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iTrader: (1)

After reading alot on ATF's I decided to go with the Redline D4. My car is an 04 Base with 167k and after doing the last 3x3 the tranny is shifting hard and holding gears too long. IDK if it has to do with the D4 or the fact that I just did a full exhaust HFPC's, Jpipe, and Catback.
My question is, does anyone know if it's worth having these transmissions rebuilt, can they be rebuilt, or should I look for a used one?

Thanks

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iTrader: (1)

I just realized that I put 5MT, (dumb ass). Sorry, I have a 5AT (auto) so I must have been wishing I had a 6speed.

j-rogsuperstar

Very curious to hear what's said for this one....I have virtually the same car, mileage and all. My tranny isn't holding too long, but it's shifting a little hard in my opinion.

csmeance

fixed it.

I can spot 2 potential issues:

1. With that high mileage and running the old fluid for so long, it's very possible that some debris (after the flush) is clogging a sensor or the pressure switches and causing an issue. A pressure switch change might fix it.

2. The 3x3 is your problem. The 3x3 changes out ALL of the fluid in the transmission. I've said this before, with high miles on a car you should NEVER do the 3x3 in a short period of time. The best thing to do is change it out once (1x3) and wait at LEAST a week or 100+ miles of driving to see how the transmission reacts. If the old fluid was in use for too long, then what happens is that the clutches inside start wearing down and putting microscopic pieces of clutch material in the fluid. As it keeps on happening the clutches wear more and more and the only thing keeping it running is the clutch material in the fluid. When you take out that fluid then the old worn clutches cannot mate with one another and thus the trans starts slipping or worse.

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iTrader: (1)

Thanks for the reply csmeance, hard to believe 90 views and one response.
Anyway, I am aware of the potential for problems when changing ATF with high mileage, and I actually did put a couple hundred miles between changes. So far the tranny is not slipping, just holding gears and hard shifts, (intermitent). It would be good if it is just some dirt caught in a valve body, but who knows. Any thoughts on having these trans. rebuilt?
Thanks

paperboy42190

iTrader: (7)

sucks to hear you are having tranny issues. im getting my tranny rebuild as i type this. the mechanic was like, yea honda automatic transmissions are very weak.

I hate cars

The sad thing is, they're not that weak, not when it comes to clutch holding power. It was when I saw one torn down on the bench that I started searching for the real cause of the failures. The 3rd gear clutch pack is no worse than any other trans, it's the electronics and OEM fluid that make them fail. The transmission itself is not bad mechanically.

Csmeance nailed it. It's probably a stuck valve or plugged switch/sensor/orifice. If you can find a shop that does actual diagnostics instead of replacing the whole trans at the first sign of trouble, you might be able to save it. Holding the gears and shifting hard won't wear it out, it's just uncomfortable for you. Bring line pressure way up to see if you can free it. This means going full throttle at least through 3rd gear a few times.

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iTrader: (1)

There is a local shop that I will try when I'm back in my town. I have been WOT through 1,2,and 3'rd gear a few times and no difference. I don't think it helps to have a heavy foot with the mileage on my car, but it's hard to resist with the way it sounds now.
Thanks for the reply

Elegant TYPE S

iTrader: (2)

Honda can't make a F'n transmission... end of discussion.

I hate cars

They really aren't bad at all. It's just the electronics that cause them to fail. I've seen them torn apart. There's plenty of clutch holding area for all gears, the trans isn't particularly undersized for the power and weight of the car. Take a look at Bert's 400whp/400wtq 100,000 mile plus original transmission. He replaced the switches and runs a Type-F fluid and it's worked flawlessly for 120,000 miles now with over 400hp at the wheels. If there were any inherent mechanical issues they would've showed up. All you have to do is replace the switches every couple years and use the Type F fluid and you will not have a failure. I have to wonder if these switches are not designed to cause the transmission failure at certain intervals. Think about it, if you wanted the trans to fail in a certain time period, electronics would be the way to do it since you have more control over when they fail. If I know what the problem is, Honda has to know but they do nothing about it and the techs are still clueless to the switch fix even though the rest of the trans rebuilding world knows about it.

