I have a 2002 Acura TL Type S. Recently the car stalled while driving on the freeway in San Diego. After I was towed home the car started right up. No codes. I drove it around for short trips (10 miles each way) for about 3 weeks. I then had an appointment 25 miles away. When I was on the exit ramp the car stalled out again, I waited for about 15 minutes and the car started and I continued to my appointment a few miles away. When I left the car started and when driving back the car once again stalled at freeway speeds. This time the car would not start and I was again towed home. I had a code reader in the car and there were no codes both times it stalled. Once home the car started again, after a few days I moved the car and afterwards it would not start, still no codes, no check engine light, and no immobilizer key indicator.

I thought that it was fuel pump/filter related as the car has 175,000 miles and I have never changed out the fuel tank fuel filter. As the car started after it was towed, I thought maybe something was blocking the fuel or the pump was acting up as it heated up (even though the tank was full). I replaced the following:

1) Fuel Pump

2) Fuel Filter

3) PGM-FI Main relay

The car almost started but wouldn’t. I checked and the fuel pump comes on for 2 seconds when the key moves to the on position. I checked the fuses including the ACG-S and all were good. I sprayed starting fluid into the intake and it didn’t start. I then disconnected one of the spark plug coils and checked for voltage at the coil connector, I used a digital DVM and it had 11.65v as the max that I saw as it was bouncing around. As it is a digital meter, I guess it misses the peaks as they would not be high long enough to capture and display the peaks. I then wanted to do a compression test but I was being lazy, so I just removed the plug in the #4 cylinder since I had the coil off, I forgot to pull the fuel pump fuse but when I turned the key the car started running on the 5 cylinders. I turned off the car, replaced the plug and it started again. I did not drive it except to repark the car.

I measured the Compression and Fuel Pressure, the compression was all around 210 (cold engine) and when I got the car started the pressure was 29 psi, I changed the Fuel Pressure Regulator and it read 31 psi. I looked for leaks but I cannot find any, can the new fuel pump have low pressure, as I think it should be 48-55 psi?

After reading more I thought maybe the Crankshaft Position Sensor was going and with all the milage on the belts I decided to replace the sensor and the belts. While I had it opened up, I replaced the following:

4) Crankshaft Position Sensor (NAPA)

5) All belts (Gates and AC Delco)

6) Water pump (Asian)

7) Belt Tensioner (Asian)

8) Motor Mount (Beck Arnley)

9) Camshaft Sensors (NAPA)

After putting it back together it labored for a few seconds then started and seemed very smooth, as I was filling the radiator and performing the Idle relearn procedure, I could hear some intake backfires. After reassembly I took it out on the road for a quick trip and once back, I waited about 15 minutes and tried to start the car again. No Joy, the car cranked but did not start. When the car cooled down it started. When hot again it wouldn’t start. So, after more reading and I replaced the following:

10) Air Intake Temperature Sensor (Standard Motor Products)

11) Temperature Sensor (Standard Motor Products)

12) Radiator Fan Switch (Standard Motor Products)

Since I took out the battery and the TB, I disconnected and replaced all the radiator lines going to TB and some vacuum lines. I also replace the ATF filter (why does everything that needs service placed next to a fender well?).

After reassembly (clean out all the electrical connectors) the car started but the CEL came on solid, the VSA light was on and for the first time a code was throw, saying the 1st Oxygen Sensor was bad (0 volts), along with a fuel system fault.

I replaced both Oxygen Sensors (Denso), rechecked all the connections and restarted the car. Started fine when cold but harder to start when warm. I then did the Idle relearn process again. I let it sit for 20 minutes and tried to start and if I hold the key in the start position for a long time it kind of starts, it idles real rough at 200 RPM and if I press the gas it does not change.

I am now at a loss as to what to do next. 8 months ago, I took apart the entire intake and EGR system and very thoroughly cleaned all, with new gaskets and new EGR valve and IAC valve. The only things I can think of is replace the knock sensor, readjust the valves, different ECM or blow it up. Please, if you have any insight on what I missed please let me know.

 

Correction - 120 psi for compression.

