Mug

I've been trolling around looking for information on lock lugs with very little luck. I've seen what everyone has been using but haven't seen anyone using open end lugs. Is there a reason for this? I would think they are more secure since the spline style allow for a standard socket to fit over the lock.

The open style requires a hex type tool or key to release which I think is much more rare but I could be wrong. It also provides a uniform look since they are all the same style. Here is an example of the open end:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/TUNER...item1c1bf83baf

Are the "keys" to these open end style lugs not as secure or is there another reason I haven't seen them used?

NJ SHAWD

The biggest problem with open end is the rust.

jimsta

iTrader: (1)

Alot of people use the open end lugs, especially extended ones cause they stick out and look nice.

But like NJ SHAWD stated, it's cause of Rust, I'm in NYC with salt, rain, snow and all that other bad stuff so I stay away from the open ended.

Mug

I had some in the past on summer rims and the rust never bothered me. Are they as secure as the other lock lugs though?

ionojimbo

i didnt even consider rust on an open ended. but i have closed end lugs and and i belive my locking lug is a different shape from the rest

jwr0ng626

iTrader: (1)

my gf has had open ended lugs on her car for yrs and no rust prob. But we live in cali so that can explain it lol

I'll prob go with these too as the key is long and slender to prevent damage from gunning (rather than using sockets)

Mug

I ordered these last night. They are made by Gorilla Automotive and Summit states they are not open end design. I'll take pics when they come in. It would be nice if they were closed (halfway down), so no rust, and have the security of open end hex style lugs. They also look like they actually have a key and not just a large hex pattern.

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/GOR-20633/

Mug

I received them today. They are not closed so rust may be a problem. They are a "lock" type in the sense that the key has it's own number so I assume there are many different keys available. Meaning, someone can't buy this kit and use the key on my kit.

If rust is a problem what's wrong with wiping silicone on the studs including the tip before mounting? Assuming the rust is from the studs and not the lugs. Currently I use an anti-seize on my lugs. That alone might work too. I think it would wear off the tip of each stud over time though.

H23Accord

iTrader: (8)

I had wondered about open ended as well but my first thought was anything open leaves the ability for stuff to get in there especially the elements. I'd be interested in seeing what you come up with the counter the negative effects though. Maybe change my mind on open ended.

49er

I have the open ended ones on my Enkei wheels. Not happy using the tool to get nuts off but like to know why?

TripAcez

do tell

Mug

Update: I had to remove one of my wheels a few weeks ago. They key is in really bad shape. No problems installing the lugs, but only after 5 lugs were removed, the key is so badly bent, that I don't think I'll be able to take off the rest of the lugs . I've ordered a set of closed end lugs for next season.

jimsta

iTrader: (1)

Wow...Thanks for the update... I can't imagine the keys to be the problem. Which brand did you get, cause that can also be a quality issue.

Mug

Gorilla 20633 Hex Socket. I have six more lugs to go. Two huge scratches on my rims now from pulling the fucked up key from the lug. I have no other way to get it out. I'm taping up the rims now so I can get the key out without scratching. I'm also filing down the key because it's so bent, I cant get it in the lugs anymore.

Mug

Just fucked up the third rim. Through masking tape.

Mug

Here's the first scratch:


This is how you remove these lugs. Remember, this is the first time I've removed them, 100 foot pounds.


And the third scratch. This was through three layers of tape:


I feel like a retard but holy shit, there is no way to get that lug off the only key I have. I guess I'm getting a fresh coat of clear this winter.

jimsta

iTrader: (1)

Ouch man, sorry to hear that, you should complain to gorilla and see if they can send you a new key for free so you can un-install the lugs.

Horditruck

iTrader: (1)

those rims are soooo shiny =)

Mug

They were shiny. The lugs are off and in the trash. They are never going back on.

I hate cars

I run open lugs with the studs sticking through the nuts as required by the rules in the other car. No problems ever with rust. The fastener is overall stronger with threads sticking out past the nut 1.5 times it's diameter. This is part of the reason the NHRA requires open lugs. I've had them on the car for at least 10 years with zero problem. Not that it matters on a TL but at least you're getting some performance benefit out of them too even if it's never realized.

geezr98

I have open lugs n have rust how can I clean or remove rust?!

mrsimeon

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Why did you torque the locks so much?

