexus and MB for 20,000 cheaper...lets be real.
Another thing to, remember this is honda's lexuary line of vehicles...the fact of the matter is that Acura didnt build this car for a typical salary of a 25 year old like myself, and many others.
As mentioned above by one user, it is targeted to the 6 figure salary in the 40+ demographic.
You can sit here and say nobody will buy it but when it comes out, we'll see how it sells...the fact of the matter is the people saying this have no crediability to make such a statement, no insult, its just true...Honda didn't just decide to price it at what they did because they grabbed that number. I have worked on a project where we had to establish a pricing point, and many things are taken into account, many stats are looked at, focus groups, surveys, comparisons and so on...its not only "how much would I pay for a Acura TL"
I hope my post is not taken in an offensive manner...
also this attitude where u hear, "For that much I'd rather spend 4-5k more and get (fill in the blank", it paints the TL as this under-satisfying vehicle that needs to be priced exceptionally low to be attractive...and its FAR from that.
year after year we heard about the complaints about now awd, no rwd, blah blah, we need SH-AWD and more power...
so you finally get the technology you want and you want it for cheap...for the ones saying you'd rather get this or that vehicle...thats cool, get those cars, just like some will get the TL...
by the sounds of it, people want a car that surpasses the likes of BMW, Lexus and MB for 20,000 cheaper...lets be real.
Another thing to, remember this is honda's lexuary line of vehicles...the fact of the matter is that Acura didnt build this car for a typical salary of a 25 year old like myself, and many others.
As mentioned above by one user, it is targeted to the 6 figure salary in the 40+ demographic.
You can sit here and say nobody will buy it but when it comes out, we'll see how it sells...the fact of the matter is the people saying this have no crediability to make such a statement, no insult, its just true...Honda didn't just decide to price it at what they did because they grabbed that number. I have worked on a project where we had to establish a pricing point, and many things are taken into account, many stats are looked at, focus groups, surveys, comparisons and so on...its not only "how much would I pay for a Acura TL"
I hope my post is not taken in an offensive manner...
also this attitude where u hear, "For that much I'd rather spend 4-5k more and get (fill in the blank", it paints the TL as this under-satisfying vehicle that needs to be priced exceptionally low to be attractive...and its FAR from that.
09-22-2008, 04:01 PM
#105
AZ Community Team
Reading these posts are so funny...
year after year we heard about the complaints about now awd, no rwd, blah blah, we need SH-AWD and more power...
so you finally get the technology you want and you want it for cheap...for the ones saying you'd rather get this or that vehicle...thats cool, get those cars, just like some will get the TL...
by the sounds of it, people want a car that surpasses the likes of BMW, Lexus and MB for 20,000 cheaper...lets be real.
Another thing to, remember this is honda's lexuary line of vehicles...the fact of the matter is that Acura didnt build this car for a typical salary of a 25 year old like myself, and many others.
As mentioned above by one user, it is targeted to the 6 figure salary in the 40+ demographic.
You can sit here and say nobody will buy it but when it comes out, we'll see how it sells...the fact of the matter is the people saying this have no crediability to make such a statement, no insult, its just true...Honda didn't just decide to price it at what they did because they grabbed that number. I have worked on a project where we had to establish a pricing point, and many things are taken into account, many stats are looked at, focus groups, surveys, comparisons and so on...its not only "how much would I pay for a Acura TL"
I hope my post is not taken in an offensive manner...
also this attitude where u hear, "For that much I'd rather spend 4-5k more and get (fill in the blank", it paints the TL as this under-satisfying vehicle that needs to be priced exceptionally low to be attractive...and its FAR from that.
year after year we heard about the complaints about now awd, no rwd, blah blah, we need SH-AWD and more power...
so you finally get the technology you want and you want it for cheap...for the ones saying you'd rather get this or that vehicle...thats cool, get those cars, just like some will get the TL...
by the sounds of it, people want a car that surpasses the likes of BMW, Lexus and MB for 20,000 cheaper...lets be real.
Another thing to, remember this is honda's lexuary line of vehicles...the fact of the matter is that Acura didnt build this car for a typical salary of a 25 year old like myself, and many others.
