chayos00

So this thread was created to move my issues away from the Racing ATF thread in the performance zone. It is a series of a few posts combined.

First Post
I did the 3x3 with the Type F on my car. My wife has even now mentioned that she feels it lunging. Now with mine I only feel the lunging when I am just causally driving. When I romp it, it feels smooth. I switched the fluids back around the end of November, this lunging has started to feel more and more pronounced. It feels like it lunges the car forward then shifts and you can feel it, it's quite annoying actually, anything I could do? I have about 3.5K miles driven with the Racing ATF now. Since it's my wife's car, I'm not really sure which gear it does it in, but I can feel it lunging in more than one gear. I will have to drive it today to try and pinpoint when it's doing the lunging.

Since my car is a 2007 I never looked in the 3rd & 4th gear pressure switches, should I look into doing them before going back to the Redline D4 or whatever is the recommended other fluid? Do you think the switches will help at all with the car? Fluid levels are at the proper location on the dipstick.

The car has 44.5K on the OD, the first transmission flush was with 40,866 miles on the car.

Second Post
So when I stopped to get gas, I found that the oil level was an 1/8th of an inch below the low mark on the dipstick. So this is the second time since the switch that this has happened. So when I get home tonight and I will top off the levels, hopefully that will clear up the lunging.

Either way should I still look into the pressure switches?

Third Post
As far as the fluid level goes, I've been a mechanic for a while, so I can tell you the fluid level was accurately. Now on the way home from the in-laws tonight both my wife and I really payed close attention to the way it shifted. The 2 to 3 shift is where the problem lies, there is a noticeable 500 rpm slip when it shifts.

I topped off the tranny fluid and took it for a spin, didn't fix the problem. So now I am really wondering if its either a pressure switch or the clutch pack. I tried shifting in auto and manual shifting, manual shifting was fine initially and now it's showing the slipping too.

I bought 10 quarts of Redline D4 today in case i need to switch out the ATF fluid, as I don't want Acura to say sorry you used Type F tranny fluid.


Do you think I need to switch the fluids over before taking the car in?




YouTube video's added.

Phone was being slow so I just caught it right after it had already shifted into second, the 2-3 shift is the noticeable shift slip.
http://www.youtube.com/user/chayos00.../1/YqDeJl3DG3w


Sitting at the light waiting for it to turn green, the 2-3 shift is the noticeable shift slip.
http://www.youtube.com/user/chayos00.../0/mrGINBbb3Fc

Inaccurate

What ever you do, DON'T tell them that you have Racing ATF in there. "Don't ask, don't tell."

"That's Z1 in there".... and stick to your story *if* they ask. If they question (which I doubt) why the fluid looks so fresh, tell them that you did a single drain/refill with genuine Honda Z1 fluid to see if the fresh fluid would stop the lunging.

The Racing ATF is meant for firm shifts to reduce wear. If you or the wife can't tolerate the firmness, then you may need to consider going back to Z1. You can safely switch back to Z1. Just do a 3x3 with the Z1.

I understand your dilemma. I wanted to add the Racing fluid to my wife's Acura RL. I did a single fill with the Racing ATF and then waited for a few months to see if she would complain. She didn't say anything about harsh shifts. So, I did another fill with Racing ATF. Waited for a few more months.

But, I am fortunate that my wife was not sensitive to the harsh shifts. And, it does shift much more firmly when I drive it.

chayos00

When I called the Acura service department today, the guy mentioned it might need a tranny flush. I told him I used D4 (even though that's not true) but I can always say the D4 says it is compatible fluid. As that is what Redline states. So that is why I am a bit nervous, do I do a drain and fill before I go to the dealer and just swear up and down its D4?

As far as the firmness she never noticed anything till the tranny started to slip. I mean I could totally tell but she couldn't.


Thanks for chimeing in Inaccurate.

Inaccurate

Let the dealership take ownership of the problem. That is, let the dealer do what ever they want to fix the problem.

But as a side note, trans flushes with a machine are not recommended by Acura.

Time to change transmission fluid? (click here)
Auto-trans fluid change method? (click here)


STOP VOLUNTEERING INFO TO THE DEALER ABOUT WHAT FLUID IS IN THERE !!!!!

One of the hardest things that I had to learn in life (and I'm still relearning sometimes) is that the LESS that a person says, the BETTER.

Back to the "ownership" discussion - You need to go back to Z1 and whatever else the dealer wants to do to get you back to a properly functioning trans. Pending what the resolution will be, you can later decide if you want to try the Racing ATF again. But after this, I can understand your reluctance to "not go there again".

