Hello all, I do wanna apologize in advance, I’ve been scouring this site for three days and I cannot find anyone that’s posted about this issue, but it’s still possible I’ve missed something.

I’ll try to keep this simple (lol)

I have an 06 6MT with 144k
completely stock except suspension


I was driving home after work and felt some hesitation on take off, and attributed it to my fatigue and not letting the clutch out right, well right before I got home I tried to bump the RPMs higher and it acted like it didn’t sense the input from the pedal, and it stumbled away from the stop, just barely.
The next morning is when I started having real problems.

The car will crank all day, and it’ll fire, but it will not run for more than a couple seconds IF at all.

I can run it with ether/carb cleaner but she hates it.

I have NO warning lights on the dash. No CEL, no VSA, no ABS, not even a body code flash on the HUD, and I never got any the day prior when I noticed the hesitation.

After borrowing a more advanced scan tool I found a plethora of body codes (listed)
B1007 MICU lost comm. w/ combination switch
B1005 MICU lost comm. w/ relay control module
B1006 MICU lost comm. W/ door multiplex
B1010 MICU lost comm. w/ door multiplex (headlight switch)
B1008 MICU lost comm. w/ gauge control module (A/T)
B1011 lost comm. w/ gauge control module
B1061 relay control lost comm. with gauge control
B1161 gauge control mod lost comm. w/ keyless access unit
B1060 Relay lost comm. w/ gauge control module
B1235 driver air mix door/motor
B1238 Passenger air mix door/motor
B1830 right mirror horiz. Sensor open

I should note that everything still works inside. Gauges work fine, I’ve not had issues with the blend doors on either side or the HVAC at all. the missus would surely let me know.
I’ve never had an issue with the immobilizer or my key. The fob itself has a pretty fresh battery too.

here’s what I’ve done

oil is perfect
coolant is dark but still blue
no metal shavings to be found


checked timing, had the whole cover off and triple checked the timing marks.
belt is solid (also have receipts from 15k ago)

checked every fuse and swapped every relay I can get my hands on (ign coil, IG fuel, the blue fuel pump relay)

Replaced the fuel pump

replaced the fuel pressure regulator

replaced the crank sensor

cleaned the throttle body

checked EGR and piping for clogs

pulled top 02 and tired to run, no difference.

I’ve pulled the front 02, the egr, the map sensor and the IAT sensor and tried to run it to see if they’ll set codes. They all set their respective codes, i clear them and try to start again and still nothing changes.

To avoid some already answered questions,
the immobilizer light does NOT flash while I’m cranking. It recognizes the key no problem.

The plugs (Bosch) have less than 5k on them
I’ve pulled the front three, they’re SOAKED in fuel. Clean them off and reinstall, start it and it runs for maybe 6-8 seconds now but dies again and we’re back to where we were.

the engine does not use an absurd amount of oil, and I’ve visually inspected the cats as best as I could.

I’ve done a spark test by pulling the coil with the plug in it and grounding it.

with the key on one bump, I can hear the APP engage on the passenger side and it keeps up with my foot, with the key all the way on I can hear the throttle blade follow suit with no hesitation. I’m officially stumped.

it’s got fuel, air, and spark.

After everything I’ve done and searched for I’m leaning towards swapping the ECU, but that’s not just a plug it in and test it. Plus from what I’ve gathered I’m gonna need a 6MT computer and that’s hard to come by where I’m at. So I’m hoping someone has had similar issues in the past and can point me In the right direction.

Any help is appreciated.

 

With that many unrelated codes, this is most likely electrical. Check your battery, all of your grounds, and confirm there is no moisture on the ECU in the center console.

 

The battery is good, I work at an Autozone and I’ve charged and tested it on all of our equipment to be safe. It’s also plugged into a tender while it’s been down and stuck in the garage.

I’ve visually inspected the ECU and there are no obvious signs of water damage on or around it that I can see.

I’ve checked what I hope was every ground I could find, the only one that looks rough was the passenger engine mount-to-body but I had to remove it anyway to check timing and has since been cleaned.

Its also somewhat irregular. If I leave it for a couple hours or more it’ll fire up first try and run for 2-3 seconds and then we’re back to stumbling and barley firing.
it’s almost like something is losing connection as I’m cranking it.

 

Bump

so I’ve now disconnected the fuel line at the rail and the pump and blown it out with a compressor to be sure it’s not clogged.

I’ve also bypassed ANY aftermarket type of electronics I’ve put on the car, 100% back to factory, and nothing changes.

