Ac Man

My thing is, why don't they just use an aftermarket company like Pioneer or Sony for their sound/speakers? It would be cheaper than using Bose, who is extremely overrated by the way. They could get better performance, and spend less. Everybody wins!

FiveLiterCheater

I think you're being fooled by muddy, uncontrolled bass and tinny highs in other sound systems, which is usually what impresses most average folk. I usually listen to rock or trance, and it sounds amazing. I usually keep the bass @ +3, treble @ +5, and the sub at +1. I did car audio for years, i've seen what other companies put in their cars...trust me, you're not really getting anything better in a Lexus or Infiniti. In fact, you should see the crap they put in the Lex unless you get the ML system. Don't even get me started on Infiniti.

Ac Man

And that's a major problem, these are luxury cars that you're talking about and they're jerking us with sub standard equipment. It pissed me off when I traded in my '03 Accord for my '05 TL. I had an aftermarket sound system in the Accord and loved it. Went to the Acura dealer for my TL and the dude played me the sample DVD-A disc that comes with the car, which didn't have tracks on the disc to really show off the system, and I thought "You can't be serious". He talked about how it was a premium system and was "Bose", yeah right! I still love my TL, but I had to swap out all the speakers, sub and amplifiers because I was not satisfied with the stock sound. I've spent alot of money to get the sound I want, on top of already paying for a so called premium stock system. Everyone has certain features and qualities that they want in the 4th gen TL, for me it's a great sound system with all the technological advancements that other car companies have (40 gig hard drive, full ipod integration, great display, USB ports, etc.) Sure I'm not going to complain if it also has 300+ hp, SH-AWD, intelligent key entry, push button start, etc. But at the top of my list is the sound, because the rest of the car is fine, and the above mentioned features are probably a given anyway. I don't want have to spend more money AGAIN when I upgrade next fall. Give me a good sound system, plus the extra hp, SH-AWD etc., and I'm good!

sho_nuff1997

iTrader: (2)

you are comparing an aftermarket system to a stock system. apples to oranges, my friend. of course coming from an aftermarket sys, the tl sys will sound inferior.
to me the tl system sounds great, esp w/ a DVD-A playing. It doesn't distort when you turn it all the way up and it is very loud.

Vanilla_Gorilla

Come on, seriously!?!?!?! You might as well have just quoted him as saying that all Honda/Acura's will fly...in the near future.

rksokol

That's one dude making a statement about production that will occur 18 months later. There's plenty of "one dudes" running their mouths around my office. Let's just wait and see...

Ac Man

I get what you're saying and I understand that a regular stock sound system can't compare with aftermarket ones. But when we're talking about premium sound systems that would lead one to believe that it's comparable to aftermarket equipment. Don't market/advertise your sound system as being premium when it's not. If a standard sound system has paper speakers, i'd expect a premium system to be plastic 3 or 4way speakers with clear highs, etc. I'm not saying that the stock sound is total garbage or even terrible, but when I'm told/read that my stock sound system is premium, that's what I expect it to be.

I will give Acura credit though, because they have improved the sound in the new MDX and RDX, much more power and the bass sounds really good. The speakers sound clearer also, I hope they use these systems in their new cars and not just the trucks. But enough about the sound, because at the end of the day, if the '09 TL doesn't look good, whatever improvements made to the sound and anything else won't matter. I just pray that it doesn't look anything like those concepts that were shown last year, especially that batmobile looking one .

Acura concerned me when they said the concepts were a glimpse of the future direction of their designs, I'm not feeling the sharp edges, it looks okay on the CTS but I don't think that's the direction Acura needs to go in. I really liked the Sports 4 concept that was shown awhile back, and hope the TL takes designs cues from it. But then again, that was a Honda concept so I doubt Acura will any more of Honda's concepts and designs now that they have seperate design studios. We shall see.

ugajoshnic

We've had alot of discussions about platforms and for some reason everyone outside TL drivers hates the fact that the Accord and TL share a platform. I dont really care because even if some of the competition does change their platform they are still very similar platforms, so you might as well save the cost. Either way I'd pay an additional 1,000 on my next TL for a platform that is somehow modified however insignificantly just to shut people up. It seems I may get my wish. Over at Temple of VTEC some people are saying dealers have said Acura will be starting a new platform with the upcoming TL.

ugajoshnic

Acura doesnt even have a press conference scheduled for the Detroit Auto show! I would have thought they would have released at least some info on the new TSX, the MMC on the RL, the TL, or done something other than release a statement saying they will have diesel in 2009. Very dissapointing. They are gonna leave us in the dark so long we head towards someone elses light!

krio

Well, we got some news...

