Is it just me, or is my 6-speed manual 2008 Type-S not good at all in snowy or icy conditions.

I just bought 4 new Dunlop Graspic DS-2 winter tires after realizing my all-seasons should be classified as 3-seasons, and I have seen a slightly better grip, but I can still hardly get up a slight hill that is covered in snow without having the front tires spin and the car twisting as it moves so slowly upwards.

Is the car, which is front-drive, that bad in snow?????

Not what the dealer told me when I traded in my rear-wheel drive 2007 BMW 328i, which was better than the TL in snow.

Please let me know what you think.

Thanks

 

Give yourself more time. My 2005 6MT with 4 Blizzak WS50s does fine. It's not the best car I've had in the snow (That was a 79 Saab 900T with snows) but it's not the worst either. With good snows on it ground clearance should be your only enemy.

There are plenty of tips you can find on this board as well as the net in general. Here's what I've figured out in my years of driving in the snow

• You need snow tires on all 4 corners. (that's done).
• Even with snow tires the car will slip and spin when pushed. Learn to get used to that. Never fear it. Some slip is normal. Practice it in an empty lot.
• You need to expect far less out of the car when there is snow on the road. Seriously lower your expectations. The idea is to get where you are going.
• Torque is your enemy when accelerating in slick conditions. So get out of those gears quickly. Some call it "short-shifting" or "early shifting". The point isn't to bog the car but rather to not develop high rpm torque at the wheels. The car will develop torque far slower in 3rd than in 2nd for a given RPM. This lowers the chance of loosing traction when you apply a bit more throttle. Once you slip then you are "cooked" the wheel has to slow down, to a speed slower than where it broke free, to re-gain traction. Just let it "grunt" up the hill.
• Never "feather" the clutch to achieve the above. That's not a way to limit torque, it's just a way to spend lots of money.
• If it's "twisting as it moves so slowly upwards" then you are either in some seriously icy crap or you are "in it" too much. Remember, back off, lower the RPMs and let it take it's time up the grade.
• If your VSA light comes on at all or you detect anti-lock pulses then you are simply exceeding the speed for your conditions. Plain and simple VSA, ABS, whatever... they fall backs period. Don't use them as driving aids. ABS is great for some situations but it can seriously lengthen your stopping distance in slick conditions.

Yup, the above isn't much "fun" at all but it will keep you going. Just get through the crappy season w/o any damage.

But, when nobody else is around the car can be some serious fun in the snow. The car seems to drift and plow just like any other FWD car. I know I said VSA isn't a driving aid but I did try a WOT accel in the snow and it is very impressive how straight and quickly the car got going. The big problem was there was no way I could ever stop the car very quickly if I needed to do so. Seriously not recommended for daily driving but did illustrate how VSA can work (when miss-used).

 

^^^ Good advice! you must have throught many snowy seasons!

 

that is good advice to know.

I'm just wondering does the lsd in the 6speeds have any negative effects on why the car performs bad in snowy and icy conditions?

 

Uphill in a FWD really kills traction.

 

I am running Dunlop Winter Sport 3D's on my TL and I find the car to be very good in the snow.

Driving uphill will favor a rear wheel drive car when using the same tires but overall the FWD car should have a slight edge.

 

consult your owner book for more driving tips particular to the TL and its many helper systems- maybe staring uphill in 2nd gear to reduce torque and wheel spin
The TCS has an upper speed limit at which point it stops working-figuring you have control now~ check the book for gen3 speed
(its 20k/16mph on gen2)
You may be fooling the computer on wheel speed vs rpm and activating a brake or more
Learn about the brakes and Traction systems- you will be surprised to find that the car is trying to outdrive you!!

Get OUT of the throttle
Drive it like there is an egg under the gas pedal- and you dont want to break it~
Same with the brakes....plan ahead- dont stomp the pedal- the sudden pedal pulsing is ABS working--because you are on the pedal too hard!!
Go somewhere open and safe and test these things out at low speed- know your car!!

Check the tire pressure is right for snow- the tire installers may have them too high, that will cause loss of traction

Always go slow enough that you can stop- or whats the point?

There are winter driving schools at local racetracks or car clubs,
check the internet for more info- have a pro driver coach you --then you can outdrive the idiot who is sliding towards you sideways--

 

Its a hell of a lot better than rear wheel drive.

 

My TL base 08 TL with stock MX, are not bad in snow, but stick when thier is even a little bit of ice. If im driving and thier is couple of inches of snow the car is perfect, all of a sudden thier is a patch of ice, well thier goes ur traction. Oh and if your street is foot or over of snow dont bother, you will get stuck right when u get in thier. That happend last march, had to pull it out with the 4x4Envoy.

 

I have the Graspic DS-2 and live in hilly snow country and they work fine .. Mind you I have an auto. One of the keys to winter driving is how well your brain and your foot are linked. We got 8" of snow Friday and I came through it ok.
Here is a pix of my back yard .