I can’t warrant a compression test bc when it does run it sounds PERFECT. No miss, ticking, knocking, rattling, absolutely perfect, then dies with no warning lights to show as to why.

 

can you hook up a pressure gauge to the fuel rail and check it? IF the pressure is falling that would cause the issue you are having where it primes properly but does not have enough flow to continue. Try leaving the gas cap off also, sometimes the tank can have a vacuum that causes these issues.

Also be sure to check voltage at the fuel pump also, it could be a bad wire to the fuel pump that is heating and then shorting out causing the issue. IT could be a bad relay, fuse, fusebox, etc causing the issue. Sometimes a small bit of corrosion on terminals in the fuse box or on the fuses can cause issues.

Have you tried giving the fuel pump it's own separate power supply? Is the car giving data from the crank and cam sensors during cranking?

have you tried removing the accessory belt to see if there may be a stuck PS pump, alternator, etc causing issues starting?

You've done a great job trying to diagnose. My only recommendation is not to use the parts cannon, but diagnostic methods. Pine Hollow Auto Diagnostics on youtube has a lot of great videos.

 

I gotta say the “parts cannon” made me giggle lmao. Im gonna use that one.

So first off thank you, definitely some things I hadn’t thought of.

from what I’ve seen on my car, and the 5 I’ve had hands on at the scrap yard, there’s nowhere to hook up a fuel pressure tester. That being said I could be poorly mistaken but I’ve been referencing pictures I’d taken at the yard before making this reply.

after finding the pump pin out I found a continental battery on the shelf that held 12.34 V so I hooked that to the pump and had my wife crank it, but it didn’t change the way it acted at all.

I also hooked the multimeter to the pump pigtail and with key on the pump gets 12v for a two count, then when I crank the engine it is back at 12v. It appears to be getting proper power supplied.

When I changed the crank sensor and checked time I had the balancer off of the crank, so after I installed (both) crank sensors I only put the pulley back on, i didn’t put the serpentine belt on until I verified the sensor wasn’t the issue.

I’ve tried all new and used relays in the driver kick panel area, however I’ve seen some people have issues with the actual connections on the back of that panel and the bottom of the under hood panel and that terrifies me.

I’ve tried it without the gas cap, to no avail.
I also thought maybe crankcase pressure? But with the line to the PCV undone AND the oil fill cap off it still didn’t change.

I’m now considering removing the ECU, to take the cover off of it and visually inspect the inside for corrosion. Would this be inadvisable? I don’t want to have to reprogram the factory unit back to the immobilizer.
I’m no stranger to circuit boards and I have no intention to tinker, I just wanna open it and see.

 

Do you have a downloaded copy of the factory service manual? IT shows where to hookup the fuel pressure tester and also what voltages need to be where at certain times.

 

To confirm:

• The car cranks, starts, and dies after a few seconds all the time now
• The plugs are wet when checked
• The car stays on when spraying carb cleaner in the intake

It would be odd that that the plugs are wet, but still need carb cleaner to stay running.

 

Yes, you’re exactly right. I can pull the front three and clean them off and it’ll fire up immediately and run for a few seconds longer than normal, then dies. Still no CEL. The car will almost redline on carb cleaner if I’m not careful.

The plugs are Bosh, less than 5k on them, and they’re the same ones I’ve had in my 04 auto and it never had any issues with them so I don’t suspect them to be the issue.

I’ve noid light tested the passenger side front and rear injectors (the ones I can reach without removing the intake) both pulse normally and consistently. The front one is also one of the same cylinders that I can prove is flooding.

I’ve even gone as far as cleaning out the internal filter inside the pump housing.

I’ve found the special Honda tool and or adapter to test pressure at the rail, but that’s another $60 just to use once and answer a question. Yes it’d be nice to know the pressure but I can still verify it’s drenching the cylinders. If that needs to be the next test then so be it.

I seriously doubt all 6 injectors stuck open at the same time.
I don’t think it’s the ECU because the injectors pulse.
I’ve stuck my face in the tank with a headlight and don’t see any sediment.
I only run 91, my motorcycle (91) and my wife’s 2014 K24 (87 ethanol) both fill up at the same gas station.
Not religiously but I do occasionally throw an injector cleaner in when I think about it.

I feel I’ve exhausted all options, save for the specialty tools only the dealer/pricey shops have.