 

wow, you touched all those other parts and added more variables to what could be wrong.

have you had a chance to look at page 11-9 in the service manual? It lists a few things to check if the car stalls or doesn't start...

you mention that it has a hard time starting when hot; that's a typical symptom of the PGM-FI relay, which brand did you replace it with? many stress the importance of oem on this one; you might even try to put the old one back to see if that changes anything.

 

You are right I did add a lot of variables but most needed replaced anyway (belts, motor mount, small coolant lines, Fuel filter at least. The sensors doubtful they needed replaced but I am getting desperate. I still have the original Main relay I can try swapping it back in, I replaced it with one from NAPA/ECHLIN PART-ECH AR531, the fuel pump regulator is a Honda part, the Fuel pump was from NAPA it is a Delphi part -DFP FE0479. I am starting to think the problem many be more of an electrical ground when it gets hot such as maybe corrosion inside the battery cables or the original starter has worn brushes, or the armature is going and getting more resistive.

To to start the car even when cold I have to turn the ignition switch on, off, on, then start, It seems to have no fuel pressure and the pump almost seems as if it was bad even though it is new. Before I broke my fuel test gauge I measured the fuel pressure at the FPR using the Honda tool that provides a port by swapping out the pulse modulator and the pressure said 32 psi which I think is too low, I wonder if the fuel pump check valve is bad.
Thank you for the suggestion I will try the old relay, keep them coming.

 

If you already have the old relay out, re-flow the solder on it before plugging it back in. I had issues starting the car when it was still warm in the past, and doing so solved the issue for me. Someone here explained the process originally, so don't let me take the credit if that does the trick for you.

Also if your starting sequence is so particular, it's worth troubleshooting the ignition wire. Don't just replace it, that's a waste of money - the manual has a few diagrams of where and when you should be getting continuity that you can use to test it.

 

Hi. I opened up the old relay and there was definitely damage to the circuit board with a bad solder joint. One of the relays had heated up so much it had melted the solder joint and heat discolored the trace. The trace was still annealed to the board so I reflowed the solder joint. I am not sure how good the relay is though. When I have time I will take the relay off and see if I can get another to replace it. In any case it made no difference to starting the car. So I have some new information below.

I took the car for a short drive (a couple of miles) it ran fine going on level or a downhill grade but on an uphill grade (probably about 12-15% ) the car wouldn't accelerate, I pressed the gas pedal and no increase in RPM or of course speed , Once I was on a less steep grade it seemed to start working and the revs picked up and I had acceleration again. I took it home. The car was warmed up to operating temperature and when parked and turned off on a relatively level street it would restart. The restart is not quite normal it starts at after about 4 seconds of cranking and then idles at about 300 RPMs then after about 5 seconds it kicks up the idle to normal. I then parked the car in my driveway which has a 9% grade. After leaving it for about 15 minutes it was weird , it would start after a 8 second crank but would idle about 200 RPMs but it would never kick up the idle. Pressing the gas pedal did nothing.

After sitting overnight I started the car, turn key, wait till gauges move, crank for 4 -5 seconds, then it starts with a normal idle. After it was warmed up it repeated the same thing as yesterday. I waited till it was cooler and I moved the car and backed it into the driveway so the gas tank is above the engine. When hot the car started closer to normal. 4 seconds crank, lower idle , 300-400rpms, about 2 seconds then kicks up to normal idle. After a 20 minute heat soak the car restarted but it took a longer 7 second crank but then it did the low rpm thing before kicking the rpms up to normal.

I am hoping this makes sense to someone. It looks like a fuel pump issue but as I said it is a new pump,

 

Pulled the new pump and checked it for operation through the filter and it is working no matter what the position. I still am hoping there is an answer to what is going on somewhere here. I really don't understand why it hasn't posted more than the one code for the O2 sensor, which went away when it was replaced. Is there something so obvious that I am completely clueless.

 

Does it look like there's any sediment inside the gas tank?

 

Have you tried replacing your ignition switch?

