Extreme Rear Inner Tire Wear on Yokohama ES100s
01-08-2008, 12:40 PM
#1
Extreme Rear Inner Tire Wear on Yokohama ES100s
OK so you guys have probably seen me vent my frustrations about the Yokohama ES100s on my A-Spec 18" gunmetals.
https://acurazine.com/forums/moderators-only-20/berners-avatar-163352/
https://acurazine.com/forums/showthread.php?t=169669
I had these wheels and tires on from April till January. The car ran about 8-9000 miles during this period. (I know I meant to change them out in November) The tires tread depth was at about 8-9/32nd of tread in March. (Nearly new) I did a rotation in July at about 4000 miles of wear and the tires were wearing a bit fast but still evenly. I had about 6-7/32nds of rubber left still normal.
Now 5000 miles later this has gotten downright dangerous. I don't know for sure what's up, just want some opinions. I noticed an EXTREME change in tire wear! Just check the pics. The front tires wore just normally and evenly. The tread is down to 5-6/32nds left. Most of the time we are concerned with wear on the front tire so my eye always goes there. It's the rear tires that are the problem though! The outer part of the tire wore to about 2-3/32nds of wear. The inner part of the tire was destroyed! They wore SO unevenly that the belts are showing! The shoulder is totally eroded and distorted. It is actually indented on the shoulder of the tread all the way around. The tire was practically being supported by the sidewall instead of the contact patch!! The tire lost some of it conformity and was on it's way to catostrophic failure. The wear was camoflauged for awhile from my view because it was on the inner border.
I'm pretty knowledgable about tires so I don't neglect them. Most of the time tire eating wear occurs due to bad toe settings on the front end. They can shred a tire away. On my rear tire, I can't say it's anything else but an extreme negative camber that caused it. It can't be tire pressure as I religiously kept it at 36psi. As you can see it happened just the same on BOTH tires. I have seen camber so bad it is actually visible with the naked eye if you view the car from behind. My car dosen't look to have any visible signs of negative camber. I know most of you will be telling me to get an alignment but is the rear camber adjustable on the TL? Does anyone think it could be toe or caster causing this? I don't think it is tire balancing either. Maybe a defect in the tire? My tires made a lot of noise on the road but there was no wobble or vibration either felt or seen. My car has 24,000 miles and no accidents or alignments. Tires were installed properly and torqued to spec. Again the wear on the inner part of the tires happened on BOTH sides.....Weird. At least I know where that "black dust" was coming from....My tires were literally powdering off!
I changed to my stock tires for now but I want to fix this before I shred any more tires. Anybody have any ideas before I run out for an alignment? I am hoping there is a fix for this and I hope this is not a case of "that's the way TLs are, they all wear like that and you just have to rotate religiously every 3000 miles"
see how much the car was riding on the inner part?
front tire worn normal (tire on the left) compared to rear tire (tire on the right)
On closeup on the right side (inner side) of the tire you can see how the tire is actually INDENTED at the shoulder and the belts are showing.
I zoomed this picture up to show the indented area again circled in blue and the area where the belt is showing circled in red.
https://acurazine.com/forums/moderators-only-20/berners-avatar-163352/
https://acurazine.com/forums/showthread.php?t=169669
I had these wheels and tires on from April till January. The car ran about 8-9000 miles during this period. (I know I meant to change them out in November) The tires tread depth was at about 8-9/32nd of tread in March. (Nearly new) I did a rotation in July at about 4000 miles of wear and the tires were wearing a bit fast but still evenly. I had about 6-7/32nds of rubber left still normal.
Now 5000 miles later this has gotten downright dangerous. I don't know for sure what's up, just want some opinions. I noticed an EXTREME change in tire wear! Just check the pics. The front tires wore just normally and evenly. The tread is down to 5-6/32nds left. Most of the time we are concerned with wear on the front tire so my eye always goes there. It's the rear tires that are the problem though! The outer part of the tire wore to about 2-3/32nds of wear. The inner part of the tire was destroyed! They wore SO unevenly that the belts are showing! The shoulder is totally eroded and distorted. It is actually indented on the shoulder of the tread all the way around. The tire was practically being supported by the sidewall instead of the contact patch!! The tire lost some of it conformity and was on it's way to catostrophic failure. The wear was camoflauged for awhile from my view because it was on the inner border.
