HT-Spec Tuning - Function&Form Type-2 Damper - TL Specific Application
05-12-2010, 05:55 PM
#42
05-21-2010, 06:43 AM
#44
I maybe asking the obvious and this very well may be a stupid question... but will the TL Specific application be a type 2 F2? Will a type 1 be offered for those on a budget?
05-28-2010, 11:53 PM
#50
hmm i was thinking about getting SP3/eibachs cuz thats what the buzz is about but i might wait to see this...dang im tired of waiting i want a kit this summer! y did i have to open this thread???
06-11-2010, 08:58 AM
#58
Just posted on the t s x 'club:
TL parts I am going to be ironing out the valving hopefully by the end of the month. I am expecting top hats here by the end of the month to get started. We might be a 2-4 weeks behind on TL production versus the TSX...we are expecting to get a LOT of TL customers with this kit...especially once we get the electronic damper controller released.
Marcus
Originally Posted by mrheeltoe
UPDATE 6/11/2010:
After about a month of consternation I made it back to F2 yesterday to finalize the specs for the HT-Spec F2 Type-2 damper kit. I am really excited to see how this kit comes out. The fact is, F2 has been so cool and easy to work with in this process. The HT-Spec kits we have nailed down are going to have an increased height range due to longer bracket tubes and will fit perfectly without mods in the TSX.
The next step for us is now to toss in a Type-1 kit and make sure it is going to meet our demands. Right not it looks like the Type-1 kit will have approximately the same specs as a Type-2 set near the middle of the damper range.
- Moderate valving that is much more controlled than stock, yet gets more comfortable the more people/cargo you are carrying. With 3-4 people this thing rides plush, no other word for it
- Reduced dive when compared to the stock suspension
- Compliance through turns that will not bounce around, encouraging spirited street driving (especially on freeway ramps w00t!)
- Ability to drive for hours and hours without fatigue (I've clocked over 150 miles in one day without any discomfort at all)
For performance people the Type-2 is going to be the definite preference. Some more firmness here and there is going to be desired if you want to get the MOST out of the car. The Type-1 I expect will be more popular, but the Type-2 is going to surprise a lot of people.
We are shooting for August to ship parts. We will be taking orders all July since the availability will be just a little limited.
Marcus
After about a month of consternation I made it back to F2 yesterday to finalize the specs for the HT-Spec F2 Type-2 damper kit. I am really excited to see how this kit comes out. The fact is, F2 has been so cool and easy to work with in this process. The HT-Spec kits we have nailed down are going to have an increased height range due to longer bracket tubes and will fit perfectly without mods in the TSX.
The next step for us is now to toss in a Type-1 kit and make sure it is going to meet our demands. Right not it looks like the Type-1 kit will have approximately the same specs as a Type-2 set near the middle of the damper range.
- Moderate valving that is much more controlled than stock, yet gets more comfortable the more people/cargo you are carrying. With 3-4 people this thing rides plush, no other word for it
- Reduced dive when compared to the stock suspension
- Compliance through turns that will not bounce around, encouraging spirited street driving (especially on freeway ramps w00t!)
- Ability to drive for hours and hours without fatigue (I've clocked over 150 miles in one day without any discomfort at all)
For performance people the Type-2 is going to be the definite preference. Some more firmness here and there is going to be desired if you want to get the MOST out of the car. The Type-1 I expect will be more popular, but the Type-2 is going to surprise a lot of people.
We are shooting for August to ship parts. We will be taking orders all July since the availability will be just a little limited.
Marcus
Marcus
06-13-2010, 06:03 PM
#59
6spd FTW
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I had F2's on my 1G CL and when I first installed them I put them on completely lowered to see how low it went. The bottom of my car was literally on my garage floor, I could not move the car (I tried, tires spun). Had a hell of a time getting the jack out too, took a lot of oem jack usage.
06-14-2010, 11:13 AM
#60
Racer
Looking forward to seeing the results for the TL kits. Good work once again Marcus. I might have to swap out my A-Spec just to try this setup out. Can you tell us how much stiffer or softer than the TL A-Spec suspension you expect the Type-1 kit to be?
06-14-2010, 03:06 PM
#61
OOOOOH
lol they'll definitely be a lot stiffer than the a-spec suspension is.....
My question is why would the default spring rates for these coilovers be any different from the 7G Accords? Since they are so similar....
My question is why would the default spring rates for these coilovers be any different from the 7G Accords? Since they are so similar....
06-15-2010, 07:04 AM
#62
MARCUS,
Quick question.
Is the TL kit going to be a TYPE 1 or TYPE 2 kit?
Cause if it' Type 2, it's out of my budget. In this case I might as well stop waiting and just get the Accord kit.
But if it's Type 1, then I might as well wait and get the right tophats!
