Hi everyone,

For the last half year I have been experiencing the weirdest problem with my 2005 TL 6MT w/ 79,000 miles: a Phantom belt noise. I am starting to run out of options, and am close to throwing parts at the problem. I have already tried searching the forums for this issue and have found some helpful threads, but nothing documenting an issue as annoying or frustrating as this one. Beware, the following post will represent a small novel documenting both my friend's and my own frustration with this problem. If you manage to read through the whole thing, I really appreciate the effort.

The noise started last summer in May after the car was sitting for a few days. Before I could get around to looking at it, the noise stopped and I wrote it off as crap accumulating on the pulleys and causing the belt to slip. The accessory belt at the time was relatively new and had about a year and a half of use on it and 8,000 miles distance (it was also an OEM belt, not aftermarket).

Occasionally (maybe once every two weeks) between last summer and mid December I would hear a very slight belt noise on startup, but it would be very quiet and quickly disappear within two or so seconds.

In mid December (after about 4,000 miles) the noise returned, this time accompanied by an alternator-like whine throughout the cabin. I figured this noise was so visceral because of my 62A engine mounts, but it made me nervous that it might be something worse than the alternator or belt tensioner assembly. With the help of my friend, we removed the accessory belt and ran the engine without the belt. Sure enough, we could not reproduce the noise regardless of how much I revved the motor. Once we re-installed the belt, the noise returned and continued the same as before. Therefore, we decided the problem resided within the accessory belt and the pulleys it rides on.

Spinning each of the pulleys individually did not result in any sound whatsoever. Thus, I decided to replace the belt tensioner and idler pulley assembly. I did not realize it at the time, but there is a wear indicator for the tensioner and I never checked it. So whether or not it was actually bad is impossible to determine as the tensioner seemed to look OK and provide adequate tension on the accessory belt. In addition, I replaced the belt with an OEM belt.

Once again, the belt noise disappeared and seemed to permanently stay dead and defeated. That was until February came around and the noise returned yet again. This time we tried applying belt dressing which alleviated the noise at idle. However, revving the motor made the noise return. Upon cleaning the crank pulley, the noise finally died again. I was not willing to admit victory yet because it seemed to be too easy of a solution.

So mid February rolls around and unfortunately the noise returns again.

"Holy ****!" I think to myself. My friend was just as frustrated as I was. He has a lot of experience working on cars and currently works on buses at our shop, so he's encountered his fare share of weird issues. We've both seen some extraordinarily weird problems with buses due to their complexity, but never have we both been so annoyed by any single problem that they present. My friend joked: "This is why I like working on buses." Funny man.

Anyways, before I start ranting we decided that replacing the alternator would be a good place to start because of the whining noise and the fact it was easiest component to replace. Plus, it has nearly seven years of use on it, so worse comes to worse I'm just replacing something that will fail in the near future. We replaced the alternator on February 16th.

And so, once again, the noise disappears.

Oh, but what is that noise in the distance?

For the fourth time, the belt noise returned. It returned last Friday (March 1st) after an hour long drive on the highway. This issue has frustrated me to the point that I am going to bother you guys about it. It most likely is not anything severe, however I have not performed the timing belt service yet - so I am starting to wonder if it is something in the timing housing which only makes a noise when under load.

To summarize the issue, here are some points:

• The sound can be heard here: Belt Noise
• The sound is a combination of a squeaking, squealing, and alternator whine
• The acoustics (pitch / loudness) do not change very much in proportion to the load on the alternator (high beams, lights, etc.) or load on the AC compressor (defroster, temperature selection, fan speed, etc.)
• Turning the wheel to lock does cause the noise to get a little louder but, as stated before, not lound enough to identify the "smoking gun"
• The alternator and accessory belt are new
• The accessory belt pulleys are clean
• The power steering recall has been completed
• There are no fluid leaks to speak of and all fluids are within spec (i.e., proper power steering and coolant levels)
• The Timing Belt and everything in the Timing housing are original
• (My mods can be seen in my signature and have little to do with the issue)

I can provide video of the noise if needed. However, I have not used the car in the last day, so whether or not the noise will return is anyone's guess. I'm going to run it tomorrow and see what happens.

