On our 2004 TL the engine cuts out when driving, but only when cold, say 23F. The initial start up is fine, warm up about 2 minutes, drive anywhere from 10 feet to 400 yards and then engine cuts out while driving. Coast to a stop, all lights on, attempt restart. After about 3 or 4 times cranking...engine restarts. Drive a few more feet cuts out. Try a few times and restart. Repeat once more and then drive like nothing was wrong. Then it is ok for a week and then it will happen again. We have taken it to Honda and Acura and paid for diagnostics and they found nothing. No errors ..."call us if it happens again". We replaced the ignition switch with oem. Still having the same problem. Battery is new. Starter turns engine no problem. This is all going on in at midnight in a bad part of town trying to leave work. Any help or direction would be appreciated.

 

Is there a high idle when the car is cold?
My guess is that the ecu isn't receiving correct information from a defective air or coolant temp sensor.

 

it appears to have an rpm of about 1200 on cold start.

 

I agree.

If acura didn't have their head up their ass they would have kept the car overnight and run it on the scanner while recording live data. It would be a clear cut case at that point. If nothi g showed up in live data it would be a non ecu electrical issue. I hope you did not pay them for such a halfass job. I won't get started on how the techs these days are nothing but code readers and they can't troubleshoot to save their lives.

I would say IAT or CTS sensors. I don't think the ECU puts a whole lot of weight on IAT though.

It could be a part of the emissions too especially since it does it after a couple minutes.

As I said this would be a very simple diagnosis with a scanner or a non lazy tech.

 

they wanted $220 for the diagnosis and test ride. "can't find anything wrong... call us if it happens again"... we settled at around $100. I called another dealership and they said they had something similar last week and ended up replacing the fuel relay and fuel pump. Said we might want to try that.

I totally agree that this could be diagnosed easily... bugs me to start randomly replacing components. looking into the iat and cts sensors...

 

update: replaced IAT, CTS, Fuel Pump Relay, and MAP sensor. And it still stalls when it is cold, around 20F, while driving or in gear at stop sign. Dangerous. Ignition switch was previously replaced. Dealership has no clue. After 5 acura's we are getting ready to dump Acura. still no computer codes fyi

anybody have any ideas.

 

Damn, how much did that cost?

Probably a long shot, but pull your EGR valve and blow it out with compressed air or replace it. The scans are available in the forum. Several threads on EGR.

 

how many miles on the car? Rare chance But ive seen some worn timing belts JUMP a tooth or 2 check to see if engine timing is correct, Or possible Faulty injector(s)

 

maybe you picked up some water from the ethanol in the gas. ethanol and water like each other. just a thought, but try some dry gas.

 

I don't know why but I thought you said you replaced the ECU already. Acura can't charge you to diagnose and when they're wrong charge you again. It should be a flat fee to tell you what's wrong with your car. When I was in the industry you can bet the car was diagnosed right because if it wasn't and it came back, it was on us to figure it out. I couldn't imagine telling the customer to pay me again for screwing it up the first time. Hold them accountable.

The car should be left with them overnight and the scanner should be hooked up recording data before it's started for the first time. As long as it fails while recording, the problem will be obvious.

Any other time I would go with this but EGR is usually not functional until the engine warms up. However, the TL with it's ULEV status is a bit different so who knows.

The only thing here is every injector would have to be bad to cause it to die and on top of that it would not run fine once hot.l

Since it runs fine once hot I just don't see this unless the small temperature rise helps.

 

IHC, temperature plays a huge part in solubility, think of sugar in your iced tea...if its cold, the sugar wont dissolve. Heat the tea up and you can dissolve a lot more sugar in there (this is how southern sweet tea is made). perhaps when the car is warm, the water/ethanol separation becomes more miscible.

This typically wont happen on a tank by tank basis but if you get the bottom of the barrell at the gas station, your chances are higher (water is heavier and will sink to the bottom).

 

I totally agree with you and his description of it dying definitely sounds like fuel contamination or even starvation. It's just that initial startup is fine and at some temp slightly above ambient it dies a few times and then it's fine again is just weird. You know way more about fuels than I do so who knows. It's just that it starts up fine when dead cold that's throwing me off.

