NJ SHAWD

GraphicGuy is it safe to say that had you stalled on a 30mph street, and not in traffic, this would have a very different tone?

cp3117

WOW....You have to keep trying to get your money back for the tow. I figured it would be tough being they didnt pay for the tow first hand by billing the tow company like they should have. I didnt think they would outright refuse you though. You actually saved Acura money by towing it home (being it was the same cost) and not having them pay for food, lodging and the expense to then get you home later....Sorry but IMO thats unacceptable.

LOL...Thanks, I couldn't remember the proper term for the live of me yesterday, hence the layman term for it.

Taketwo

Maybe we should all give TLC a call and tell them that we are aware of what they are up to and ask them if denying a $300 tow claim is worth all this bad publicity? There is always strength in numbers.

winstrolvtec

I have to agree with Colin, take all of your concerns to ACS and forget the rest. TLC is a mere service and is very limited in their authorization. You don't want to proceed dealing with three seperate parties and make it worse than it has to be. Your dealer will keep you posted as well but do yourself a favor and let ACS (Acura client cervices) go to work for you.

MyT6MT

+1

crxb

just waiting for the next update myself

waiting for Acura to make it right for the OP (ripped on the no reimburse for the tow
)

graphicguy

Not with a turbo diesel 18 wheeler chasing me at 70 MPH and I'm doing 20 MPH. In all honesty, any road, interstate or two lane, your car has a dramatic drop in speed, with no brake light showing to warn someone, is dangerous. Let's say it was a city street. You're going 40 MPH. The car behind you is trailing...oh, I don't know....say 3 car lengths. The likelihood of you getting hit is pretty good.

UPDATE, since you guys seem to be interested in my travails. I haven't had much time to deal with this. Have spent way, waaaayyyyy too much time on it, already.

First, you guys are right. Forget about TLC. Just deal with Acura Customer Service for everything. As mentioned, they're still investigating (what, I'm not sure). Supposedly, the dealership gets the fuel pump sometime tomorrow or Friday. Given that they have to drain the gas tank, drop the gas tank, take out the old fuel pump, install the new one, reinstall the gas tank, I'm thinking we're looking at next week before that's done.

As I said, I'm thoroughly convinced they're looking in the wrong place, and only going by some manual which Acura says they'll get reimbursement. They may, in fact, curtail the symptom, but not cure the cause.

After work, I just "stopped in" the dealership to see what progress they made since it's on the way home.

So, I'm attacking this from all sides. I've got Acura Customer Care involved. They're doing whatever it is they do. I also cornered my dealer's General Manager. He knows what's going on. He pretty much says he can do a swap. But, in order for the dealership not to bare the brunt of the financial hit, Acura has to agree to protect them. He said they could get my car, use it as a service demo for a few months (which Acura gives them a dollar amount as a service loaner), and see if the problem arises again. If not, they'd sell it. Put it on their lot as used as a service loaner, and not have to say it was a "buyback". That's the way he wants to do an even swap for a new one for me (which tells me Acura gives the dealer a nice stipend for service loaners) Not the way I'd handle it, but that's their business. Acura regional rep has to approve it though. I said I'd like to meet the Regional Rep face-to-face.

On a whim, while chatting the GM in his office, he suggested we try to get the Acura Regional Rep on the phone for a little con call, if I promised to just listen. I did. I think he was expecting to get the Rep's Vmail. But, lo and behold, he answered. Not going to bore anyone with the pleasantries and talk about their respective golf games.

I'm going to paraphrase here, but essentially the Rep knew my case. GM outlined his plan to him. The Rep said he "could do that", but wouldn't. He said something about barely hitting his bonus and couldn't afford to do what the GM planned. Don't know exactly how that worked, but I get the feeling the Rep is on some sort of unit bonus he hit for a lofty check from Acura. Apparently, taking a sold unit out of that "pie" wouldn't net him the bonus, or would reduce it. Not sure about that, though.

The GM pleaded my case again, this time mentioning that I wanted to meet with the Rep. For all intents and purposes, the rep said he didn't have time for such frivolity as meeting with Acura customers/buyers. It was all I could do to scream at him through the speaker phone.

In essence, screw the customer. He's got to hit a bonus, regardless of who gets the shaft.

Game on.

