Ok, so I have done some searching here and I have found that everyone has problems with their automatic trans, but I cannot seem to find anyone person who has had a problem with their clutch.

At about 5k miles I noticed that my 05 TL seemed a bit slower and more hesitant to accelerate. I just chalked it up to the changing weather. After a few weeks it got worse, so I asked a more mechanically inclined friend of mine to take it for a ride and see if he felt the clutch was slipping. He said it felt ok to him and that maybe I had just broken it in (he had never driven the car before, so he didn't have anything to compare to). Later that night, I was cruising along at 60ish and went to pass a car. When I stepped on it, I didn't get any response except the tach went up. I threw it in N and then threw it into 5th to attempt passing again. Same thing. I gave it more gas and I noticed very slow acceleration, but the car was at 6000 rpms at 60 mph in 5th gear. I immediately pulled over and came to a complete stop. I sat for a few minutes and took off slowly again. I noticed that the car was suuuuper slow. I couldn't get above 45 mph, but it was late on a Friday night and I was headed to meet some friends I hadn't seen in a long time, so I stayed at 45 mph. Within about 2 miles, the car started to decel and nothing I did would keep the car going.

So, I called TLC, they came and got the car and towed it to the nearest dealer and I stopped by in the morning to take care of things. Of course I got the questions like "do you double clutch", "do you this, do you that". I mean yeah, I'm 25 and fit the stereotypical race boy look, short messy hair, yada yada, but by no means do I not know how to drive a stick (this is my 4th plus 2 motorcycles). Next they can't tell me if it will be warranty or not until they disassemble which would be a few days. Once they disassembled, they originally weren't going to cover it. I got a call the next day stating "we found a defect and we sincerely apologize on behalf of acura, we will be replacing your clutch and throw out bearing under warranty". I was thrilled, but by the same token annoyed bc a clutch shouldn't go in 5k miles no matter what you do to it.

So here I am a few months later (I've only had the car since July) and I notice that I am having the 3rd gear shift problem that they add a heavier trans oil to resolve. So I took it in for both. The shift problem was resolved. About a week and a half later I notice the problem that I had the first time the clutch started failing. Before I even had a chance to schedule an appointment, the clutch completely failed on me again at 15k miles.

I took the car into Acura last Tuesday. They finally got the trans out and evaluated today. There happened to be a regional service rep there and both he and the service manager concluded there was no defect and that this was all driver caused. They agreed to pay for the parts, but not the labor. This puts me out $700 that I don't really want to spend on this. The clutch was worn to nothing, there were burn marks and it was evident that it was all "heated up".

Now, I do drive fast, I'll admit that. But I DO NOT do burnouts, dump the clutch, chirp gears or anything like that. I definately know how to drive a stick and it is not user error.

Can someone offer me some input here? PLEASE!!!

 

I have almost 40K on my 04...And honestly...I beat the shit out of it...I drive it like I stole it. My only issues is the clutch master cylinder has a rough feel to it after warm up...I bought a new master cylinder and plan on installing it myself. Otherwise...No real issues

 

This is a good reason not to buy a stick unless you really know what you are getting into - both from a standpoint of how to drive it (and I'm not picking on the original poster - I believe he knows how to drive a stick) but also in terms of how manufacturers treat defects with the normal wear portions of the transmission.

It's easy to unintentionally abuse a throwout bearing and a clutch, so you can't really blame the dealers for skepticism when they see a single failure. To prove a defect would almost require the owner to prove (or the manufacturer to admit) epidemic failure of the part. This happened with the early Taurus SHO's for instance - a really sh*tty throwout bearing design resulted in Ford replacing everyone's clutch for free once - including an "improved" throwout bearing that didn't fix the problem. It took two years of clutches failing like clockwork within 20,000 miles for that to happen though. My experience with Acura says they are no more responsive than Ford (much to my disappointment) on judgment matters like this.

I prefer the reliability (!) and more certain warranty of the automatic to the uncertainty of a stick these days. If you buy a stick you should be prepared to pay for clutches - and without a track record to research you really won't know what kind of clutch life to expect.

Mike

 

wow, this is the first Ive heard of this....

Id take a 6MT over auto any day, been driving sticks my whole life...

 

Problem is that they admitted a defect and fixed it the first time. There are however no notes at the dealer and I don't have the defect admitted to in writing. All I have is the fact that it was replaced and I didn't pay a dime!

