Lincoln and Acura are both "Tier I" if you use a tiered system, which isn't always accurate of course. They're both upscale but not as prestigious as even Tier II, which some consider to be brands like Cadillac or Lexus, even Infiniti.

 

Lincoln and Acura have their own strong points. Lincoln has lots of technology whereas Acura has things like SH-AWD and their reputation for quality. Both have somewhat controversial new styling, but really their main differences are in their cars' character. Lincolns are more relaxed cruisers versus sportier Acuras.

 

I find it odd that Lexus and infiniti are so superior to Acura when they have the same "luxuries" if Acura doesnt have more than them. The only main thing that sets them apart is RWD. Is RWD the difining line for a luxury vehicle?

 

The problem lies within the fact that the TL has been attacked since the day it was introduced. If all you have done overall is express negativity (constructive criticism) towards the 4G in the 4g forum, then of course your "opinions" will be taken as attacks. You're not contributing anything new and you're only fanning the flames that the 4g owners just want to die down. ALL opinions about the 4g have been expressed, over and over and over again by several people, including yourself. Sales have always been below target EVERY month. Does anyone expect some sort of magical change in sales one month when nothing has been done to change the car itself? This is why the monthly sales thread always turns into garbage in the 4g forum every month. It's always the same opinions, from the same people, at the same time. As if we weren't already sick and tired enough of hearing the same shit day in and out.

I don't own a TL or any Honda or Acura product for that matter. One thing I have noticed is that there are A LOT of 3g owners that are coming into the 4g forums and constantly expressing their negative opinions towards the 4g. It's childish and annoying. How often do you see a 4g owner going into the 3g forum and start talking about how the 4g could hand the 3g its ass on a road-coarse, or how the 4g is more luxurious than the 3g, or how the 4g has so much more technology than the 3g, etc.... You get my point. If a 4g owner isn't adult enough to accept that fact that you don't like their car, then maybe it's time for YOU (not specifically you) to be an adult and just drop it. You don't look any better when you just continue to bicker back and forth. If you don't like the 4g and some 4g owners don't want to accept that, do you really think shoving it in their face everyday is going to change that? So what if they don't want to accept it? Are you really that dead set on making them agree with your opinion, just like you are complaining how they can't accept your opinion? Their opinion is that the 4g is awesome. Why can't you just accept that just like you want them to accept that it's not as awesome as they think? Do you catch my drift? It may seem like the 4g owners are taking things personally, but it looks the same way with the 3g owners who keep making the same comments. If history plays a lesson, the more 3g owners that come in here and constantly rehash the same comments, the more 4g owners will hate the 3g. Why? Well wouldn't you hate something that constantly told you negative things about yourself?

In all due fairness, I frequent the 3g forums and I don't ever recall seeing a 4g owner talking rubbish in there for no good reason. I see A LOT more 3g owners in here than I do 4g owners in the 3g forum. Just as it may be disturbing to you, it's annoying as hell to the 4g members who constantly see 3g owners come in here and talk trash on their car. Call it constructive criticism or whatever you want, it is seen as talking trash, especially when it is constantly repeated. Whether you want to believe it or not, the 3g IS an inferior car to the 4g. The car has been improved in ever single aspect over the 3g (looks are subjective). Better materials, build quality, technology, performance, room, etc... Don't get me wrong, it's not like we are comparing a Honda Fit to an Acura RL, but the 3g debuted in 2003. The 4g debuted in 2008. It would be ridiculous to think that Acura wouldn't deliver a car that is a measurable amount better than what they released five years before. The 4g is a better car whether anyone wants to accept it or not. Having 3g owners come in here and try to downplay that fact makes it seem like some people have a little buyers remorse or jealousy in play here (no names mentioned). Even with that said, it shouldn't be about 3g>4g or 3g=4g or 3g<4g. Your car is your car and you should enjoy it for what it is, not because you feel threatened by the opinion of another person.

