Nightmare Acura TL experience....*UPDATE pg 7* Superior Acura of Fairfield ROCKS!
04-09-2010, 03:36 PM
#121
Yeah, man, keep the story going.
There may be some discussion, advice, disagreement or alternate points of view, but as long as it's respectful, everyone needs to take it in stride. At the end of the day it's your car and you have to do what you think is best for you.
Of course the final decision is yours - post or not - but I think everyone wants a positive outcome for you.
There may be some discussion, advice, disagreement or alternate points of view, but as long as it's respectful, everyone needs to take it in stride. At the end of the day it's your car and you have to do what you think is best for you.
Of course the final decision is yours - post or not - but I think everyone wants a positive outcome for you.
x2
04-09-2010, 09:55 PM
#122
I think you also need to look at this from another perspective. They wouldn't want to rush the evaluation, in case there is something they are missing. You also have to realize that if everyone who complained about their new cars got a new one, they (and every other manufacturer) would be out of business. This whole thing is very real to you and makes complete sense. They don't know you from anyone, and let's face it; there are some real wackos out there trying to beat the system. You just saw it with Toyota. For all they know, you are one of them. You know you're not, but you need to give them time to put all of the pieces together. If you rush this, you'll be disappointed.
NJ.....I'm not looking at this from Acura's point of view. Don't have to, nor do I want to. My stance is I paid them money for a brand new car that's supposed to work. It doesn't.
I can play the "what if" game with them, too. What if I was crushed by a semi? Two can play that game.
Bottom line, my new $40K Acura broke. It broke so badly it came very close to causing an accident that could have caused an accident, where not only I could have been hurt (or worse), but others could have just as easily been in and accident, hurt (or worse).
My view begins and ends there. At this point, I really don't care why. I don't care why they won't pay my tow charge. I don't care what they "THINK" might be wrong with my new $40K car. I have zero faith that they really know what went wrong.
What I do know that no Acura customer, with a new TL should have had this happen. I bought the TL because they're supposedly build reliable, safe, and bulletproof cars. Mine isn't one of them.
I do believe my car is a rarity. But, I also believe that Acura should do what's right. So far, they haven't.
I'm not asking for a refund. I'm asking them to replace my new car, with another new car identical to mine. They've already said that they "could" do that (via the regional rep). He chooses not to.
Forgot to mention, when I was talking to the General Manager of my Acura dealership whether he'd put his family in my car, when they replaced what they said was wrong. Pretty telling, but he said "no way".
As more new info becomes available, I'll post it.
04-10-2010, 10:43 PM
#123
Back From The dead
You know, you're right. You don't have to look at it any other way than you are.
04-11-2010, 09:31 AM
#124
Further, it was my hope that Acura cared more about my predicament than they've shown so far.
Fact is, Acuras are very reliable. So, when something goes sideways, in such a dramatic way, with a brand new car, I would think that Acura would do the right thing. The right thing is not "let's slap some parts in and see if that works" attitude.
Their attitude so far has been.."so what if we lose a customer?" And, "we're not going to give an inch to reimburse a customer that suffered a catastrophic breakdown in his new TL."
I'm giving Acrua the opportunity to do what's right and to keep an avid Acura lover (me) in the fold. I've left no gray area in my communications with Acura, whether it be with their representatives, their dealership, TLC or ACS.
They can slice it, dice it, try to redirect the problems, procrastinate, deny my concerns and/or request, question my intent....none of that solves the problem.
My patience is wearing very thin at this point, however.
I'm hoping to hear some good news tomorrow. If not, well......I've made my position very clear to them. Either there will be a new TL in my garage next week, along with a total reimbursement of all of my "out of pocket", or there will be something else in my driveway. It won't be an Acura. And, it will be at great expense to me. That's something I won't forget....whether communicating in on line forums, talking to family and friends about the brand, or even business colleagues.
There is no middle ground. I've made that clear to them, too. Further, I feel justified in my position.
04-11-2010, 10:07 AM
#125
Back From The dead
It's ok, I understand where you are and how you feel. Sometimes reading the other sides perception of the situation makes it easier to understand why they haven't done what you want, when you wanted. It makes it easier for you to deal with the pace of the situation; not saying that they are justified, just trying to give you a little peace of mind while you're waiting. Perception is the most dangerous word there is. Yours is your reality, and not theirs.
04-11-2010, 10:08 AM
#126
2010 TL AWD 6MT: New King
Their attitude so far has been.."so what if we lose a customer?" And, "we're not going to give an inch to reimburse a customer that suffered a catastrophic breakdown in his new TL."
I'm hoping to hear some good news tomorrow. If not, well......I've made my position very clear to them. Either there will be a new TL in my garage next week, along with a total reimbursement of all of my "out of pocket", or there will be something else in my driveway. It won't be an Acura. And, it will be at great expense to me. That's something I won't forget....whether communicating in on line forums, talking to family and friends about the brand, or even business colleagues.
There is no middle ground. I've made that clear to them, too. Further, I feel justified in my position.
I'm hoping to hear some good news tomorrow. If not, well......I've made my position very clear to them. Either there will be a new TL in my garage next week, along with a total reimbursement of all of my "out of pocket", or there will be something else in my driveway. It won't be an Acura. And, it will be at great expense to me. That's something I won't forget....whether communicating in on line forums, talking to family and friends about the brand, or even business colleagues.
There is no middle ground. I've made that clear to them, too. Further, I feel justified in my position.
I went through a similar nightmare situation, but with Lexus. You can search the thread for my story if you are inclined so I don't hijack your thread, but I gave up after 4000 miles with a brand new $40k 2009 Lexus IS 250 AWD, and that's how I ended up with my 2010 TL. Sucks financially, leaves a very sour taste with that company, and that memory and anger never goes away.
Best of luck to you. In my experience, auto companies don't care if they loose a customer. One way or the other, they want their share of profits, no matter the cost. Just look at Toyota.
04-11-2010, 11:07 AM
#127
Thanks docboy.
I'm sure Acura's not the lone ranger with this type of behavior.
I've read many stories from people who had catastrophic failures with new cars...with several different brands (like your Lexus experience). They've yet tried to blame me for my issues. But, they haven't stepped to the plate and taken care of me, either.