 

I guess this is something I will have to keep an eye on. I got 110,000 miles out of my Maxima and I hope to get the same thing out of this TL. 15000 miles and two clutches is downright horrible. What are you going to do? At this rate you will be dropping some serious dough on clutch replacements in the next few years.

 

There are a lot of variables that haven't been discussed about your driving style. Do you rest your foot on the clutch pedal? Do you downshift a lot? Do you hold the car at a stop light or on a slight incline with the clutch partially engaged? There are way too many things not being mentioned to determine wether or not this a defect or user fault. I have put 52,000 miles on the clutch of my NSX and it feels as good as the day I bought the car with 4,000 miles on the odo.

If the dealer is only going to charge you labor for another clutch, you are getting a great deal. I'd jump all over that offer before they decide to charge you for the parts+labor.

 

At this point, I don't think you have a lot of options. If the representative said that they wouldn't cover it (labor), then that's pretty much the end of the debate.

You could keep arguing, and see if they would budge, but that's an iffy.

Should you decide to just pay for the labor and let them fix it, I would recommend the following. Tell them that you will pay for the labor, but emphasize the fact that the clutch went through no abuse whatsoever on your part. Back this up using the first failure as an example, and request them to find out what's causing the clutches to die so quickly. And ask them what they would do for you, if this clutch, too, dies again soon.

If you're at the least an okay driver, then clutches still shouldn't die at an interval of 5k and 10k miles. That is absurd, especially for an OEM clutch.

 

No, I don't rest my foot on the clutch pedal.
Yes, I do downshift a lot. I drive 45 miles to work each day, each way in stop and go traffic, but I pass a bunch of other TLs doing the same thing
I live in NJ and drive to the foothills of the mountains, pretty much a flat run all around.

I know I am getting a great deal, but this is ridiculous, it's not my fault! I beat the piss out of my TSX and we won't even talk about what I did to my civic, but not the TL, there is something to be said for the respect you give to a 36K vehicle

 

Two questions still not answered (I'm not picking on your whatsoever):

1. Do you hold your car on hills with the clutch?
2. HOW do you downshift.. as in a description of how YOU do this?

Barring a poor design or faulty installation, the most significant component in the life of a clutch is the operator. A clutch should outlast an automatic transmission before the auto's rebuild.. in other words, unless you're racing, towing, or live in a city such as San Francisco, you should expect well over 100,000 miles from a clutch.

 

Something is wrong with your car. Even if you *did* do burnouts, dump the clutch, chirp the gears, or downshift incorrectly, you would not wear out two clutches in 10K miles. I did all of these things to my 92 accord, and had to change out my clutch at 230K.

Two clutches in 10K miles is the equivalent of getting 400 yards per gallon of gas. You would suspect a problem there, no?

If your clutch is burned in 5K miles, and these are not all dragstrip miles, or the result of holding the car on a hill for two hours, there can only be one cause: the clutch is not fully locking up during driving. Even lightly resting your foot on the clutch pedal should not cause this much slipping. You would have to be pressing the pedal some distance toward the release point.

I would suspect some clearance problem with the throwout bearing or the arm that actuates it. Something in your setup is not allowing complete release of the throwout bearing pressure. Either that or your pressure spring is cracked or defective in some way. Have them resurface the flywheel and replace the clutch assembly, pressure plate, throwout bearing and the actuator arm. Maybe even the slave cylinder too.

DO NOT let the dealership tell you that this is driver abuse, unless you have been living at the dragstrip or towing a motor home around.

 

Should have got the 5at

 

I agree 100% My last car was used as a daily driver, tracked alot and when i got rid of it for the TL it had almost 100k on its clutch. It was driven in what would be considered "severe" driving (lots of clutch engagement and disengagement. lots of riding it (due to my job)
Your clutch should last alot longer than 5k apop unless your starting out in 5th gear every time you start.