As mentioned above by one user, it is targeted to the 6 figure salary in the 40+ demographic.
You can sit here and say nobody will buy it but when it comes out, we'll see how it sells...the fact of the matter is the people saying this have no crediability to make such a statement, no insult, its just true...Honda didn't just decide to price it at what they did because they grabbed that number. I have worked on a project where we had to establish a pricing point, and many things are taken into account, many stats are looked at, focus groups, surveys, comparisons and so on...its not only "how much would I pay for a Acura TL"
I hope my post is not taken in an offensive manner...
also this attitude where u hear, "For that much I'd rather spend 4-5k more and get (fill in the blank", it paints the TL as this under-satisfying vehicle that needs to be priced exceptionally low to be attractive...and its FAR from that.
, well written. And not offensive at all, some folks needs a splash of reality once in a while!
09-22-2008, 04:17 PM
#106
Burning Brakes
The TSX will take over the TL's prior segment, and the manual is much more appreciated.
This TL may spell the doom of the RL. Apart from styling why would one get an RL over the TL at this point? There's not much difference in amenities apart from the cooled seats and the collision mitigation system.
I have an 05 TL and love it. I financed it brand new. It will be paid off by the end of this year. I plan on keeping it for several more years. I would love the tech package (iPod integration) but it just doesn't justify me trading in for a new TL. The 09 has an ackward look. To me, I wouldn't call it ugly but it is ruggardly handsome, sort of like the actor Daniel Craig (new 007), for reference. I am sure plenty who are in the market for a new car will give it a hard look.
09-22-2008, 05:21 PM
#107
Racer
Reading these posts are so funny...
year after year we heard about the complaints about now awd, no rwd, blah blah, we need SH-AWD and more power...
so you finally get the technology you want and you want it for cheap...for the ones saying you'd rather get this or that vehicle...thats cool, get those cars, just like some will get the TL...
by the sounds of it, people want a car that surpasses the likes of BMW, Lexus and MB for 20,000 cheaper...lets be real.
Another thing to, remember this is honda's lexuary line of vehicles...the fact of the matter is that Acura didnt build this car for a typical salary of a 25 year old like myself, and many others.
As mentioned above by one user, it is targeted to the 6 figure salary in the 40+ demographic.
You can sit here and say nobody will buy it but when it comes out, we'll see how it sells...the fact of the matter is the people saying this have no crediability to make such a statement, no insult, its just true...Honda didn't just decide to price it at what they did because they grabbed that number. I have worked on a project where we had to establish a pricing point, and many things are taken into account, many stats are looked at, focus groups, surveys, comparisons and so on...its not only "how much would I pay for a Acura TL"
I hope my post is not taken in an offensive manner...
also this attitude where u hear, "For that much I'd rather spend 4-5k more and get (fill in the blank", it paints the TL as this under-satisfying vehicle that needs to be priced exceptionally low to be attractive...and its FAR from that.
year after year we heard about the complaints about now awd, no rwd, blah blah, we need SH-AWD and more power...
so you finally get the technology you want and you want it for cheap...for the ones saying you'd rather get this or that vehicle...thats cool, get those cars, just like some will get the TL...
by the sounds of it, people want a car that surpasses the likes of BMW, Lexus and MB for 20,000 cheaper...lets be real.
Another thing to, remember this is honda's lexuary line of vehicles...the fact of the matter is that Acura didnt build this car for a typical salary of a 25 year old like myself, and many others.
As mentioned above by one user, it is targeted to the 6 figure salary in the 40+ demographic.
You can sit here and say nobody will buy it but when it comes out, we'll see how it sells...the fact of the matter is the people saying this have no crediability to make such a statement, no insult, its just true...Honda didn't just decide to price it at what they did because they grabbed that number. I have worked on a project where we had to establish a pricing point, and many things are taken into account, many stats are looked at, focus groups, surveys, comparisons and so on...its not only "how much would I pay for a Acura TL"
I hope my post is not taken in an offensive manner...
also this attitude where u hear, "For that much I'd rather spend 4-5k more and get (fill in the blank", it paints the TL as this under-satisfying vehicle that needs to be priced exceptionally low to be attractive...and its FAR from that.
5-10K more than the TL brings you to a whole new price point car wise and is really not Acura's target market with the TL.