Thanks!!!
Quick question.
Is the TL kit going to be a TYPE 1 or TYPE 2 kit?
Cause if it' Type 2, it's out of my budget. In this case I might as well stop waiting and just get the Accord kit.
But if it's Type 1, then I might as well wait and get the right tophats!
Thanks!!!
06-15-2010, 03:37 PM
#63
The point isn't that the rates would need to be different than the accord...more that the accord kit on offer does not necessarily have the tuning we think it should have. There is no perfect kit out there for us. This gives us a kit to generally recommend above other kits. The standard accord kit is reasonable I am sure, but not what we might call "HT-Spec."
06-15-2010, 03:38 PM
#64
MARCUS,
Quick question.
Is the TL kit going to be a TYPE 1 or TYPE 2 kit?
Cause if it' Type 2, it's out of my budget. In this case I might as well stop waiting and just get the Accord kit.
But if it's Type 1, then I might as well wait and get the right tophats!
Thanks!!!
Quick question.
Is the TL kit going to be a TYPE 1 or TYPE 2 kit?
Cause if it' Type 2, it's out of my budget. In this case I might as well stop waiting and just get the Accord kit.
But if it's Type 1, then I might as well wait and get the right tophats!
Thanks!!!
We are making both, actually.
06-15-2010, 06:31 PM
#65
OKAY THEN I AM DEFINITELY WAITING!
Please, please, please Hurry! After my $60 EBAY roof spoiler fell off today, I am feenin' for my next mod...
Okay for my next REAL mod! 
Please, please, please Hurry! After my $60 EBAY roof spoiler fell off today, I am feenin' for my next mod...
Okay for my next REAL mod!
06-23-2010, 09:34 AM
#68
OOOOOH
I thought this was going to be a setup that would provide a significant performance improvement. Not just a drop with an "OEM ride". Your first post indicated that you are aiming for a performance-oriented kit that can "rail" corners.That's a long ways away from gracious amounts of suspension travel that an OEM setup allows. I mean, these coilovers have to be pretty stiff to handle a slammed ride, which is one thing you have put some emphasis towards (which is a good thing).
I'm honestly trying to understand the objective and what will be offered here.
The point isn't that the rates would need to be different than the accord...more that the accord kit on offer does not necessarily have the tuning we think it should have. There is no perfect kit out there for us. This gives us a kit to generally recommend above other kits. The standard accord kit is reasonable I am sure, but not what we might call "HT-Spec."
What I'm looking for is a setup that is acceptable for a daily driver, yet still tight and stiff enough to perform at the level of German sports sedans..... while being dropped lower than a zero-fender-gap level.
Am I heading in the right direction here?
Last edited by GoldnKnight22; 06-23-2010 at 09:49 AM.
06-24-2010, 11:55 AM
#69
Upper mounts are done now I believe, so we are waiting to a sample and some test dampers to come in to start working on the TL kit!
GoldnKnight22, a suspension need not be firm to provide better performance. You are making somewhat of the same fatal assumption that most people do in this area. We are not making a track suspension. It still needs to be compliant enough to soak up bumps encountered on fast street or mountain curves.
Likewise, saying that gracious amounts of travel are not going to be in keeping with the performance of the kit is contradictory as well. Limiting travel does nothing to help performance. They need to have decent travel when the car is lowered to allow the ride and handling to be maintained at these levels. The firmness of the kit need not be excessive.
To understand the objective is to simply state we are making a kit that will have a wide height adjustment range, and a focused firmness range that will compliment all forms of street sport/performance driving. In keeping with the street use mindset we are focusing on the ride being as compliant as possible. In the non-dampening-adjustable kit, this will mean somewhat of a limit on performance. On the adjustable kit, the compromises will be greatly lifted.
I have not evaluated the Accord kit in the TL. In the TSX is a underdampened in the front. I can't see it being good in the TL at all. I would question the effectiveness of this kit in an TSX, TL, or Accord regardless of what comments and use has been made of them. We feel this manufacturer to be of HT-Spec standard, however the dampening levels leave a lot to be desired.
You are right on direction here with your desires matching our kit's potential. Again in you end comment you make the mistake of assuming the suspension needs to be stiff enough to perform well. The reason the Germans have great kits is because they refine the valving of the dampers. By comparison, German kits largely use soft springs, which is how they get street comfort. It is the dampers that refine the comfort/control balance. That is the same as I am doing here.
Trying to strike that balance.
GoldnKnight22, a suspension need not be firm to provide better performance. You are making somewhat of the same fatal assumption that most people do in this area. We are not making a track suspension. It still needs to be compliant enough to soak up bumps encountered on fast street or mountain curves.