 

Ok so check this out. I buy an 05 TL with a six speed. It was absolutely perfect. Clutch took time to getting used to as it was much higher than all of my other cars, but no big deal. I come from a racing background, have bought and sold LOTS of cars and I do know how to drive a stick, so don't go there. When I notice someone resting their foot on the clutch I even nag them about it. I'm totally AR, especially with my $36k TL, I baby the damn thing. So recently I've noticed my clutch slipping a hell of a lot more than it did when I got it. I mean, if you were to get in it and didn't have a TL you wouldn't think anything of it. But it's changed. In addition, I have a 3rd gear issue as well like the original poster did. When I go to put it in third gear, clutch fully depressed, one in every 10 shifts, more or less, doesn't go in all the way unless I apply more force. It's kind of annoying. I only have 10k miles on it!! Anyone else have this syncro problem? I've owned many mt's and none have changed this quick. Otherwise I totally love the car.

 

I have the 3rd gear problem, it will not fully engage and I back it out a little and put it back in. When at the dealer for some other stuff I mentioned it and that AcuraZine members said I needed a transmission drain and fill. A tech and service manager drove it, said it was fine and I should spend lest time on the Internet

So I will be draining and refilling on my own.

 

I'd be pissed if he told me to spend less time on the internet.
I mentioned a couple other small problems to the service rep that were "obvious problems" on the TL, like the rear window rattle and third brake light carpet sag, and since I acted like I knew what I was talking about, as a direct result of this board, there were no questions asked. I am going back to the dealer on friday (i'm out of town on business) and will let y'all know what happens with the tranny.
Sorry you had such a jerk of a rep!

 

If you drain you manual trans fluid, replace it with GM Synchromesh Transmission Fluid - Friction Modified, Part #12377916. This is the one you want to use.. much better than Honda's manual fluid.

BTW. My '04 TL has over 23,000 miles on it and the clutch is still perfect. No sign of any manner of slippage or unusual operation at all.

 

I would've told them to spend less time on being idiots and just do their fucking job, which is to fix problems. If I wanted a consultant on how to spend my time, I would've hired one.

 

There must be a defect. 2 clutches in 15k miles is just ridiculous. As somone already stated, the clutch must be slipping. Take the old parts to another mechanic for a second opinion.

 

I would guess you have a seal leaking oil onto the clutch, or a problem with the hydrolic clutch system not allowing the clutch out all the way.

I would make a stink about it till they find the problem.

Brett

 

affirmative.

easier and much cheaper for me to replace a clutch myself than it is to replace or repair an auto trans (although i can). internal manual trans parts rarely fail w/ proper operation and regular lubrication. w/ careful driving i've had a clutch in a 4wd truck go to over 250k (when i replaced it just cause i didn't want it to reach it's wear point during snow season). that vehicle also towed a trailer.

i find it a very rare for an auto trans to go past 125k-150k miles w/out showing it's age and needing repair/replacement, and that becomes very expensive.

 

Acura will not give you the old parts if they assist in the replacement cost.

 

I dont know if this is true or not, but I have heard from some prelude owners that the GM Syncromesh will eat away seals causing leaks in the tranny after a significant amount of time. I will try to do some more research on it, but just wondering if anyone else has heard of the same problem.

 

Well now, this would be very bad and any info you can produce regarding this would be MOST helpful and MOST appreciated.

Please, if you do turn anything up, post it in UPPERCASE CHARACTERS so it really grabs attention. You would be doing all of us who've used this product a great service.

Thanks!

 

I wholeheartedly agree with you. I have reiterated many times that a manual transmission should outlast an automatic, and the clutch should go longer than an automatic before its first rebuild. There is nothing magical or mystical about a clutch or a manual transmission. They've been around much longer than automatics.

Granted, the manuals of today (as in our TLs) are no where as strong as the manuals used in American supercars of the 60's (clutches are not as strong either), but they're still darned good and should give many 10's of thousands of miles of trouble-free operation. Something just ain' right here.

You got over 250,000 miles on your truck (what brand?).. one poster on this website got over 300,000 miles on one of his clutches. I was the original owner of a 1966 396/360 Chevelle SS and when I sold it, the car had 83,000 miles on the original clutch AND the original brake linings. The brakes, by the way were sintered metallic linings and would commonly go well beyond 100,000 miles. Anyway, that Chevell would still burn rubber in all four gears when I sold it. I used to race that car quite frequently for a period of about a year and a half. The clutch was strong, sure, with no slip and no chatter. But then again, it was an American supercar, so you would expect that to be the case.

Let us know what turns up with your problem.