I'm not targeting you, I'm just responding to your post because it goes well with what I've been wanting to say for a while now. The 4g forum has appeared to be quite hostile as of late and it really gives it a crappy atmosphere. I'm not saying the non-4g owners should leave. However, it would be nice if the same people would stop giving the same opinions, day in and day out. If you don't have anything new to contribute that you haven't already contributed ten times in the past hour, then STFU! I guarantee that this forum will be a lot more enjoyable and a place where the owners can relax. The 4g has been getting attacked from every single forum outside of here. 4g owners AT LEAST deserve to be in peace in THEIR OWN HOME.

Once again, I am not attacking you. When I say YOU, I don't specifically just mean you.

 

I don't think RWD is necessary, despite what others say. Look to Lexus or especially Audi for proof of that.

Lexus and Infiniti both offer more premium products that Acura cannot touch. The Lexus LS, Lexus LX, Lexus IS F, Infiniti QX, etc. Even the Infiniti M or FX seem to be considered more premium than competing Acuras, likely because of available V-8s.

Part of this as well goes to these companies offering higher levels of technologies and luxuries as well as performance as well. This is also what keeps the Germans on top.

 

 

I don't really care if people came in and made all kinds of negative comments about the 3G. Yet AGAIN the babies are taking it personally.

Oh well, some things never change, and neither the whining nor the negativity will, so this is all pointless as a discussion.

 

you crack me up. Youre as much of baby as everyone else. when someone disagrees with you, you dont stop until you think you win.

And getting the last word doesnt make you any better than the people you are saying are whining. Grow up little guy. Go see the world, theres more to it then your opinion on a forum.

 

No, I do not have ownership experience with any of those brands because I have enough experience in them in general not to buy one based on my opinion and preference. Speaking of knee jerk, that last post kind of looks like one big one and the discussion went in the direction you decided to take it.

I have driven nearly all of the TL's in range competition on more than one occasion. Someone always knows someone else who always has one and it's me you usually see asking to go for a ride or drive it myself. I even work in an establishment and industry that requires valet parking so without giving away too much info on that, lets just say I have plenty of my own opinons on how the TL ranks agianst it's competition be it for luxury or whatever else. In fact just last night for the sake of wanting to be more recently objective and open minded to this discussion, I drove two friends vehicle's for an extended period of time.

The first, a two generations old 740 and another being last gen's 535xi. Neither was the entry 3 series mind you and the level of luxury and refinement over the TL was only marginal at best in both of those cars, not only by my opinion but my colleagues as well, believe it or not. They also confirmed my experiences and also expressed that something like a 3 series, more specifically and also an A4 or C class as well, would be similar to their vehicles' overall luxury experience but at that point they are not on any other level compared to the TL. More like they would have normal variances you see between any two cars.

This only reconfirmed by judgements against these vehicles, great cars in their own right but I could never justify the extra cost on something so subjective. I prefer to be able to measure objectively what it is I am getting or paying for and not something that is measured only by opinion.

As far as the other discussion, who is to say the TL is not already up-market, or at least as up-market as it's in range competition? What makes it up to par, better, or worse officially and not just what that means to you or me or some other person?

Reading between the lines, it's obvious you need someone to tell you Acura is so called Tier 1 or that it is a luxury brand before you will accept that as willingly as you do with other supposed to be luxury brands. When are you going to start thinkig for yourself? If you go to TOV and actually watch Acura's press events from the real source, they talk about smart luxury as something filling the gaps in what is often defined as standard luxury. Highest safety marks and resale, size and performance to dollar, reliability and quailty track record and standard low cost feature content. All of this finally putting the "smart" into luxury.

Although you may interpret it as such, it really has nothing to do with only being semi luxurious. It has to do with a focus on the vehicle as a whole over just what some might consider strictly luxury.

You can attribute what you want to the styling but Acura is still very success regardless of what you think, more successful than your precious Audi here in the states. The "emotional" part of the styling is dead on, I didn't read that there was supposed to be anything more to it than that out of that quote specifically. If you knew anything instead of pretended to, it would be that Acura is going for this design language for a reason be it good or bad and is now starting to tone it down, as part of a "process".