From other stories I've read, there are plenty of similarities. Deny a problem exists (as has been widely publicized with Lexus/Toyota recently). Or, try fix after fix after fix to placate owners (which rarely works). Or, pretend that the owner shouldn't be upset. Or, act like owners are being unreasonable.
Is it unreasonable to want a new car that performs like a new car without a major breakdown? I don't think so.
In my case, the answer is obvious. Just swap out my new TL, for another new TL. Whatever finagling the dealership or Acura has to do to make that happen is not my concern. But, it's obviously the right thing to do. I think it's obvious to Acura and the dealership, too. Yet, they'll do everything except to replace it.
Of course I don't know the end result yet. But, since no one has said they'll replace my car, I get the sneaky suspicion that they're going to throw a new fuel pump into my car and see if that fixes it. If not, they'll throw some other new parts at it. Then, if it happens again (which could have major negative consequences), they'll try to throw some more new parts at it.
Sometimes there's just a unit that doesn't quite come together right. Mine is one of those. Just admit it and do what's right.
You'd think Acura would want to find out why. Take the car and rip it apart to see what exactly happened.
Back in '04, I bought an RX8.....one of the first ones in my area. I'd always been a fan of the Mazda RX cars. A couple of weeks after I bought it, I got a letter from Mazda which said they overestimated the horsepower of the RX8 (should have been 250HP and instead it was 237HP). They said to just return it to the Mazda dealer and they'd give me back all of my money. They didn't have to do that. And, it certainly wasn't a safety related issue, but they did the right thing, going over and above what was expected.
I don't dyno my cars. I would never have known the HP was less than stated.
Acura's a higher end brand than Mazda is. Yet, the concept of doing the right thing seems foreign to Acura than it was to Mazda.
I'm sure Acura's not the lone ranger with this type of behavior.
I've read many stories from people who had catastrophic failures with new cars...with several different brands (like your Lexus experience). They've yet tried to blame me for my issues. But, they haven't stepped to the plate and taken care of me, either.
From other stories I've read, there are plenty of similarities. Deny a problem exists (as has been widely publicized with Lexus/Toyota recently). Or, try fix after fix after fix to placate owners (which rarely works). Or, pretend that the owner shouldn't be upset. Or, act like owners are being unreasonable.
Is it unreasonable to want a new car that performs like a new car without a major breakdown? I don't think so.
In my case, the answer is obvious. Just swap out my new TL, for another new TL. Whatever finagling the dealership or Acura has to do to make that happen is not my concern. But, it's obviously the right thing to do. I think it's obvious to Acura and the dealership, too. Yet, they'll do everything except to replace it.
Of course I don't know the end result yet. But, since no one has said they'll replace my car, I get the sneaky suspicion that they're going to throw a new fuel pump into my car and see if that fixes it. If not, they'll throw some other new parts at it. Then, if it happens again (which could have major negative consequences), they'll try to throw some more new parts at it.
Sometimes there's just a unit that doesn't quite come together right. Mine is one of those. Just admit it and do what's right.
You'd think Acura would want to find out why. Take the car and rip it apart to see what exactly happened.
Back in '04, I bought an RX8.....one of the first ones in my area. I'd always been a fan of the Mazda RX cars. A couple of weeks after I bought it, I got a letter from Mazda which said they overestimated the horsepower of the RX8 (should have been 250HP and instead it was 237HP). They said to just return it to the Mazda dealer and they'd give me back all of my money. They didn't have to do that. And, it certainly wasn't a safety related issue, but they did the right thing, going over and above what was expected.
I don't dyno my cars. I would never have known the HP was less than stated.
Acura's a higher end brand than Mazda is. Yet, the concept of doing the right thing seems foreign to Acura than it was to Mazda.
04-11-2010, 06:13 PM
#128
Graphicguy, Mazda probably offered the returns to avoid class-action litigation. Acura does not have that problem yet. At this point, Acura is probably being careful not to take a position that would compromise its position, say, in court; should there be litigation, Acura will say that it has followed the terms of the warranty. Of course, the landscape would change if a customer's problem were to reoccur resulting in damage, but management might even be deciding that a possible repeat may be worth the risk of refusing to replace a defective TL, just to avoid the precedent of giving out new cars.
Acura management may well be concerned about your situation and the possibility of a reoccurance, and may eventually step up, but it is not yet ready to show any cards, especially if your's is a one-off problem.
Having said that, I, too would be upset if I received the same treatment you have been getting. Among other reasons, I purchased Acuras because of the reputation of the 1) company, 2) the brand, and 2) the dealer.
Acura management may well be concerned about your situation and the possibility of a reoccurance, and may eventually step up, but it is not yet ready to show any cards, especially if your's is a one-off problem.
Having said that, I, too would be upset if I received the same treatment you have been getting. Among other reasons, I purchased Acuras because of the reputation of the 1) company, 2) the brand, and 2) the dealer.
04-11-2010, 06:45 PM
#129
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GraphicGuy-I am VERY anxious to see if Acura "does the right thing" by giving you a new 2010 TL. This is great reading. I'm keeping my fingers crossed for you.
National Acura Meet-June 6th/Kansas City. Click here for details and to sign up!
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National Acura Meet-June 6th/Kansas City. Click here for details and to sign up!
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04-12-2010, 02:08 PM
#130
The dealership and service manager don't have enough power to make any major decisions (like giving you a new car). They can make recommendations and are feeding info back to Acura HQ, but in the end they're just the middle-men. Treat them well and keep them on your side, but really work over HQ.
In my experience at least, Acura HQ always seemed to want to do the right thing. But they operated at a snail's pace and always chose their words carefully--I susepect to cover their asses, which is to be expected.
I would be totally PO'ed if I was in your situation, but try to be patient, especially since you have a loaner. The bottom line is your car is under warranty, you signed a contract to purchase a new vehicle and the contract stipulates a certail level of functionality--if Acura can't restore that functionality, there isn't a state that wouldn't get your money back under the rules of the Lemon Law.
Continue to keep the lines of communication open and really push your safety concerns on them. If--God forbid--all they did was throw some parts in your car and you had another problem, but this time someone got hurt, Acura would be in a very actionable position.