 

Arkady,

I didn't see anything in the tank either on the bottom or floating.

thoiboi,
I have not replaced the ignition switch. I haven't even thought about that since the car will start. What would be the mechanism of failure of the switch that is not working correctly. I would like to understand why this is a potential cause of the problems. I also looked up the part are you suggesting what is called the "steering switch" PN (35130-S84-A01)?

Thank you for help!
Jon

 

Ok, the car is haunted. I ran it on the road and when trying to go up a hill it wouldn't do anything when I hit the gas, it just kept slowing down but RPMs were at 1500 and that got me 15MPH. Once the incline was less I was able to get it to move again and the RPMs moved up (on a side street so I couldn't really hit it). Parked it again and tried to restart and it wouldn't. Left it alone.
Today I ran through some electrical checks from multiple DTC troubleshooting instructions. Found nothing wrong. I started the car and let it idle while connected to a FOXWELL meter (NT650). Using the OBDII mode nothing was amiss. I noticed there was a scan option where i entered in my VIN and it had a Honda like test program. I let it run through these test. It took about 15 minutes, the car has now been idling for about 45 minutes. during the test it didn't come up with any codes but the SRS system (been out for a year). Once finished though I shut off the car and restarted it and now I have a check engine and VSA light. The DTC is P0505/$0D The idle air control system. I cleared the code and restarted the car and it came back. Also no the car went from a 775RPM idle to a 1300 RPM idle with a lot of intake backfire and surging. I am not sure what happened, if the scan test set something that is causing the problem or if it is the real problem all along.

Help please!

 

Hi Jon, I read the whole thread, sounds to me like you have some sticky or dirty injectors, you did get some oxygen codes, although i would have expected more codes, but the going uphill part and slowing down sounds like you'r just feeding air into the engine (not enough fuel). Getting on the gas pedal going uphill puts a big load on the engine at low rpm, pressing the pedal also opens the throttle body dropping the vacuum in the engine, the fuel pressure regulator should track that vacuum drop and drop the pressure to the injector rail as the injector pulse width widens, the extra fuel should still flow, but the lower rail pressure now can't break fuel through your sticky/dirty/clogged injectors or injector rail...?

Try a bunch of powerful injector cleaner in the tank, if you see any difference get those injectors and fuel rail out of there and have them properly cleaned. They also have injector rail cleaner kits, i think it's a can that you attach to your fuel rail, you run the engine on the can until it's empty.

Other attack angle might be vapor lock in the fuel line, especially after a long drive, you probably know all about that and never mentioned it so maybe you've ruled that out?

Lastly, i had a car that drove me nuts for years, did much of what you speak of, turned out to be a pinhole in the fuel line in the upper crease of the fuel line near the back of the car, it never leaked fuel because it was an older car, a vacuum draw system with the fuel pump at the front of the car. But what if the pinhole is in the stem of the fuel pickup tube inside the tank before the fuel pimp? Is the tank properly grounded (fuel pump ground return)? Fuel pickup tube/filter/screen clean?

Get a vacuum gauge on the fuel rail regulator, and a pressure gauge on the fuel rail, duct tape those gauges to your windshield and go for a long drive, I've solved some very weird issues this way.

Don't blow it up, never give up, Good Luck Jon...

 

elsmootho,

Thank you for the reply. Some really good thoughts there. I couldn't work on it today as my wife had items I had to address. I will be working on it tomorrow (recently laid off after 32 years).
Your first suggestion on the fuel injectors is plausible, although all the injectors are 1 year old. Before your post I was going to take off the intake manifold and the plenum and clean everything again and adjust the valves. Which I probably will still do but not right away. I have an injector cleaning kit and am waiting for a rebuild kit for the injectors.

I haven't been able to take it for a long drive and with Fuel Injection rather than a carburetor Vapor lock should be pretty rare but it can happen, the fuel pump is submerged in the gas tank and that provides the cooling for the fuel pump, I would need to find a way to wet down the fuel rails while the intake manifold is still on to find out. I considered vapor lock but having the problem reoccurring so consistently I didn't consider this to be the problem.