I'm pretty knowledgable about tires so I don't neglect them. Most of the time tire eating wear occurs due to bad toe settings on the front end. They can shred a tire away. On my rear tire, I can't say it's anything else but an extreme negative camber that caused it. It can't be tire pressure as I religiously kept it at 36psi. As you can see it happened just the same on BOTH tires. I have seen camber so bad it is actually visible with the naked eye if you view the car from behind. My car dosen't look to have any visible signs of negative camber. I know most of you will be telling me to get an alignment but is the rear camber adjustable on the TL? Does anyone think it could be toe or caster causing this? I don't think it is tire balancing either. Maybe a defect in the tire? My tires made a lot of noise on the road but there was no wobble or vibration either felt or seen. My car has 24,000 miles and no accidents or alignments. Tires were installed properly and torqued to spec. Again the wear on the inner part of the tires happened on BOTH sides.....Weird. At least I know where that "black dust" was coming from....My tires were literally powdering off!
I changed to my stock tires for now but I want to fix this before I shred any more tires. Anybody have any ideas before I run out for an alignment? I am hoping there is a fix for this and I hope this is not a case of "that's the way TLs are, they all wear like that and you just have to rotate religiously every 3000 miles"
see how much the car was riding on the inner part?
front tire worn normal (tire on the left) compared to rear tire (tire on the right)
On closeup on the right side (inner side) of the tire you can see how the tire is actually INDENTED at the shoulder and the belts are showing.
I zoomed this picture up to show the indented area again circled in blue and the area where the belt is showing circled in red.
01-08-2008, 02:20 PM
#5
Originally Posted by 260 HP
Looks like a TOE setting issue. AFAIK, 2005-up TLs have the revised, longer rear bump stops to avoid the issue that affects 04 cars.
You might want to see if the alignment numbers are good.
You might want to see if the alignment numbers are good.
01-08-2008, 02:59 PM
#6
But my car is a 2006....and if it was a toe setting the wear would show feathered edges and the wear would be across the tire. There wouldn't be such severe inner wear with indentation. Well one thing that may support a bad toe is that the tire did wearout awfully fast all the way across.
Before I go to a 3rd party alignment shop, I'll take my car with A-Spec wheels to the dealer and fight for a bit. Let's see what they say. Sounds like fun.
Before I go to a 3rd party alignment shop, I'll take my car with A-Spec wheels to the dealer and fight for a bit. Let's see what they say. Sounds like fun.
01-08-2008, 03:15 PM
#7
IMO, you should NEVER take an Acura to anyone other than the dealer for issues such as this....and this one is WAY overdue. They have the latest downloaded software and TSB's for Acuras. This one was dangerous 
I am glad you were not injured in an accident, which these may certainly have caused.
I am glad you were not injured in an accident, which these may certainly have caused.
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01-08-2008, 05:18 PM
#9
Originally Posted by BrianC636
Looks like a camber issue. However wasn't there a TSB out there to cover this exact issue?
I'm pretty knowledgable about tires so I don't neglect them. Most of the time tire eating wear occurs due to bad toe settings on the front end. They can shred a tire away. On my rear tire, I can't say it's anything else but an extreme negative camber that caused it. It can't be tire pressure as I religiously kept it at 36psi. As you can see it happened just the same on BOTH tires. I have seen camber so bad it is actually visible with the naked eye if you view the car from behind. My car dosen't look to have any visible signs of negative camber. I know most of you will be telling me to get an alignment but is the rear camber adjustable on the TL? Does anyone think it could be toe or caster causing this? I don't think it is tire balancing either. Maybe a defect in the tire? My tires made a lot of noise on the road but there was no wobble or vibration either felt or seen. My car has 24,000 miles and no accidents or alignments. Tires were installed properly and torqued to spec. Again the wear on the inner part of the tires happened on BOTH sides.....Weird. At least I know where that "black dust" was coming from....My tires were literally powdering off!
Your perception above is true. This leads me to believe your last alignment guy felt the same way and didn't "pay attention" to the rear.
I'm a believer in Heeltoe's sticky. Out of spec camber DOES not lead to excessively pre-mature tire wear. I'm dropped 1.5 inches on Tein SS, NO Camber kit, negative camber is clearly visible with my 19s on.
-2.1 Camber on both sides in the rear.
I got a good alignment within 100 miles of the drop, rolled 7K miles on my Volks with new Falken 452s... Took em off in November. They still look new.
Your rear alignment has to be off.
01-08-2008, 10:13 PM
#10
Yeah it can't be camber alone.....it looks to be a combination of camber (neagative) AND toe (toe in probably) and those forces concentrated to such a small part of the contact patch must have destroyed that part of the tire. I was planning a drop later this year. Could you imagine what would happen if the camber got worse!!