Wishing you good luck

Dino81

best advice EVAR!learn it, live it!

usmarinedelta

iTrader: (1)

Dang when I saw this thread title I was like alot more people are having issues with this fluid but alot more have had success. I really don't think it's the pressure switches, I swapped mine out for the first time at 88k miles and didn't notice a thing. The funny thing is that you said it started to happen shortly after the fluid change. Inaccurate said that the shifts are suppose to be quicker and firmer hence feeling the shift however I spoke with IHC and he said that he can't even notice the car shift when his gf was driving it. I know you said your a mechanic but I highly suggest you check the fluid levels again. Like IHC said, most shifting problems are related to fluid levels. I thought my car was under filled and added more/less. Like I said, look for a solid line going across the dip stick not the bubble or drop on the bottom of the stick. Look very closely, the line is perfectly flat on both sides indicating where it sits in the fluid exactly.

Majofo

2-3 shift is not pressure switch related. Does it slip in ss mode on 2-3? I have a similar issue in the X (running z1), it slips on 1-2, and 2-3 to a lesser extent, but not in ss mode.

jda123

It is not the fluid, it is the transmission.

Did you ever do the pressure switches? Do them and report back.

Are you under warranty or have any other reason to even talk to the dealer?

chayos00

When I got back home I had put almost another quart of fluid in the car, drove the car around for about 5 minutes and checked it again. As far as the level, I know not to base it off the fluid that is on the sides as that is the fluid from the sides of the tube. Tonight when I get home I will take the car out drive it for 10 minutes and then using a magnetic level I will attach it to the frame, level the car, and then check the fluid level and take a pic for you. Also the fluid is now in the two holes on the dipstick now.

chayos00

I looked last night the powertrain warranty is up to 70K, or 50K for all other warranties. So after double checking the levels tonight I am going to setup an appointment to have the dealer fix it, so why pay for switches if it may not be the fix.

chayos00

Initially the tranny did not slip in the "manual shifting" mode, but driving it yesterday it did slip everytime.

chayos00

So can anyone tell me if a dealer has anyway to tell which tranny fluid your car has in it? Short of sending the oil in for analysis? Plus would they go to that level of investigation?

I hate cars

No way to tell unless its sent for analysis and then its a guessing game comparing additives.

I think you're making a mistake by not doing the switches first and going back to Z1. Regardless of whether it solves the problem, it needs new switches at this age.

chayos00

Ok, I kinda thought that about the ATF. When i get the car back if they don't change the switches out, I will do them.


So I called Acura to setup a time to drop off the car and get a loaner. I have to wait till next Monday to get a loaner, so I will be there at 7am with the car waiting. Either way I hope it doesn't become a pain to deal with!

Gonna go out now warm up the tranny fluid and check the level one more time.

chayos00

So drove the car around tonight just to heat up the fluid and take a pic of the fluid level so someone would believe me.

Level before JPG edit to show past levels.


Blue indicates level before fillup.

Yellow indicates level that fillup went to.

Orange indicates level that tranny was at w/ car leveled to frame and happened to be these same not leveled to frame. Looks as if I could loose a bit of fluid, guess that tiny bit left in the bottle does make a difference.

I will check the fluid levels one more time after it's driven again. Not sure if only 10 miles and a romp on the freeway at 80 is different from 30 minutes of driving from work @ 55mph.

Inaccurate

My eyes are playing tricks with me.

What is this in your pic that I outlined in red? My eyes can not recognize what I am looking at.


I would also recommend checking the level in BRIGHT sunlight and using a magnifying glass.

I have changed the atf in my TL exactly 21 times since I have owned it (since Janaury 2006). In everyone of those 21 times, I have added EXACTLY 3 quarts to refill it. The 3 qts puts the level in the middle between those two holes (Low and Full holes). If a person was having problems reading their atf level, I would recommend drain the atf and then adding 3 qts AND THEN SLAM THE HOOD CLOSED. Don't even pull the dipstick... just close the hood after adding the 3 qts.

chayos00

Okay, the fluid level is fine. I know how to check the fluid level, I fully understand how fluid can creep up the side of the dipstick. Versus where the top of the fluid level line is. Either way the fluid level is not low! With the excessive lighting I installed in my garage I can clearly see the fluid level. It just happens to be that the camera had a hard time focusing for the picture.

Inaccurate

Agree. The level does seem to rise quickly on the stick when a relatively small amount more is added.

Thanks for explaining that spot in the pic. My brain was thinking that the black background was an asphalt driveway. And, the area around my red lines was the bent tip of the dipstick........ wtf .

Now in retrospect at what I was thinking.

chayos00

yeah when I saw the pic on the computer later it took me a moment to realize what it was too.

chayos00

Well since my fluid level was high, tonight I was going to drain some fluid out of the tranny to make the level right, well after I dropped the plug in the oil pan I let it all flow out and just did a drain and fill. Fluid was nice and bright red, still "clear", only a slight bit of "sludge" on the drain plug.