FWIW, I did mine about 2 years ago and the shifts are just starting to get a little sloppy again. Getting ready to do the switches for the second time.

Elegant TYPE S

iTrader: (2)

Well... I will be heeding your advice when I get my new transmission replaced in a few weeks since mine is fucked too. And this time I will change the switches much earlier and more frequent and hope that it lasts longer.

I think I have to change my tie rods as well... take a look at the new video I posted in my other thread and lmk your thoughts..

P1zzaman

iTrader: (1)

https://acurazine.com/forums/3g-tl-2004-2008-93/trans-fluid-question-827890/

Read post number 3.

Why did you not heed my advice?

EDIT: Nevermind you did. You sure it was a few hundred miles between each flush? You sure drive a lot.

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iTrader: (1)

I have to say, I'm not too familiar with Auto's. The last tranny I rebuilt was a Muncie M21 that needed syncros(a few years back). I know that there is no pan to drop on the TL tranny so I imagine doing switches is a pretty big project?



Yeah, I do about 125-140 a day, damn sales job. But at the very least I had 180-225 between changes.
I think the fact that I drive the car pretty hard is adding to the problem.

P1zzaman

iTrader: (1)

Like fast and furious style? That can't be good for an old transmission like yours.

I hate cars

Switches are external and take about 20minutes, no jack needed. You just turn the tires to the right I think and get in there through the fender well. There are several good writeups.

swoosh

iTrader: (5)

dude....dude....dude....

2 things....
1> switches....cant go wrong with them
2> interval between drain and refills....u cant just dump brand new fluid into a 167K old tranny and expect it to be ok....I had an interval of 1000 miles between drain and refills....i started off at:
147K with engine oil and transmission drain and refill...
148K with transmission drain and refill
149K with transmission drain and refill
150K with engine oil and transmission drain and refill...

so i switched my tranny and engine oil over 3K miles....so if you see anything going wrong you can switch back.....

now I would suggest doing the switches before you do anything else....see how they work and try switching to Stock/Type F slowly....

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iTrader: (1)

I wouldn't say that hard, but being on the highway alot gives me the chance to pass ALOT, even on back roads too. But either way the gas pedal is to the floor any chance I get being that I'm always late to my next appointment, lol.

Thanks, sounds like an easy job especially with a lift, which I usually have access to. I will do a search to see what side and how many switches there are.

I will do the switches, but I'd hate to go back to the Z1 stock ATF, so I'll wait to see how it acts after switches. And as far as intervals between changes, the consensus was a couple hundred miles

D's Up

Don't go back to the stock Z1 ATF. It's garbage. Change your 3rd/4th gear pressure switches asap. See how it feels afterwards. If it was me, I'd replace the switches and do a single drain and fill of Redline Type-F ATF.

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iTrader: (1)

I assume I have to get switches from the dealer, are they expensive? And I just did a 3x3 with D4. Should I just add 3 quarts of Type-F after draining 3 of the D4 what good is it to mix the two fluids?
Tnx

SpiderX1016

Have you replaced your motor mounts? Specifically the Front and Side.

BLACKURA_NY

iTrader: (6)

Honda Auto transmissions were garbage... until the 2G CL/TL & 6G Accord era...

after that, Honda put a lot of R&D into their transmissions, and the longevity behind them. the first few 3Gs (1st half of production year 2004), also had a lot of problems with them.

the 2007+/4G/MDX/RL transmission is practically bullet proof. engineered ingeniously.

don't forget, honda caught A LOT of bad press about this, spend millions in class action suits, and still have to honor replacing transmissions on some of the 2G CL/TL line up.

I happen to have an 03 CL-S.. and even though it had the recall and cooling jets installed when it was young (about 14k) I can still feel when i drive it, that its on borrowed time (cas has 82k now)

The new 07-11 5AT TLs, the transmissions feel awkward. a little harsh, stammers on down shifts and isnt very smooth... because its designed that way. My 2G CL transmission drives worlds smoother at low speeds/stop and go

my

Bills07TLS

I am really interested to see if the switches fix yours. I am going to do the 3 switches (74,000 07 TLS) and 3x3 on ours next week. It always makes me nervous reading others mishaps after the change.