I never had an alignment before or any suspension work before so let's see what Acura says about this.
I never had an alignment before or any suspension work before so let's see what Acura says about this.
01-09-2008, 05:41 PM
#11
Originally Posted by rockyfeller
Yeah it can't be camber alone.....it looks to be a combination of camber (neagative) AND toe (toe in probably) and those forces concentrated to such a small part of the contact patch must have destroyed that part of the tire. I was planning a drop later this year. Could you imagine what would happen if the camber got worse!!
I never had an alignment before or any suspension work before so let's see what Acura says about this.
I never had an alignment before or any suspension work before so let's see what Acura says about this.
I get an alignment every spring before I put the summer rollers one. If you put miles on a car, your probability of knocking your alignment out on a pot hole increases with every mile.
Alignments are necessary maintenence actions, and should be checked regularly.
Acura may give a free alignment, but they ain;t gonna replace those tires...
01-09-2008, 08:14 PM
#12
I agree alignments are necessary maintenance. I know some people like to do one every year but in my opinion I don't feel it's necessary that often. IMO I think 25,000 miles is about the right time even if nothing is wrong as a maintenance measure. Granted the car is at about 24,000 miles and I was due for one. I just wish it didn't cost me 2 tires.
The exception to my own 25k rule is if there are any signs of needing an alignment such as the car not tracking straight or uneven tire wear. If I had seen that, I would have gotten it checked out. In this case, there were no warning signs. I saw no real reason up till now to warrant an alignment. The car was tracking dead straight, tire pressures were on point and tire wear was dead even. Rotations were regular. I was carefully watching the front end being especially the car is front heavy and FWD. I am pretty careful about mantaining the car. But I guess I was a bit more neglectful in the last 3 months by missing that inner tire wear till 2 wks ago. It really all happened fast. I had freakin rubber dust on my car! lol! Never heard of that! In all my years of driving this is the first time I have had this extraordinary circumstance.
Potholes, curbing etc. can knock things out of whack but again you would expect that on the front end. I never expected wear like that on the rear! And the same story on both tires. Tires are gone, I know. (I was just waiting for those dreaded Yokos to go anyways) Only thing is I have 2 usable tires. I could still get another year of use out of them.....can't cry about it. Goodyear F1s will help me feel better. If I can get Acura to cover an alignment, I'm happy.
The exception to my own 25k rule is if there are any signs of needing an alignment such as the car not tracking straight or uneven tire wear. If I had seen that, I would have gotten it checked out. In this case, there were no warning signs. I saw no real reason up till now to warrant an alignment. The car was tracking dead straight, tire pressures were on point and tire wear was dead even. Rotations were regular. I was carefully watching the front end being especially the car is front heavy and FWD. I am pretty careful about mantaining the car. But I guess I was a bit more neglectful in the last 3 months by missing that inner tire wear till 2 wks ago. It really all happened fast. I had freakin rubber dust on my car! lol! Never heard of that! In all my years of driving this is the first time I have had this extraordinary circumstance.
Potholes, curbing etc. can knock things out of whack but again you would expect that on the front end. I never expected wear like that on the rear! And the same story on both tires. Tires are gone, I know. (I was just waiting for those dreaded Yokos to go anyways) Only thing is I have 2 usable tires. I could still get another year of use out of them.....can't cry about it. Goodyear F1s will help me feel better. If I can get Acura to cover an alignment, I'm happy.
01-09-2008, 08:53 PM
#13
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i had the same tires and that happend to me also....i had brend new car with this tires and after 6 -7 k miles my front tire had that indented area , back were ok i change wheels and susspention did aligment and no problems now but i dont know about those tires something wierd ....
01-10-2008, 01:29 AM
#14
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I used to ride on these tires as well and experienced many problems with them. They used to pull the car heavily to the right and being in NYC, the roads didn't help the alignment at all. I got my alignment checked like 2 or 3 times within 15,000 miles. These tires sucked ass for me and I would never get them again. The tires also developed bubbles and after hitting a slight pothole due to construction, one of the tires was split and was completely gone. I then switched to Kumhos and noticed a drastic difference in my ride.
01-10-2008, 10:58 AM
#15
Originally Posted by S PAW 1
On second thought, those look like REALLY wide tires. What size are they?
Yeah I have heard more bad things about these tires than good things. You've heard my complaints over all these threads. I know I'm not alone. They tramline, they're too soft, they give no curb protection and make road noise like crazy.