I think the pinhole suggestion maybe true either for the fuel or vacuum line. It appears something that gets worse going uphill and when hot. When you mentioned monitoring the vacuum and with the rest of your post you reminded me to check that the air assist valve is working properly as it should only provide extra air to the injectors when the engine is below 104 degrees F. If it is not closing when the engine is hot, and when I am going uphill with more load, then I think it would exhibit the symptoms I am seeing. This is the first test I am going to run tomorrow. Thank you for posting it helped me to put some things together.

Unfortunately, I don't know how to hook a gauge to the fuel rail as there are no ports in the rail in this model. I do have the Honda tool for measuring fuel pressure at the regulator, by taking off the pulse dampener and replacing it with a metal housing to allow a gauge to be attached but this is the only place I know how to measure. Is there something else I can do? I like the idea of doing a drive with a vacuum gauge and fuel pressure in the window. Thanks for the suggestion I wish I had thought to do that on some of my old cars years ago.

If the air assist isn't it I am going to to be checking for leaks in fuel lines, return lines, and vacuum lines. I'll post how it goes.
Thanks again,
Jon

 

Couldn't you get a good idea of an air/fuel problem by monitoring your short term (STFT) and long term fuel trims using an OBDII tool/app?

 

whitetiger5,
Probably could use it but I don't understand the reading. It is in a percentage and I don't know what it is a percentage of, is it some percentage of an ideal air/fuel mixture? is it the percentage of fuel in the air? What should the number be? I am also not sure if the meter updates are an average of recent readings or a single current reading. Can someone explain reading is trying to tell me?

I did test the air assist today and of course my hope of this being the culprit quickly showed I have my head in a dark place. I had 15-25mmHg of vacuum when the temperature was below 100 and I was reving the car, then as it got warmer the vacuum dropped to a study 7mmHg no matter what RPMs the engine was running through. So it looks like it is working as it is supposed to work.
I ran (or tried to) run a can of Seafoam top engine cleaner through the rubber boot connected to the air filter. While I went through the can I didn't notice it was also leaking out the bottom of the boot so I don't know how much actually went through the engine. After do this though I was able to start the car when hot. It was a hard start, 400rpm idle then it kicked up to normal. This is an improvement as the last try it would only rumble around 300 rpm and never go up. I did start after a 20 minute hot soak and I drove on the nearby hill. As I was going up the hill I had acceleration so I slowed the car and tried to go and it stayed running at about 1500rpm for a 7-10 seconds and then the RPMs picked up again. This is an improvement.

It looks like I have some cleaning to do and elsmootho suggestion is at least part of the total solution. I am taking apart the upper and lower intake and will pull the injectors for cleaning along with everything else. If I can rig up a smoke generator I will check for leakage through the valves. I did notice in the lower intake plenum that the #1 cylinder is more dirty than the rest of the cylinders, hopefully it is just a valve adjustment. Most of the internal air intake passages look pretty clean as I cleaned them about a year ago.
Once I get it clean hopefully I can make use of whitetiger15's suggestion to use the SHFT fuel trim to understand what is going on.

Another question. I noticed that Gen3 car;s have an item called an APP (Accelerator Pedal Position sensor) I do not see this on a Gen 2 but there is a Accelerator Sensor Assembly PN 39940-S30-003 , does anyone know if the function is the same? I can't find it in the manuals but it listed on the parts diagrams, I am not sure where this is even mounted.

Thanks again to all.

 

While you have the intake apart, peek at your EGR port again. I know you said you cleaned it out 8 months ago, but it's worth looking at again since you'll be in the area.

 

The 3rd gen cars has a throttle by wire design whereas we have a physical accelerator cable. there is a throttle position sensor; you could check that but the official information on that part is it's non-serviceable as it requires some additional skill/tools to set in place.

looking at page 11-9, I see:



Do those indeed describe your problems and is that what you have looked at?

