i need some serious help. i have an 04 tl manual-45,000 miles. i am replacing the rear pads and rotors do to a grinding noise i was hearing. so i get the wheel off and the caliper removed. i remove those stupid screws that hold the rotor onto the hub and insert two screws into the rotor to pop it off the hub. but instead of pulling it off the hub it is pulling the hub with it. first off i have never replaced rotors that were held on with a screw, and second all the rotors i replaced before this just pulled off. this 2 hour job at max has turned into 2 very frustrating nights trying to get these rotors off, since they are completely gone. i am guessing they are the original rotors. so my first question is how do i get the rotors off? the second is what is in the hub? is it the e-brake? what do i have to worry about when the hub started separating the hub away along with the rotor? i also have the problem with the grinding noise that made me do all this in the first place. i believe its comming from the inside of the hub.

thanks.

 

Take a hammer and hit the rotor from the backside all around. I remember I changed brakes on an 04 accord Coupe in College, had to use a 20lb sledge hammer to get that rotor off

Good luck

 

what about the hub? it is stuck to the rotor.

 

This is a picture of the hub assembly:
http://info.rockauto.com/BCA/Detail2...512188_BAC.jpg

The hubs are held on by the axle nut and it shouldn't be coming off with the rotor. To break the rotor from the hub, install the lug nuts onto the end of the studs to protect the threads, then hit around the studs with a hammer to break the rust loose.

 

would it be a suprise that they are comming off. that is in fact what is happening and i don't know what to do, that is my dilema.

 

Surpise? Just think, if the hubs are coming off with the rotors, as soon as you drive the car the hubs would come off and the wheels would fall off!

 

they are pulling away. its scary i know. so if i bang away to loosen up the rotors what do i need to do to make sure the hubs are good to go. when i put the bolts into the screw holes to pop the rotor off it pulled the hub with it and broke off two fastners on the back of the heat shield.

 

Take a picture.

 

i will tonight when i get home from work.

 

You put bolts into the screw holes?!!! Huh???? Those screws are nothing, they will not be reused when you place new rotors on.

But Im still confused in you saying that you placed bolts into the screw holes?!!!

 

there are two screw holes besides the ones that have the useless factory screws. you screw into them and it is supposed to break the rotor loose from the hub.

 

Yeah, we need pictures.
The bolts you are using should 8 x 1.25mm. Turn each 1 to 2 turns at a time or the disk could cock and bind. They bottom out against the hub flange so I don't see how they could pull the hub off or in any way be doing anything near the shields behind the disk.

 

Spray some rust penetrant and let it sit for 10 minutes. This should help a little bit, then use a hammer lke the others said, but careful not to hit the studs.

 

Dont forget to grease the hub and disk where they bolt up, to prevent rust in the future, and to aid in heat transfer.

I also grease the wheel to disk area for the same reasons.

Brett

 

i dont know how it can pull it away either. is this an actual diagram from an 04 tl's rear brakes? this looks like front brakes. it is pulling something, and it won't come off. i can see from the part that is pulling away springs and a gear in the center. this is all behind the rotor. i wasn't able to get pics last night i had a football scrimage to get my kid to but i should be able to tonight.

 

My bad, that's the front. I don't think the rear is significantly different with respect to the hub and the disk. Yes, there is all the e-brake crap but fundamentally the two bolts will push on the flange of the hub.

BUT That "gear" is the adjuster for the e-brake. Have you backed off the e-brake shoes? I'd be surprised if the e-brake shoes bedded into the drum so much as to hang up the removal but if they did then that would definitely pull on the rear shields since that's where the e-brake shoes pivots are connected to. With traditional drum brakes the shoes cut into the drums and prevent drum removal until you back off the shoes with the adjuster. the e-brake is a drum brake. Since it isn't used when the wheels rotate (or shouldn't be) it usually doesn't cut into the drum part of the rotor. Sounds like yours have If so, I fear you've done some damage to the alignment of the e-brake parts. Probably nothing that can't be bent back.

