Time for a new car...

I've got 137k on my '06 TL.

I'm down to two choices, the 2012 TL Advance (I want to those ventilated seats) and the 2012 Hyundai Azera with Tech package.

Both are very comparable in the equipment department.

After driving both, I think the TL gets the nod from a performance and handling perspective, but the Azera is not far behind. (planning to drive Azera again before I decide)

The Azera really outshines the TL in terms of legroom and trunk space. The new TL trunk is just awful. Very high entry and tapers down with two large bumps from the wheel wells. I feel like I could live in the Azera's trunk without any issue and the rear seats fold down which would be nice to have.

Haven't had enough time to play with the electronics in the Hyundai, but it still has a touch screen which I think I will miss if I go over to the new TL.

The TL electronics just seem to be a minor upgrade from my '06.

Any opinions out there?

Do I go for a third TL in a row, or give something else a shot?

Thanks,
Dave

 

Hyundai vs Acura? Hyundais are nice but they aren't that nice. Been in a Genesis and seen a Azera. I personally wouldn't spend that much money on a non luxury car name.

 

Due to a rear-end accident that did $9500 plus damage to my 2009 Hyundai Genesis 4.6L (V-8) earlier this year, I unexpectedly ended up in the new car market. I was coming up on the end of my lease and had planned to buy the car but that all changed with all of the cutting, welding, painting, etc. + an annoying creaking noise that developed in the course of putting Humpty Dumpty back together again. I drove the Azera Tech several times and found it to be a very compelling product (e.g., fit/finish, room, panoramic roof, ambient lighting, etc.) + experience with Genesis proved to me that they have come a long way from the Hyundai of old. The Genesis was great, albeit a bit sedate/isolated than a TL, but felt like might as well try something different since making a change, which brought me to Acura. I had (and teenage son now drives) a 2004 RL prior to the Genesis + we are on our second MDX. So far, all have been bulletproof. We’ve also had many Accords and Civics that performed similarly. In the course of deciding which way to go, I drove a TL SH-AWD 6MT a couple of times and had I not, suspect I would either be in an Azera Tech or another Genesis. I was also looking pretty close at a Mustang GT which would have been a lot of fun. The Azera does not offer AWD or a manual, otherwise my decision might have been that much tougher. I’m about a month into the TL and am thoroughly enjoying it + doing my own rowing again has been a lot of fun! Hyundai is an easy target for rock throwing, due to some old prejudices (which were legitimate), and must admit I was reluctant at first but my thinking completely evolved after 3 years in the Genesis. Unfortunately, resale value on the Genesis is a little rough but understand Sonatas and Elantras are doing well...will be interesting to see how the Azeras do. Hopefully, this will change. The Genesis is due for a redesign in 2014 so expect I will check it out but for now very happy to have 3 Acura’s in the garage. Good luck!

 

Unless you are looking to step up in size, I would consider the new TSX which appears to be almost identical in size to the 3rd gen TL, but IMO looks better than the 4th gen TL. AND, it now comes with a V6 option. Just a thought!

 

Good review by Pricet!

I have a 2006 TL too and thinking about that next car a little more. OP: have you considered the TSX ? In many ways the TSX is a close fit to our 3G- especially in V6 form. You get the trunk with fold down seats. It's a tad longer than our 3G and about the same interior size. You lose the touch nav screen though.

I'm with Precit on his assessment. The only 4G I would buy is the AWD Tech. The only problem is it's too long for my parking situation and I'm not buying a new house to garage a car.

 

As a former TL owner...3x...and the current owner of a Genesis...I would say that anyone who dismisses Hyundai products probably still thinks in terms of Mopar vs. Chevy vs. those ugly little yellow imports called Honda.

OP the Acura SH-AWD can do things that the Genesis can't do like provide razor sharp handling and pinpoint steering which equals a ton of fun. The FWD I'm not sure about...had a 2005...and it was sporty but the SH-AWD was a cut above.