With that out of the way, I have a gut feeling my dealership purposefully took their time trying to "fix" my original car, so that the they would be in a better position to petition Acura HQ to get me a replacement. I have no proof of this, but it was such a simple problem that I can't fathom now how it could have taken so long to "fix". Ehhh...probably crazy of me to think this, but I think because I was really good to the dealership throughout my ordeal (talking them up to HQ, etc.) they did what they could on my behalf. Maybe I'm nuts. Whatever, I got a new car and I'm happy now. And my problem wasn't nearly as sever as yours. It's only a matter of time before you get a new car in my opinion.
In my experience at least, Acura HQ always seemed to want to do the right thing. But they operated at a snail's pace and always chose their words carefully--I susepect to cover their asses, which is to be expected.
I would be totally PO'ed if I was in your situation, but try to be patient, especially since you have a loaner. The bottom line is your car is under warranty, you signed a contract to purchase a new vehicle and the contract stipulates a certail level of functionality--if Acura can't restore that functionality, there isn't a state that wouldn't get your money back under the rules of the Lemon Law.
Continue to keep the lines of communication open and really push your safety concerns on them. If--God forbid--all they did was throw some parts in your car and you had another problem, but this time someone got hurt, Acura would be in a very actionable position.
With that out of the way, I have a gut feeling my dealership purposefully took their time trying to "fix" my original car, so that the they would be in a better position to petition Acura HQ to get me a replacement. I have no proof of this, but it was such a simple problem that I can't fathom now how it could have taken so long to "fix". Ehhh...probably crazy of me to think this, but I think because I was really good to the dealership throughout my ordeal (talking them up to HQ, etc.) they did what they could on my behalf. Maybe I'm nuts. Whatever, I got a new car and I'm happy now. And my problem wasn't nearly as sever as yours. It's only a matter of time before you get a new car in my opinion.
04-12-2010, 02:11 PM
#131
Oh, and one more thing, do yourself a favor and get a free consult with a local lemon law attorney, and contact your attorney general's office and have them send you the lemon law documents. If Acura HQ knows you've taken those steps, they'll also know how serious you are.
04-12-2010, 03:38 PM
#132
Jim, Steven, Big....thanks for the advice.
Dealership service dept called this a.m. to tell me my car is fixed....fuel pump. And, they said they wanted the loaner back. At lunch, I went to the dealership to drive it. Well, it starts. And, it runs. But, I could tell within a football field length that something's still not right. It surges and for lack of a better term "retracts" (acceleration-wise). I drove it back to the dealership and had a friend come pick me up.
While waiting for my friend, the service manager offered to drive the car for a couple of days. I told him to drive it as long as he wanted to as I wasn't taking it home with me. He said it could be that the trans had to "readjust" to my driving habits.....BS!!!!!!!
My ACS case guy called back. He said the car's fixed, according to the dealership service manager. I told him it was not. He said to take it back to the dealer. I told him it was already there.
In summation, he said that they wouldn't be reimbursing me for the tow. He said they aren't in the business of replacing vehicles, but fixing vehicles. Clearly, they have no intention of giving me a new car.
So, I'm going shopping tonight for another car, at great expense to me. I won't have this car anymore. I will file with the NHTSA. I will borrow a friend's car to use while I go through all of this. I will write to the VP of Acura, as someone else suggested, outlining my experience....which in my mind is a total breakdown of customer service...on a new car, no less.
In short, I'm through with Acura. They lost a customer forever.
Best of luck to all of you, and thanks for all the suggestions.
Dealership service dept called this a.m. to tell me my car is fixed....fuel pump. And, they said they wanted the loaner back. At lunch, I went to the dealership to drive it. Well, it starts. And, it runs. But, I could tell within a football field length that something's still not right. It surges and for lack of a better term "retracts" (acceleration-wise). I drove it back to the dealership and had a friend come pick me up.
While waiting for my friend, the service manager offered to drive the car for a couple of days. I told him to drive it as long as he wanted to as I wasn't taking it home with me. He said it could be that the trans had to "readjust" to my driving habits.....BS!!!!!!!
My ACS case guy called back. He said the car's fixed, according to the dealership service manager. I told him it was not. He said to take it back to the dealer. I told him it was already there.
In summation, he said that they wouldn't be reimbursing me for the tow. He said they aren't in the business of replacing vehicles, but fixing vehicles. Clearly, they have no intention of giving me a new car.
So, I'm going shopping tonight for another car, at great expense to me. I won't have this car anymore. I will file with the NHTSA. I will borrow a friend's car to use while I go through all of this. I will write to the VP of Acura, as someone else suggested, outlining my experience....which in my mind is a total breakdown of customer service...on a new car, no less.
In short, I'm through with Acura. They lost a customer forever.
Best of luck to all of you, and thanks for all the suggestions.
04-12-2010, 04:34 PM
#134
Wow. That sucks.
Don't go buying a new car right away though. If it's not right, keep bringing it back to the dealer. If they fix it great. If they don't, move forward with lemon law proceedings and get all of your money back. There's absolutely no reason you should be punished financially for buying a new car that broke down. That's crap.
Don't go buying a new car right away though. If it's not right, keep bringing it back to the dealer. If they fix it great. If they don't, move forward with lemon law proceedings and get all of your money back. There's absolutely no reason you should be punished financially for buying a new car that broke down. That's crap.
04-12-2010, 05:29 PM
#135
Drifting
FWIW, I agree. I'd stay on them. You shouldn't have to take the financial hit of buying a new car.
I absolutely cannot believe they won't reimburse you a lousy $300 for a tow.
While there may be professional disagreements as to the cause of your problem and whether it's been fixed, there can be no disagreement that you needed a tow.
For them to quibble over this small amount after the problems you had really leaves a bad taste. I fully understand why you're disgusted.
I absolutely cannot believe they won't reimburse you a lousy $300 for a tow.
While there may be professional disagreements as to the cause of your problem and whether it's been fixed, there can be no disagreement that you needed a tow.
For them to quibble over this small amount after the problems you had really leaves a bad taste. I fully understand why you're disgusted.
04-12-2010, 07:28 PM
#136
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Good luck OP with the new car search.