The only good things I can say is that they are cheaper to replace than the other name-brand tires, they have a V-shaped sipe pattern similar to Michelin Pilot Sport's treads that give it pretty good wet weather performance and the dry grip is pretty impressive. That's about it. In all other respects, this tire SUCKS!
Yokohama has replaced this line with a new line called "S.Drive" The price point is the same, but it's a different tread pattern. I bet they have improved it. Anyone try it? I know I'm not taking my chances on it, but I was just curious if it has improved over the ES100.
01-27-2008, 07:39 PM
#17
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Originally Posted by rockyfeller
My bad I thought all this time I had 245s.....I am such an idiot. I have the same size as everyone else. 235/40/18s
I have a 2004 TL that went through a set of ES100s with uneven wear - found out about the bump-stop fix and had that installed along with NEW ES100s that Acura paid for. With the bump-stops installed, regular alignment checks my ES100s have lasted only about 14000 kms and are identical to your pictures. I went back to Acura and they contacted Yoko who came back and said that the ES100s are not recommended for the TL ......what a bunch of bull......Acura also blamed my driving habits without even investigating who drives the car...its my wife's car...anywys....keep me posted as to what you find out about your issues........I'm trying to convince the Acura service rep to work with me to find out what really is causing my wear.......
Good luck,
Jim
01-27-2008, 11:16 PM
#18
Racer
It's not the tires. I had the same issues on the stock set, Toyo Proxes 4, and on the T1Rs. It's the car's rear suspension design, plain and simple. I have an 05 and nothing I've done (including the TSB) have proven totally effective.
You should get an alignment and rotate your tires more often than normal. I do it every oil change - and yes, it sucks.
You should get an alignment and rotate your tires more often than normal. I do it every oil change - and yes, it sucks.
02-09-2008, 11:28 AM
#19
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Originally Posted by theklassic
It's not the tires. I had the same issues on the stock set, Toyo Proxes 4, and on the T1Rs. It's the car's rear suspension design, plain and simple. I have an 05 and nothing I've done (including the TSB) have proven totally effective.
You should get an alignment and rotate your tires more often than normal. I do it every oil change - and yes, it sucks.
You should get an alignment and rotate your tires more often than normal. I do it every oil change - and yes, it sucks.
Can anyone explain how after almost 4 winters, my snows show even and constant wear, but my summers can'y make it to 15000 miles if the issue is really the rear suspension??
Thanks
Jim
02-17-2008, 01:22 AM
#21
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Question about aftermarket suspension...
I just realized I had the same problem. I am using BF Goodrich tires though. Tires are almost exactly 1 year old.
Here are some pics of the tires before I replaced them.
Passenger tire:
Driver Tire:
Notice how much meat is still on the outer side of the tire?
Here is a scan of my alignment that I just did.
Were the settings out of spec enough to wear my tires out as quickly as they did?
My TL is a 2004 though, so I probably have the bump stop issue. Unfortunately, the previous owner cut the stock springs to drop the car, so I would not qualify for the dealer to fix it.
Here is my question:
I just ordered the Tein SS coilovers and they should come in next week. Will this fix the problem, or are the bump stops a different part of the suspension that won't be replaced by the coilovers?
I just want to be sure there is nothing additional that I need to do to fix this problem.
Thanks in advance!
Edit: I want to add that when I replaced my tires last year, I did an alignment.
Here are some pics of the tires before I replaced them.
Passenger tire:
Driver Tire:
Notice how much meat is still on the outer side of the tire?
Here is a scan of my alignment that I just did.
Were the settings out of spec enough to wear my tires out as quickly as they did?
My TL is a 2004 though, so I probably have the bump stop issue. Unfortunately, the previous owner cut the stock springs to drop the car, so I would not qualify for the dealer to fix it.
Here is my question:
I just ordered the Tein SS coilovers and they should come in next week. Will this fix the problem, or are the bump stops a different part of the suspension that won't be replaced by the coilovers?
I just want to be sure there is nothing additional that I need to do to fix this problem.
Thanks in advance!
Edit: I want to add that when I replaced my tires last year, I did an alignment.
