I know that there are many threads about oil leaks. Sorry for making another one. For my defense, I will most likely probably fix it and then I will update this thread.
Because nothing is really broken on my car, and all maintenance is done, I'm getting slightly bored. My car has small oil leak. It's hard to see any change on the dip stick between 5k miles oil changes, but engine is definitely wet from oil. There's no visible oil on my parking spot, but I park outside (but always in the same way, in the same spot).
I did some checking and couldn't really come up with an answer. Right now I'm hoping for some advice.
Couple facts:
1. Oil seems to be leaking only when engine is under high load (or speed of leak is dependent on RPM or oil pressure). One time when I cleaned it, I drove for a week, and engine was still clean. I spent that week slowly, meaning under 3k RPM all the time.
2. When I rechecked bottom of the engine after longer trip and spending some quality time on the highway, engine was quite wet, even with some oil traveling as far as the transmission.
3. It seems to be leaking around oil filter housing. Usually housing and oil pan is covered with oil. Top of the engine is clean, so it's not leaking from valve cover or anything.
4. I did timing belt job, there are two photos:
At that time I believed that the oil under the timing belt covers came from tensioner. Area around camshafts was clean, and if it would be leaking from front main seal I would expect to have much more oil under that cover.
Also, "oil line" is quite higher that bottom of timing belt cover. Now when I look at those photos, it's hard to believe it came from tensioner. Who knows?
5. It's been leaking more or less steadily, since I got the car at around 73k miles, up to now at around 98k.
6. I'm using either 0W-20 or 5W-20, whatever is cheaper, synthetic, mobil1 or ultra platinum from Pennzoil, no other things like Lucas or magic oil or whatever.
Main questions:
1. I know that oil pump leak is common, but how does it look when pump is leaking? Where exactly is that oil coming from?
2. Any other spots I should pay extra attention, or any other advice?
- Like I wrote, one day I will clean it and put some dye, but I will do it before changing oil, so in another 1.5k miles.
- It's hard to find it, as idling doesn't produce leaks, and fast driving causes oil to spread.
Another idea would be getting hands on go Pro or some other small camera, and putting it there. No idea if there is enough space tho.
Oil pump - If you open the timing belt cover, you should be able to see if there's a leak there. If it wasn't done at your timing belt service, that's probably the source of the leak due to age & mileage of the car.
The other thing it may be, since you said it seems to happen on load but not when you drive it around 3k rpm are the VTEC solenoid seals. This is located in front of the passenger side front wheel well. There's some guides on here on how to locate and replace as well.
The great thing about the dye is you don't need to clean the old oil (unless the old oil shows up right now with UV light).
I just used dye to trace a tiny transmission oil leak on boat. Spent hours trying to guess from where the oil was leaking. Added dye, ran engine, tiny leak showed up in five minutes.
So there's update. Week ago I cleaned the bottom of the engine around the leak and put some dye in the oil. Next day and 30 miles later I didn't see anything.
Seven days of driving later that's how engine looks:
Spoiler
I tried to take the photo with UV light, both with yellow glasses and without, but you can't really see anything on the phone. So instead I will mark and describe what I found out. There is nothing in the front of the engine, very little under the crank pulley (more from the middle to the rear of the engine, nothing really from middle of the pulley to the front), most of it seems like it's coming from somewhere around oil filter assembly.
Now comparing to diagram from oemacuraparts:
1. So I guess it would be a decent bet to get gasket, part #12 on this diagram (15825-P8A-A01), and replace it.
2. How about those two nuts/plugs in the green zone. Do they have any function, and is it possible that they would leak?
3. Also, if it's coming from the red zone, then it's between engine block and the oil pump. Does that make any sense?
All of the sensors/solenoids in this area are clean.
4. And one unrelated question. That green corroded bleeder looking thing above "Nothing above this line." Is that to drain coolant from the water pump/block?
I decided to replace oil filter assembly gasket, #12 on that picture. Part number for my car (2008 base TL with 3.2) was "15825-P8A-A01" but it should be the same for all models and versions.