Found out who the principal of the dealer group is (via the GM). They have the Acura dealership, a Chevy dealership, 2 Hyundai dealerships, and a Kia dealership. Called his office (by this time it was about 6:30 p.m. EDT) expecting vmail. He answered his phone directly. Explained my situation. He acted truly concerned and apologized. He believed I had a legitimate beef. He said he'd talk to the GM, HIS Acura rep (who must be different than the Regional guy) and get back to me no later than tomorrow (although, I'm traveling on business tomorrow. Have to go to the airport.

And, NO, I'm not taking the TL to the airport. I'm using a service.

If that doesn't work, I'll find out how to contact someone at Acura's HQ in, which is, I think, somewhere in CA. I'll contact NHTSA, BBB, arbitration board, lemon law, you name it.

I'm convinced this brand new car isn't being diagnosed correctly. And, that both Acura and the dealership are trying to go the cheapest route, not the correct route. Plus, I feel like I got screwed by TLC. In addition to that, the regional rep really pissed me off.

JrcTL

Wow, good work trying to get a resolution to this, and keep us posted on how it works out! Glad to hear you escaped the incident physically unharmed!

DivinDude

All of the Acura 800 numbers are a complete and total waste of time. My dealer knows not to claim them as an 'benefit' to buying an Acura. It's sad because I sat through a 10 min presentation on the benefits of TLC/ACS and when push came to shove, they were totally and completely worthless. Sad really .. but your only hope is to get the dealership more involved in an acceptable solution (which is what I ended up doing)

neuronbob

What a nightmare. Here I thought Acura customer service actually meant something. I guess not. Same thing happened to me with a Dodge Intrepid I bought eleven years ago. Tranny failed in traffic with 625 miles on the odo. Made a huge stink about trying to get my money back or an even trade, but ultimately the tranny was replaced and they sent my on my way. They treated me like dirt, much worse than you, they thought I caused the failure for a short time! I swore I would never buy a Chrysler product again.....and I still won't. While I put another 30k miles on the car with no further problems, it simply wasn't the same after that experience.

Bought my first Acura shortly thereafter.

2Slo4U

I LOVE IT. Right now or very shortly an Acura Rep is going to get worked over by his boss! Acura Corporate reads these forums and they are not going to be happy with that particular conversation being on the "net." Unfortantely, the GM will be getting an ear-full because he let you listen in. KUDOS to him for trying to do the right thing but it will not go over well.

BCocoPop

Wow.. that sound extremely scary. Glad to know that your not hurt.

George Knighton

Yes, I think you can count on that.

paton5g

I love this very informative thread. The results you are starting to get are satisfying, but your experience overall tarnishes my image of Acura/Honda.


Subscribed for the results!

kixo

You asked for the name of an Acura exec. Here is one:

John Mendel
Executive Vice President
American Honda Motor Company
1919 Torrance Blvd.
Torrance, CA 90501-2746

Tel 310-783-2000

Let's join him on LinkedIn!
http://www.linkedin.com/pub/john-mendel/7/912/ba

I would carefully document the Regional Rep's decision-making based on his own personal financial gain, and not what is the best interest of the customer and Acura.

I would also ask to be physically present when your car is being inspected by a regional rep.

Bearcat94

The GM probably isn't real happy that the phone conversation took that turn with you sitting there. Probably hoping the regional guy doesn't get wind that you heard it either.

The Dealership owner you called might bring a strom of crap down on both of 'em by getting involved. Better for your chances in the long run.

Regards the Fuel Pump. Two way to look at it. 1. They're hoping a cheap fix will be enough to make the problem go away; at least for a little while or 2. They're trouble shooting, attacking likely causes one at a time.

IMHO, you should consider filing a NHTSA complaint regardless of your outcome with Acura. You have an opportunity to alert appropriate authorities about a potential catostrophic failure. This is not about what effect it will have on your issue resolution with Acura.

Think how you'd feel if a year from now you read about some guy and his family dying in a accident from a problem that sounds eerily like the problem you had? Or, think about how you felt, on the highway, losing speed, with a semi-truck barreling down on you. If you might possibly keep someone else from being in that situation, wouldn't you want to do that?

Type34

Good job GraphicGuy, stay motivated (although it's tough when on travel).

Keep open communication with the executives and the dealership owner.