The Hyundai will provide you with things the Acura will not. I'll use my Genesis as an example but the Azera has even more goodies: adaptive cruise control, electronically controlled steering wheel and seat, adaptive head lights, parking sensors so you don't have to go crazy trying to gauge the distance between a wall and your front end, a V8, RWD, and rock sold build quality.

I sold my 2010 SH-AWD because here in LA where the roads are 3rd world; my TL would thump, shudder and rattle over ever bump. I had 3 rattles at 4k miles. My 2005 was plagued by rattles.
The Genesis goes over it all not serenely....I feel them but I don't hear them and there is no flex or moving parts in the car that shouldn't be moving.

That said; I'm waiting for the next gen Acura because I love the driving dynamics of the TL (if there is still one)...it is a lot of fun to drive and it's even more fun to freak out BMW owners by staying on their ass when they get arrogant. The TL can do that. The Genesis will kick ass in a straight line.
My .02.

 

PriceT - How did you find the electronics / nav /bluetooth in the Azera? I didn't get a chance to play much as I test drove it on my way back from lunch and had a limited time to spend (plan on a more thorough going over next week sometime though). Other than the lack of AWD/MT, neither of which I was planning on getting in a new TL anyway that steered you away from the Azera? I actually would really like the Genesis myself, but I'm a little leery of a RWD car in the snow in NJ.

niebur3 and LaCostaRacer - I hadn't really looked at the TSX, as I had offhandedly dismissed it as too small (I remember looking at it when they first came out, didn't realize they grew). That being said, I would like something with a bit more rear legroom than my 3rd gen TL and the 4th gen seems to offer that.

pimpin-tl - I just want a nice car... both are in my budget, I want to get the one that is going to be best for me overall, I really don't care what badge is on the trunk lid. But that being said, I do like the service experience at my current dealer, valet, not stingy with loaner cars, etc. When I went to look at the Azera, the Hyundai dealer was a madhouse, actually wound up parking at the Nissan dealer next door and walking across the parking lot.

I am also a little jaded by the two transmission failures in my '02 (both warranty) and the one trans failure in my '06 which happened at 73k just outside of the power train warranty. Originally the dealer didn't want to help me out at all, but I called Acura corporate and I think we basically wound up splitting it down the middle... not great, but at least they worked with me some...

I'm probably overthinking this and making myself crazy, but I tend to keep cars for 5+ years, 130k+ miles so I want to make sure I get something I'm going to be happy in for the foreseeable future.

 

My opinion, go with the TL. I've owned many Hyundais and had nothing but problems. I made this same sort of decision on a midsize family car and regretted it (Sonata vs. Accord). They are not engineered the same way Hondas/Acuras are, but they are certainly getting closer. I think you will find that the Hyundai has a lot of neat tech and in some ways they are ahead of most other brands; however, there are a lot of caveats. I haven't been in a car yet that beats the TL's ELS sound system. Touch screens are overrated in cars, as they get dirty, glare a lot (Sonata and Azera), and are difficult to use if you're moving (even for your passenger). The TL's nav may seem outdated next to a touch nav, but the knob works wonderfully for things like "aim and click" destination. As for performance, the TL will beat the Azera hands down. It's faster, handles better, and has better throttle response. On a final note, I have developed a distrust for Hyundai EPA gas mileage ratings as I have not had or driven one yet that even achieves the number. I have had 8 Hondas that have all exceeded the EPA rating by 3-4 miles per gallon. My TL SH-AWD gets 29mpg on the highway. If you get a FWD TL (direct comparison to the Azera) I guarantee you will see 32-33mpg.

Hope this helps with your decision. Don't settle for less because it's cheaper. I went through many cars because of this.

 

In regards to the TSX, I wouldn't recommend it unless you want to save some money and are okay with the four cylinder model. The back seat is much smaller than the TL, the sound isolation is much worse, and the vehicle performance is more mainstream than sports sedan. Don't get me wrong, it's still a great car.