 

In the ongoing saga, as I was disassembling the intake I looked through the lower intake plenums and saw this:



Sorry for the big picture I don't know how to resize for the forum.
So, the knock sensor is/was completely broken off and apparently bouncing around. I don't know how the PCM would interpret the information it would receive, I imagine it would go from an open to a short as the center conductor bounced around. I have no clue as to how this got broken as I have never taken the lower intake off before, from the condition of the broken edges and the weathering it looks like it has been this way for a long time. Maybe breaking off slowly but who knows.
Do you think this could be the cause of all the issues or just some???
I have a knock sensor and an new wire, I was planning to do this last year when I took apart the upper intake to clean intake and replace the fuel injectors but when I saw what else I would have to remove I didn't do it, At that time it looked like the sensor was connected but it obviously was already broken I just didn't see that then. Gaskets arrived today but the injector rebuild kit has not yet arrived. As I am looking for a potential vacuum or fuel leak I am trying to replace all gaskets and seals.

Arkady, when I have any of it it apart I clean everything. It makes working on the car that much easier, you can actually see the bolt instead of having to feel for them to make sure. I was cleaning out the ERG port and the ERG valve before I lost the light, gets too dark around 4:45Pm now. Although it was about 82 F in the sun today(71 in the shade), at least it isn't snowing or raining makes working on the car a lot easier.

whitetiger5,
I did go through the items in page 11-9 as you suggested a while back. I have a hard copy of the manuals and went through them first before I posted here. The fuel pressure I measured was 31 psi and this with two different pressure regulators. it is low from what the book says and I can't seem to find a fuel leak. This is one reason I started taking apart the intake to make sure there was no leaks or clogs in the system starting from the fuel injectors.

Thank you again. I think I am making progress but it will take me some time to clean every thing and reassemble. Still plan on adjusting valves once I put back the lower intake plenums (makes it easier to lean over to get to the back 3 cylinders).

 

I don't know enough to say that the broken knock sensor could cause those issues, but it sure wasn't helping the car! Either way, spotting that and replacing it is progress!

 

Well...your knock sensor does influence ignition timing. there's a good chance that was the culprit.

 

That would explain alot of what you're seeing Jon, I hope that was it, please advise..!
..s

 

I will definitely will keep posting the results. I appreciate the interest. Today I adjusted the valves in the rear cylinders. I made the mistake of starting to clean the valve cover, which I haven't done before since I didn't want to loosen the crud and have it falling into the cylinder head, this time I started cleaning without thinking and now I need to get it very clean before I put it back on. My gaskets for the intakes arrived today and the injector rebuild kit should be here tomorrow. I will keep you informed, hopefully I remember how to put it all back together.
Jon

 

I finished adjusting the valves. Some were a little loose but nothing too major. I did notice something when I removed the rear valve cover it had a lot of crud built up, carbon deposits and dried oil. The front valve cover was a lot cleaner just a little dried oil that left a gold patina. Cleaned up easy. The rear valve cover had to be scraped to get the crud off.

Is this common in Acura’s? Is this a problem that someone has seen, is there a fix?
The only thing I can think of is the oil passage to the rear head has a partial block (there was oil in head) but the front head oil passage is fine. I don’t know if that makes sense; but the oil and the front head looked cleaner than the oil and the rear head.

 

While cleaning the Fuel injectors I found one has a cracked pintle cap. I am not sure what effect this would have on the performance but my rebuild kit for the injectors does not include pintle caps and this one seems to be swaged in anyway. I will see if I can locate another injector.

 

On off problems are usually electrical. So I'm teach along years at internet. But you can not figure out without voltmeter. Electrical physic class in college is only one that worth in my life from elementary to college. I would google about electrical wiring that support ignition. It is actually funny go around and check with voltmeter. But voltage drop is way to go. Continuity is basically useless. Some resistance tests can help. Most likely some wire is fry try. There is big 3, google about it.

 

As it happen in driving and no power for ignition and computer at same time, as is not code to, I would first check cable from alternator to positive battery. Voltage drop test should be simple.

 

Here is me figuring out starting problem at my another car https://www.ford-trucks.com/forums/1...problem-2.html . Put voltmeter at positive of battery and positive of alternator. If Voltage drop is variable that mean you have problem there. It mean go from 0,5 to 3V or so. You need not create exact situation when car shut down. I recorded my voltmeter with my phone and saw voltage drop change as I was starting. Didn't at that moment happen no start situation, only I had 3V drop at split second. Again check voltage drop at big 3 first.