02-17-2008, 02:16 AM
#22
A-spec steering wheel ftw
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this happened to me a bunch of times...and everytime i took it to acura, they just told me my alignment was off.
didnt realize so many other people had problems....i originally thought maybe i'm just driving the car way too hard...
but if other people are having this issue, maybe it's not my hard driving..
or it is my hard driving and other people's hard driving, which would mean it's an issue acura should fix.
i also thought it could just be that the Yoks treads wear out fast....but you guys are reporting similar things on other tire brands.
rockyfellar, my yoks ran to the point where the steel belt was showing btw.
i wish i saved a copy of my other alignments...i actually just had another alignment done at a different dealer (since i'm out of NY atm). i'll scan that one later, i'm not near my scanner atm.
i dont know what it is, but the treads seriously wore down after about 6-7k for me, and of course Rallye generously offered to replace all 4 wheels with another set of yoks for 247 each wheel + installation (fucking rip off)..
i'm running a different set of wheels, but i JUST made a post on the same issue, i had all 4 tires changed out about a year ago and i just hit 19000 miles, so yea, exactly 10k miles later i'm starting to feel my car sliding in the corners. I just thought maybe I scrimped and bought shitty tires (which may still be possible)
let us know what's up when you goto the dealer, i'm goin to the dealer for something else, but i'll ask the service guy here (MO) too when i go this week.
didnt realize so many other people had problems....i originally thought maybe i'm just driving the car way too hard...
but if other people are having this issue, maybe it's not my hard driving..
or it is my hard driving and other people's hard driving, which would mean it's an issue acura should fix.
i also thought it could just be that the Yoks treads wear out fast....but you guys are reporting similar things on other tire brands.
rockyfellar, my yoks ran to the point where the steel belt was showing btw.
i wish i saved a copy of my other alignments...i actually just had another alignment done at a different dealer (since i'm out of NY atm). i'll scan that one later, i'm not near my scanner atm.
i dont know what it is, but the treads seriously wore down after about 6-7k for me, and of course Rallye generously offered to replace all 4 wheels with another set of yoks for 247 each wheel + installation (fucking rip off)..
i'm running a different set of wheels, but i JUST made a post on the same issue, i had all 4 tires changed out about a year ago and i just hit 19000 miles, so yea, exactly 10k miles later i'm starting to feel my car sliding in the corners. I just thought maybe I scrimped and bought shitty tires (which may still be possible)
let us know what's up when you goto the dealer, i'm goin to the dealer for something else, but i'll ask the service guy here (MO) too when i go this week.
02-19-2008, 02:53 AM
#23
Burning Brakes
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So does anyone know the answer to my question? I would really like to know before I get my suspension installed next week...
Will replacing my stock suspension with Tein SS coilovers fix the bump stop problem listed in TSB 05-050 and 05-076, or do my bump stops still need to be replaced?
Will replacing my stock suspension with Tein SS coilovers fix the bump stop problem listed in TSB 05-050 and 05-076, or do my bump stops still need to be replaced?
02-19-2008, 02:44 PM
#24
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Ok, I found the exploded image of the rear suspension in the service manual.
It looks like the bump stop is part of the whole suspension assembly, so I think it should be replaced by the new coilovers.
If anyone sees otherwise, or has any other comments, PLEASE reply!
It looks like the bump stop is part of the whole suspension assembly, so I think it should be replaced by the new coilovers.
If anyone sees otherwise, or has any other comments, PLEASE reply!
02-19-2008, 05:37 PM
#26
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Thanks for the reply 260HP!
Thats exactly the news I wanted to hear! Hopefully this will solve my problem!
Here are my alignments that I have had for the car. Looks like back in October 2006 it was REALLY bad.
02-14-08
02-13-07
10-09-06
08-24-06
02-20-06
Thats exactly the news I wanted to hear! Hopefully this will solve my problem!
Here are my alignments that I have had for the car. Looks like back in October 2006 it was REALLY bad.
02-14-08
02-13-07
10-09-06
08-24-06
02-20-06
06-09-2008, 01:15 AM
#27
Tires DO make a difference.....
I STILL haven't done an alignment....I know, I'm a dummy. Well, I am waiting on a warrantied repair to be done first. Then I want to install some Tein Basics/Progress RSB first and then align it.
So I've been riding on those stockies for 6 months and guess what? Totally normal wear!! I know those tires have a far harder compound but this still makes no sense! I got 2 ES100 replacements and I temporarily put them on for a week. (I know I should wait till after the alignment.....I am SO impatient! Gotta look good!) There WAS noticable shoulder wear on the inner edge AGAIN. This time I have and eagle-watch on it. I just rotated them again and will be doing my suspension work in 2 wks. These tires are just shredding away on the inside! I am hoping the alignment is the answer!
I STILL haven't done an alignment....I know, I'm a dummy. Well, I am waiting on a warrantied repair to be done first. Then I want to install some Tein Basics/Progress RSB first and then align it.