I apologize for the novel, but I am starting to run out of options. Replacing random parts is not a monetary issue, but I want to solve this properly.

Any ideas or insight you guys and girls have is hugely appreciated.

 

Ill take a stab at it, sounds like youve taken the proper steps in this, for example i would of started with a new belt, and then moved on the the auto tensioner. Idk if i would of gone as far to replace the alternator but all in all not a bad idea to do for ease of mind. So my first idea is your power steering pump. Reason being, if i read correctly, it makes more noise when turning. Also if you take the belt off your power steering pump isnt engaged. Thats one thing i would look into(see if you see any minor seepage around the pump), you dont necessarily have to loose tons of fluid to have a leaky pump. Second thing i would check on is the timing belt. Mine made TONS of weird ass noises before i changed it, and the reason was a leaking hydro tensioner and the water pump's shitty plastic like pulley was being eaten away and the belt was loose causing noise. Thats my advice, I recommend first to make sure your power steering pump and all other pulleys are good and then move on to the timing belt, for some reason i have a gut feeling its to due with the timing belt, id def. take the covers off if your capable and look and make sure everything is in order. Just go ahead and service it while your in there. Good luck.

 

i would lean toward the power steering as well.

 

First off, thank you for the replies guys.

Nismo,

Thank you for your advice. I will definitely check the power steering pump first for seepage. I have suspected it may be the source of the noise, but I was under the impression the whole pump was replaced through the recall. Is this true? Or is it just some stupid o-ring that gets replaced? Because if it's the original pump, but just rebuilt, then I am would be leaning towards this as the source of the noise.

What I am thinking of trying next is using a right angle gun with a shallow socket to spin the pulleys. I am not sure if this is exactly good for the pulleys (or if it will even work), but I guess I'll find out this weekend.

I do not have experience taking apart timing housings, but my friend can give me a hand if need be. I am hoping it's not the timing belt or anything related to it, but I am planning on taking care of it this summer anyways. So if it proves to be the cause of the noise, then I will just do it a few months ahead of time.

Project,

Like I said previously, I will check out the power steering ASAP.

Thank you all for your replies again. I really appreciate the help.

 

Np man. And no under the recall the o-ring only is replace. Nothing else just the o ring. And there is a DIY on how to do the timing belt service at home. If you cant find it i will show u tomorrow when im back on my computer as i am currently on my cell phone. And please elaborate what u mean by what your going to do with your pulleys. You dont want to damage anything good luck and report back!

 

Nismo,

Gah, stupid o-ring. The power steering pump will be the first thing I check when I get a chance. I was looking through the service manual, and pulling the timing cover(s) doesn't seem to be that big of a job. However, the SM never tells you about the stupid little things you tend to run into, so I will have to take a look at the Timing Belt DIY before I go near the covers.

Is the DIY you are talking about? https://acurazine.com/forums/3g-tl-2004-2008-93/122-diy-105k-service-timing-belt-water-pump-spark-plugs-thermostat-%2Apics%2A-784622/

Also, while I was looking for the Timing Belt DIY thread, I found this: https://acurazine.com/forums/3g-tl-problems-fixes-114/diy-105-power-steering-whine-fix-754586/. I am wondering if this is related to my current problem, although I can't find any one who posted what the sound was like other than it was extremely loud and that it occurs around 60,000 miles.

I will report back with what I find. However, that will probably not be until Friday... Thank you again for your help Nismo. I appreciate it!

 

Yep thats the diy! And that o ring should of been replaced. Easy way to check, take that hose off and if the o ring isnt orange that is more than likely your whole problem. And its a easy cheap fix. Just go to acura and its like a couple bucks from them. Throw it on and tighten the hose back down. Problem solved. Thats if that recal hasent been taken care of.

 

Supposedly the recall has been performed (at least according to the Acura dealer I usually do business with). I honestly wouldn't be surprised if the o-ring is original. I am not familiar with the dealer the original owner used or their reputation. As you know, dealers tend to suck. So trusting their work, especially the work of one I am not familiar with, was / is probably a bad idea.

