I recently bought this 2007 TL Type-S with 220,000 miles with an oil leak. After cleaning some of the old accumulated oily black dirt from the highest apparent source of the leak, it seems to be coming from here.
Has anyone seen the J35A8 head gasket fail in such a way as to cause an oil leak in this spot?

I'm not getting coolant in the oil, nor oil in the coolant. Nor do I see air bubbles flowing through the coolant in the radiator when the engine is running and warm (with the radiator cap off).
It seems like a strange place for a head gasket to start leaking.
But then again, after 220k miles, maybe I should be more surprised that it's not leaking everywhere! ;-)

It seems there might be a chance the oil is actually coming from nearby, may from the housing into which the EGR valve bolts, but I wouldn't think that housing would be connecting to the oiling system.



Oil leak

 

remove coils and check the spark plugs for oil, look around valve gaskets too since oil likes to travel. Has car been in an accident? Could be a crack in the block or another part that expands when car is at operating temp.

 

Thanks for the suggestions. No accidents. And it's definitely not the valve cover gaskets, because they were replaced recently and the cylinder head is not wet with oil in the area directly beneath the valve covers. Plugs and coils are dry, too.
I'm down to the front head now, and have narrowed the oil leak down to 2 possibilities: the head gasket or the o-ring on the front camshaft thrust cover -- part #13 here:
https://www.acuraoemparts.com/auto-p...nder-head-scat

Below are some pics, including one with a mirror to show the bottom of the thrust cover.
With the amount of oil that leaks out over time after only a short drive, I don't think that o-ring even has that much oil to hold back. So, I think the oil is probably wicking up to that assembly from a leaking head gasket, rather than flowing down from that assembly.
It has been leaking for a while, too. But I see more dirt buildup on the front of the EGR mating area than up around the thrust cover. And when I squirted engine cleaner earlier, I could not get to that area under the thrust cover.
So, I'm guessing it's the head gasket.

Has anyone ever seen that o-ring on the thrust cover leak? And if so, was the leak bad enough to release so much oil that it dripped all the way down the engine and created a small puddle on the floor?

FWIW, I tested the front 3 cylinders, and they all have good compression and minimal leakdown.

 

I can tell you this from experience, you would be surprised just how much that 'cam thrust cover' o-ring can leak.

When I remove the SC'er from my 03 CLS6 the front head mounted 'blower bracket' attaches at that point. When the thrust cover is removed and left to sit, oil will pool inside that space, even with the oil at room temp and engine not running.

Refer to the picture at step #11 on page number 7 on the blower install instructions on the link below, you will see what I mean.

The O-ring used on that thrust cover is NOTORIOUS for getting 'pinched' and ruined when installing the blower bracket attached to the SC'er, and thus prone to leak.

That's the point I would start with. Besides, the O-ring is like less than $2. Remove the EGR, remove two nuts and take the thrust cover off. Replace o-ring, hose that area down with brake clean and test for leaks.

 

Thanks for the helpful info and pic, zeta! Unfortunately, I have already removed the fuel rails and injectors, the intake manifold, the exhaust manifold, the timing belt, etc. In fact, the only steps left to remove the front head are (a) remove the valve cover and (b) remove the head bolts.
FYI, before I cleaned it, that pad on the front of the block with the engine number was totally caked in oily dirt. And from the pic below, it looks like the most dirt is at arrow A, then Arrows B, C, and D, in that order. And there's not much oil or dirt on the pad at arrow E. But if the o ring was leaking, I'd expect much more oil and dirt at arrow E, and "downwind" from there (i.e., toward the rear of the engine). But the engine block is relatively clean downwind from the thrust cover. Also, the coolant manifold is just below the thrust cover. So if the thrust cover were leaking, I'd expect a very dirty coolant manifold. But as indicated in the other pic below, mine is not very dirty.
So now I'm thinking its like a 95% chance of being the head gasket,

 

When I had the clutch done on my TL I gave it a very good once-over while it was up on the lift. The engine has a very slow oil leak from the front head, and in the opinion of the mechanic (who has worked on countless J-Series engines), a leak up there is virtually always the cam seals.

In my case, I'm going to keep an eye on things; unless things get much worse, I'll wait getting the leak fixed until I need my next timing belt.

 

^^
MBLiberty, wow, I didn't realize you had performed that much disassembly.

To be prudent though, do us a favor, while you are there, replace that $2 o-ring. Better yet, if you decide to replace it, take nice close-up detailed pics, like the ones above, of the o-ring, on the thrust cover before it's removed. It's very possible that if it is that o-ring there may be a visible 'flat' spot evident.

Good Luck on your head gasket replacement.