So I've been riding on those stockies for 6 months and guess what? Totally normal wear!! I know those tires have a far harder compound but this still makes no sense! I got 2 ES100 replacements and I temporarily put them on for a week. (I know I should wait till after the alignment.....I am SO impatient! Gotta look good!) There WAS noticable shoulder wear on the inner edge AGAIN. This time I have and eagle-watch on it. I just rotated them again and will be doing my suspension work in 2 wks. These tires are just shredding away on the inside! I am hoping the alignment is the answer!
06-09-2008, 03:28 AM
#28
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hey dont feel too bad, when i was on the ES100's i had the same problem; tbh they are an amazingly great set of tires, especially for our TL, but the longevity of these tires are worth crap.
in the end you will want to find a better mixed compound than the ES100's.
Since i swapped out all my Yoks all i've really had to do are alignments about every 6 months, and my tires are getting their first rotation after 5k miles
in the end you will want to find a better mixed compound than the ES100's.
Since i swapped out all my Yoks all i've really had to do are alignments about every 6 months, and my tires are getting their first rotation after 5k miles
06-09-2008, 09:03 PM
#30
Yeah, I have my cousin's hookup now, thanks for the offer. He can do all the tire work for me. He's going to do the springs/sway/alignment, I'm just waiting on the Acura service first. One of the reasons I kept the A-Specs on is because of the meet on the 14th. Yeah, love those meets. I wish it would have been dropped by then. Oh well I'll make sure it will be before the RJ meet.
I've kept procrastinating about all this and been caught up with real life and all this was pending.....I kept telling myself "I'm dropping the car in 2 wks" and my Teins have been sittin here. I shoulda just did an alignment 6 months ago! Well I waited long enough and this time I'll be really gettin it done..............I think. lol.
I've kept procrastinating about all this and been caught up with real life and all this was pending.....I kept telling myself "I'm dropping the car in 2 wks" and my Teins have been sittin here. I shoulda just did an alignment 6 months ago! Well I waited long enough and this time I'll be really gettin it done..............I think. lol.
06-09-2008, 09:26 PM
#31
Suzuka Master
This pix below is minor in spec negative camber and toe in out of spec.
Once the tire wears in past the tread rubber the compound under that is very soft and will wear very fast.
This tire had no cords showing and then 175 miles looked like this .
BTW this is on the rear of my daughters 1995 355i Ferarri Spider with less than 20000 miles on it.
Once the tire wears in past the tread rubber the compound under that is very soft and will wear very fast.
This tire had no cords showing and then 175 miles looked like this .
BTW this is on the rear of my daughters 1995 355i Ferarri Spider with less than 20000 miles on it.
12-11-2008, 01:04 PM
#32
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Hi everyone... I've done a ton of reading here and wanted to revisit this old thread to ask everyone for their opinion/advice.
I own a 2004 TL, and upgraded to the A-Spec wheels and suspension with Kumho ECSTA SPTs at around 27K miles. By that point, the factory Bridgestones were badly worn, especially the rear ones. After owning the new suspension and Kumhos for less than a year, my right front tire suddenly shredded to the point of damaging my brake lines. At first I blamed the tires, but when I took them off I saw that BOTH front tires had severe wear on the inside. I had always kept them properly inflated to specs. Luckily, I had kept my EL42's and brought them out of retirement until I could fix this problem. But this is just to buy more time, and I don't have much of it since my rear tires are so horribly worn. This occurred with the original suspension, but I've read that A-spec suspension does not fix the bump stop problem.
So... summarized...
PROBLEM #1:
Front tires severely damaged on inside after less than 10K miles (pictures below)
Tires: Kumho ECSTA SPT
Suspension: A-spec, dealer-installed and aligned
Suspected cause: bad alignment (camber/toe)
PROBLEM #2:
Factory Bridgestone Turanzas have severe (and even) wear in the back tires.
Suspension: Factory for first 27K, and now A-spec.
Suspected cause: bad bump stops, as per service bulletin TSB 05-050
So here are my questions:
QUESTION #1
What the hell caused this problem? Camber/Toe? Could it have been the bump stops? The dealer that installed my A-specs told me the new suspension would fix the problem but I have since read posts to the contrary. What say you guys?
QUESTION #2
How do I approach the dealer (Orr Acura in Shreveport) about replacement of the bump stops and getting the new alignment? I'm assuming I'll have to pay for all this since I have the A-spec suspension? I have no interest in seeking reimbursement for crappy tires, I just want the bump stops replaced, with the new toe alignements...