I got majorly screwed by my local Acura dealer and it wasn't until I sat down with the owner's son (at a Lexus dealership they also owned) that I finally got some resolution.

The owner will put the fear of in that GM if he thinks it's a problem that needs solving.

Hapa DC5

WOW, I still have no idea why they didn't just tell the tow truck driver to invoice TLC directly and not even have you pay anything out of pocket. Why there wasn't a taxi or something to help you get home?

I understand it's a holiday, it wasn't the closest dealer, but it was closest to your home. They need to turn this around quickly. Now from the dealer's perspective. Sounds like they want to go to bat for you especially after no initial contact.

Let them do what they see fit as far as diagnosis, investigating, etc etc. Life has a weird way of working itself out. Keep fighting the good fight.

Hacura

This is one of those times you wish you had remembered to hit the audio record button on your phone. Hope the rep gets it up the wazoo.

Luke7

With the proper people contacted, I'd be pretty sure that your $300 will be refunded. As for what happened to the car, wait and find out. My ignition switch failed at 70 miles an hour in heavy traffic in my Accord. I could have been killed also. I pulled off onto the side of the road, wiggled the key, started the car, drove home carefully and got the switch repaired the next day. NO=it's wasn't Easter (sorry for that) I didn't present any DRAMA as is going on here. How you deal with adversity shows your true character. Is this how you deal with every situation in life? I have been reading Acurazine for a long time and I've never seen such drama as has been written here before. I'd be dissappointed if my new car did this but stuff happens.
Complain till they reimburse your $300, find out what's wrong with the car, (failures do happen=I know), let them fix it and move on. GEE!

Taketwo

I see one thing that seems to be left our of Graphicguys thread. The dealership has stated that they think it is the fuel pump. They didn't just scratch their collective heads, point and say, "lets try a fuel pump". I am sure the sophisticated diagnostics on the TL led them to a reasonable conclusion. You are still stirring the pot with all the people involved and the fuel pump hasn't even arrived at the dealership yet and no one is going to tear into the engine and look around if it is unnecessary. BUT when they get the fuel pump and put it on the car, if it doesn't fix it, they will look deeper. IMHO, if it is just a fuel pump than good for you. So let them get the car fixed, with the fuel pump or other parts that may be needed.

Once the car is handed back to you from the dealership as trouble free and properly corrected. Then tell them you want to trade it in and you want the deal to reflect a respectable "discount" to account for all this trouble. -Trust me, if they value you as a customer, it's completely within their means.

Mjakaz09TL

iTrader: (7)

Subscribed... all i can say is WOW! Totally changed how i thot of Acura! I keep shakin my head at how the rep said he could but wouldnt over a damn bonus.. SCREW the customer that couldve been seriously hurt or killed.. not to mention others wouldve been involved!

DAMN pisses me off more i think about it! Cannot wait to read about the outcome. Glad you were not hurt man, and i totally sympathize with u in regards to all of this!!

2Slo4U

My thoughts exactly. Get the Audio and then let the Acura Rep know about it. I'm pretty sure his mindset of a "big fat bonus" would be changed to hoping he could "just keep his job!"

graphicguy

Couple of things. First, some have said they wanted me to keep them abreast of what's happening. I'm complying, blow-by-blow. If you guys want me to stop, I certainly will. This is my "drama". As such, won't affect anyone here. So, I understand if people are tired of it. Hell, I'm getting tired of it.

I've thought a lot about if I'm over reacting. We all have our own little reality we play in our heads dictating how we react.

These are all "ifs"....

-if I was convinced it was merely a fuel pump, I might be OK with things. That said, I do have some mechanical knowledge. And, I don't believe it's just a fuel pump. I do believe it's something that may have caused the fuel pump to go bad, but just replacing it means that at some point, in the not too distant future, this will probably happen again. As someone else mentioned, Acura is going through a process of elimination. Service manual says we do this? We do this. That's what we're being reimbursed for. If something happens again, we'll look elsewhere. By the time they get all the perpetrators replaced in the car, I've had a wreck, or worse. The car's now no longer new. And Acura can say that there were several different issues, not just one, which helps their side in Lemon Law.

-if I had been reimbursed for the tow, I might be less aggressive

-if the Acura rep hadn't been such a jerk, I could be more amenable

However, none of those ifs came to pass.