Then there is the other problem, you read these quotes from sources like articles or blogs that also interpret what they mean using (of all the things) their opinions, instead of getting the info from the source they actually came from, as I recommended above.

 

The majority of the diminished view of Acura is that all products can be traced to the Accord platform, while it is a great midsize fwd sedan, probably the best, it just does not carry over to a full sized luxury sedan, body on frame SUV. Also Honda's reliance on the J series motor with comparatively less low end torque than competitors and the power peak high in the rev range. Most luxury sedan purchasers do not want such a peaky power plant, they prefer a fat smooth power band of the trditional V* or new forced induction engines from Audi, BMW & Ford. The reliance on the J series & Accord platform has made Acura what most of the fans on here like a great value compared to the competition, it just does not go all the way to meet the competition at the highest levels.

 

"The buyer for the new TSX V-6 is expected to be older (approximately 38 years old) than the TSX buyer, 80-percent male, 60-percent married, with a household income of about $110,000. Remaining the same is that the TSX V-6 buyer will be extremely brand conscious and eclectic in their tastes and interests. With the introduction of a V-6 powered TSX, Acura will fill a niche in its lineup between the four-cylinder TSX and the all-new TL performance luxury sedan. With the TL moving more upscale following its redesign in the 2009 model year, the TSX V-6 will be aimed squarely at youthful buyers who want a performance-oriented sports sedan in a more personal size."

http://www.hondanews.com/categories/740/releases/5040

"During testing and evaluation, Acura engineers spent much time analyzing and comparing the TL SH-AWD® 6MT to other vehicles in its competitive set. The TL falls in a unique category whereby it has more passenger/cargo volume than vehicles such as a BMW 3-series or Mercedes C-class, yet it is has less passenger/cargo volume than a BMW 5-series or Mercedes E-class. However, based on the engineering goal to build a vehicle that would outperform competitive set sedans regardless of size or price, the TL SH-AWD® 6MT track testing focused on the best handling versions of each manufacturer's model. In all cases, this meant the smaller, lighter models (such as BMW 3-series)".

http://www.templeofvtec.net/articles...&page_number=3 * From TOV but it is Acura's press info.

 

Take that post and apply to yourself.

I'm not the one that goes up in arms when a negative comment is chucked at the 3G.

So in your own words, grow up, if just a little. Not everything is personal, and this makes you a bit of a hypocrite in regards to your signature, which -because it has someone specifically in there as well- makes you look a little hurt in the ol' bum.

Go ahead and make anti-3G comments. As my posting history proves, I don't make long ranting posts regarding 3G haters.

 

You wouldn't know if anyone was making any negative comments about the 3g now would you. Since you became a member in April and over 1,000 posts later, you have never made a SINGLE post in any 3g related forum. Your post history shows that your main focus is on the 4g forum with some light attendance in the Automotive and Car Talk sections. For someone who apparently owns a 3g and has no interest in the 4g, your post history sure says otherwise. Maybe if you put as much effort into contributing to the 3g forums, the car you supposedly own, as you do into the 4g forums, you could actually provide something positive and constructive to members that are more inline with yourself. However, I didn't miss the post a couple days ago where you said you are new to the internet (yeah right). So since you're still "learning" your way around here, I will provide you with a direct link to the 3g forum so you can start contributing there as well; maybe even just one post.

https://acurazine.com/forums/3g-tl-2004-2008-93/

I'm sure that you will find that there are no babies that take things personal there and you will find it more to your liking. Introduce yourself and say hi.

 

I agree with this. However, I would argue that a lot of it is perception and not the fact that it's a middleclass front drive platform. Audi's A4 was considered prestigious and unique from any Volkswagen when it only recently stopped being a Passat cousin, for example.

Audis are arguably up there with MB and BMW now and have front drive platforms unique to themselves.

On the flip side Acuras ARE often viewed as fancy Hondas. Not always a bad thing but the public isn't fooled by the beak-and-AWD treatment.

Smooth and quiet are probably their biggest concerns, but you aren't wrong. Again Acuras just use gussied up Honda engines when they should at least "usually" use something of their own.

True.