This will be my wife's car and we are expecting our first born... I am very concerned for their potential safety, and I would very much appreciate some feedback from you guys.
Below are pictures of my less-than-one-year-old Kumho tires...
Right front tire: (scary!)
Left front tire:
http://i100.photobucket.com/albums/m...Seattle012.jpg
Both front tires (so you can see the uneven wear)
http://i100.photobucket.com/albums/m...Seattle009.jpg
I own a 2004 TL, and upgraded to the A-Spec wheels and suspension with Kumho ECSTA SPTs at around 27K miles. By that point, the factory Bridgestones were badly worn, especially the rear ones. After owning the new suspension and Kumhos for less than a year, my right front tire suddenly shredded to the point of damaging my brake lines. At first I blamed the tires, but when I took them off I saw that BOTH front tires had severe wear on the inside. I had always kept them properly inflated to specs. Luckily, I had kept my EL42's and brought them out of retirement until I could fix this problem. But this is just to buy more time, and I don't have much of it since my rear tires are so horribly worn. This occurred with the original suspension, but I've read that A-spec suspension does not fix the bump stop problem.
So... summarized...
PROBLEM #1:
Front tires severely damaged on inside after less than 10K miles (pictures below)
Tires: Kumho ECSTA SPT
Suspension: A-spec, dealer-installed and aligned
Suspected cause: bad alignment (camber/toe)
PROBLEM #2:
Factory Bridgestone Turanzas have severe (and even) wear in the back tires.
Suspension: Factory for first 27K, and now A-spec.
Suspected cause: bad bump stops, as per service bulletin TSB 05-050
So here are my questions:
QUESTION #1
What the hell caused this problem? Camber/Toe? Could it have been the bump stops? The dealer that installed my A-specs told me the new suspension would fix the problem but I have since read posts to the contrary. What say you guys?
QUESTION #2
How do I approach the dealer (Orr Acura in Shreveport) about replacement of the bump stops and getting the new alignment? I'm assuming I'll have to pay for all this since I have the A-spec suspension? I have no interest in seeking reimbursement for crappy tires, I just want the bump stops replaced, with the new toe alignements...
This will be my wife's car and we are expecting our first born... I am very concerned for their potential safety, and I would very much appreciate some feedback from you guys.
Below are pictures of my less-than-one-year-old Kumho tires...
Right front tire: (scary!)
Left front tire:
http://i100.photobucket.com/albums/m...Seattle012.jpg
Both front tires (so you can see the uneven wear)
http://i100.photobucket.com/albums/m...Seattle009.jpg
12-12-2008, 10:54 AM
#33
i have an 04. I had the bump stops replaced as soon as I found out about the TSB. I had to educate the dealership about it. I had to "force" them to an alignment at that time too! Got rid of the OEM tires at about 27K and got Falken 512s 255/40s. Had another re-alignment at 35K at WheelWorks. They found only one very minor angle adjustment to make. The tire wear is now bad at 42K (I know low milage). I only rotated at B schedule and I fee I should have rotated every A schedule on these tires. My tire dealer says he finds that 3rd gen TLs are pretty hard on tires. The same tires on a other cars like a Maxima lasts longer. I am planning to get Falken FK-452's 245/45. Hopefully this will last longer than the 512s.
12-12-2008, 11:37 AM
#34
As an update: My car has since been lowered with Teins and I put in a Progress rear sway bar and then I aligned it in September. The alignment specs ESPECIALLY on the rear were off! Toe was pretty bad. It wasn't as bad as I thought it would be but bad enough! That must have been the culprit. The front toe wasn't too bad. The 2 Yokos I had on the rear were beginning to repeat the extreme wear of the other tires. I had them dismounted and remounted and balanced with the wear on the outside. I put those tires on the front and the newer on the back. I wanted to see how the tires would wear....What sucks is my front tires looked like racing slicks and I couldn't drive too crazy because there was plenty of tread on the inside now but they were worn on the outside edges. At least this would guarantee a more even wear pattern and I can use them out so I didn't have to worry about tires until spring.
I just switched to my stockies last week and looked at my Yokos. after 3 months of use. BIG improvement! The rears STILL have a bit of inner wear. This could be just camber wear because I lowered the car of course. But it wasn't anywhere as bad as before. I think toe was the culprit all along.
What is WEIRD is how this wear is so focused on the squared edge of the shoulder! How is it that that much weight is focused on such a small part of the contact patch? The camber HAS to be pretty severe and out of whack (almost visibly apparent; but you can't honestly see that on my car.) to get a tire worn like that. vara I am looking at your tires and it looks JUST like my wear pattern. Just plain weird!