Based on the above, I don't think I'm overreacting. Further, if I pay pay ~$40K for a car, I expect just a bit more than what I've received.

I don't mean to ruffle anyone's feathers here. I'll cease and desist.

benbow

Keep us posted Graphicguy... your saga of poor service should help newly aware Acura executives figure out how to improve their post-sale reputation. They may also get rid of at least one BAD APPPLE at the regional level.

Colin

I don't believe you're overreacting. However, I do believe you're reacting to quickly. The simple fact is, nobody is going to "rollover" and give you a new car after two days. It's not an ice cream cone that you dropped on your way out of Baskin Robbins. They need to determine what the problem is, from there a decision can be made on how to best resolve things for you.

As for getting your towing charge reimbursed, try to understand that the towing operator is an independent contractor. He has guidelines set out by Acura under which he will be paid for his work. It's the same with TLC (as far as I know). Your situation dictates something that is outside of these guidelines. I believe that an exception to the rule will be made, but this is not for the tow operator or TLC to decide. This is why I suggested (two days ago) that you seek reimbursement from Acura Client Services directly.

free598

Keep us posted Graphicguy..did u go check on ur car today

graphicguy

Colin....I did take your advice. I'm letting Customer Service deal with it.

My way of thinking, this is cut and dry. The people involved have the power to make the decision. For various reasons, most of which I disagree with, this isn't resolved. I'm not one to let issues linger. If the issue isn't moving forward, and I don't keep it on the front burner, it won't move at all. They've got $40K of my money tied up (I wrote a check for the car). I'd bet that by now, at least the regional Acura rep wishes I'd just go away. The less he hears from me this point forward, the better, is my guess.

Free...I've actually been out of town on business all day. As I will be tomorrow.

However, the dealer principal did call me a little bit ago. Again, he apologized. Said he just wanted to let me know that he's still working with his Acura contacts. Seemed a bit frustrated with them, but said he still had a couple more he wanted to hear back from. He also said that regardless of outcome via Acura, the dealership will do something. What that something is, I didn't have time to ask him.

I probably won't have any other updates until this weekend sometime.

Colin

I believe that all the issues will be handled at one time and this includes settling up your towing charge. Why is it like this? I don't know. But suppose (for example) in the course of their investigation, they find out that somebody "sugared" your gas tank. In this situation it's not a warranty repair and they are not obligated to pay for your towing charge. Please understand that im not in any way suggesting that this is your fault. I'm just citing an (extreme) example for why things may not happen as quickly as you wish they would.

graphicguy

Colin...I understand what you're saying. But, I'm past the point of playing "what if this, what if that" with them. They're stalling, for reasons I can't quite figure. Are they flying over the fuel pump from Japan? TL's are made not far from me in Marysville, OH. Certainly there's got to be a parts depot there.

Every situation I've ever read about, here and with other manufacturers, the scenario starts out the same......stall, procrastinate, etc. My guess is most manufacturers feel they can wear a customer down, and finally they just give up the fight. That's not me.

This will come to an end, not in 3 months, or 2 months, or even 2 weeks. This will end, one way or another next week. If they try to stall more, I'll turn it over to the NHTSA and let them investigate. I'll write to the Acura VP someone mentioned above. Either another TL will be in my garage, or another brand will.

Those who think I'm being unreasonable will say "I told you so". Those who have had troubles dealing with Acura will get a new ally. Sadly, Acura will lose a customer.....or they'll come through with an apology, my tow charges, and a new car to replace....well.....my new car.

shakedown

so what was the final outcome of this

crxb

graphicguy I'm not doubting your mech knowledge - I know Acura will correct your problem and I hope pay for the tow. this is not a fun situation for you -

but for some owners of a german make - their HPFP (high Pressure Fuel pumps) have failed 1,2, 3 times - - some cars are very low mileage, others haven't failed at all.

just for entertainment ck out this link

http://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=333519

one reason why I bought acura and not the U driving machine

just let the dealer get the pump in and let's see what happens next

good luck

Colin

Good luck with everything

graphicguy

Thanks!

I've had 2 BMWs. I really liked the 335. But, the reports of their fuel pump issues. I even saw one review site that the pump failed (which sent the car into limp mode). It's a pretty wide spread issue. Aside from the large pricing discrepancy between the 335 and the TL, the BMW pump issue kind of put the kabosh on me looking at them further. Plus, one thing you DON'T want to do is to own a BMW out of warranty. Been there, done that...never again!