There is the page from service manual:
Weirdly enough it's in engine assembly section, not engine lube. Torque on those bolts is 16 lbf-ft (or 22Nm), and one bolt is slightly longer so remember that.
Of course the only picture that I took is out of focus.
Anyways job is very simple. Hardest part was getting Vtec solenoid connector out of bracket - not much space and it was stuck there.
I cleaned the engine and came back two days later. There is still some oil leaking, but very little, especially that I was stepping on the gas pedal more often than usual.
Looks like there is some oil seeping in front of the engine. On first photo you can see crank pulley on the left, and serpentine belt tensioner on the right.
There is some oil in that spot between block and pump again, but filter housing is completely clean.
I hope that I fixed more major leak, left with only oil pump seepage, which is nothing new for me or for those cars.
Anyways, guess that's all that I will do for now. If I find out something new I will update this thread.
If some mod can add to the title something like "oil filter assembly gasket" it might make it easier for other people to find.
Right. I really don't understand why they call it a spool valve. It's just a gasket. Better yet, I ordered the part from Amazon (prime shipping was available), and the part there is called "Spool Valve Filter". Go figure!
Since I forgot about this thread and it was used recently, here's the update.
Turned out to be oil pump.
At time of creating this thread I didn't really know how the oil pump is build on those engines since I never pulled one off.
All of the leak comes from the right top arrow area - that's where oil pump feeds oil into rest of the block. There's a "8" shaped rubber gasket that goes bad (you can actually see an outline of that on the block). Mine fell apart in hands when I tried to bend it, while main crank, cam, pickup tube, and filter housing gaskets were all soft and nice. Oil pump slightly sticks out over the block (the silver area that's cleaned) and makes oil either drip on tensioner and around front seal, or just floats and coats oil filter housing (follows the left arrow).
Overall it's expensive repair for how little oil it leaks, so I've done oil pump reseal only like 3x including my own car. Mine could stay clean for days after washing the engine and never dripped on the garage floor.
Yup I got this same exact leak. Just isolated the exact spot and literally watched oil seep out onto the perfectly freshly washed and dried engine. Hopped online to find a parts diagram and immediately stumbled into this thread. So glad to see I am not the only one. I thought this was a self induced problem from my general lack of use of the car thinking seals/gaskets dried up from that. Just made me so happy to see it happens allot! Thank you for your time and efforts here guys!
I have exactly the same thing happened on my 04 TL and replaced all the necessary gaskets (oil pump seal, vtec solenoid seal, etc.) after the timing belt, water pump, oil pan job but after driving it for about 3000kms. the leak came back and this time it got worse. I ended up putting almost a jug of oil the last few days just to get me going. I'm trying to figure out where the oil is coming from, all I know is the huge drip is flowing towards the oil drain pan (not my usual suspect as it is tight and has brand new washer). I may have to remove everything again (timing belt, oil pan) to verify if everything is in order when I put them in, it is a pain so to speak to go through the process again but I have to do it. We'll see what happens.
Since I forgot about this thread and it was used recently, here's the update.
Turned out to be oil pump.
At time of creating this thread I didn't really know how the oil pump is build on those engines since I never pulled one off.
All of the leak comes from the right top arrow area - that's where oil pump feeds oil into rest of the block. There's a "8" shaped rubber gasket that goes bad (you can actually see an outline of that on the block). Mine fell apart in hands when I tried to bend it, while main crank, cam, pickup tube, and filter housing gaskets were all soft and nice. Oil pump slightly sticks out over the block (the silver area that's cleaned) and makes oil either drip on tensioner and around front seal, or just floats and coats oil filter housing (follows the left arrow).
Overall it's expensive repair for how little oil it leaks, so I've done oil pump reseal only like 3x including my own car. Mine could stay clean for days after washing the engine and never dripped on the garage floor.
Thank you, Peter, for your perseverance and methodical investigation! Thank you, Thoiboi, for diagnosing the root cause!
My 08 TL is having the same oil leak. Initially I suspected the oil pan gasket because the oil tends to pool in that area. But I also saw the wetness on the oil pump just as Peter's photos depicted. Thank you both, I now know the root cause!