 

ok, so i finally got acura to agree to pay for the whole thing. it turns out the first time, only the clutch pad, clutch plate, and throwout bearing were replaced. after further inspection it appeared as though the flywheel was in much worse shape than the clutch plate and this was deemed to be the cause of the premature wear.

i still think it's bs. i think that something is defective with this car. there should be no reason that it eats clutches like this no matter how hard i drive it. the dealer has checked all the hydraulics and what not and has not found a fault.

so i now have the car back and it already felt like it was slipping in the first 20 miles. i have driven the car about 150 miles on the new clutch and something isn't right. i have another appointment on monday to get it checked out.

...anyone know how the lemon law works?

 

No, thats nonsense, oil is oil, lube is lube, they are not so much different as to effect any seals.
I think the S2000 people have been running the GM stuff for years and years...

Brett

 

What's a clutch pad??

The major component of a clutch are: the clutch disk, the pressure plate, and the flywheel. I left out the release bearing simply because it has nothing directly to do with the clamping pressure of the other three components and the only one of those that reallys does affect this DIRECTLY is the pressure plate. That said, the release bearing DOES have a bearing (pardon the pun) on clutch operation.

Anyway, I fully agree with your angst with all of this. What I find hard to imagine is the idea that the Acura technicians cannot seem to come up with a reason or cause for this problem. If the new parts were quality pieces and properly installed, then the only other thing that would cause your clutch to begin to slip 20 miles after having received these repairs is something affecting the clamping pressure... as in a partially engaged clutch. It just sounds like you're not getting full engagement which could most definitely manifest itself in slippage.

 

sorry. i'm not a mechanic and i was just using the terms that they used when describing it to me.

the clutch pad = clutch disk (that was the part in the middle of the fly wheel and the pressure plate)

the clutch doesn't seem to be slipping now, but i have a hard time getting into gear (all of them)...it is very similar to the problem i had with shifting into 3rd. they fixed that with the GM synchromesh oil. i'm going to the dealer in 2 hours, so i will let everyone know the outcome.

if they don't take care of this, i am going to sell the car and switch manufacturers just based on the sheer principle of this or get a lemon law lawyer.

 

Your car is one of the only cars in the world that adjusts to how you are driving. I doubt that the clutch is the real issue here. The car is very much computer controled. If you drive the car like a little old lady, the car will make it drive like a little old lady much easier than if you drive like a mad man. Basically you are probably experiencing the car adjusting the fuel and air flow, and possibly even the speed that the pedal releases the hydrolic fluid controling your clutch.

Bottom Line... Feed your car some speed now and agin, and the car will adjust to expect this behavior.

 

no little old lady here! lol

 

ok so here is the scoop now. i took the car in yesterday and the tech found the pedal to be "soft" the dealership has ordered a new slave and master cylinder and indicated that they are the only parts of the hydraulic system.

this is really starting to annoy me. i've had the car since july and im close to 25 days off the road for damn service on the mofo....hopefully, this fixes the problem, but i think i am getting rid of this car!

 

You got a lemon. If your state has a lemon law, get your money back.

 

Cars that adjust to their drivers' characteristics and style have been around for nearly 20 years. My 1988 Mustang LX 302CID did this (it had the EEC-IV ECU Speed Density system - Mass Air came the following year).

The TL most definitely will adjust to its driver's habits then quickly readjust when the need arises. However, the clutch and all of its components are not at all affected by the ECU. Clutch slippage is very easy to feel and not at all like any other strange or weird anomoly in the drive train.

I'd go with improper engagement (as in incomplete or insufficient) in this poster's case.

 

That is true for the auto trans cars, the manual trans has no ecu inputs to it, nor does the clutch.
The trans is just gears shoved around by shifter forks, the clutch is hydrolic, it does have an orfice that is supposed to slow the clutch engagement a bit, but it has no ecu input that I know of.
There is a switch on the clutch to work the starter interlock.

On the auto trans cars, the trans is supposed to learn the drivers habits, lots of fast heavy throttle will have the trans hold gears longer and downsift earlier, gentle slow throttle operation will upshift early, and tend not to downshift unless you give it a lot more throttle.
Many cars have been doing this for some time, ever since electronic transmission control came out.

It seems to be a VERY minor change, its not noticable on most cars I have driven.
Only if you reset the trans ecu will you notice anything (on most cars).


Brett