Well after refilling with 3 new bottles of Redline Racing ATF. I took it for a spin to heat up the fluid to check the level. Well what I found after I got back home was that the level was again low, it was below where the blue line was on the dipstick from my previous picture. (About 1/8th-1/4" lower that the bottom hole.)

Last drain and fill I did the level was perfect, this time I had to add more than 3 quarts to the tranny. Unfortunately I didn't have any more Type F, but I had D4 so I used some of that to get the level right. I think I was close to 3.25-3.5 quarts to get it to the bottom mark.

Any thoughts, and YES the fluid level is accurately read. I will double check the level after my little top off after getting to work in the AM.

Inaccurate

How are you doing the drain? For example when I do mine, I have the front end of the car lifted up on jack stands. I let the bulk drain out. Then, I replace the big drain pan with a small shallow pan. I lower the car to the ground and let another cup (approx 8 oz) drain out. In other words, I drain all the fluid possible with the car positioned level to the ground.

It seems that you are somehow getting more than this to drain out. Hence, this would cause it needing more than 3 qts to refill.

Also, how long has the car been turned off before you did the drain. I always start my engine for a few seconds to fill the converter with fluid immediately before doing the drain. There is a small chance that some additional fluid could drain out from the converter over night and cause you to drain more than 3 qts.

I am just shooting in the dark at this point to solve your mystery

I hate cars

I completely agree. Mine drains out a little overnight, maybe 1/4 quart. I always start it for a few seconds before checking. Also, I've seen some non TLs literally lose a couple quarts out of the converter in a minute. I thought Acura's way of checking withthe engine off was nice but now I'm thinking it would be better if we could check it with the engine running to avoid the drain back issues. Regardless, as you said, checking it immediately upon shut down should give accurate results.

chayos00

sorry I forgot to answer your question earlier. as far as the draining I used a floor jack in the front end to lift it then after undoing the drain plug I drop the car all the way back down. plus I shut the engine off like 2 minutes prior to the drain, after a good 15 minutes of driving (as I went to get some tacos to eat white it was draining). I didn't open the fill plug this time, I just uncorked the dipstick hole to assist the drain. I was just wanting to get to the food sooner as it was around 8pm and I was hungry. so then about 15 minutes later I stopped the drain as it was just dribiling at that point. I then added my 3 quarts of redline racing atf and drove it 10 miles and then parked it where I normally check the level and it was low on the dipstick, so I then preceded to add more tranny fluid to bring it to just over the bottom hole, as I didn't want to over fill it again. the next day when I got home from work I checked the level again and it was just a hair under the bottom hole on the dipstick. good enough for now till Acura looks at the car on monday.


also D4 smells different than the type f fluid, the d4 stinks more so, the type f smells better.

chayos00

UPDATE

Dropped off the car at the dealer this morning at 7:30 by 9:30 I had a voicemail saying they were going to replace the transmission. Should be ready either Tuesday night or Wednesday. I asked about which tranny fluid the car will get and thy stated the new fluid not the Z1. So I'm wondering if I should flush that and drop in the D4. Or I might wait as my wife is debating about getting rid of the car, either a 2012 TL or the Infinite G37.

xfw55

what i say here is just my opinion.... nothing agaist others or that i know much about transmissions...
So my 06TL navi does the same thing from 2nd to 3rd around 3000 ~ 3500 rpm, but not as much rpm as urs and it doesnt happen all the time, {{this problem already started when i was using honda Z1 that i always used but not that noticeable}} so when i did 3x3 with type F readline(2 lightweith 1 regular) and both pressure switch sensors with ECU reset did not fix this problem, everything is smooth when slip is not happening, gear switch are faster than it used to be, it does hold pretty well too no power loss even when "slipping" happened, it still pulls harder compared to Z1 fluid when car is heat soaked....
i consider "slipping" as " shift delay"... why? i saw ur clip, after that extra 500rpm the gear was holding firmly, same like mine but 100rpm instead of 500, it feels like a shock, like when u switch from N to D with little higher RPM about 150rpm more by pressing gas pedal(dont recommend doing it), not necessary that hard pull feeling, but more crispier feel with very little pull, and i only notice shift quality issues, no problems with gear holding all the way to 5000 rpm from 2nd to 3rd...
when i was using Z1 fluid this kind of problem wasnt that much significant for me because my fluid was dark too, and it did not feel as crisp as now with type F fluid.....Z1 lets some slippage happen so in certain conditions u wont feel anything wrong even if there are things wrong, because theres no suddent torque loss and gain, same with engine RPM since it goes up down according transmission resistance, but type F wont allow as much slippage as Z1 does, so now i can feel the flattened out curve by Z1 using type F, now that i have noticed there is a problem is too late for me, guess what when i called acura about my powertrain issues...i was so close, but out of warranties anyways...(105.000km) i think this is why when honda transmission break, it deffinetly breaks ... every problem start as little issue, then becomes a pain in the ass if u dont fix it or dont notice it..., Z1 makes it so smooth that u dont even know if theres any problems, guess thats honda strategy to lower their liabilities....
gotta find out what is wrong with my transmission now... 4000km already with type F fluid, other than gear switch issues, everything is exellent.