 

You're right, the only plausible thing I thought for this was the pressurized fuel in the lines thats there when the car is setting at night. I'm not sure of the total volume in the lines though and whether it would be consumed in 2 mins.

Honestly this may be way off base but I do know that ethanol is very hygroscopic and will pick up any moisture in the air. I really wish they had left MTBE in gasoline but its a major pain in the butt to extract from the ground if it leaks from an underground storage tank. not to mention its bad for the environment. Ethanol isn't the greatest choice for an additive but its such a versitile solvent and readily available.

 

Definitely sounds like a fuel issue if the RPMs aren't jumping.

 

The 04 TL has about 50k miles on it. The first thing i thought was a fuel issue. We always fill with BP Premium. We run through about a tank a week. We switched over to a premium with no ethanol and ran it for a while and still had the same problem.

Early this morning i took it for another test drive. it was about 21F. Started fine, backed out of driveway no problem, drove about 70 yards took a hard left and locked up the antilock brakes (at about 5mph) heard a strange clicking sounding like passenger side under the hood... click (1 sec) click (1 sec ) click (1 sec) and then engine cut out. put it in park started right up. drove 40 feet and locked up the brakes again and engine cut out. started right up. drove next 50 miles no problems.

We did leave it overnight at the dealership. That's when we got the bill for them not finding anything.

I think we'll try the no ethanol gas for a few weeks. The dealership thinks it could be the fuel pump but I don't quite understand how warming up the engine could affect the fuel pump.

The other thing is that it is not a stall where the engine stumbles. it just cuts right out.

thanks for all the responses.

 

I do remember a throttle body issue occurring a while back during the winter. Anyone remember?

 

The times it's OK, is it also cold (23F or so)?

How long has this been going on? How many tanks of gas have you run through the system while this problem existed?

Is the idle rough, or just high?

And you've never got a CEL?

Are you sure the techs actually checked for a code?

 

Is the cutting out always/usually associated with brake application? Here's a wild one, but you might want to check the brake light switch adjustment...

Other possibilities:

vacuum leak?
EGR stuck open?
PCV valve ?

 

The service manager told us no codes. I talked to them twice. No CEL ever.

As the issue goes on we have noticed it is consistent at apprx. 20F and below. Warmer that 20F +/- a few degrees we never have a problem.

It has been happening since December of this year. We have probably filled about 8 times.

 

[quote=nfnsquared;12675400]Is the cutting out always/usually associated with brake application? Here's a wild one, but you might want to check the brake light switch adjustment...


it has cut out while driving, while idling, and while braking.

 

A couple more thoughts:

1. I have to assume when you left the car overnight, the dealer left it outside? If they didn't, then no wonder they couldn't duplicate the problem.

2. There is a TSB for reflashing the ECM/PCM. I'd ask the dealer to search your VIN# and see if there is a record of the update being done on your car.

3. The next time it's below 20F and you have time, try this. Start the car and let it run (stationary) until the radiator fan turns on. Then drive it and see if it still cuts out.

 

correction: brake pedal position switch

 

All of which would make it run bad or die all the time not just when cold.

 

OP, did you bypass the throttle body coolant line?

 

I like the way you think... Ice in the tb?

 

I feel like we're missing out on something.. tb freezing sounds like a good candidate.. although I'm not sure I've heard anyone report of this issue on the 3G side.

 

[QUOTE=Majofo;12675554]OP, did you bypass the throttle body coolant line?[/

No bypass. The car is factory original and only Acura maintained except for oil and the sensors I replaced.

 

I'd say that pretty much rules out fuel contamination...

 

This problem wouldn't seem so bad if it was happening during daylight in a decent part of town. It's the wife driving it and leaving work in detroit at midnight and having it cut out as she leaves work. Our solution right now is not to leave the parking garage with the security patrols until the car is warmed up. About 5 minutes.

 

Any updates?

I'm wondering now if your problem is a faulty fuel pump relay. The relay is on the under dash fuse panel, just above the fuses. (It's the bottom left relay, blue). It's only $30, so might be worth a shot...