Acura will introduce the new i-DTEC clean diesel engine to the North American market in 2009. The i-DTEC engine reduces noxious exhaust emissions while boosting power and fuel efficiency. A combination of optimized combustion chamber design and reduced injection time results in a clean, quiet engine that delivers excellent performance for an enjoyable driving experience. In addition, the i-DTEC engine meets the ultra-stringent U.S. EPA Tier II Bin 5 emission standards without the on-board storage of urea.

The i-DTEC clean diesel engine is on display exclusively in the Acura booth at the North American International Auto Show and will be utilized in an Acura vehicle to be named at a later date.

krio

It looks like Acura would need a better marketing strategy in the future.
We got a 2007 without any news, only rumours and some photo spyes. Nothing.
In 2008 we will get all togheter the new TSX, the big restyling of the RL and the new TL.
In one year.
Detroit is past already for Acura.
We have Chicago and New York.
Geneva is for the Accord-Tsx.
A clever car maker, with a good scheduled program, had been presented:
TSX concept - Detroit in jenuary.
RL - production - Chicago
TSX production - New York
TL - Concept - New York.

ALL the best auto makers in the world trying to keep busy the minds of their owners. Photso, new models, presence at almost all the best auto show during the year (look at Audi, BMW, even Lexus)...

Converted

Although those spy shots have "cladding" on the car... you can still see the overall shape. I think it looks like crap, and hope that's NOT the shape when it comes out. Looks too much like a G35, or GS, or something... not the sexy lines of the 3G that we're used to.

Plus, the whole "monster grille" design that's been started on the new RDX/MDX will NOT have the same appeal on a sedan, so lets hope they don't go overboard.

dwest1023

Obviously, you have not heard the sound system in the RL. It is "one" of the best "stock"sounding I have heard in any car.

ugajoshnic

Anyone know anything about the diesel engine? How much would that hurt the performance of a vehicle? Probably a TSX. I'd love more milage with the same performance but I would guess a diesel sacrifices alot of performance.

Skrewologist

Some of you make this board depressing to view with all of the complaining.

halfaznguy87

HAHAHAHAHA

Look going diesel doesn't mean your loosing performance.. A long time ago it did. Look at BMW, MB, and Audi they have been doing a good job making diesels that do good on performance. Acura has been known for always including that aspect in their cars.

All this means is better MPG..

Skrewologist

Nah not so much that I was referring to. I was talking about all the crying on page 27

Converted

So when somebody has an opinion that's different than your own, and not PRAISING the TL, it's considered "crying" now?

Saying it already looks like it could be VERY ugly is almost fact more than opinion, at this point...

timmahh

To further comment on your reply - the number of watts on a sound system means shit these days, I have a Harman/Kardon 6.1 system, it doesn't have thousands of watts, but it doesn't need it. There's a fantastic write up somewhere about the whole thing, but to sum it up, what will sound better - 1 paper speaker with 1000 watts, or 1 precision engineered speaker with 50 watts?

Skrewologist

I totally understand this board is very opinionated.

Converted

Well, it's the internet... pretty much every board in existence is the same way... lol

gauravp123

I'm usually not with this stupid, but in this case:

timmahh

I'm so not stupid

blader

Sacrifices performance? If anything, it would be a performance boost. One word: TORQUE. Its no secret that most honda\acura motors lack torque. I came out of a 2003 Acura CL Type S modded with everything except a blower. On a dyno it put down 223 HP and the torque was lower than that. I was happy to move on to something that puts down more torque than horsepower, which is the way it should be. Audi is doing great things with diesels. Infact basically all of the german car companies, when they start to go hybrid, they will be going diesel hybrids. Todays diesels aren't like diesels of the past. They run quiet, clean, reliably, and efficiently. Audi is doing great things with diesels. their LMP1 endurance race car, the Audi R10 TDI, was the first ever diesel car to win either the 12 hours of Sebring or the 24hrs of Le Mans, which was its maiden and second race after its official unveiling. To date, it has only lost one race ever. Its 5.5L V12 pumps out about 700hp and 811ft\lbs of torque from 3000 to 5000.