It's disheartening that Honda engineers made this repair so unnecessarily difficult! How many shop hours does it require roughly? I'm planning to replace timing belt / water pump myself and wonder if it makes sense to have this leak repaired by a professional altogether. My leak currently causes just wetness, no drips yet. It'd be nice if it won't get much worse and last another 7 years till the next timing belt change. My passenger side axle seal had been leaking for 5 years before I bit the bullet and replaced it. That seal was constantly rubbing against the axle...
Water pump 4.9h, just the timing belt 4.6h, oil pump 5.9h, just the oil pan 1.8h. Kinda weird as I would assume it's whatever is for timing belt + oil pan + 0.5h extra. If going through the shop expect them to count it like that (them to add ~2h hours on top of water pump job).
Hardest part is getting the exhaust off. I was able to split it behind the 3rd cat. Nuts were completely rounded off but I welded new nuts to them to get them off. Studs were fine. No problem with the front nuts after heating them with the torch.
Water pump 4.9h, just the timing belt 4.6h, oil pump 5.9h, just the oil pan 1.8h. Kinda weird as I would assume it's whatever is for timing belt + oil pan + 0.5h extra. If going through the shop expect them to count it like that (them to add ~2h hours on top of water pump job).
Hardest part is getting the exhaust off. I was able to split it behind the 3rd cat. Nuts were completely rounded off but I welded new nuts to them to get them off. Studs were fine. No problem with the front nuts after heating them with the torch.
Thank you, Peter!
Your words encouraged me to think that I might be able to perform this job myself. I'd been studying and ready to replace timing belt/water pump myself before I came across your post. If the additional work is just removing the exhaust pipe to get to the oil pan and oil pump, I'd be up to the challenge. Would you please post some of your photos doing this job if available? I and many people would deeply appreciate it!
Once you disconnect the passenger side mount, does the engine sink a bit without a jack supporting the oil pan? Do you still have enough space to wiggle the oil pan out of the subframe?
My service manual on 07-08 TL seems to be crazy on the oil pan removal instructions (SM 7-11, attached below). It asks to disconnect a bunch of things from the engine, including the steering wheel and steering shaft; tear down suspension components (stabilizer links, damper forks, tie-rod ends, knuckles); disconnect transmission mount, front/rear engine mounts; lower the subframe with special tools. It'd be too much for me to chew if I have to do all those, impossible without the special tools.
Oil Pan Removal Special Tools Required
• Front subframe adapter VSB02C000016
• Engine support hanger, A and Reds AAR-T-12566
• Engine hanger balance bar VSB02C000019
These special tools are available through Honda Tool and Equipment Program, 1-888-424-6857
1. If the engine is out of the vehicle, go to step 44.
2. Make sure you have the anti-theft codes for the audio system and the navigation system (if equipped).
3. Remove the left side engine compartment cover and the left rear engine compartment cover (see step 3 on page 5-2).
4. Remove the right side engine compartment cover, then remove the right rear engine compartment cover (see step 4 on page 5-2).
5. Remove the engine cover (see step 5 on page 5-3).
6. Drain the power steering system fluid, then plug the fluid reservoir and return hose (see page 17-13).
7. Disconnect the negative cable from the battery, then disconnect the positive cable.
8. Remove the battery.
9. Remove the breather pipe, then remove the intake air duct (see step 10 on page 5-3).
10. Remove the air cleaner assembly (see page 11-361).
11 . Remove the battery base (see step 13 on page 5-3).
12. Remove the under-hood fuse/relay box (see step 15 on page 5-3).
13. Remove the strut brace (see step 16 on page 5-4).
14. Remove the power steering (P/S) pump outlet line from the PIS pump, then plug the outlet line and the PIS pump (see step 23 on page 5-5).
15. Remove the steering wheel (see page 17-22).
16. Make a reference mark across the steering joint and steering gearbox pinion shaft. Remove the steering joint bolt, and disconnect the steering joint from the steering gearbox pinion shaft (see step 28 on page 5-5).