Speaking from experience (I had two 2nd Gen TSX's and two 4G TL's), the TL is more balanced, quieter, bigger, and has more tech options (TSX doesn't have push start, proximity key, or any of the Advance package features). Finally, I strongly do not recommend the TSX V6. It is a tiny chassis outclassed by a lazy implementation of a heavy V6. The vehicle has too much weight on the front end. There are much better vehicles if you want premium performance. The V6 is incredibly fast, but it has body roll and handles worse than the 4 banger. The 4 cyl is much more balanced and playful. It's also cheaper. The TL is a much more balanced V6 big brother.

 

Value = Azera.
Looks = Azera.
Navigation = Azera. (Hyundai's touchscreen is more intuitive than the TL's system)
HFL = Hyundai. (Outbound calls can be made quicker and easier than in the TL)
Performance = TL.

It's a tragedy Acura went away from a touchscreen navigation system.

 

Drove the Azera again tonight.... it really is a great car...

It just felt so disconnected from the road.

Leaning back toward the TL, but I know I'm gonna kick myself at least once a week when something doesn't fit in my trunk....

 

I'm in a similar situation.
I can get a new TL FWD Advanced for $37k (gotta have those ventilated seats too) or I can get an Azera for about $2k less to replace my aging 2007 Toyota Avalon (which has been totally reliable and rattle free for 97k miles so far).

I was really leaning towards the Azera and maybe even a Genesis but I know two people with a Genesis and they both had to have their transmissions replaced. Plus, they both had a ton of rattles even with less than 50k miles and their rapid depreciation makes them hard to sell without getting screwed. I don't think I'm quite ready to trust Hyundai yet.

I'm honestly waiting for the new 2013 Avalon too see how good it is. That would be a much better car than any Hyundai. It'll be either that or a TL for me. There's not much else out there that I'd trust with my hard earned dollars.

 

Interesting... my dealer came up with $39k for the same car. (granted it was his off the cuff price when I wasn't ready to buy, good to know I should push further.)

I was also contemplating going AWD. Not sure if it's worth the extra money, but I have gotten my FWD '06 stuck in the mud and snow before, so it would be nice to have... besides the torque vectoring sounds fun!

 

OMG...if you can afford the SH-AWD, do NOT miss out! It is the best feature of my TL...period! The only drawback is that it will be a little bit more expensive to maintain and there has been "some" issues with the so called propeller shaft on some TL. But OMG, once you get used to the capability of the SH-AWD, you will wonder how you ever drove a car without it.

I know most people never trust the weatherman..don't trust me on my forecasts I can live with....do trust me on this one

 

I own a Genesis and have been on the Genesis owners forum for a pretty long time..Google it to find it....and I have never heard of anyone having a failed transmission or rattles.

The tranny on the 09-11 is the German made ZF used by many leading brands and supposedly bullet-proof (Hyundai didn't cut corners there) and this year is thier 8 speed. The only issue is the slow down-shifting (when you have 385-429 hp a more responsive tranny is appreciated).

This is the most solid and rattle free car I've owned.

Now the despeciation could be a problem and maybe I'll take a hit but man if you live with really bad roads this car makes life a lot easier.

 

I got my quote from Acura 101 West in Calabasas, CA. Put in a fake name and email address and you can see prices for all their cars right on their web page which is pretty convenient. They seem to be really agressive compared to other dealers and I'd use their price as a starting point.

 

Submitted a request for quote online with a dealer near my office:
36.5k for FWD Advance
39.7k for AWD Advance
Now those are numbers I like!

Looks like SH-AWD is in my future...

Transmission problems on an Acura TL??? I just can't believe that :-)

But I must go on record right now, if I have a tranny failure on what is to be my third Acura (2 died in my '02, 1 in my '06) I will NEVER buy another Acura/Honda product. Which would be a shame, because I really would like to get the CBR600 I've been lusting after since high school someday.

Dave

 

Its not really the "transmission" per se but the propeller shaft.....

 

True, I'm being lazy and lumping all "the crap that gets the power from the engine to the wheels" into the transmission category...

 

[QUOTE=2002TLSNavi;13823254]Submitted a request for quote online with a dealer near my office:
36.5k for FWD Advance
39.7k for AWD Advance
Now those are numbers I like!