 

Not new to the internet itself but forums and internet slang aren't what I'm used to. No need to take everyting fully literal.

I have already voiced the fact that I don't visit the 3G forum. I don't have any problems to ask about. I have the car. No discussion on new trims or upgrades, so there's no real reason to be there is there? I'm looking forward, especially since I want a new car, not a 3G again.

My first posts were in the news before I happened upon the 4G section.

I'm sorry if you have a problem with people who don't stroll around forums the way you think they should.

 

So since you don't frequent the 3g forums because, according to you, you "don't have any problems to ask about... No discussion on new trims or upgrades...", then what are you doing in the 4g forums? You don't even own one and you are clearly not interested in buying one. If your reason for not ever posting a single comment in the 3g forum is because of what you said above, then what exactly is your reason for posting HUNDREDS of comments in the 4g forum? You don't have any problems to ask about or discussion on new trims or upgrades with the 4g either so according to you, shouldn't you not have a single post in here either? So what is it?

 

And Audi can be traced back to VW.... whats your point?

VW still utilizes the VR6 engine and is even going to implement that into the Porsche cayenne but supercharged.

 

It's ironic that you say I have no interest in buying one JUST as I post that I'd be interested in a good MMC model. The technology upgrades and some styling changes (I'm one of the few that are on the fence) could tip it in my favor, along with a 6-speed automatic and some nicer trim.

In case you didn't notice, if I post in the 4G section it's usually in regards to future models or nice modifications like grilles. People with problems or opinions usually, but sometimes, don't get my attention because that doesn't affect me.

So BECAUSE of these new trims that could come out (hybrids, Type-S, MMC, etc.) I actually DO have future things to look forward to. I don't see how you can't understand that, but whatever.

 

By the way just because I don't post doesn't mean I don't read. Just thought that reminder should be out there.

 

lol..none of my posts have taken a personal response towards anyones remarks regarding the 4g. just like the other 4G owners, it gets tiresome really.

i might just add you to my Sig list lol.

 

That wouldn't be representative of our dimishing friendship, would it?

 

It's hard to understand your possible desire to purchase a 2012 TL when the first time I'm seeing it being posted by you was 8 minutes ago. Over 1,000 posts later and you are now mentioning that you may be interested in a TL? You can see where the confusion stems from here now can't you.

 

Visit previous topics. I have mentioned it before.

 

Diminishing? Our friendship is only sprouting into something beautiful. BFF and ever and ever

 

Then as proper friends what's yours is mine, and three 4G test drives are not enough to please some that I have enough 4G experience.

So, hand over em keys.

 

A4-A6 share a platform, R8 has its own platform, A8 has its own platform, Q 7 is its own platform, all are shared across co. lines but the lineup has numerous platforms, not just 1.

 

Gladly. In exchange for your wife

 

Welllll....

 

All of which share a platform with VW. Im not sure youve made your point.

 

LMAO, you know Im not serious. To be honest with you I wouldnt mind letting you drive my TL. I think people who have negative things to say about the car should actually experience it for an extended period of time.

 

Odd. News of the MMC TL broke out two days ago. You had a 1000 posts before that. So now you were interested in the 4g before you found out about the MMC, even being as critical as you are? Well I will be sure to follow your new found enthusiasm for the 4g around here. With this new found enthusiasm, we should expect to see a change in direction with your posts as well.

 

There were 2011 and 2012 TL threads loooooong before the ones from this past week.

I have voiced interest in a Type-S model or a performance hybrid, or an updated SH-AWD with things I mentioned before, OR the next TL, OR a freshened TSX, OR a new TSX.

 

But I don't harbor any negative views on new TLs? The drive of the car is good enough for me. I'd like hydraulic steering but the rest of it is good. Sometimes a car seems great but its appeal falls once you drive it. The 4G is the opposite, but a little more upfront appeal (I want a cool bum, 6-speeds, and a sport button, to say the least) would seal the deal for me I think.

I've complained about multiple things other than those but really there are going to be complaints on a Rolls, so I can get past them.