I will check out that o-ring ASAP. With some luck (or bad luck, haha), that will be the source of the noise. I'll keep you posted.

 

i might have an extra orange oring .. if you end up needing it send me your info and i will mail it out.

 

OP, did I miss the part where you removed the serpentine belt and started the engine? If and when you hear the noise, this should be done to try to isolate the source of the noise to a serpentine belt related part vs. the timing belt. The timing belt has pulleys and a tensioner that can make noise. I apologize ahead of time if you already did this...

 

That's very kind of you dude, but I can just pick it up from my local Acura dealer tomorrow. I really appreciate the help though

Thanks for the reply hrod. Unfortunately my friend and I tried this earlier in the year and it resulted in the noise stopping. Note, I didn't drive the car around with the serpentine belt off, but I let it idle and revved it to see if I could reproduce the noise with the serpentine belt off. We were unable to reproduce the noise in this situation.

Of course, there is the possibility that something in the timing housing only makes the noise when under load... I'm going to mess with the power steering pump first and see what I can find out. While I am there, I will also pull the timing covers and see what's going on in there. As it is, the 105 service is technically due for me because the car is seven years old. Probably something I shouldn't be chancing :/

 

Not a fan of spraying anything on the belt, etc, but throw an old belt on and when noise audible, spray lube (Slicone etc,WD40) using a spray tube, lightly, just on the inside of the belt away from any pulley to see if noise changes, if not, continue with the idle pulley, then the others one by one until the noise subsides. Only downside, everything needs to be cleaned when done.

 

Hi guys. I am sorry I have not posted back in such a long time. I have been very busy the last few weeks, and I also wanted to make sure the belt noise has (hopefully) been killed off

First off, Turbo I agree - I am not a fan of spraying stuff on the belt either. I think this ruins the belt and has a very limited chance at fixing anything. My friend and I tried this a while back, but it did not help much. At first, it relieved the problem at idle, but upon revving the engine a bit, the noise would return.

That said, I believe we have found the source and solution to the noise: the crank pulley.

Yes, I know it sounds stupid. However, after replacing the holding bolt (can't remember the specific part description), the crank pulley, and throwing _another_ belt on, the noise has disappeared completely.

Here are the steps my friend and I took to diagnose this.

1. Use belt removal tool to change tension on auto-tensioner - resulted in noise changing pitch and loudness, so it's not the timing belt
2. Remove drive belt and open timing housing and check for excessive wear on timing belt and fluid leaks - timing housing looked clean and the belt looked fine, definitely not the timing belt or anything it rides on
3. Use wire brush to check crank pulley for surface buildup - found more junk on the pulley similar to months before, looks like surface rust
4. Clean crank pulley as thoroughly as possible with brush and avoid using cleaners if at all possible
5. Check drive belt for buildup in crevices where it rides on the pulleys - there was a buildup of junk stuck in these little crevices, probably causing the belt to slip
6. Reinstall timing housing and old belt. See if noise changes or disappears - noise level went down, so it had to be something with the crank pulley

I ordered a new crank pulley, crank bolt, and drive belt. I know you can possibly clean and sandblast the pulley, but why chance that not working when you can get a brand new part?

After installing these parts, the problem went away completely. That includes no more random belt noises on startup that quickly disappear or reappear.

This is definitely one of the strangest issues I have ever seen with the TL. Unfortunately, my car tends to sit outside for days at a time, so this is probably one of the reasons why the pulley built up surface rust. This could also mean that the other drive belt pulleys will do the same over time, albeit the fact that the crank pulley is closest to the road is what probably causes it to rust the quickest. I am also somewhat hesitant to say this is what will fix the issue in the long run, but I can't argue with results.

Here are some pictures of the old crank pulley - note the small amount of rust in the grooves (click for the pictures):

Crank Pulley Grooves 1

Crank Pulley Grooves 2

Here are some pictures of the junk that was sitting in the drive belt grooves:

Junk 1

Junk 2

And finally, here are some pictures of the pulley:

Pulley 1

Pulley 2

I am hoping this helps out someone else in the future. This issue, while harmless to the car, was really annoying and frustrating to locate.

Again, thank you all for posting in my thread. I am happy to say that this problem is solved.