Likewise, saying that gracious amounts of travel are not going to be in keeping with the performance of the kit is contradictory as well. Limiting travel does nothing to help performance. They need to have decent travel when the car is lowered to allow the ride and handling to be maintained at these levels. The firmness of the kit need not be excessive.
To understand the objective is to simply state we are making a kit that will have a wide height adjustment range, and a focused firmness range that will compliment all forms of street sport/performance driving. In keeping with the street use mindset we are focusing on the ride being as compliant as possible. In the non-dampening-adjustable kit, this will mean somewhat of a limit on performance. On the adjustable kit, the compromises will be greatly lifted.
I have not evaluated the Accord kit in the TL. In the TSX is a underdampened in the front. I can't see it being good in the TL at all. I would question the effectiveness of this kit in an TSX, TL, or Accord regardless of what comments and use has been made of them. We feel this manufacturer to be of HT-Spec standard, however the dampening levels leave a lot to be desired.
You are right on direction here with your desires matching our kit's potential. Again in you end comment you make the mistake of assuming the suspension needs to be stiff enough to perform well. The reason the Germans have great kits is because they refine the valving of the dampers. By comparison, German kits largely use soft springs, which is how they get street comfort. It is the dampers that refine the comfort/control balance. That is the same as I am doing here.
Trying to strike that balance.
06-29-2010, 10:00 AM
#70
OOOOOH
So I friend of mine stopped by F2 Autolife to get a couple orders processed... and I told him to see what's up with the TL development.
Marcus, did he get some bad information perhaps? I thought for sure the TL sets were going to have different valving/spring rates.
Not trying to stir anythign up. Just wanted a clear snswer. I really don't care that much about the TL top hats, if there aren't going to be changes to the coilover specs, I'd probably go ahead and get a 7G Accord set...
Thanks.
Originally Posted by Friend
They're using the same valving on Accords for those TL's. They're considering having a different valving for TL's but since their R&D and other users so far (like the one I linked you to) have not complained about ride quality, they may just leave as is.
Not trying to stir anythign up. Just wanted a clear snswer. I really don't care that much about the TL top hats, if there aren't going to be changes to the coilover specs, I'd probably go ahead and get a 7G Accord set...
Thanks.
07-08-2010, 12:17 PM
#71
OOOOOH
Updates? Assembly under way?
Still wondering if this was just some bad info or if the same specs might be used from the Accord after all. Seems very much on the contrary to what has been talked about thus far.
Still wondering if this was just some bad info or if the same specs might be used from the Accord after all. Seems very much on the contrary to what has been talked about thus far.
07-08-2010, 12:48 PM
#73
So I friend of mine stopped by F2 Autolife to get a couple orders processed... and I told him to see what's up with the TL development.
Marcus, did he get some bad information perhaps? I thought for sure the TL sets were going to have different valving/spring rates.
Not trying to stir anythign up. Just wanted a clear snswer. I really don't care that much about the TL top hats, if there aren't going to be changes to the coilover specs, I'd probably go ahead and get a 7G Accord set...
Thanks.
Marcus, did he get some bad information perhaps? I thought for sure the TL sets were going to have different valving/spring rates.
Not trying to stir anythign up. Just wanted a clear snswer. I really don't care that much about the TL top hats, if there aren't going to be changes to the coilover specs, I'd probably go ahead and get a 7G Accord set...
Thanks.
They were commenting on their product. The project I am working is for a special specification kit. So in truth there will probably be two different specs you can get. The Accord spec that you can get now or a HT-Spec TL kit. I know for a fact that just because people "don't complain" doesn't mean they are getting a properly valved kit. From working with F2 I can say that while they are friendly and knowledgeable about their markets and products, they are not very technical there when it comes to the spec of the kits.
And for us those hats are sort of a bigger deal. The fit is sort of important to us.
07-09-2010, 06:27 PM
#75
The SS is a good kit, but this one might be more flexible overall...especially given the height range adjustment. I think the SS would meet your goal but with a smaller window of scope. The F2 kit should come in the same with a greater range for you to work with should your tastes change.
07-10-2010, 09:09 AM
#76
can i get the tl top hats when their released for the ht-spec kit? also is there big differences between the kit i have now and the one thats going to be released? i was also thinking of getting custom springs from eibach as well
07-11-2010, 08:55 PM
#78
The price is not really "good". $700- $1100. I will just spend $970 to buy my Tein SS coilover system. And Tein is a popular and famous brand........Just walk around and check up some local auto store maybe you can find a price even lower than my $970 for a Tein SS.
07-13-2010, 06:13 PM
#79
Well, sort of it is a good deal. Tein kits are much more limited in height adjustment, and do not come with new upper mounts. We sell the SS cheaper than that as well. And I am not saying this kit is better or higher end than the SS, just that it is lacking some features that are important to people.