Acura can fix the pump. I don't think that addresses the cause, however. Pump + ECU + transmission "stall circuit" replacement? That would probably cover anything that could have caused my issues. I keep going back to the service manager's statement...."I've never seen a fuel pump go out on an Acura in 20 years".

They'll try to do fixes one at a time in the hopes that one, or the other, or the other will alleviate the issue. I'm not playing that game with them....not on a brand new car. Plus, the consequences of another failure, I'm not going to tempt fate.

My stance hasn't changed. We'll give it until next week. With that, I think I've been more than patient....and generous. They've got my 40K. Plus, whatever I paid for the 3G I used to have. Wish I could say the same about them.

NJ SHAWD

I think you also need to look at this from another perspective. They wouldn't want to rush the evaluation, in case there is something they are missing. You also have to realize that if everyone who complained about their new cars got a new one, they (and every other manufacturer) would be out of business. This whole thing is very real to you and makes complete sense. They don't know you from anyone, and let's face it; there are some real wackos out there trying to beat the system. You just saw it with Toyota. For all they know, you are one of them. You know you're not, but you need to give them time to put all of the pieces together. If you rush this, you'll be disappointed.

bagbklyn

Very well said, also I don't think you can hold what that service manager said about 20 years with any kind of weight. Acura will say all he is, is a service manager. Hopefully Acura will step up to the plate and correct it. They really can be dissecting your car to make sure everything is ok. My brother has a 335 and is on his 2nd fuel pump. The car did go into limp mode on the highway yeah he was pissed but like others have said its a widespread issue. I doubt there are any BMW owner that has gotten a new car because of this fuel pump issue whether they almost got into an accident.

I do think the way Acura is handling this isn't the right way, but there can be a chance they're trying to cover their ass so this isn't Toyota #2. Like you said by next week if the status is still the same you have the right to officially raise hell and I will be right behind you on line. Acura must realize that you aren't lying because the computer must show that you went from 70 down to 20 in like no time.


Hope everything works out.

brassai

Please sir... DO NOT stop updating us until this is resolved some way or another. Since anyone not interested can simply skip, block, and/or otherwise ignore the thread, I'd have to think that anyone asking for you to stop has a vested interested in you not updating us. More reason for you to keep it up.

And, with all due respect, this is NOT just your problem. It may be one of a very few, it may be a one off, or it may turn out to be the start of something worse. In whichever case, we need to make sure WE follow with each other to protect each other as consumers.

Not to mention.. let's say someone upstairs makes the call... swaps your car out (buy-back, a well priced trade in or whatever), they put it on their loaner line for a while to determine it's fixed, and then sell it as used or CPO. A person or a family are happily driving to Grandmother's house for next year's easter dinner and it happens again with worse outcomes.

Not only would I like you to follow through with the entire story, I'd ask that if the car ends up in the hands of Acura as anything other than a lemon (or anything else that prevent it showing up in CarFax), I'd ask that you seriously consider publishing the VIN number on this site. May just save a life somewhere.

D.

DivinDude

This is precisely the way Acura handled their failed 2G transmission issue .. to the T ... was the driver's fault ... never heard of such thing .. until an newspaper article in the LA Times broke and forced their hand. I went back and forth with so many field reps .. service managers ... and was even asked if I ever drove a car with an automatic transmission before ... Acura Corp services (TLC/ACS) will be your best friend until you challenge them .. then they'll be tight lipped and cover their tracks ever chance they get .. including the field reps (aka: bad apples).

CleanCL

iTrader: (4)

From my experience, every phone call and person you talk to, record the following information:
-Date of call
-Time of call
-Name of the person(s) you spoke with
-Contact information of the person(s) you spoke with
-Request that they send in writing (snail mail) the details of your conversation

This way if you ever have to challenge what someone said, you have proof that the conversation took place. Otherwise if it goes to court, it's your word against theirs.

Bearcat94

Yeah, man, keep the story going.

There may be some discussion, advice, disagreement or alternate points of view, but as long as it's respectful, everyone needs to take it in stride. At the end of the day it's your car and you have to do what you think is best for you.

Of course the final decision is yours - post or not - but I think everyone wants a positive outcome for you.