Veiw from my front window , I live 4 blocks from town .. takes 16 blocks of switchback driving to get home.

 

Never said it wasn't.

 

new tires need 100 miles or so to get broken in, the various glues and resins whatevers to get baked out...give them a chance-
and read the book- then practice practice practice-

 

Michael in Montreal, I know this is repeating something that's already been said...but check you tire pressure. We had snows put on my dad's car and they never adjusted the pressure. They felt horrible, then we checked the tire pressure and they were 8psi lower than recommended! I filled them up with air and it's a night and day difference. I just looked at the date of the thread lol I'm a little late to the party.

 

I thought it was better to lower the psi 5 under recommend, for better traction?

 

I love the Tl with Blizzaks! Question for you Adobeman? Have you ever had the Blizzak mod.# LM-25? It is like the high performance one. I have a chance to get a set (4) of the WS-50's like yours for $40 ea. I was wondering if you would trade the higher traction of the 50's for the higher speed better handling of the LM-25's? Hope you have some input here. Anyone Else? Feel free to put your in here.....

 

In the winter I would take better traction over higher speed rating and handling. Higher speed only gets you further into the ditch.

 

"Is it just me, or is my 6-speed manual 2008 Type-S not good at all in snowy or icy conditions." -Mike in Montreal

Mike, I hear ya. And it's not just you. I also own a 6MT 08 Type S and agree it is much poorer in the snow than I expected (esp for a FWD car). In fact, I got on the forum to research rims as I plan to put winter ice/snow tires on the car (maybe on stock rims and plus 1 perf tires for other 3 seasons). I ran the car thru a light winter last year here in PA, but on the stock tires.

There are some good general driving tips for the snow in this thread, and thanks for those. We should also recognize that the 6MT Type S has a different powertrain (ie limited slip) and suspension than other varieties of TLs so it is not surprising that it could react differently. Of course, auto cars behave differently in the snow (eg, an auto Mustang GT is easier to drive in the snow than a MT version) as the driveline never disegages to make a gear change.

I was hoping the winter tires would make a (BIG) difference, but disappointed to see you already had winter tires and the car still gave you little confidence in the snow. Disappointed, but not surprised. I've driven many cars over the years, both RWD (eg Mustang GT) and FWD (eg Pontiac Grand AM and Nisssan Maxima), and in variety of configs - all eg cars were stick, but also drove auto (eg Taurus SHO), and with/without chains/belts (this goes back a bit), winter tires, etc. The Type S TL in no way runs thru the snow as good as other FWD cars I have driven. And I recognize the differences. For example, the Type S is a high-powered FWD car that requires a computer to limit torque steer in low gears. The Grand AM was a manual low-power 4cyl car with smaller diam and thinner tires (which are better in the snow!)- it was my snow beater. But I was also "fearless" in my Maxima with 16" Blizzacks or even Michelin winter performance tires! I like driving in the snow, and it can even be fun (if you are the only one on the road). There were times I would be stuck following 4WD cars like Subarus in the snow and wonder why we could not go faster, because I knew I could. Granted, I'm not nuts and looking to be a ditch, but it was clear those drivers did not have confidence in their car. This is me now. And the irony is that one of the reasons I figured to buy this car over others (G35, BMW 335, etc) is that being FWD it would be better in the snow (ie more practical)! LOL.

I'm gonna buy the winter tires / rims, and give it a try this season. But if there is not much improvement, I might be looking for a winter beater (or ask for more work at home days) as I don't want to wrap my nice Type S around a pole!

I'd be curious to hear from other Type S owners - both auto and 6MT to hear about your experience and winter setup.

 

I think its because of the large width rim on the TL, the smaller the footprint the easier the car will get through winter.

This year i'm downsizing my rim to a 16x6.5 with a 205/60 as the stock 8 inch width tire is horrible for winter (from last years winter experience). I know you MT guys have limited options with the brembos but i think this is the heart of the problem.

 

"Right on" with the downsize as good option to improve traction. What rim did you pick for 16s? How did you make out with the fit / look - any pix?

Agree the low-profile, wide tire is no good in the snow. As I noted, one reason my wife's Grand Am was so good was b/c it had tall, narrow tires (and they were all season, not winters!). And so my research started there with 16" option.. ...

But from what I seen confirmed on the forum, no 16" is gonna fit on my S. So I'll have to get the best studless ice/snow tire I can fit on 17x8s. Which has me now looking at upgrade to 18" Ronjon Legends for summer combo. (Maybe this is the start of "upgrade fever"????).

But tire size aside, IMO the 6MT S puts down the power in way that limits winter driveability more so than other TLs, or other cars - for eg, my 2000 Nissan Maxima 5MT, (and IMO to a level well below what I had hoped for a daily driver). I have been disappointed with the TQ steer (annoying!- will save my complaining for car talk forum) in the dry, so snow is that much worse!