I just got an email from Acura 101 and they dropped the price down to $36,400 plus TTL for the TL FWD Advanced. That's about the same as you got and a pretty good deal actually. It's going to be tough to resist. I'm going to see what their lease numbers look like. I might have to get one since the new Rush album is coming out and I want to crank it up on ELS.
BTW, I'm putting this out there for other people so they get similar offers and don't over pay.

 

As I said before, I just spent 3 years in a Hyundai Genesis and it was as solid, tight and quiet/rattle free as a bank vault. I guess that's part of what made the post accident repair creaking noise especially irritating! There was also a question about RWD in a northern climate. The first winter I had it was spent sliding around on horrible OEM Dunlop Sports..some of the most terrifying driving I've experienced in 35 years! The second winter I put on a set of Michelin XIce's and it was a night and day difference. I became a true believer in merits of snow tires and the traction they provide after that...no need to fear RWD with good set of snowshoes on it! In my opinion, the weakest link in my Hyundai experience was the service department but thankfully did not spend much time there. I was especially frustrated when they decided to drop their loaner program without notice despite that being one of the selling features when I decided to get the Genesis (after becoming accustomed to it with Acura). As far as Azera vs. TL, I agree that while the Azera is more feature packed, the TL is more of a "drivers car" at least in the SH-AWD format that I was comparing it to. I'm a happy former Genesis owner but also thoroughly enjoying my new TL!

 

Pricet...I agree that Hyundai has come along way from its "Pony" days. In fact, I would almost argue that Hyundai is almost at the point (if we are not there yet) that we'll look back and say that this is the generation of vehicles that turned Hyundai around. Time will tell. If we go back and see what Honda/Toyota were back in its early days and no one would even taken them seriously...my how times have changed.

Could this be where Hyundai is now,,,,and in about 15 years from now, maybe TATA will be where Hyundai is now? Only time will tell but after driving a 2012 Hyundai Accent over the last month (as my $hit car when it rains), I must say that I am quite impressed with its fit and finish and built quality FOR THE PRICE....

 

I think the corner has been turned Hyundai/Kia is now the 3rd largest car company in the world.

 

Drove a G37x tonight, awesome car, but...

Its a bit smaller than the TL, no ventilated seats, no blind spot warning, and no torque vectoring, and can only program the nav via voice when moving (a big pet peeve of mine). Better trunk in the G, but the seats still don't fold down.

So, I decided on the 2012 SH-AWD Advance

Either Graphite/Ebony or Forged Silver/Ebony depending on what they can find (only had White/Taupe on the lot)

Hopefully they find one quick....

 

I must add, It's hard to argue with Hyundai's warranty. Talk about a company who isn't afraid to stand behind their product. Like BEAR-AvHistory said, Hyundai is top tier these days.

 

Your post illustrates why you have closely review the cars you are interested in and form your own opinion:

- smaller than TL. That's a positive in my book. Turning radius of G is smaller. Turning radius is important to me, at least.
- no ventilated seats. Tried them hated them, but they are available in the coupe.
- no blind spot warning. Not a make or break decision for me.
- no torque vectoring. This is a positive. I wanted the RWD bias.
- Can only program nav via voice while moving. Funny, another poster complained you couldn't program the nav via voice while moving. Oh well, to each their own. Plus I'm not sure your statement is entirely true.
- Rear seats don't fold down. I must admit, that would be really nice.

- G is faster

 

OP have you test driven/researched the new Lexus GS 350? Its a bit more pricey than a SH-AWD, but I think if I were in your shoes right now I'd give it a serious look before making a decision.

 

I don't call $15K a bit more. lol.

 

Based on some expert commentary from fourm regulars here I think $10K is the semi-official fourm limit for a bit more pricey.

 

my bad, $15K would be on the high side of a bit more, I was thinking F sport package GS was right around $56K MSRP? TL SH-AWD Advance around $46K?

 

You are so right Weather . My 2012 tl is my first AWD and I will never go back to a FWD.