 

Let me know which VW shares the R8/Gallardo platform, or the A8 platform, the Phaeton had fail written all over it.
My point was that Audi and all other competitors affer numerous platforms that are dedicated to a specific mission, not a whole brand based on one platform, you want our low end sedan, high end sedan or SUV they are all baisically the same thing.

 

That was exactly what I was looking for! Thanks a bunch man, I appreciate it! Excellent reads!

 

How long ago could it have been? You just joined a little more than a couple months ago.

Type-S or performance hybrid model? Both of which are things that Acura has never confirmed for any of it's current models or the NEXT TL which is a long way out or a TSX or a NEW TSX which is also a long ways out? You sure have a lot on your plate don't you. I don't think I've ever met anyone that looks 4 years into the future when car shopping but good for you. Since you are also interested in a TSX, don't forget that they have a forum here also. You can add to the two out of 1000+ posts you have already made in the TSX forums just as much as you add in here. I look forward to seeing your enthusiasm in the TSX forums soon!

 

Actually you've brought up very good points, but you yourself are just adding more fuel to the fire by your long winded post. Also, I find it curious why someone who doesn't even have a Honda or Acura product would be registered and constantly wandering around on 3G and 4G boards for products he doesn't even have and make comments on stuff he knows nothing about.

Anyway, just wanted to point out to you, I have no problem with people not liking the 3G TL or how it drives, etc, they are entitled to that opinion and I've never put anyone down or taken it personally when people have. I did want to point out your hippocracy though. You talk that we 3G TL owners are not giving constructive criticism, but trash talking the TL in our comments, but just a few sentences later you not only proved my point from my previous post you commented on, but contradicted yourself by saying, " like it or not, the 3G TL IS inferior to the 4G TL in every single way, etc"

Sure the hell sounds like trash talking to me and most certainly hippocritical considering what you said just a few sentences earlier. Just wanted to point that out. Anyway, one thing I wanted to just let you in on, is the fact that the 4G TL gained practically no room in it over the 3G TL. The total interior volume and trunk volume increase by only half a cubic foot, despite the fact the entire car grew over 6 inches in length, a half a inch in height, and 1.5 inches in width. In fact, the TL lost front legroom and headroom despite the size increase. Very puzzling if you ask me. But you wouldn't know that since you've never had an Acura or Honda product woudl you?

By the way, if you realize, at least, that is why I commented in this discussion, this specific thread was about June sales and asking why people think the TL is still down. It might be a redundant thread but the mods left it up so we have every right to comment if we want too. But some do a lot more than others.

 

I never said they were confirmed. I said I would be interested in them.

I was originally to buy the new TL Type-S when it was new for 2007, but in the end it was a nice version of what I already had, so I didn't bite and decided to wait for the 09. We saw how that went, and at the present I'm just not totally happy with what I could get in the general price range without going into M37/535i territory, which is a financial stretch. I'm mostly waiting now for the new Regal GS which won't even be out for a year, and that's assuming it's worth a damn like the European OPC version is, or the Tesla Model S but I am a bit nervous of how much new tech is there plus the lack of stability in that company. Technically then I've been searching for a new car for over three years.

Personally I think you're being a little judgmental on my way of shopping for a car and posting. You seem pretty set on telling me how I should be looking for a car (time frame) or where I should post (your kind of owners, 3G).

 

I'm not being judgmental, I'm just trying to figure out what your deal is. I'm not the only one either. I mean, can you blame us? You're here because your waiting for a car that doesn't exist (Type-S or Hybrid), you're highly critical of a car that you are supposedly interested in (4G TL), you have never posted a single comment in the forum of the car you own (3G TL), you don't post in other car forums that you are interested in (TSX), you thought that for what the 4G TL offered was a financial stretch because it was going into 5-series territory yet you are interested in a Tesla Model S which isn't expected to cost less than $50,000 for a base model, and you are also interested in the next Buick Regal GS, another forum which you have no attendance in.

Are you catching my drift? All that said but your attention is still squarely on the 4G? It just doesn't make sense... But I'll give you the benefit of the doubt. My mom always told me to never judge a person by the first 1,000 posts.

 

This thread is done. Not surprising.