 

bbsitum,

First, thanks for taking the time to reply. There is a little misunderstanding, the car never lost electrical, gauges all worked but no RPM the car cranked but would not start (at that time). When the car is running I can measure 13.7 volts across the battery. I can remove the battery cable and the car continues to run, this tells me the alternator is is running correctly under a load. There can very well be electrical problem but until I get the car back together to test it there is nothing much else I can do. I am waiting for a fuel injector that should arrive tomorrow. After all is reassembled I can check for a voltage drop. I did replace the negative battery cable yesterday, since I watched the resistance bounce around as the engine heated up. A lot of electrical issues are due to poor grounds. I will review the ignition wiring. Thoiboi previously recommended I replace the ignition switch but didn't respond to my questions, so I will review the schematic.

I found another issue, after I finished cleaning all the intake items I started to check for vacuum leaks in the hoses. I found that the rear motor mount is not holding vacuum, the front motor mount does. After looking at the rear motor mount it looks like a lot of work to get it out, I decided to reroute the vacuum. I replaced the vacuum line splitter connector with a straight connector so only the front mount will have a vacuum applied. The rear is disconnected. Not sure how long this has been this way or what the affect will be by having only one mount working to actively dampen the idle vibration.

Thanks all who are contributing and following this thread.

 

Resistance test can not help much in cars set up. There is tons of videos about it at youtube. Especially continuity is useless completely. It is enough for one strand of wire to be good for yours voltmeter to beep. Yes simply some ground can be rusty right where it bolt to chassis. Again very easy to check with voltage drop. Tough today about poor guys that do not know do voltage drop test. Yesterday was snow and today snow emergency at ours parking lot at -8F with brutal wind chill. My both cars started without problem, around 10 others didn't. They had to push it out of parking in extreme cold or beg landlord to not get towed.

 

bbsitum,
Not sure where you live but even though I live in San Diego, I have lived in New Hampshire and worked in Maine and worked in Edmonton when it was -40F. Did have a car freeze up in the parking lot of a power plant in Minnesota size when I forgot to plug in the oil heater. I have sympathy for those in the cold weather. I love the snow when I know I don't have to shovel it.
As I am an Electrical Engineer I can tell you the reason you have a voltage drop is due to the resistance in the path of the circuit. Never use the continuity check as you are correct that it will beep but doesn't give you the true picture. One example is to measure the resistance from the battery cable to its connection. In the case of my car, I measured .7 ohms when the engine was cold but when hot the ground connection resistance bounced around between 10 ohms and zero. Now resistance will increase as the wire temperature rises but that is normal due to the coefficient of copper. in a car, the length of wire is small, and the gauge of the main ground wires are around 4 gauge, the change is insignificant. When I replaced the negative ground cable, cleaned the connections to the car body, and added two 4 gauge wires from the body to the engine. I now have 0.00 ohms of resistance at ambient temperature. Once I get it back together I can check for any resistance changes and any associated voltage drops due to that resistance. I will let you know what I see when it is hot. Looking at the battery ground cable that was the original in the car, it had a lot of separation in the wire bundle near the starter, it also had a corrosion. If the wires are green in color, especially on the strands on the inside of the bundle, the metal is being eaten away. It will become more resistive and cause voltage drops. As the main ground connection to the engine is the cable from the battery to the starter. If the inside wires in the bundle are green, separated, and brittle replace the cable.

Stay warm and healthy.

 

After getting everything back together I now have a screaming power steering pump. I had to move the power steering pump while pulling out the lower intakes, I disconnected and plugged the input line but that is all. No idea where this came from, It gets really bad moving the steering wheel.

FYI bbsitum,
Was able to work on the car and put it back together. I measured the voltage drop across the relays and fuses (from alternator to battery) and it was a steady .03V. The alternator is putting out 14.4 volts. There does not seem to be a problem in that circuit.