I am still out on the styling until, I see it in person.
Last edited by Hugh9269; 09-22-2008 at 05:23 PM.
09-22-2008, 05:23 PM
#108
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Everyone is indeed different. I'm in the targeted demographics for the TL, and my next car will likely be a Lexus, Infiniti, or a Honda. I have one more year to go on the TL, since I plan to keep it until the 4 year warranty expires.
My main point though is that Acura could have an identical list of features and at a slightly cheaper price than a Lexus, and I'd take the Lexus every time. Unlike you, I was totally unimpressed by my 2006 TL. I go from a 2008 Accord to my 2006 TL, and there is very very little difference.
In other words, I agree that the TL would be well worth $42K, if only it said Lexus on the trunk.
I'm still a Honda fan, I just don't think the TL is worth the extra $8100 over a nearly identical Accord - just like you don't think the RL is worth the extra over the TL.
09-22-2008, 07:20 PM
#110
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Reading these posts are so funny...
year after year we heard about the complaints about now awd, no rwd, blah blah, we need SH-AWD and more power...
so you finally get the technology you want and you want it for cheap...for the ones saying you'd rather get this or that vehicle...thats cool, get those cars, just like some will get the TL...
by the sounds of it, people want a car that surpasses the likes of BMW, Lexus and MB for 20,000 cheaper...lets be real.
Another thing to, remember this is honda's lexuary line of vehicles...the fact of the matter is that Acura didnt build this car for a typical salary of a 25 year old like myself, and many others.
As mentioned above by one user, it is targeted to the 6 figure salary in the 40+ demographic.
You can sit here and say nobody will buy it but when it comes out, we'll see how it sells...the fact of the matter is the people saying this have no crediability to make such a statement, no insult, its just true...Honda didn't just decide to price it at what they did because they grabbed that number. I have worked on a project where we had to establish a pricing point, and many things are taken into account, many stats are looked at, focus groups, surveys, comparisons and so on...its not only "how much would I pay for a Acura TL"
I hope my post is not taken in an offensive manner...
also this attitude where u hear, "For that much I'd rather spend 4-5k more and get (fill in the blank", it paints the TL as this under-satisfying vehicle that needs to be priced exceptionally low to be attractive...and its FAR from that.
year after year we heard about the complaints about now awd, no rwd, blah blah, we need SH-AWD and more power...
so you finally get the technology you want and you want it for cheap...for the ones saying you'd rather get this or that vehicle...thats cool, get those cars, just like some will get the TL...
by the sounds of it, people want a car that surpasses the likes of BMW, Lexus and MB for 20,000 cheaper...lets be real.
Another thing to, remember this is honda's lexuary line of vehicles...the fact of the matter is that Acura didnt build this car for a typical salary of a 25 year old like myself, and many others.
As mentioned above by one user, it is targeted to the 6 figure salary in the 40+ demographic.
You can sit here and say nobody will buy it but when it comes out, we'll see how it sells...the fact of the matter is the people saying this have no crediability to make such a statement, no insult, its just true...Honda didn't just decide to price it at what they did because they grabbed that number. I have worked on a project where we had to establish a pricing point, and many things are taken into account, many stats are looked at, focus groups, surveys, comparisons and so on...its not only "how much would I pay for a Acura TL"
I hope my post is not taken in an offensive manner...
also this attitude where u hear, "For that much I'd rather spend 4-5k more and get (fill in the blank", it paints the TL as this under-satisfying vehicle that needs to be priced exceptionally low to be attractive...and its FAR from that.
Since you are experienced in research and analysis on pricing, then you probably also know that pricing decision is an art(educated guess) at best for marketers.
As someone who worked in brand management, I can say personally that taking a price increase is probably the most hair raising decision a marketer can make.
Even with sophisticated market research techniques such as price sensitivity analysis and conjoint analysis on the possible effects of pricing and feature changes, marketers are often time wringing their hands after instituting a price increase no matter how positive their market research may have been.
Acura is smart in that they know they can not make themselves "tier 1" overnite in the consumer minds. That's why the 4G starting price point only went up by about $1000 from the 3G. The big question is how well the upper price point increase of nearly $5000 will do. To put it in another way, the 3G lineup had a price range of about $4K+ where as 4G lineup has a price range of $8K+!