 

Yeah thats exactley what is going on. if you notice an earlier post of mine, i stated that those rivets that hold it togather snapped off when i inserted the screws to remove the rotors. i have no idea how it happened but it did. if i rotate the tires there is a grinding noise that i beleive to be comming from the ebrake drum. that is the whole reason i started this project. i bought the car wholesale in may. it needed some work so i bought stuff to repair the brakes when i got the car. when i heard the grinding i knew it was time to replace the brakes, they needed it. but i am sure that the grinding is comming from the ebrake drum. can you get me a diagram of the rear brakes and the ebrake. i looked all over when this mess fell into my lap and searched all over but couldn't find anything.

 

I never had mine apart yet, but all the setups I have looked at, you can pull the disk/drum off by hand, and should never use anything else.

You have to have the emergency brake off, and on real worn stuff unload the adjuster to allow the brake shoes to clear the drum.

With the disk and drum setup, the caliper has to be off.

Brett

 

so the drum should slide off the hub as well as the rotor

 

its the same piece- the inner center part of the rear rotor has a raised edge when you look at it on the car- thats the brake drum hub for the Park brakes!
They are NOT emergency brakes- when you see the size, you will know why

If -with the park brake system OFF, and the caliper and bracket removed,
you cannot turn the rotor easily- with slight drag, by hand-
Then you need to move the adjuster access hole -the rubber plug on rotor center- to the bottem of rotation, and then use a very small screwdriver to back the star wheel adjuster off a few clicks
Make sure to clean and lube the adjustment mechanism

It can take some severe whacks with the deadblow hammer to get the rust free of the center connection- make sure to caliper grease that when assembling
- Spray with Deep Creep or penetrating lube of choice and try again

 

On everything I ever worked on, yes.
Most cars that have the disk/drum setup have the disk and drum as one piece, but I have not looked at the back brake setup on our TL yet.

Some cars have a screw holding the disk and/or drum on, that is for safety at the factory I am told, so they dont fall off on the assembly line.

Some cars use the actual rear brake pads on a disk setup as the emergency brake, most subaru's do that I think.

Most cars I have worked on, you could get the drum off, but it was tight, and it worked much better to release the adjuster a few turns.
But since a disk/drum setup does not use the drum brakes as brakes, there should be NO wear on the parts, and the drum should pull off easy.

I cant say anything about why something in the drum would be making noise or if it would cause problems getting the drum off.
If something went awry, its possable the brakes could drag and wear out and cause removal problems.

Brett

 

01tl4tl - yes, parking brake, not e-brake. I should know better


jay.sass - "rivets that hold it together", you don't mean the retaining screws I hope (called flat screws in the diagram). Got it wholesale, perhaps the prior owner loved to do stunt turns (think any chase in the A-Team) using the parking brake.

Here are the diagrams

 

thanks, for all the info. i will be leaving work soon and will attempt this once again. i will post my hopeful success when i get it all done.

 

Its going to slide right off after one tap- thats always the way!

 

ok, i got both rotors off. they are replaced as well as the pads. happy about that. for some reason the ebrake pads were like stuck to the rotor. in the effort to remove the rotors i broke off the tension pins seen in the diagram above. now i have a perma grind, and no ebrake. anyideas what i can do to replace those and get this car back to normal?

 

Just buy new pins and fit them.

Brett

 

The pins hold the shoes in position, twist and lock in position, they are seperate pieces, have you worked on brakes before??

Brett

 

As I've never seen or heard of anyone breaking the pins, I'd say this is must be his first attempt.

Best suggestion, buy a repair manual for future reference.

 

You bought it wholesale, any chance this a flood car? Rear discs being "completely gone", as you describe, at 45K? Then shoes bonded to the p-brake drum ?

 

i don't think so it was from chicago. this is my first rear disk brake change. i have only changed front discs. i guess i didn't think they would be that much different. i think i would have been fine if i could have found a diagram of the rear brakes, once i got that i was good to go. do i have to buy those pins from an acura dealership, or could i get them from any autoparts store?

 

acura has the pins

chicago! thats like living in a salt lake for the car!
There are extra things to grease with severe winter cars to prevent lockup like this