Most of the european market loves diesels, we seem to be the only country that hasn't adopted them (Same with manual's and wagon's but that's for another discussion). Audi has a few more diesels coming to this country for the new A4 (which I would love to have), and they have a GREAT V10 twin turbo diesel available in the Q7 SUV. They are about to release at the detroit auto show their new production supercar, and the first ever production diesel super car, the R8 with a V12 twin turbo diesel making 500hp and 738 ft\lbs of torque at SEVENTEEN HUNDRED AND FIFTY RPM! that's practically off idle. I'd love for my next car to be an A4 with a 3.0L turbo diesel. I love the torque of my S4 and dont think I could move on to a car without it.

Again, I think Acura moving on to a diesel motor would be a performance benefit rather than a hurt. I'd take a diesel over a high horsepower low torque acura engine any day. :P

ugajoshnic

I hear what your saying, but the new 335d from BMW is indeed slower than the 335i that it is modeled after. It gets better milage, but at the sacrifice of price and 0-60 speed. Also, I believe the R8 is also slower as a diesel model, though 40-60 might be faster.

evantec

I think the big obstacle in the US was emissions. (I don't think Europe's standards are as strict.) Now that cleaner diesel fuel (low sulfur?) is available, automakers can sell diesels and they will still meet those emissions standards. So we're going to start seeing more of them. I just saw a review of the Mercedes BlueTec, and it sounded good.

What's great about diesels is the range -- with a standard tank of fuel, it sounds like you could go 500 miles.

Re which Honda/Acura models get the diesel, I'd heard Honda is looking to replace the discontinued Accord Hybrid with some other technology. So I'd guess the diesel fits that category.

On the Acura side, it's hard to say which model (if any would go diesel). Since the TL is like the Accord, you could argue the TL, but I'm not sure they'd want to risk offering it there until they had worked-out any issues with their engine. But I could see them putting it on the RDX (which currently uses a turbo-charger to boost its power).

Or maybe it will wind up on the Honda RidgeLine to give it more street-cred as a 'Diesel Truck', or conversely make it seem more green! At the very least, the torque could increase its towing/hauling capacity.

blader

With all due respect; are you insane? Number one, the diesel R8 has not even been released, nor confirmed yet (although will be at the detroit auto show happening in less than a week), so I dont know how you could speculate that it will be a slower model. Second, are you serious? It will be sold above the V8 R8 and will completely eclipse the performance of it. We're talking 80 more horsepower and almost double the torque of the current R8.

Current R8:
HP: 420 at 7800RPM
Torque: 317 from 4500 to 6000RPM

R8 TDI:
HP: 500 at ?RPM
Torque: 737ft\lbs at 1750 RPM

Its more than double the torque practically off idle. Horsepower is really nothing. Its a marketing number because its normally higher than a torque value (even though it shouldn't be). Horsepower numbers sell cars. TORQUE numbers are what makes an enthusiast happy. Horsepower is a product of torque. Torque is the force at which the wheels are turned and what gives you that gut feeling of acceleration. Its essentially what moves the car. The projected 0-60 numbers for the R8 TDI are going to be around four seconds dead, possibly high 3's. The current R8 is 4.4. I have no doubt the R8 TDI will reach a high 3. My S4 achieves high 3's with 400whp and 450wtq. Not only will 40-60 be faster, but anything to just about anything will be faster also.

I dont have any experience with the 335d because I'm not a bmw fan but it makes almost 125ft\lbs of torque MORE than the 335i, and only 35hp less. 0-60 doesnt mean much to me, I'm sorry if it does to you. You'll feel that extra down low torque during normal driving which will certainly make it feel like a more powerful car. 0-60 isnt everything.