After getting everything back together I now have a screaming power steering pump. I had to move the power steering pump while pulling out the lower intakes, I disconnected and plugged the input line but that is all. No idea where this came from, It gets really bad moving the steering wheel.

When apart I cleaned everything, really well. I replaced the broken Knock Sensor, and cleaned all injectors, replacing one that had a cracked pintle. Adjusted the valves, new plugs, fixed vacuum leak to motor mounts, replaced vacuum lines, and engine compartment purge lines. I am still trying to make sure the Idle learn is completed (thought so but not idling correctly). The car starts and runs when cool but when I rev the car it starts surging after I get off the gas. It was also still hard to start when hot but did manage to start. Looks like all the fixes didn't solve my problem(s). When I it is idling when cool it does idle nicely.

Ideas?????

 

Is it the belt screeching, or the pump itself? If it's the pump you might just have air in the system - check for bubbles in the reservoir. If I recall correctly, you can squish the air out by spinning the wheel lock to lock.

How's your coolant by the way? Did you burp the fluid at all since all the work you've done? I know on our cars, the RPM and coolant is tied together, and bubbles in the system can lead to surging.

 

Hi Arkady,
It is from the pump itself. I have loosened and tightened the pump with no change in the noise. I replaced the O-ring in the high pressure hose connection. I had one that was close to the right size (14 x2.5mm) the correct size is 14.4x1.9mm figuring the extra thickness will compensate for the slightly smaller ID. Removed the reservoir, cleaned it out, checked the low pressure hoses for cracks, and put it back together. I know it has air in the system as when I filled it up it pushed fluid out the top and I can see air bubbles in the fluid. When the car is running the noise is minimal when the wheel is in one position but the noise increases as I move the wheel, I also see the load percentage and RPMs increase when I turn the wheel. I think this is telling me the power steering pressure switch is working. I have the input O-rings coming and will remove the pump and replace the high and low pressure O-rings with the correct size when they get here (why couldn't Honda use the standard size O-rings in their design). I can rebuild the pump but they do not sell all the pieces so I am not sure I want to spend the time or the money if I can't get all the parts.

I was burping the radiator but I am not yet sure I got all the air out yet so I was going to do it again. Still trying to figure out my original issue(s). Apparently, I have overestimated my understanding of cars
Thank you for providing help to get this solved!

Have a Happy and Healthy New Year,
Jon

 

If is not any code as you said before you should find someone with advanced scanner to go through it. About power steering noisy it happened to me to. You will have to ignore it till it clean itself alone from air. Can be any of sensors source of yours problem. I will test one by one. When I had similar problem at my infiniti 4 years go it was one of two crank or cam position sensors. Obviously can not replace things at blind.

 

bbsitum,
I have replaced every sensor in the engine compartment with the exception of a temperature sensor that is under the front camshaft (didn't know if was there when I replaced the TDC sensors) and the power steering pressure sensor. I will run the advanced Honda program that is in the Foxwell code reader and see if it has anything more. The last time it did show me the SRS problems I have had for some time.

The power steering pump sounds like a bad bearing when it is idling with the noise increasing with RPMs. I will keep checking for a leak but at this point it must be very small since I can't find a fluid leak.

Have a happy and healthy New Year.

Jon

 

I hope your New Year's celebration went well!

What I was getting at regarding the power steering, is that if it's just air in the system you should just lift the front end of the car up and rotate the wheel lock to lock until bubbles stop appearing in the reservoir. This should stop the sound you're hearing.
I'm just a hobbyist, but I haven't ever really heard of power steering pumps failing on these cars, so I doubt you have an issue there. If it's loud it's almost certainly just air in the system or old fluid. Please, please, PLEASE try just doing a flush to change the fluid out to some authentic Acura stuff, and then run it lock to lock until there aren't any more bubbles, before you go in and rebuild the pump or replace it with a brand new one or something like that. I feel like you keep diving in and throwing money at the car when it isn't necessary. Obviously if you've got the money and time to do this without it causing you any trouble, by all means don't let me interrupt your passion project.