04-12-2010, 07:46 PM
#137
I can understand Acura wanting to try to fix the car instead of replacing it but there is no excuse for them to not pay the tow bill. I would give them 3 attempts to fix the car and then take it to an independent shop and have them look at it and if they find that you still have a problem I would then contact my attorney. My problem is that if I am right I will take my stand and defend myself and fight till the end. At the point of confirming a problem with an independent shop you then go after the full cost of the car and your expenses. Its principle at that point. I wouldn't put up with taking a loss on the car.
04-12-2010, 07:52 PM
#138
Three Wheelin'
Wow GraphicGuy that seriously blows. And while on my very first read I thought you were just emotional and reactionary, I now totally understand your disgust.
As an outsider, I'm actually more perplexed by the lack of $300 reimbursement than the replacement of the vehicle. Replacing a new TL is possible, but there are many, many obstacles to accomplish such.
But 300 bucks??
Easter Sunday, you're alone on a highway in BFE Indiana, 2 hours from home, almost got crushed by a semi, OF COURSE you're going to want to go closer to home (only 25 miles). And you WALKED HOME for crying out loud...
If there was an "outside the norm" circumstance for reimbursement, THAT was it. Unbelievable.
Sorry man, I don't blame you one bit...good luck with your search...as long as you have the energy/time, I'd write as many letters/emails as you can so at least you can try to get some emotional closure on this one...
04-12-2010, 08:10 PM
#139
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Really pushes me away.
I'm in the market for a new car right now. I was a previous Acura owner and have several different cars on my short list. I visit several different forums and have never heard anything like this before. This experience is making me wonder if the TL should still be on my list.
04-12-2010, 08:15 PM
#140
Thanks all. I appreciate the support. FWIW, I sent a letter to the VP of American Honda, and sent it FedEx overnight. Outlined this whole ordeal. And, typed the link to this thread (if he decides to even check it out).
Further, did some cursory shopping for a new car. Found a sweet '10 BMW 335i xDrive coupe....all loaded up, Nav, heated steering wheel, the works. A bit more money. But, told the BMW dealer my story. $52K MSRP. He came in at $46, 700. Put $34K on my new TL. Said to let him call around a bit since there's no record of anyone selling a one month old TL SH AWD w/tech.
That's a pretty big hit. But dayum....do those drive nice. Very nice looking, too.
Further, did some cursory shopping for a new car. Found a sweet '10 BMW 335i xDrive coupe....all loaded up, Nav, heated steering wheel, the works. A bit more money. But, told the BMW dealer my story. $52K MSRP. He came in at $46, 700. Put $34K on my new TL. Said to let him call around a bit since there's no record of anyone selling a one month old TL SH AWD w/tech.
That's a pretty big hit. But dayum....do those drive nice. Very nice looking, too.
04-12-2010, 08:34 PM
#142
DANG dude...I spent like 30 minutes at WORK reading your saga!!!! Rivetting and sad. 
I'm a pretty big loyal Acura person...since I own TWO of them and it's disheartening to hear them nickel and dime you like this. Probably since no one got hurt they're kinda blowing it off. Lawsuits are usually the only thing that makes companies jump up and take action nowadays...like Toyota.
At the end...they lose...and unfortunately so do you...in terms of money and time. But at least you're healthy and alive to tell the tale to us.
I'm a pretty big loyal Acura person...since I own TWO of them and it's disheartening to hear them nickel and dime you like this. Probably since no one got hurt they're kinda blowing it off. Lawsuits are usually the only thing that makes companies jump up and take action nowadays...like Toyota.
At the end...they lose...and unfortunately so do you...in terms of money and time. But at least you're healthy and alive to tell the tale to us.
04-12-2010, 08:36 PM
#143
Three Wheelin'
GGuy, you might want to wait for the updated 2011 3-series...they're supposed to arrive "Spring 2010", so that could be any day now. Remember for 2011 the 335 has a single, more efficient turbo.
...Or you could leverage this information for an even better deal on a 2010...
Good luck...
And btw, as a fellow driver, I approve the BMW purchase
...Or you could leverage this information for an even better deal on a 2010...
Good luck...
And btw, as a fellow driver, I approve the BMW purchase
04-12-2010, 08:51 PM
#144
Instructor
This is unfortunate but good luck with your search!
I must say, your story is very un-Acura...It almost sounds like GM pre-2008. I can certainly understand both sides of this but even still, it is very surprising that Acura didn't try to appease you in any way.
You've gone this far so you might as well keep fighting for that $300 (if you have time to spare). Did you try to workout a $/mi reimbursement deal whereby they would reimburse you up to the distance of the nearest Acura dealer and any excess would be an expense to you?
I must say, your story is very un-Acura...It almost sounds like GM pre-2008. I can certainly understand both sides of this but even still, it is very surprising that Acura didn't try to appease you in any way.
You've gone this far so you might as well keep fighting for that $300 (if you have time to spare). Did you try to workout a $/mi reimbursement deal whereby they would reimburse you up to the distance of the nearest Acura dealer and any excess would be an expense to you?
04-12-2010, 09:14 PM
#146
I am surprised that they didn't reimburse the tow charge.
04-12-2010, 09:31 PM
#147
How very unfortunate. I am in the market for a 2010 TL MT, but after this, am having second thoughts. Not that this sudden deacceleration might happen to me, but at how Acura has dealt with the situation to date.
If I am buying a $43k vehicle that has a catastrophic failure on the highway, I would hope Acura would have more empathy than it has shown here.
Since you are not driving your TL, may I suggest you park it outside the Acura dealership with a sign in the windshield to the effect of: "This Acura Nearly Killed Me." And a tiny URL link to this thread.
May I also ask that once your BMW deal is done, you post the VIN of the TL and the name of the dealer, so that Acurazine readers can avoid both.
If I am buying a $43k vehicle that has a catastrophic failure on the highway, I would hope Acura would have more empathy than it has shown here.
Since you are not driving your TL, may I suggest you park it outside the Acura dealership with a sign in the windshield to the effect of: "This Acura Nearly Killed Me." And a tiny URL link to this thread.
May I also ask that once your BMW deal is done, you post the VIN of the TL and the name of the dealer, so that Acurazine readers can avoid both.