C P R

Stupid me....I accidentally clicked on this thread thinking it was about the 09' TL...

ugajoshnic

I dont mind the conflicting opinion. In fact I want it. Motortrend lists the current R8 2008 at 4.1 for the 0-60. http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/...911/specs.html
Automobile magazine lists the R8 TDI at just over 4 seconds.
http://www.automobilemag.com/auto_sh...ept/index.html
That seems pretty close to me. I have become interested in cars late in life and would love a combination of fuel economy improvement and performance. I was always a SUV kinda guy until I got fed up with 14 mpg on my AWD 4x4 and traded up to a TL. Now, I'm a changed man. I see what your saying and I want it to be true, but based on what BMW says and the specs on the audi are saying it is not. I would love a more powerfull TL with better fuel economy through a diesel. I just am not seeing how it would work yet. More importantly I may be looking at the wrong specs - for all I know 0-10 sucks on a diesel (which hardly even happens at a stop sign), but 10-90 kicks major butt! I just want to better evaluate the information as we recieve it.

dtech

I agree with Converted.

S PAW 1

This thread is now one year old. Xpditor started by saying that we are holding our breath. Do we know any more about the '09 than we knew then?
Notice the face is blue due to lack of oxygen.

ggesq

iTrader: (1)

Let's keep this discussion focused on the 4GTL mmmok?

darksom1

^ Hahaha...Germane, not German...right "G"?

Me personally, what difference does it matter about the HP & audio? Aren't we just gonna mod the damn thing anyway no matter how they build it?

ggesq

iTrader: (1)

EGGGSACTLY

havenlock

Agreed.

blader

I think the battle we're arguing here has to do with differing "magazine" opinions and different methods of testing. Audi's OFFICIAL stance on the current R8 is a 4.4sec 0-100km\h, or 62.14mph (which is also a difference, a small one, but a difference nonetheless. Audi rates in metric because they are german, obviously, and most american car mags rate 0-60.)

Then again, Audi is known for understating. Their official spec for the RS4 is 4.8, yet just about any magazine you read will state it at 4.3, a half second difference. The same is true for the current R8, apparently they are achieving .3 seconds faster than the Audi official time, which is not uncommon.

According to this article, it appears Audi is officially stating the 0-100km\h of the TDI at 4.2sec. Assuming they are understating again (and why wouldnt we), that should in reality put it around a 3.9 or less.

When you say 0-10 sucks on a diesel, I think your missing the root problem. Its not the fact that 0-10 sucks on a diesel, its the fact that zero-10 sucks on a TURBO car. Every diesel motor on the market runs some sort of a turbo. Regardless of how small of a turbo you are running or even if you are running twin, or how many cylinders you have to spool it, it still needs to achieve boost (turbos can spin up to 150,000RPM, it just takes time). This also has a large effect on 0-60. Coming off the line, its impossible to build boost because there is no load on the engine. Even if you are holding the RPM's high, you are still in vacuum on the boost guage. So at launch, its as if you are launching a lower compression naturally aspirated motor. This is where the current V8 R8 has its advantage, or any NA car in 0-60; it has its torque available instantly. However I can assure you once the turbo reaches boost and the torque kicks in, you are hauling. I have two small K04 turbos on my S4, the torque they provide is excellent, but even with the revs building fast in 1st and 2nd there is still an apparent lag. Its just the way it is. I dont mind it, and actually kind of like it. The car is very nice to drive around out of boost, plenty of power, and gets very decent mileage when driven normally.. but if I decide to step my right foot into the 24psi of boost, she certainly sucks gas but hauls serious ass.

ragin

The 2.2 diesel will almost certainly go in the TSX. The fact that it will go into an Acrua first is confirmed. See the Detroit auto show announcements and related speculation. 3.7 for the 09 TL?

krio

Interesting thinking about the introduction of Diesel in USA.
Maybe it's a hint to a not so far launch of the Acura brand in Europe, after the Infinities and Lexuses...?
The Lexus too got a 2.2diesel for the IS220d in Europe, and the Honda Accord has a very good one 2.2d engine...

whitetiger5

X2

Ac Man

You're right, but for once, wouldn't you like to buy a car where you wouldn't have to mod the car to death? Some mods are a given because no car company is going to manufacture a car off the assembly line just the way we want it. I don't know about you, but i'd like to save some money here and there. Wouldn't you like to save $500 - $1,000+ on new audio equipment for a better sounding system, or $2,000+ for engine components to get extra HP? If we get these things from the start, then you can spend that money on, kits, rims, light bulbs and whatever else makes your heart content.