However, at the upper end, Acura needs more than SHAWD and better materials to compete with the BMW, Lexus, Mercedes.
They need to bump up their prestige factor and dealer service level (no offense to Colin).
Other than the well known squeaks and infamous transmission failures aside, Acura has the engine/reliability/value corner locked up. However, their styling efforts have been conservative and inconsistent. But they know that hence their new dedicated LA design center for Acura.
I think Acura will get to there desired tier 1 status. These new pricing structure/styling efforts are Acura's efforts to get there.
09-22-2008, 08:25 PM
#112
Burning Brakes
This is funny because its just the thing people argued against when we said it about the TL.
Everyone is indeed different. I'm in the targeted demographics for the TL, and my next car will likely be a Lexus, Infiniti, or a Honda. I have one more year to go on the TL, since I plan to keep it until the 4 year warranty expires.
My main point though is that Acura could have an identical list of features and at a slightly cheaper price than a Lexus, and I'd take the Lexus every time. Unlike you, I was totally unimpressed by my 2006 TL. I go from a 2008 Accord to my 2006 TL, and there is very very little difference.
In other words, I agree that the TL would be well worth $42K, if only it said Lexus on the trunk.
I'm still a Honda fan, I just don't think the TL is worth the extra $8100 over a nearly identical Accord - just like you don't think the RL is worth the extra over the TL.
Everyone is indeed different. I'm in the targeted demographics for the TL, and my next car will likely be a Lexus, Infiniti, or a Honda. I have one more year to go on the TL, since I plan to keep it until the 4 year warranty expires.
My main point though is that Acura could have an identical list of features and at a slightly cheaper price than a Lexus, and I'd take the Lexus every time. Unlike you, I was totally unimpressed by my 2006 TL. I go from a 2008 Accord to my 2006 TL, and there is very very little difference.
In other words, I agree that the TL would be well worth $42K, if only it said Lexus on the trunk.
I'm still a Honda fan, I just don't think the TL is worth the extra $8100 over a nearly identical Accord - just like you don't think the RL is worth the extra over the TL.
09-22-2008, 09:02 PM
#113
You'll Never Walk Alone
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^awood was comparing the fully loaded Accord to the TL with Tech, that's where the $8.1k came from.
Problem is, he compared his 2006 TL to his 2008 Accord, then he went on and compared the price difference between the 09 TL tech with the 08 Accord loaded.
The $8.1k difference does NOT apply to the comparison between the 08 Accord and 06 TL. It's more like $5k or so. And it's not surprising if they are very similar. the 08 Accord after all, is the brand new 8th gen model, while the 06 is only the 3rd gen TL. For example, the 2003 Accord is also similar to the 2003 TL.
Then of course, with the tech package, the 09 TL has a whole lot more features and has much higher quality than the 08 Accord (at least this is true according to most mags. Unfortunately, there's no new TL in Canada yet, so I can't sit in one and prove this). IMO, go sit in one, have a test drive first, before making any decision.
Problem is, he compared his 2006 TL to his 2008 Accord, then he went on and compared the price difference between the 09 TL tech with the 08 Accord loaded.
The $8.1k difference does NOT apply to the comparison between the 08 Accord and 06 TL. It's more like $5k or so. And it's not surprising if they are very similar. the 08 Accord after all, is the brand new 8th gen model, while the 06 is only the 3rd gen TL. For example, the 2003 Accord is also similar to the 2003 TL.
Then of course, with the tech package, the 09 TL has a whole lot more features and has much higher quality than the 08 Accord (at least this is true according to most mags. Unfortunately, there's no new TL in Canada yet, so I can't sit in one and prove this). IMO, go sit in one, have a test drive first, before making any decision.
09-22-2008, 09:32 PM
#114
Suzuka Master
I don't really want to get too embroiled in this part of the discussion but I want to point out that (to me) this is the problem. Everybody has a 'hot' button and it's different from one person to the next.
For example, I've had push button start for the last 8 years on our S2000, frankly, I could care less about this. (before you write, I know the TL setup is keyless access and better) The point is, that its not something that would become a 'buying decision' for me. HID lighting is a make or break item for me.