04-12-2010, 09:43 PM
#148
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wonder if the problem is with the SH-AWD system, have you tried researching the MDX/RDX forums for similar symptoms?
if you can do it, 335xi is definitely a nice upgrade but how will u get them to take the TL off you?
if you can do it, 335xi is definitely a nice upgrade but how will u get them to take the TL off you?
04-13-2010, 04:46 AM
#149
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Sorry to hear it GraphicGuy... I thought more highly of Acura than that.
Please, when possible, post the dealership name and the VIN... If you think the dealership did as well as they can by you and they aren't to blame, I can understand you deciding to not name them, but also knowing how Acura handles CPO's and/or used cars into the dealership, the car may not find itself for sale there. PLEAST POST THE VIN NUMBER WHEN YOU CAN.
As for me, I'm going to go ahead with my purchase this week of a '10 TL (I "lost" my '06 TL a few months ago). Your car non-withstanding, Honda products have the life and resale value proposition that I just can't pass up, and Acura just has the best bang for the buck.
I've worked out a deal for a new '10 TL-TECH FWD with 18" wheels for 32,330... and I can't pass that up (especially considered that the Honda dealer wouldn't come off 32K for a fully loaded CPO Accord. and I can't find a CPO '09 TL-TECH for less than 29K).
Good luck, and please... even if you end up owning a BMW we'd still like to hear about how things go.
By the way, did you specifically tell the dealer and the CS person that you're done with the car at this point and buying a BMW to replace it?
D.
Please, when possible, post the dealership name and the VIN... If you think the dealership did as well as they can by you and they aren't to blame, I can understand you deciding to not name them, but also knowing how Acura handles CPO's and/or used cars into the dealership, the car may not find itself for sale there. PLEAST POST THE VIN NUMBER WHEN YOU CAN.
As for me, I'm going to go ahead with my purchase this week of a '10 TL (I "lost" my '06 TL a few months ago). Your car non-withstanding, Honda products have the life and resale value proposition that I just can't pass up, and Acura just has the best bang for the buck.
I've worked out a deal for a new '10 TL-TECH FWD with 18" wheels for 32,330... and I can't pass that up (especially considered that the Honda dealer wouldn't come off 32K for a fully loaded CPO Accord. and I can't find a CPO '09 TL-TECH for less than 29K).
Good luck, and please... even if you end up owning a BMW we'd still like to hear about how things go.
By the way, did you specifically tell the dealer and the CS person that you're done with the car at this point and buying a BMW to replace it?
D.
04-13-2010, 06:50 AM
#150
Guys, I'll have to look up the vin#. It's on my paperwork and my TLC card...both in my glove box. I don't want to post the vin# until I trade it, for obvious reasons. But, I'll have no problems in doing so after that, however.
Just some funny (actually sad) ancillaries, I called the GM at the dealership to tell him of ACS's response to me. Maybe he's trying to do me a favor. But, when I told him of my decision to dump my new TL, I asked him to put a number on it for me. He said if I traded it for a new TL, he'd give me $34K for it. At first, I was insulted, and told him that I guess if you want a new TL SH AWD, it costs X. IF you want a new TL that actually works right, and is safe, it costs Y.
I was hoping to hear back from the dealership's owner. But, no response after his conversation with me and subsequent apologies. That was about the beginning and the end of his concern.
ACS bordered on rude. I jumped into his "stuff" when he told me he wouldn't cover my tow. I also told him I was going to get rid of my new TL as a result. He kept saying they fixed the car as far as they were concerned. I disagreed with him. We argued for a bit. He certainly wasn't going to change his mind. In short, he couldn't have cared less about my issues. No matter, he was a peon in the scheme of things.
I'm ambivalent about his offer.....mainly because he did listen to my travails, and agreed with my stance. But, in the end, he did nothing except the conference call with the Acura regional rep.
The BMW coupe is a nice car. But man, that's a huge delta I'd have to pay. I could do it, but it really is a large gap. I wrote a check for the TL. To write another one for $13,000 roughly for the BMW is hard to swallow. Maybe if the gap was $5K-$7K, I'd seriously consider it. Doubt that's going to happen, though.
The above deal is based on my dealership actually buying my new TL from the BMW dealership for $34K.
The 3 coupe is nice....cramped (compared to the TL) but a very nice driver. He's got two of them, both white. And, it's not the "nice" white like the TL's WDP. It's a "flat" white. Interior is slick "saddle brown", though. Rough numbers, they're essentially discounting $2,500 and giving me the $2,500 "Spring Sales Drive" rebate.
The one I looked at was a 2010. And yes, the dealership now has the 2011s on the lot.
Didn't check the 535i xDrives. Might be interested in one because the size suits me better. But, I'm thinking there's no way they sell one at $10K off, which would price it near the 3 Series. Who knows?
More likely, I'll probably look at the G37x, journey/nav. I've got a VPP number. Probably swing one of those for high $35s. That would make the financial hit much more palatable. I'm thinking just below $2K to make that trade.
Maybe look at an Audi. But, those scare me just a little bit regarding reliability.
I was also thinking last night, my TL has been in the shop for a week already. Being in the shop 30 days triggers lemon law. So, we've all got little things that aren't quite up to snuff. Just off the top of my head, I could take in back for each of these maladies, one at a time to trigger lemon law...
-surging motor
-my trans is now shifting hard (didn't do that when I first bought it)
-streaming blue tooth audio has drop outs
-when using the front defrost, the fan blows too hard through the front passenger vents
-the climate control doesn't keep the correct set temp (measured it in the car, it's off by about 3-4 degrees)
I could go on. Some of these I wouldn't even bother with. But, if I can come up with 20 or so of them, I'd have enough to take back to the dealer and run their service dept ragged, and in the process have enough to lemon law it.
I'll file it with the NHTSA today. And, see if anything comes from my letter to the VP of Honda America (which I doubt).
Just some funny (actually sad) ancillaries, I called the GM at the dealership to tell him of ACS's response to me. Maybe he's trying to do me a favor. But, when I told him of my decision to dump my new TL, I asked him to put a number on it for me. He said if I traded it for a new TL, he'd give me $34K for it. At first, I was insulted, and told him that I guess if you want a new TL SH AWD, it costs X. IF you want a new TL that actually works right, and is safe, it costs Y.
