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Just lowered my TL (wheels spacers or camber kit)?
I couldn't really find the answer to my questions so here goes:
I lowered my TL on Tein Basis, (don't mind the bumper being off, waiting on my headlights from JnC). I've yet to dial in the ride height, I think I will drop the back another 1/4" to match the front so it's flush with the fender.
Lowering the car obviously produced some negative camber, i don't know how much yet as the car hasn't been aligned but I am assuming around -2 degrees. I am ok driving with that amount of camber, however I am trying to figure out how to resolve the issue of my wheels being too "inside" the fender.
Obvious answer is to get spacers (running 8" a specs), but I was thinking if I got camber kits front and back I would essentially get a similar result as a spacers with the wheel being more vertical it would bring the top of the wheel closer to the fender (which is all I want). In all honesty I don't like how cars look with spacers, as my goal isn't for the entire wheel to stick out, but to minimize the space between fender and top of wheel which gives the illusion that the wheel is further in the wheel well than it is.
Any thoughts or experiences how the wheels will look with less negative camber and this drop?
Camber over spacers means your tires will be marginally closer to the fender.
Example... if the wheel with -4 camber is 8mm away from the fender the top of the tire may actually be 12mm from the fender.
Tilting the wheel with a camber kit to then have 0 camber will bring the wheel 4mm away from the fender but now the wheel and tire are even so the tire too is that close to the fender.
Negative camber is going to allow your wheel to get closer to the fender without the tire getting as close.
So while you are right, just be sure your tires have the clearance they need.
I have a follow up question...why does everyone do 15mm front and 20mm rear spacers?
I measured the distance between the sidewall of the tire to the edge of the front fender and I also measured the same distance between the rear tire and edge of the 1/4 panel and it was the same. If I was to put a 20mm in the rear it would make the wheel stick out more than the front, is there a reason people do this?
to give the wider aggressive stanced look in the rear. there is a thread somewhere with a CBP TL-S with 25mm all around on stock wheels, fuck it looks really good
It sounds like you have a pretty good handle on all the working parts. It also sounds like the look you want is probably only going to be achieved by getting both. A camber kit will make your wheels neutral, but not move them out much. Spacers will move them out but keep them angled.
PS, you should look in to getting that alignment done ASAP. Camber is visually impactful and can cause uneven wear if its extreme, but I think you should worry more about toe. It's very difficult to see with the naked eye, and it'll eat your rubber if it's not corrected.
At stock height I poked about 7mm, then dropped the car, maybe a bit more than you, and I'm now inboard with about 5mm to spare. My front camber is -1.5°, and stock it was almost nothing, so you could say that -1.5° is somewhere around 10mm of movement (on my car). A camber kit is the way to go, it gives you control, is safer than spacers, and will allow you to get the negative camber back to stock if you want, but it's more expensive than spacers, which is why few do it.
I used an online right angle calculator and calculated that 1.5 negative camber correction is equivalent to 7mm of movement at the top of the tire to the fender. This is assuming my negative camber is at -2 because if I do a correction of 1.5 I still need a tiny bit of negative camber I feel.
So it seems even if I was to get a camber kit I would still need to run spacers.
I am going to start with spacers 15mm all around and take it from there. After I get an alignment with actual numbers I will have a better idea.
I am trying to avoid having to roll fenders, I am assuming with 8" a spec 235/40/18 tires, my current drop and 15mm spacers I shouldn't have to roll....based on my calcs.
No need to reinvent the wheel man, there are only 11tybillion guys on this forum that have done what you are doing, just do some searches.
Lastly, keep in mind that all tires are not created equal, so there really is no such thing as a 235/40/18, it all depends on the manufacturer. Pay particular attention to the tread-width, which is where the shoulder is. Some tires, like the Toyo Proxes R888, run very wide. Some, like the Goodyear Eagle F1 AS2 run very narrow.
I have a follow up question...why does everyone do 15mm front and 20mm rear spacers?