That does not seem right,,

100ft/lbs?????

I did not look at the service manual but I would do them tight. Then another 2/10 oc a turn, then check them all again.


Your key probably got destroyed and twisted out of shape.

swoosh

iTrader: (5)

torque specs for the stock lugs are 82 ft/lbs.....

I remember one time around I tightened the lugs tooo tight and when I went to take em out the stud got bent....and this is coz of too much force using a key....and i have closed end....

so yeah....dont tighten them too hard specially when using a key...

guitarplayer16

iTrader: (8)

damn my mechanic tightened my lugs to 100 or 95 ft/lbs lol

swoosh

iTrader: (5)

^^^ i dont wanna get flamed on this but my ex girls brother tightened my lug while i was working on the other rim....

he stood on the bar to tighten the lug...he is 180 lbs....

lsimmons

^^ Haha... Sorry not funny. Even if I didn't know anything about cars, standing on the lug bar sounds like a bad idea.

I hate cars

For those with rust issues, buy higher quality lugs/studs. I've run ARP hardware all these years and never had rust issue and my studs stick out a good inch past the lugnuts.

As for torque, refer to the manual even when using aftermarket nuts. The torque requirement is determined by the stud, not the nut.

swoosh

iTrader: (5)

hahah yeah it was def funny when i saw him doing that....kinda mixed emotions....wanted to shake him up and say "really?" but then i was like baah i bet a 16 year old wont know better....

I get my tires/wheels balanced, rotated and my car aligned at Firestone (Lifetime shizzzz )....they double check the torque and have the floor manager do it as well (some one sued em a while back for this) and since I am always in the bay (cant let the car outta my sight)....he checked the torque spec on the sheet they have and it was 82 ft/lbs....I go by that....

Bearcat94

FWIW, the Service Manual ('04) says 108 Nm or 80 lb-ft .... well, it actually says 79.6 lb-ft, but


The problem is when someone (Gorilla Larry at Billy-Bob's Tire, Lube & Down-Home Bar-b-Que) tighten's 'em way over the spec. Resulting in busted wheel locks, snapped studs and warped rotors, for example.

swoosh

iTrader: (5)

^^^ hahaha experienced that as well....

got my tires from this mexican dudes shop...150 for all 4 installed and balanced.....the guy used an impact on my wheel locks....snapped the metal inside the key....

well thanks for correcting me...I always go by 82 ft/lbs....good to know its 80 ft/lbs...I will double check it on my 05 (only coz u said FWIW LOL)...

Bearcat94

No, no, I didn't mean to "correct" you - 80 lb-ft; 82 lb-ft, 2%, meh, no difference.

I meant to support you with the number from the SM; especially compared to 100lb-ft.

I hate cars

I'm usually a very nice person but when I would get new tires on the GN I would stand there and watch them run the lugs up by hand and the use a torque wrench on them. Telling them to use a torque wrench never worked so standing over them was the only way.

I had to take one of the company trucks to get new tires and watched the guy not only run them up with an impact without a torque limiter but he started them with the impact as well. It was a company vehicle so I stood there smiling but I have to wonder what goes through their heads to make them decide saving 5 seconds per lug is worth the potential stripping, warping, breaking, etc. I did that for a living when I was young and it took breaking one stud off and having to pull the axles out to repair it to break me of that habit.

guitarplayer16

iTrader: (8)

Okay that's it I'm gonna go in the shop Monday to get the lugs properly torqued to 80lb-ft.

(I have access to air tools, hoist, torque wrench, impact driver, etc everyday for free)

swoosh

iTrader: (5)

^^^ hahaha....

you bet...I stand in the bay while they do the work on my car and
WORK = rotation/balance/alignment...thats all...everything else I do in my car port

but i completely agree with you IHC....barely takes 30 seconds more per lug....

the first time I went to Firestone, he actually hit the lugs with impact when i told him dude WTF....and he was like "I will finish off with a torque wrench"....i stood there looking at him like "really?"....since then he knew i was right in the bay everytime my car came thro....he does everything to my liking and i bring him lunch everytime i go there....win win situation

and yeah the chic who works there knows I take it to this technician ONLY....and she was nice enough to come by and give me her safety glasses....