I was hoping to hear back from the dealership's owner. But, no response after his conversation with me and subsequent apologies. That was about the beginning and the end of his concern.
ACS bordered on rude. I jumped into his "stuff" when he told me he wouldn't cover my tow. I also told him I was going to get rid of my new TL as a result. He kept saying they fixed the car as far as they were concerned. I disagreed with him. We argued for a bit. He certainly wasn't going to change his mind. In short, he couldn't have cared less about my issues. No matter, he was a peon in the scheme of things.
I'm ambivalent about his offer.....mainly because he did listen to my travails, and agreed with my stance. But, in the end, he did nothing except the conference call with the Acura regional rep.
The BMW coupe is a nice car. But man, that's a huge delta I'd have to pay. I could do it, but it really is a large gap. I wrote a check for the TL. To write another one for $13,000 roughly for the BMW is hard to swallow. Maybe if the gap was $5K-$7K, I'd seriously consider it. Doubt that's going to happen, though.
The above deal is based on my dealership actually buying my new TL from the BMW dealership for $34K.
The 3 coupe is nice....cramped (compared to the TL) but a very nice driver. He's got two of them, both white. And, it's not the "nice" white like the TL's WDP. It's a "flat" white. Interior is slick "saddle brown", though. Rough numbers, they're essentially discounting $2,500 and giving me the $2,500 "Spring Sales Drive" rebate.
The one I looked at was a 2010. And yes, the dealership now has the 2011s on the lot.
Didn't check the 535i xDrives. Might be interested in one because the size suits me better. But, I'm thinking there's no way they sell one at $10K off, which would price it near the 3 Series. Who knows?
More likely, I'll probably look at the G37x, journey/nav. I've got a VPP number. Probably swing one of those for high $35s. That would make the financial hit much more palatable. I'm thinking just below $2K to make that trade.
Maybe look at an Audi. But, those scare me just a little bit regarding reliability.
I was also thinking last night, my TL has been in the shop for a week already. Being in the shop 30 days triggers lemon law. So, we've all got little things that aren't quite up to snuff. Just off the top of my head, I could take in back for each of these maladies, one at a time to trigger lemon law...
-surging motor
-my trans is now shifting hard (didn't do that when I first bought it)
-streaming blue tooth audio has drop outs
-when using the front defrost, the fan blows too hard through the front passenger vents
-the climate control doesn't keep the correct set temp (measured it in the car, it's off by about 3-4 degrees)
I could go on. Some of these I wouldn't even bother with. But, if I can come up with 20 or so of them, I'd have enough to take back to the dealer and run their service dept ragged, and in the process have enough to lemon law it.
I'll file it with the NHTSA today. And, see if anything comes from my letter to the VP of Honda America (which I doubt).
Last edited by graphicguy; 04-13-2010 at 06:55 AM.
04-13-2010, 08:34 AM
#152
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^ I agree for the most part
But the $300 for the tow should be refunded. I would continue to complain till they reimburse you since it would have been the same cost either way. You just have to hang in there... I would keep calling every day till they finally give in since they will eventually get tired of it.
As for the car... It seems that you are just trying to find things wrong with it since your mad about the whole situation (which im sure you are, I would be too). You say you want to trade your new car for another new one, but the unfortunate thing is your car is no longer new so unless its a lemon there probably isn't much they will do. Since you have already documented the main issue well keep driving the car and if it happens again get your lawyer ready...
It does sound a little funny v/s Toyota's problem "ooh man my car just uncontrollably slowed down and stopped, it almost killed me"
Sorry but if it was me I wouldn't be dwelling on the situation or trying to find other things wrong with the car. It just makes you sound like a complainer who wants something for free. We know you probably are not, but to the dealer and Acura you will be. Either drive the car and hope it doesn't happen again or trade it in...
But the $300 for the tow should be refunded. I would continue to complain till they reimburse you since it would have been the same cost either way. You just have to hang in there... I would keep calling every day till they finally give in since they will eventually get tired of it.
As for the car... It seems that you are just trying to find things wrong with it since your mad about the whole situation (which im sure you are, I would be too). You say you want to trade your new car for another new one, but the unfortunate thing is your car is no longer new so unless its a lemon there probably isn't much they will do. Since you have already documented the main issue well keep driving the car and if it happens again get your lawyer ready...
It does sound a little funny v/s Toyota's problem "ooh man my car just uncontrollably slowed down and stopped, it almost killed me"
Sorry but if it was me I wouldn't be dwelling on the situation or trying to find other things wrong with the car. It just makes you sound like a complainer who wants something for free. We know you probably are not, but to the dealer and Acura you will be. Either drive the car and hope it doesn't happen again or trade it in...
Last edited by Dopes6070; 04-13-2010 at 08:36 AM.
04-13-2010, 09:33 AM
#153
Said it before....I don't care what Acura thinks of me at this point. They can call me a complainer. They can call me a jerk. They can call me anything they want to. Matter of fact, they can kiss me where the sun don't shine.
If they want to act like pricks towards me, I'll gladly return the favor.
Again, don't know that anyone would want to be in my shoes. Obviously some think I'm being irrational. That's OK, too.
Bottom line, my new TL came close to getting me in an accident. I have no faith that they truly fixed the cause of the problem. Further, I won't take my new TL (I know you guys think it's used, but it's now barely a month old....that's new to me) on the highway.
And, as long as it's still in my possession, I'll complain about every little niggly thing I can about it, until it's no longer in my garage.
I'm just reflecting the attitude and treatment as Acura has shown towards me.
I will find a car, a car company, and a dealership who appreciates my business, and is worthy of my money.
If they want to act like pricks towards me, I'll gladly return the favor.
Again, don't know that anyone would want to be in my shoes. Obviously some think I'm being irrational. That's OK, too.
Bottom line, my new TL came close to getting me in an accident. I have no faith that they truly fixed the cause of the problem. Further, I won't take my new TL (I know you guys think it's used, but it's now barely a month old....that's new to me) on the highway.
And, as long as it's still in my possession, I'll complain about every little niggly thing I can about it, until it's no longer in my garage.