Vara having the dealer deal with your problem all hinges on 1 question. Who installed your suspension? If it is OEM or they did the install they will try everything to get out of it. But you can definitely bitch and get your way. If you installed it elsewhere they will wash their hands and say it is your problem.
I just switched to my stockies last week and looked at my Yokos. after 3 months of use. BIG improvement! The rears STILL have a bit of inner wear. This could be just camber wear because I lowered the car of course. But it wasn't anywhere as bad as before. I think toe was the culprit all along.
What is WEIRD is how this wear is so focused on the squared edge of the shoulder! How is it that that much weight is focused on such a small part of the contact patch? The camber HAS to be pretty severe and out of whack (almost visibly apparent; but you can't honestly see that on my car.) to get a tire worn like that. vara I am looking at your tires and it looks JUST like my wear pattern. Just plain weird!
Vara having the dealer deal with your problem all hinges on 1 question. Who installed your suspension? If it is OEM or they did the install they will try everything to get out of it. But you can definitely bitch and get your way. If you installed it elsewhere they will wash their hands and say it is your problem.
12-13-2008, 01:06 AM
#35
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Thanks for the input, man. I'll take it at face value when I enter the dealer next week. The A-Spec installation WAS done by an Acura dealer, but in Miami. I currently live in Shreveport...... hmm....
03-26-2010, 12:38 PM
#37
Just wanted to do an update here. I have since used these A-Spec wheels as winter wheels and use my Works just for summer. I chucked out the Yokos and bought a fresh set of Goodyear F1 All-Seasons that I got a killer deal on. ($550 shipped!)
I got them in the 245/40/18 size. I was going to do 255 but they are much more rare to find and much more expensive. I am happy I DIDN'T do them because the 245s sit PERFECTLY on the rim and afford adequate rim protection. I think 255s would be too chunky and do a reverse stretch. These sit FLAT against the rim without the rim flange protruding. OMG these tires are only "10mm" wider in width but with the way they are constructed they are much more meaty and sit firm and flat. Only problem is my tires do have some rub on heavy dips or turns but that is because I am lowered. I imagine a stock height car would have no problems.
The car drives like day and night. Drove through snow storms, perfect. Handles rain, perfect. Dry performance 8/10. You can't ask for better out of tires. Oh yeah, and they run QUIET. No more 1994 Ford Bronco sound from these. After 5000 miles I checked the rear wear and it's OK. It still has camber wear but it will be tolerable with frequent rotations. This is light years ahead of the Yokos and the tires were 100% to blame.
Lesson? Buy good tires and you won't be disappointed.
I got them in the 245/40/18 size. I was going to do 255 but they are much more rare to find and much more expensive. I am happy I DIDN'T do them because the 245s sit PERFECTLY on the rim and afford adequate rim protection. I think 255s would be too chunky and do a reverse stretch. These sit FLAT against the rim without the rim flange protruding. OMG these tires are only "10mm" wider in width but with the way they are constructed they are much more meaty and sit firm and flat. Only problem is my tires do have some rub on heavy dips or turns but that is because I am lowered. I imagine a stock height car would have no problems.
The car drives like day and night. Drove through snow storms, perfect. Handles rain, perfect. Dry performance 8/10. You can't ask for better out of tires. Oh yeah, and they run QUIET. No more 1994 Ford Bronco sound from these. After 5000 miles I checked the rear wear and it's OK. It still has camber wear but it will be tolerable with frequent rotations. This is light years ahead of the Yokos and the tires were 100% to blame.
Lesson? Buy good tires and you won't be disappointed.
Last edited by rockyfeller; 03-26-2010 at 12:41 PM.
03-27-2010, 03:20 AM
#38
I'm so glad I stumbled across this thread, I had the same tires, except they were 235/40/18 on a-spec rims with a tein ss drop of about 1.5". I just wanted new tires as I found these tires sometimes kinda too "slippery" on hairpin turns. So I just bought some Nitto Invo 245/40/18's and after I got them put on, I wanted to see my old tires for a comparison from 235/245. Holy crap, I couldn't believe it, my tires were shot, just like the pics you had posted, one tire was so bad that I could stick my finger inside the departing tread. I would've had a blowout. In my opinion, these tires are shit. My tires before, Falken ze512's were awesome, aside from minimal tread life, they were like riding on rails. On a positive note, good thing to know it's not a camber issue even though it's clearly visible. Just a bad alignment.
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