I hate cars

Only time will tell how the new generation will do. People said all problems were fixed with the new '04 model and that was not true. As the miles started racking up, more and more failures have popped up. Same with the '05 and '06. Lots of failures. Before we discovered the cause of the failure and the fixes, there were new transmission shudder threads daily on here. Now the word is out and people know better. At the rate we were going before word about the switches and fluid got out, there's no doubt there were going to be a ton of 5at failures in the '04-'06.

'04 and earlier had lubrication problems along with pressure switch problems. Halfway through '04 the lube problems were cured but the pressure switch problem has yet to be cured. I read the whole NHTSA report on the failures and it was comical how they were blaming everything but the real cause for the 3rd gear clutch failures. Incorrect surface finish on the 3rd steels, bad pistons, etc. WTF is wrong with these people that they do a 1,000 page report and incorrectly diagnosed the problem.

That "borrowed time" you think the '03 is on is pressure switches. Replace them and use a DexIII or Type F fluid and I guarantee it will shift better than the day you bought it. The problem is, you have to do the switches before they cause a complete failure so time is of the essence. Just humor me and give it a try. I'll seriously paypal you $20 if it doesn't make it feel like a new trans.

swoosh

iTrader: (5)

switches shouldnt be too bad....$80 for both 3rd and 4th...now if you have a 07+ then those have two 3rd and one 4th so it would be like 120ish...

and i would do a 3x3 slowly...assuming something happened in your tranny case and a flush would take those shavings out....

what do engine mounts have to do with this ? can you please elaborate your point of view ?...

true and hence I would say when doing a 3x3 into a different fluid take your sweet time....i would recommend an interval of 1K mile between drain and refill if switching to a different fluid....and you have almost half the miles of the OP...

j-rogsuperstar

I have about the same mileage and i'm having some kicks....would a drain and refill (considering Redline) and fixing those pressure switches help? Not 100% sure if the previous owner ever serviced the tranny (I'm sure i can find out) and I've heard some horror stories about changing it if it's never been done...

P1zzaman

iTrader: (1)

try the switches first, then slowly introduce the redline

swoosh

iTrader: (5)

^^^ I agree with him....

First switch the pressure switches and then bring the redline in SLOWLY....do a drain and refill every 1000miles until you have done it 3 or 4 times. (I did 4 since the case came with 12 quarts, those extra 3 quarts are better off sitting in the tranny then in the garage) LOL

TLove It!

iTrader: (1)

So is the (new)consensus to go with the Type-F Redline rather than the D4 Redline? If so, kinda sucks that I just spent all that money on 10 quarts of D4, but oh well whatever it takes to save my Tranny.

Bills07TLS

Don't worry I have 10q of the D4 on the way as well, its got to be better than factory or doing nothing.

I hate cars

The majority have been going with Type F for a couple years. I've been on it for at least that long. Got a good 30,000 miles on it now. I think Inaccurate and Bert have been on it even longer. Both are good fluids but Type F should result in longer life. The catch is new pressure switches are more important with the Type F. With new switches and Type F you'll have amazing shift quality and very quick shifts. With Type F and old switches it can make harsh shifts even harsher.

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iTrader: (1)

So if you were in my situation, would you Do a full 3x3 with Type-F and THEN replace all switches OR just replace switches and keep D4 in it?

usmarinedelta

iTrader: (1)

I'd replace the switches before you do anything else.

I hate cars

Since D4 is a good fluid, I would do switches first. These have to be done regardless of what fluid is in there. In some cases, doing the Type F fluid with old switches can cause harsh shifts so that's another reason to do the switches now. Later, you can try a 1x3 of the Type F to see how you like it. Doing both will ensure a VERY long trans life.

TLove It!

iTrader: (1)

Thanks to everyone for the advice and information. Switches are ordered.