I'm just reflecting the attitude and treatment as Acura has shown towards me.
I will find a car, a car company, and a dealership who appreciates my business, and is worthy of my money.
04-13-2010, 09:50 AM
#154
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And thats fine. All I am saying is the focus of your complaint to Acura should be that the initial problem is not fixed. Deal with one thing at a time.
You will get nowhere if you start making a huge deal out of small random things. This is going to hurt your case with Acura and make them even less likely to give you your money back or a new car. Remember the old saying "you get more bees with honey" It's true here. I do think your request for a new car is unreasonable but I would still like to give advice that might help you since we are all enthusiasts here.
You will get nowhere if you start making a huge deal out of small random things. This is going to hurt your case with Acura and make them even less likely to give you your money back or a new car. Remember the old saying "you get more bees with honey" It's true here. I do think your request for a new car is unreasonable but I would still like to give advice that might help you since we are all enthusiasts here.
04-13-2010, 09:59 AM
#155
2010 TL AWD 6MT: New King
I support Graphicguy's stance.
When you buy a new car, there are certain expectations one has, such as the ability to drive the safely, in reasonable comfort, and from point A to B without excessive un-necessary shortcomings.
The rare occasion comes when little things begin to occur, and it just begins to pile up: to the stages of dissatisfaction, attempting and failing to find desired resolution, anger, and ultimately one wants to rid of the product and move on with life.
As I've posted before on AZ, it happened to me with my 2009 Lexus IS 250 AWD. I had to shell out an extra $14k when I traded it in a 4000 miles. Was it a waste of money, you bet it was. Am I still pissed off about it, definitely. Do I wish I could go back in time and never bought the dam car, constantly. But at least I can try to move on with life and not have to deal with the prior car. You can make the money back.
On top of my head, I can recall a similar situation; a friend of mine was pissed off at his new 330i's mechanical/electrical issues, he traded it in a few months later for a 07 ES330. He took a big hit as well.
Rare occasions like this don't happen often. And one can't really understand what is happening until something like this happens to the individual. It really is a nightmare one wants to resolve.
When you buy a new car, there are certain expectations one has, such as the ability to drive the safely, in reasonable comfort, and from point A to B without excessive un-necessary shortcomings.
The rare occasion comes when little things begin to occur, and it just begins to pile up: to the stages of dissatisfaction, attempting and failing to find desired resolution, anger, and ultimately one wants to rid of the product and move on with life.
As I've posted before on AZ, it happened to me with my 2009 Lexus IS 250 AWD. I had to shell out an extra $14k when I traded it in a 4000 miles. Was it a waste of money, you bet it was. Am I still pissed off about it, definitely. Do I wish I could go back in time and never bought the dam car, constantly. But at least I can try to move on with life and not have to deal with the prior car. You can make the money back.
On top of my head, I can recall a similar situation; a friend of mine was pissed off at his new 330i's mechanical/electrical issues, he traded it in a few months later for a 07 ES330. He took a big hit as well.
Rare occasions like this don't happen often. And one can't really understand what is happening until something like this happens to the individual. It really is a nightmare one wants to resolve.
04-13-2010, 10:04 AM
#156
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Graphicguy, I think you can definitely do near 10k off a 535. Just look at edmunds and you will see there. There are people getting 528's for around $40k or around 9k off. Best of luck...
04-13-2010, 10:36 AM
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Originally I thought graphicguy was koo-koo in the head about the whole thing, but after reading about his ordeal as time progressed, I think everything he has said and done and felt is probably right on.
I tried to put myself in his shoes with my car. Here I have a $40,000 piece of equipment that is new and it malfunctions to the point where my life could easily have been taken from me. At least in my case, leaving behind a wife and young son. Imagine being killed in an auto accident and leaving behind your family - your wife husband-less and your children father-less.
Of course I'm irrate about the vehicle and then get treated like crap from Acura. The upper-management at Acura doesn't care about the situation and wants to make sure he has his nice bonus. Then I'm told it was a fuel pump and it's fixed. Upon driving it the car runs like shit and I have to leave it again at the dealer.
Now I have a $40k car that I no longer feel safe in or want and no one cares and wants to help. I feel helpless like it's me against Acura, aka Honda North America. David vs. Goliath. All I can do then unless a lemon law works in my favor is to trade in the car for something new, and the something new I want costs me another $13k.
So yeah I'm pissed, feel helpless and am doing anything to help my cause. I have to be like a turd that won't flush.
Graphicguy - make sure you send a letter to the Attorney Generals in your state and the states where Acura NA and Honda NA are based.
Have fun with your BMW 335 - I almost bought one myself.
I tried to put myself in his shoes with my car. Here I have a $40,000 piece of equipment that is new and it malfunctions to the point where my life could easily have been taken from me. At least in my case, leaving behind a wife and young son. Imagine being killed in an auto accident and leaving behind your family - your wife husband-less and your children father-less.
Of course I'm irrate about the vehicle and then get treated like crap from Acura. The upper-management at Acura doesn't care about the situation and wants to make sure he has his nice bonus. Then I'm told it was a fuel pump and it's fixed. Upon driving it the car runs like shit and I have to leave it again at the dealer.
Now I have a $40k car that I no longer feel safe in or want and no one cares and wants to help. I feel helpless like it's me against Acura, aka Honda North America. David vs. Goliath. All I can do then unless a lemon law works in my favor is to trade in the car for something new, and the something new I want costs me another $13k.
So yeah I'm pissed, feel helpless and am doing anything to help my cause. I have to be like a turd that won't flush.
Graphicguy - make sure you send a letter to the Attorney Generals in your state and the states where Acura NA and Honda NA are based.
Have fun with your BMW 335 - I almost bought one myself.
04-13-2010, 10:37 AM
#158
I support Graphicguy's stance.
When you buy a new car, there are certain expectations one has, such as the ability to drive the safely, in reasonable comfort, and from point A to B without excessive un-necessary shortcomings.
The rare occasion comes when little things begin to occur, and it just begins to pile up: to the stages of dissatisfaction, attempting and failing to find desired resolution, anger, and ultimately one wants to rid of the product and move on with life.