So the mfg has to choose how they will do things. Throw everything in as Acura usually does? Break it into packages? Go line by line with options like the Europeans do? Obviously no single solution will make everybody happy.
For example, I've had push button start for the last 8 years on our S2000, frankly, I could care less about this. (before you write, I know the TL setup is keyless access and better) The point is, that its not something that would become a 'buying decision' for me. HID lighting is a make or break item for me.
So the mfg has to choose how they will do things. Throw everything in as Acura usually does? Break it into packages? Go line by line with options like the Europeans do? Obviously no single solution will make everybody happy.
09-22-2008, 09:37 PM
#115
Suzuka Master
Thread Starter
After driving and owning keyless entry cars and now dealing with this monster switch blade fob on the 08 3G I have to say keyless is critical. And EVERY Acura should have it, all the competition is going that ways and again I can get it on most Nissans at a fraction of the price.
09-22-2008, 11:04 PM
#116
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After driving and owning keyless entry cars and now dealing with this monster switch blade fob on the 08 3G I have to say keyless is critical. And EVERY Acura should have it, all the competition is going that ways and again I can get it on most Nissans at a fraction of the price.
I personally think HID's should be standard on premium cars..yet so many premium cars don't come with that as a standard feature, just like keyless entry.
09-23-2008, 12:02 PM
#117
the way i look at this, Acura hasnt exactly earned or cemented sedans that are worth mid 40's to high 40's when its all said and done. Reason why Benz/BMW etc can do it, is well, because they are a Benz/BMW. its what comes with the vanity of it all.
Acura has to start somewhere, maybe they are using the TL to push the label forward. Personally, i think the jump should be made using the RL as the guide...over 40 for a TL? no way, even with the shawd. Too many good cars in that segment to plant 45K plus tax on. Benz, BMW, the Infiniti M, Audi anything really....if im spending 45, thats when name recognition will start to matter for me. under 40, where acura has primarily sat for its existance, is common territory. Theyre going to have to bring something serious to the table to start drawing away from the German cars & stickers.
all that being said tho, from what i hear, the sound damping, quality, and things that would justify a step up in class are in the TL.
Acura has to start somewhere, maybe they are using the TL to push the label forward. Personally, i think the jump should be made using the RL as the guide...over 40 for a TL? no way, even with the shawd. Too many good cars in that segment to plant 45K plus tax on. Benz, BMW, the Infiniti M, Audi anything really....if im spending 45, thats when name recognition will start to matter for me. under 40, where acura has primarily sat for its existance, is common territory. Theyre going to have to bring something serious to the table to start drawing away from the German cars & stickers.
all that being said tho, from what i hear, the sound damping, quality, and things that would justify a step up in class are in the TL.
09-23-2008, 12:09 PM
#118
I personally like out of all the honda/acura sedans...i think the Accord V6 w/nav is the best one out and combines best of all worlds. Not to mention for the price...dont see how the TSX is justified, and then comparing the accord to the tl....the accord holds its own. the new accord is one solid & significant vehicle. (just got one by the way...) when compared to the TL's in my fam, i think the accord is a better car, just my opinion. its more comfortable, more spacious, better value etc. and honestly the interior of the honda went up dramatically for the new accord. I honestly felt like i was driving my Acura.
09-23-2008, 06:27 PM
#119
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They did try it first with the RL, which failed miserably (I think it started at 50k+, and later added the base model which started at mid $40k?). For the TL, they set the base price to be at mid $30's. With SH-AWD it's still under $40k, it's only when you add in the tech package then it will be at $42k. IMO that's only slightly above $40k, and it's not going to be the best selling trim anyways. It's a good start for Acura anyways. A lot of people have been complaining that most, if not all Acura models lack packages/options, ie they only come in one or 2 trims with a choice of two different gearboxes only. Now they are starting to expand, we will have to wait few months to see how this will work for Acura.
09-23-2008, 07:07 PM
#120
Three Wheelin'
The dealership here, Crown Acura- the sticker for the TL w/ Tech package was 39,489- and W/O Tech package was 35,689- I believe the only thing that separates the two according to the salesman was the NAV and Keyless entry-