 

Yep, might as well replace the o-ring, too.
In the meantime, I went ahead and pulled the head. I found a rather big pool of oil in an indention on the block between the two oil passages on the lower right edge of the head.
Both the head, the block, and both gasket surfaces seemed to look okay. However, the layers of the MLS gasket were not bonded together well.
I'm wondering if the oil might have been leaking between the gasket layers.
Are those layers supposed to be bonded together?

 

So, just to clarify, the area of the head where you experienced oil leakage corresponds with the area of the head gasket that appears separated, correct?

If so, then it is reasonable to assume that it (the head gasket) could be defective and just 'gave up the ghost' after 220K.

 

The gasket actually seems to be separated just about everywhere, other than the two spots that are held together with what look like brass rivets. And after some wiping and closer inspection of the both sides of the gasket face, the black coating is damaged most significantly along the outer edge of the portion that is supposed to seal the oil-passage second from the right (circled in red below). I was thinking the leak was at the passage all the way to the right. But second from the right would make sense, since that pool of oil in the block was between those passages.

 

BTW, when I reassemble, I don't need new head bolts, do I?
And is there any reason not to use the following gasket set?
Evergreen HS4040 Cylinder Head Gasket Set, for $94.60. It only has 7 reviews, but they are mostly 5-stars, and one 4-star.

 

I would use OEM head gasket or good brand name gasket company like Felpro. As far as the head bolts you can reuse them, make sure they are tight with the correct procedure per factory service manual. Your internal looks clean for a 200k+ miles car tho.

 

After taking off the rear head I can see that its gasket looks as bad as the front head, but it wasn't leaking. :-P
It does look clean inside the engine. I wonder if the engine is original. Are the 7 digits stamped beneath "J35A8" (3502117) supposed to match my VIN?

 

The J-Series engines are known for looking clean inside, even if minimal maintenance has been performed. Basically buy basic 5W-20, change it at least every 10,000 miles, and the engine will keep buggering on (in the words of Sir Winston Churchill).

 

Thanks again! Turns out both decks and the rear head are as flat as I can measure with an 0.0015 feeler gauge, and the front head has a small area near the exhaust collector that is about 0.0015 off. I figure that and the worn gasket was enough to explain the oil leak by the front head.
And I think the tolerance is supposed to be 0.002 (with a good gasket). And I'd like to avoid stripping off the rocker arms, cam, etc. So I don't plan to get the head milled. I plan to clean the surfaces with 1000 grit and slap it back together with OEM gaskets, and the old bolts.
When you say to torque them as per the service manual, do you have a link? Or do you mean as stated here?
https://acurazine.com/forums/3g-tl-p...gasket-919860/

 

If what you're saying about the tolerance is true, then it sounds like it's within spec no? .0015 being smaller than .002.

 

Check the sticky threads you can download one for free and yes its the same one they used at the dealer.

 

Thanks, truonghthe. Can you be more specific, please?
E.g., do you mean the sticky threads in this particular forum (3G TL Problems & Fixes")? Because I only see one stick thread there, and it has the following three links:
3G TL Technical Service Bulletins (TSB's)
Acura Service News publications
The 3G Garage.
And I don't see a link to a Service Manual in any of those three.
(And I don't know if its relevant, but The Garage also says "POSTED 21 APR 2017 [-]DUE TO CIRCUMSTANCES BEYOND OUR CONTROL, MOST OF THE LINKS IN THE 3G GARAGE DO NOT WORK.")

 

I will post the link later. This computer is old.

 

Thanks, truonghthe.
Also, zeta, here is a pic of my thrust cover with o-ring. I don't see any flat spots, so now I doubt that it was the culprit.
And FYI, I decided to take the head to the machine shop, after all, in case the deck is off by a small amount that, when added to 0.0015, adds up to more than 0.002.
Also, in other threads I've seen some recommendations to use OEM gaskets. But some say that name-brand (like Fel-pro) is fine. And I can get 2 Fel-pro "Permatorque" (26329PT) from Rock Auto for under $15 x 2 = $30, while OEM is $68 x 2 = $136.
Or I could get 2 Mahle for $35 x 2 = $70.
Does anyone know if OEM is really better than Fel-pro and Mahle?

 

here is the link to SM to download.

https://www.dropbox.com/sh/dsxqvazck...WNWGAlSEa?dl=0

 

Thanks for the picture!

I used a Felpro lower intake manifold gasket to repair an '01 Olds Alero back in 2008 and it was 'very well made'.

With that said, It was stated, at the time, to be the best one to use to fix the leaky LIM problem associated with those vehicles. I've had zero problems with the car and it continues to run strong.