As I've posted before on AZ, it happened to me with my 2009 Lexus IS 250 AWD. I had to shell out an extra $14k when I traded it in a 4000 miles. Was it a waste of money, you bet it was. Am I still pissed off about it, definitely. Do I wish I could go back in time and never bought the dam car, constantly. But at least I can try to move on with life and not have to deal with the prior car. You can make the money back.
On top of my head, I can recall a similar situation; a friend of mine was pissed off at his new 330i's mechanical/electrical issues, he traded it in a few months later for a 07 ES330. He took a big hit as well.
Rare occasions like this don't happen often. And one can't really understand what is happening until something like this happens to the individual. It really is a nightmare one wants to resolve.
When you buy a new car, there are certain expectations one has, such as the ability to drive the safely, in reasonable comfort, and from point A to B without excessive un-necessary shortcomings.
The rare occasion comes when little things begin to occur, and it just begins to pile up: to the stages of dissatisfaction, attempting and failing to find desired resolution, anger, and ultimately one wants to rid of the product and move on with life.
As I've posted before on AZ, it happened to me with my 2009 Lexus IS 250 AWD. I had to shell out an extra $14k when I traded it in a 4000 miles. Was it a waste of money, you bet it was. Am I still pissed off about it, definitely. Do I wish I could go back in time and never bought the dam car, constantly. But at least I can try to move on with life and not have to deal with the prior car. You can make the money back.
On top of my head, I can recall a similar situation; a friend of mine was pissed off at his new 330i's mechanical/electrical issues, he traded it in a few months later for a 07 ES330. He took a big hit as well.
Rare occasions like this don't happen often. And one can't really understand what is happening until something like this happens to the individual. It really is a nightmare one wants to resolve.
Even looking at how my out of pocket expenses and time starts to add up in dealing with these issues, even throwing out the tow charges. I've probably spent a good 2-3 hours on the phone with different dealership and Acura corporate people. Add another couple of hours going to and from the dealership. Another couple of hours with the dealership's personnel, face-to-face. Waiting over an hour for a tow. Another couple of hours during the tow to the dealership, on a holiday, no less. Add in another couple of hours to walk home from the dealership. This isn't over a long period of time. This has happened over just 4 weeks of ownership. What's all that worth?
Add another $32 to send an overnight letter to Acura corporate outlining my experience.
According to Acura, all that's worth nothing. Matter of fact, I paid for the "privilege" of all of this aggravation by plunking down about $40K large for their car, not including my time, and out of pocket expenses.
Just to get another new car that I feel safe and confident in (something I thought I was getting to begin with), clearly that's going to run me at least a few thousand.
It's definitely not fun being kicked in the 'nads and having the kicker want you to take it and smile about it, as you can attest.
PG, thanks for the heads up on the 5. After thinking about it, I'm trying to minimize the financial sting as much as possible. I'm already in too deep with the TL, after adding everything up, to really add another $10K-$15K more to this disaster. After coming out of this Acura, the fuel pumps in the BMWs have me quite leery. At least those cars go into "limp mode" if their fuel pumps go south, I suppose.
I can probably stomach a few grand to extricate myself from this Acura mess. That pretty much limits me to the Audi A4 or the G37.
04-13-2010, 10:59 AM
#160
Originally I thought graphicguy was koo-koo in the head about the whole thing, but after reading about his ordeal as time progressed, I think everything he has said and done and felt is probably right on.
I tried to put myself in his shoes with my car. Here I have a $40,000 piece of equipment that is new and it malfunctions to the point where my life could easily have been taken from me. At least in my case, leaving behind a wife and young son. Imagine being killed in an auto accident and leaving behind your family - your wife husband-less and your children father-less.
Of course I'm irrate about the vehicle and then get treated like crap from Acura. The upper-management at Acura doesn't care about the situation and wants to make sure he has his nice bonus. Then I'm told it was a fuel pump and it's fixed. Upon driving it the car runs like shit and I have to leave it again at the dealer.
Now I have a $40k car that I no longer feel safe in or want and no one cares and wants to help. I feel helpless like it's me against Acura, aka Honda North America. David vs. Goliath. All I can do then unless a lemon law works in my favor is to trade in the car for something new, and the something new I want costs me another $13k.
So yeah I'm pissed, feel helpless and am doing anything to help my cause. I have to be like a turd that won't flush.
Graphicguy - make sure you send a letter to the Attorney Generals in your state and the states where Acura NA and Honda NA are based.
Have fun with your BMW 335 - I almost bought one myself.
I tried to put myself in his shoes with my car. Here I have a $40,000 piece of equipment that is new and it malfunctions to the point where my life could easily have been taken from me. At least in my case, leaving behind a wife and young son. Imagine being killed in an auto accident and leaving behind your family - your wife husband-less and your children father-less.
Of course I'm irrate about the vehicle and then get treated like crap from Acura. The upper-management at Acura doesn't care about the situation and wants to make sure he has his nice bonus. Then I'm told it was a fuel pump and it's fixed. Upon driving it the car runs like shit and I have to leave it again at the dealer.
Now I have a $40k car that I no longer feel safe in or want and no one cares and wants to help. I feel helpless like it's me against Acura, aka Honda North America. David vs. Goliath. All I can do then unless a lemon law works in my favor is to trade in the car for something new, and the something new I want costs me another $13k.
So yeah I'm pissed, feel helpless and am doing anything to help my cause. I have to be like a turd that won't flush.
Graphicguy - make sure you send a letter to the Attorney Generals in your state and the states where Acura NA and Honda NA are based.
Have fun with your BMW 335 - I almost bought one myself.
I always thought that a customer like me, or anyone else, who spends that kind of money on a car (or any amount of money on any new car) should expect some responsibility from the manufacturer and the seller to at least be a teeny bit concerned if something goes seriously awry.
I don't expect the car not to need maintenance, or perhaps have a minor glitch here or there. I do expect a new car to be safe and reliable, right from the factory, though. It would also be nice if both the dealership, and the manufacturer does something more than pay lip service to their alleged exemplary customer service.
I'm not out to harm Acura, or their dealerships. I want what was promised, what I paid for...that is a new car which is safe, reliable, and free from major defects. That's why I buy new vs used. Is that too much to expect?
I certainly don't think so.