 

Bump

Ive just done a compression test and I’m not too happy with the results.
With all plugs pulled and gas pedal depressed,
215,225,190 ~ rear
165,230,230 ~ front

I’m pretty sure I read on here somewhere that Honda says 135 PSI is the minimum for the engine to run, but only one cylinder is considerably lower, however it’s not even close to the minimum.

so even after deep cleaning all 6 plugs it still fired right up and dies within 5 seconds.
pull a plug back out and it’s sopping wet.
something is causing it to get too much fuel, I know it’s flooding, but I can’t figure out why.

STILL no CEL

 

When fuel washes off oil film on the cylinder wall it's normal for the compression to drop.

What does the map sensor reads? You sure that some injector isn't getting stuck open?

You can rig up your own tester with some hose clamps and fuel hose. It would be great to have the plastic adapter in the right size that clicks on the fuel pump, and some metal line that goes inside the car's plastic connector.
It's been a while since I measured the fuel pressure on a Honda. But if fuel pressure drops rapidly right after shutting off the fuel pump then suspect stuck open injector.

 

So that's the thing is if it's a stuck injector, then is ALL of them because every single cylinder is flooding consistently. With my luck it could be that one in a million chance that they all went out at the same time but it's so unlikely.
I can rig up something to test pressure TO the rail, but the way they have the port set up to test pressure AT the rail, I haven't been able to MacGyver anything out.
The MAP appears to be functioning normally, I am able to unplug it and try to start the car, it'll set that code but act no differently.

 

Car will not start without MAP sensor as far as I know. Well at least one time I forgot to connect it and it didn't start.

Like you wrote, very unlikely that all 3 failed at the same time, so if they receive the "correct" signal (meaning they are not stuck open by the computer) then there's must be some other reason for flooding.

How's the coolant temp sensor? Negative 10 kelvins?

 

Right, the MAP will cause a no start issue, however I expected it to act at least a little different with it unplugged but to no avail.

I honestly don't recall the exact temp reading but I don't believe anything was erratic just at a glance. After work I'll hook the Autel back up and see what it says, but its just a matter of making sure it's reading the proper temp, right? The car will never run for more than a few seconds so it's not like I can warm her up lmao. I'll just be reading ambient temp through the coolant.

 

It's probably worth looking at the current draw and firing signal waveforms of the injectors.

 

I agree, I'm just having trouble finding ways to DIY or much less anyone in my area that can do such a thing.

 

Just another thought, I've heard of instances where full or actually overfilled gas tank and stuck or leaking evap purge valve can actually suck in raw fuel from the gas tank. No idea if that's really possible, just something to check.

Also, stuck open EGR will prevent engine from running, no idea if it will coat the spark plugs with fuel tho.

 

Have you tried disconnecting the MAF sensor? Do that first and see if there is any change. Then start disconnecting other sensors like O2s and maybe temp sensors. Stalling is commonly caused by bad signal from a sensor.

Of course this will cause CEL but just reset the codes when you are done testing

 

I thought about it some more:your exhaust could be blocked. If your cat is toasted that would be a common cause of stalling. Also if the local joker put a bunch of stuff up your tailpipes it would cause stalling.

Can you pull out the rear (downstream) O2? Also could try pulling upstream O2.

 

I assumed he tried starting it without the O2 when he said he pulled it in his OP, but I think he probably meant he disconnected it.

@FuzzyPeach134 You're going to have to take it to a shop or have a mobile mechanic to at least diagnose it.

 

yes so when I said I pulled something, I mean I disconnected it, tried to start it, cleared the code and ran it again. These J series don’t have MAF, they only have a MAP, which I have of course disconnected.

I completely removed the EGR from its mount, and tried to run yet nothing changes

I have completely removed the top O2s and tried to start hoping it would show me if the cats were clogged.

I’ve also removed, cleaned, and replaced both ground straps in the engine bay.

 

UPDATE

After being scammed by the lovely folks on Facebook (my fault) and getting an ECU off of eBay, got it in and reprogrammed and we’re back to square one.

One “mechanic” told me to pull the intake and check the valves, I’m just trying to avoid tearing into the motor until I KNOW what the issue is, as of now I’m still up in the air.

 

What do you mean you got scammed?

Does he suspect bent valves? Because I don't think a valve adjustment will fix your issue, but I could be wrong.🤷‍♂️

 

I trusted and sent money to a guy I shouldn’t have. He never sent the ECM.

yeah the other guy things I cracked a valve, but when I can get it to run it sounds perfect.
I pulled the pump relay and I got it to stay running on carb clean long enough to reinstall the fuel pump relay, when I did that it ran for a solid 30 seconds, longer than ever, but still wants to die and chokes when I give it throttle.