I measured the distance between the sidewall of the tire to the edge of the front fender and I also measured the same distance between the rear tire and edge of the 1/4 panel and it was the same. If I was to put a 20mm in the rear it would make the wheel stick out more than the front, is there a reason people do this?
Every car is a little different, but from the factory most TL's have 5mm more room outboard in the rear than in the front, and 5/8" more wheel gap in the front than in the rear.
I hear you and I probably am over analyzing this, but to some extent it's because a lot of the information online is not correct or because some critical facts are not posted.
I ordered the 15mm ichiba v2 spacers, we will see how it goes. If my negative camber at my current height comes in at -1.5 to -1.7 front and back I will leave everything as is as I think I will accomplish what I set out to get out of this. Tires being close to the edge, no rubbing, no fender rolling, and not too much camber (hopefully).
And good point on the tires as they are all different regardless of being the same size.
Every car is a little different, but from the factory most TL's have 5mm more room outboard in the rear than in the front, and 5/8" more wheel gap in the front than in the rear.
This is what prompted me to measure out the distance between sidewall to edge of fender/quarter panel...I read the exact same thing somewhere, but my measurements say otherwise. I also find it odd because based on alignment sheets I've seen posted here if the car is lowered the same all around the rear usually has more negative camber, which I think is the misconception leading to people believing that the rear is more inboard when in reality it may not be, it's the additional negative camber compared to the front that's giving off that illusion.
I'm over analyzing this because a lot of the information online is not correct or because some critical facts are not posted.
Fixed.
Not truer words have ever been spoken sir!
Originally Posted by 202009
This is what prompted me to measure out the distance between sidewall to edge of fender/quarter panel...I read the exact same thing somewhere, but my measurements say otherwise.
I was really late to the game, never even looked online, just measured my car, which is where I found the 5mm and 5/8" discrepancy. Again, every car is slightly different, so it's prudent for us to measure what we have.
Originally Posted by 202009
I also find it odd because based on alignment sheets I've seen posted here if the car is lowered the same all around the rear usually has more negative camber, which I think is the misconception leading to people believing that the rear is more inboard when in reality it may not be, it's the additional negative camber compared to the front that's giving off that illusion.
Yes, exactly, the car has more negative camber in the rear from the factory, and when dropped to make the front and rear even, I had -1.5° up front, and -2.6° in the rear! Since the front tucked perfectly, I just got a camber kit for the rear and made it -1.5° like the front, and all was well.
Unfortunately, when I go to fit my 275 tire I'll need to be at -1.8° both front and rear, which means I'll need a camber kit for the front.
You are starting to convince me that I should probably order a rear camber kit as well because chances are I will end up with more negative camber than I originally thought. It would also give me that 5mm or so that I am looking for to bring the rear tire closer to the edge of the quarter panel after I put the 15mm spacers.
You are starting to convince me that I should probably order a rear camber kit as well because chances are I will end up with more negative camber than I originally thought. It would also give me that 5mm or so that I am looking for to bring the rear tire closer to the edge of the quarter panel after I put the 15mm spacers.
Any recommendation on rear camber kits?
Man, when I dropped my car I was meticulous about getting it perfect to the mm, and still had -2.2° on one side of the rear, and -2.6° on the other side. And even though my toe was perfect, I saw wear on my tires after just 10,000 miles, so I got the SPC camber kit.
You can see where the car was riding in this shot.
The new shots are dropped, and the car wears 265/35 tires. Some of the older ones show it with the 255/40 tire and drop, and the oldest ones show the 255/40 with no drop.
Originally Posted by 202009
Reading up online (yay more contradicting shit) the reviews say to stay away from ball joint rear camber kit (SPC) and go for the adjustable arms. wtf
Contact Tom, the XLR8 rep here on the board, he's awesome, and will give you the complete low-down. Awesome guy.
Last edited by VisualEchos; 03-11-2016 at 10:18 AM.
03-10-2016, 05:24 PM