As for burping the coolant, I've found a tool makes the process super easy. Generally I'll just lift the car up a bit and open the lid of the radiator while letting the car run for a while, but if I actually care to do it right and not make a mess I'll use one of those funnels.

 

Arkady,
I have been flushing the pump for a while by taking out the fluid in the reservoir and refilling with Honda PS fluid. It has had 6 quarts cycled through it and like you I already bought the same funnel you recommended and it is great for burping the system. As you suggested I already have burped the system. Excellent funnel for that purpose. Strange system that requires this is as the system will always get air into it from the cavitation of the water pump. I guess it should eventually be pushed out through the overfill reservoir.
I am not going to be rebuilding unless the pump stops working. The amount of power steering fluid moving through the reservoir is impressive. It really churns through there. When operating the volume of fluid in the reservoir goes low but after I stop the engine the volume increases. I have it maxed out when at rest. Not sure what else I can do but I will jack up the car and keep moving the wheel around, that at least will be easier on the pump and tires.
I have been using a Foxwell NT624 code reader and checking further into it apparently I have some Honda code reading capabilities by not using the OBDII scan setting but another scan setting where I need to enter the VIN and it performs Honda specific tests. I tried this once before but not extensively and I wasn't sure what I was seeing I am going to revisit this type of scan again as it seems to be more specific and supposedly more like a Honda tester (as suggested by bbsitum). Let you know the results. I really am getting tired of trying to find out what is the issue(s). Hope your New Years went well. Ours was fine, nothing special too many sick people around to do anything.

 

I used the scan tool in a Scan Mode that has Acura/Honda specific tests. I can go into details if anyone wants them but it does test the PGM-FI, the ABS/VCS, and the SRS system among others. I ran those tests and got errors I didn't have using the OBDII scan. First, the SRS error I have had for a year and was not able to clear with the OBDII portion of the software was clearable within the Acura program. Second, as I ran through the test I saw the following errors:
P0505: Idle Air Control System
P0325: Knock Sensor 1: No Signal
83-1: which says it is a ECM/PCM relation failure.

This is after I replaced the Knock sensor and the sensor cable. After seeing this I thought I would look at the IAC valve. I followed the procedure in the manual (pg.11-148). After I removed the TCS assembly, I started the car, This set the idle really surging from 800 to 3000 RPM. I didn't know if this invalidates the test but covering the lower port in the throttle body did lower the RPMs and smoothed out the idle. Once I removed my fingers from the port it went back into the huge surging idle. I reassembled the TCS and all but the huge surging just continues. I cleared the errors it caused with no difference to the idle. I can't even hold an idle at 3500 RPM it just kicks it down and starts all over. I can see on the code reader the fuel system going from open to closed, The long term fuel trim and the short term trim are about equal. I think I have been looking at this so long the long term fuel trim is all based on the time I have been trying to troubleshoot the problems. I have sprayed carb cleaner, and water all over the engine and can't find a vacuum leak yet from the surging I would think there was one.

I am wondering if the PCM is the item that is broken.

Help Please!
Jon

 

This is driving me crazy. I ran a smoke test using a cigar and a hand transfer pump through the brake vacuum port on the rear intake manifold, No smoke was seen coming out except at the air filter and the air intake to the resonator. Reconnected the brake vacuum line and ran the engine for a while, Still revs between 750 and 3000 rpm. Once it was warm I ran the smoke test again and no change. I noticed the CLV was up to 66% when the revs start to increase then at ~3000rpm the CLV drops to 30% and then the revs kick down then the whole cycle repeats. I then removed the power steering pump and ran the engine and it idled at 1500 rpm for a little bit then started the same thing the max CLV was now around 60% but the whiny PS pump is not the issue.
During this running it posted a P0505 error and a MAP sensor error but no Knock sensor or ECM/PCM relation error.

Anyone????

 

I've had weird surging issues in the past caused by a bad IACV valve - that's related to the P0505 error you're seeing. Have you taken the IACV valve apart and blasted it with carb cleaner? The little spinny part gets gummed up over time and make just need a cleaning.
A non-gummed but dying one might also be causing what you're seeing?