chayos00

Update

So the tranny wasn't in stock in the LA warehouse, so they are getting it from the next available warehouse. Supposedly it should be here today, with being completed tonight or early tomorrow.

chayos00

Guess what, another day with no replacment tranny. They are starting to sound like a broken record. "It will be on the truck here tomorrow."

VQPower37

sucks to have to wait but atleast they are putting in a new tranny for u

KaMLuNg

iTrader: (5)

good luck on the new tranny... did the dealer give you any other detail as to why the tranny crapped itself?

VQPower37

did they atleast give u a loaner to drive around in?

hleapha

Sweet, getting a new tranny is a pretty sweet ending to this story. I use Redline Type F and am sticking to it, but I do wonder what the new honda fluid is like. I''m sure they took out some friction modifiers.

chayos00

Well I got the car back tonight, and I have come to a conclusion that I think I'm gonna stick with the new DW-1 fluid and just make sure to change it every 2nd or 3rd oil change.

Majofo

I'm interested in the new fluid. I'm guessing it's similar, with slightly modified additives to z1. Glad you're running again OP. If you stick with OE ATF, I would keep an aggressive oci on it.. maybe drain and fill every 10k miles or so.

kingkong_dav

you used the wrong trans fluid. use only a dex 3 type fluid only as a temporary replacement. dont bother anything else.

Majofo

I hate cars

You've got a lot of learning/reading to do.

chayos00

Damned computer froze I was typing up the edit that I was typing.

So I think that I like how the car shifts smoother than the other ATF did. I don't really trust the Racing ATF anymore. I'd rather try the D4 for it's better quality base oil than the Honda fluid. IDK....

So I'm not sure what I'm going to do, I might get rid of the TL. As I have lost faith in Acura's reliability. My wife and I are debating about switching to a 2011 Infiniti G37 Sedan.

So I am glad the tranny is replaced and done and over with.

What is really funny is the list of recommended services, mainly they mentioned a transmission service. When I saw that I was thinking, WTF you just changed the F**KING tranny! Idiots!

Either way, guess it's time to break it the tranny and see how she goes!

chayos00

Glad you noticed that too, I was like WTF really!

Hey kingkong_dav, Acura only recommends their fluid, I have yet to see them mentioned using any thing else. Plus the service guy mentioned that if something else was used other than the Z1 or now their new DW-1 it may cause an issue. So I highly doubt acura would say try the GM fluid.

I hate cars

Base oil is not the problem. Changing the fluid every 1,000 miles won't help much. Too much FM is the problem. You ran the car on Z1 it's whole life except for the last little bit and when it fails you lose faith in the racing fluid since that's what was in there. Look around at the thousands of early failures on Z1 and try and find a failure on the racing fluid. You got unlucky and it sucks but the fluid was not at fault. D4 is still a lot better than Z1, if you're going to sell it anyway, whatever makes it shift better is probably the best to use.

Just saying that if you decide to keep it, at least use the D4 or Amsoil ATF or some form of DexIII to help it live. At least you got it replaced now, you can run a good, lower FM formula from the beginning now so you should never have to worry about the trans again.

chayos00

I can tell you one thing about the Racing ATF, I was starting to not like how it grabbed when it went into gears, just felt too stiff. (Lower RPM driving) I hated when I started feeling the torque converter lock and unlock as I would drive. Just a bit smoother would of felt better to me, which was why I'm thinking of using the D4 versus the Racing ATF. The more I think about it, IDK about using the Honda fluid, even the new fluid. So I do have to agree with not using their fluid.

If by next weekend I still have the car I will start the D4 3x3. Since it's sitting in the garage already. I do have to wonder how much less FM is in this new fluid of Honda's the DW-1, wish I could of gotten the dealer to use the D4 instead of that stuff in the tranny when they filled it up. (They would of laughed at me)

So I wonder what all was replaced, like just the transmission or is the torque converter included in that too. Also would the switches be included. My paperwork shows:
Several spots show "Corrected by218102, 221001, & 221002"
"Installed 06200-RDG-H00RM :Warranty A/T Kit" QTY 1 <--- wonder what this is exactly....
"Installed 08200-9001B :Fluid ATF DW-1 Bulk" QTY 9