17. Raise the vehicle on the lift to full height.
18. Remove the front wheels.
19. Remove the engine under cover (see step 32 on page 5-6).
20. Remove the splash shield (see step 33 on page 5-6).
21. Drain the engine oil (see page 8-6).
22. Disconnect the stabilizer links (see page 18-23).
23. Remove the damper fork (see step 5 on page 18-25).
24. Separate the tie-rod end ball joints from the knuckles (see step 11 on page 18-14).
25. Separate the knuckles from the lower arms (see step 5 on page 18-21).
26. Remove the exhaust pipe A (see step 42 on page 5-6).
27. Remove the PIS hose, then plug the line and the hose (see step 43 on page 5-7).
28. Disconnect the power steering pressure switch connector (see step 44 on page 5-7).
29. M/T model: Remove the transmission lower front mount and transmission lower rear mount (see step 45 on page 5-7).
30. A/T model: Remove the transmission lower mount (see step 46 on page 5-7).
31. Lower the vehicle.
32. A/T model: Remove the shift cable bracket from the front subframe (see step 55 on page 5-9).
33. Install the engine support hanger and engine hanger balance bar (see step 56 on page 5-9).
34. Remove the front engine mount stop, then remove the front engine mount bolt and vacuum hose (see step 57 on page 5-9).
35. M/T model: Remove the rear engine damper (see step 58 on page 5-9).
36. Remove the rear engine mount stop, then remove the rear engine mount bolt (see step 59 on page 5-10).
37. Remove the vacuum hose (see step 60 on page 5-10).
38. M/T model: Remove the shift cable bracket (see step 61 on page 5-10).
39. Raise the vehicle on the lift to full height.
40. Make the appropriate reference lines at both ends of the subframe that line up with the edge of the stiffeners (see step 63 on page 5-10).
41. Attach the front subframe adapter to the subframe (see step 64 on page 5-10).
42. Remove the subframe middle mount (see step 66 on page 5-11).
43. Remove the mounting bolts securing the subframe stiffeners and front subframe (see step 67 on page 5-11).
44. Remove the rear warm up three way catalytic converter (rear WU-TWC) bracket.
45. Remove the torque converter cover (A/T) or clutch cover (M/T) (A) and the four bolts (B) securing the transmission.
46. Remove the bolts securing the oil pan.
47. Using a flat-tip screwdriver, separate the oil pan from the block in the places shown.
48. Remove the oil pan.
They want you to lower the subframe, that's why they make you disconnect all those things. Considering that and amount of labor they give you I don't think it's possible to do it this way in 1.8h.
Instead, with only the side mount removed, I lifted the engine from the top. I used breaker bar (and put it somewhere across, like strut tower and top rad support with some 2x4s, don't really remember) and some ratcheting straps to support the engine.
If doing the job now, I would probably get the front & rear mounts slightly loose. You need to move engine or lower the subframe in order for the oil pan to clear the subframe, and oil pickup tube will be working against you.
And getting the pan back is more difficult since you need to be careful not to make the mating surface oily in order for silicon to stick properly.
So overall the more space you make between oil pan and subframe, the easier it will be to pull it off and put it back on.
If other mounts are fine, engine almost doesn't move at all with side mount removed.
If you have impact gun, get lisle socket to get the harmonic balancer / crank pulley bolt off.
Try looking over YouTube as there must be a video of somebody doing it. If not on TL accord should be that far off.
I also found an oil pan thread with photos: https://acurazine.com/forums/3g-tl-p...oil-pan-844542
All these resources presented 2 methods of jacking up the engine: under the transmission or the passenger side engine mount bracket. I'm curious if both methods lift the engine up pretty evenly or tilt the engine one way vs the other to have a preference. From your experience, how many inches of such lift is reasonably safe to avoid damaging anything?
Just replaced the oil filter housing gasket on my 2004 TL due to a small drip. Fingers crossed it's not the oil pump but we will see. The old gasket was very stiff and not plyable at all, it cracked coming off!
3 Bolts were easy as was the lower harness. Upper one took a few minutes to get unplugged and back in. I recommend electrical contact cleaner before putting the wires back in to make sure no dirt/grease is in the connectors.
and then I will update this thread.