 

How does your oil pump area look? I heard yesterday from an Acura service advisor that those are notorious for leaking.Pretty sure mine is too a little bit.

 

@zeta: Thanks for the info on head gaskets. I went ahead and ordered "Mahle Original / Victor Reinz" brand from Rock Auto (https://www.rockauto.com/en/moreinfo...1438264&jsn=10), and they just arrived arrived. They cost more than Fel-pro but less than OEM, and they look and feel practically identical to factory. I think they'll be fine until I get to 300k, at least :-) And about my earlier concern about the layers not being bonded on my old gasket, these aren't bonded together, either, aside from the rivets, so I guess that's normal.

@Accord_V6_400m: The oil pump area is clean. In fact, the dealer replaced the oil pump last year, according to the paperwork that came with the car.

Also, I was wondering how to remove the oil control orifices (since the 2004 factory service manual (FSM) says "Clean and install the oil control orifices (A) with new O-rings (B)" (p. 6/50). But it doesn't say how to remove them, at least not that I could find. And neither does the Haynes manual. I've seen pics of someone driving a wood screw into the orifice, but to prevent damage, I tried using a plastic wall anchor, and it worked! And it was interesting to find that the rear was looser than the front -- maybe a sign that the o-ring on the rear was failing. So I'm glad I got them out.

And finally, can someone with a 2007 or 2008 factory service manual confirm that, for this J35A8 (Type-S), I am supposed to torque to yield (TTY) by torquing to 22 ft./lbs., then tightening another 90 degrees, 2 or 3 times, depending on whether using new bolts?

The 2004 factory service manual (which may not apply to the J35A8, which was only used in 2007-08) says (on p. 6-52) to torque the head bolts to 72.3 ft./lbs. (in increments yada yada yada).
By contrast, the 2012 factory service manual (for the J35Z6 engine) says to use the TTY approach.
And FWIW, the Haynes manual supposedly covering 1999-2008 shows (on p. 2A-3) says to use the TTY approach for "models with 12-point bolts" (which my engine has), and to use 72 ft./lbs. for engines with 6-point bolts. So, I plan to use TTY, unless the 2007 service manual says differently.

 

Dis the leaking ever stop? I have the same exact issue on my 07 TL Type S!

 

Yep, getting the head milled and replacing the head gaskets fixed that leak.
The outside of my engine is dry as a bone now. :-)

 

Thats awesome man! I was painting my brembo calipers and decided to check engine bay. Not only do i need new head gasket, the crank seal is also leaking so my life will suck for forseable months to follow. Probably replace everything i can after i take the heads and crank out.

Was it relatively easy to take apart the heads? I already replaced valve cover gaskets with felpro kit and it works like a charm. Im thinking it will just be a few more steps after this? I plan to get all new bolts as well

 

I had to get tools to hold the cam while unbolting the gear and to compress the springs, but with those, the disassembly wasn't too bad. Maybe the hardest part was getting the heads back on without gouging the surface on the dowel pins. I ended up using a second set of hands, and putting a head bolt in the head to help me line it up before dropping it down.
I also pulled the trans for a suspected rear main leak, but then, once I could see the left side of the engine, I found oil leaking from the driver's side cam plug (on the rear head, I think). So I fixed that, too. It might not have been necessary to replace the rear main seal, after all. Also, I found that my PCV valve had cracked (because it was missing the little metal bushing that goes between the valve and the heard), which was probably making the problem worse.
I think they make dye you can put in the oil, to enable you to use a UV light to track leaks. You might want to do that before deciding you need a rear main / crank seal.

 

Yeah, i took the car to the acura dealer and they told me it was a crankcase leak, head gasket leak, ps pump leak, rear main seal leak, amongst other small things. I had just also replaced all 4 engine mounts with OEM ones. That may have accelerated the leak because of the engine being mounted tighter now with more vibrations. I gave the ps pump a makeover with new seals the other week and it is brand new again. There are just too many problems with this car now but i figure minus well fix the damn thing now that i paid it off...

 

Shouldn't the new engine mounts mean *less* vibration? Also I would suspect that it was jacking the engine up and down against the rear main seal that exacerbated that leak.

Finally, what quantity of oil are you leaking? Most of my cars burn an extra quart or two per year... kinda like an old man and his underwear... it's a fact of life.

 

You would think that is the case, but there is more vibration due to the mounts actually working and not sagging because the rubber was destroyed. The engine is well centered now. The rear main seal was already leaking before the mounts were installed. The jacking of the engine oil pan may have contributed as well but thats all hindsight now. I will have to repair regardless. Im actually not losing much oil, very negligible. but i just dont like it leaking. I want a bone dry engine.