2004 TL No injector pulse.... N00b needs help.
05-31-2018, 05:08 PM
#1
3rd Gear
Thread Starter
2004 TL No injector pulse.... N00b needs help.
Hi... N00b to Acuras. Quick background. I am the second mechanic in a one-horse garage and I get all the weird and difficult stuff. We pretty much work on anything under the sun and I find myself often in places where I need help. We simply cannot afford the $150-$200 a month subscriptions to Alldata, Mitchell or the like, so I find myself in the dark.
I *have* found that marque forums are a terrific place to plumb knowledge and experience. It seems that I very rarely run into an issue that someone else hasn't already torn their hair out over.
So.... 2004 TL quit on my customer while driving. Just winked out, no stumbling, wheezing, just stopped. It has good cranking, I can get it to fire on starting fluid, and if I put a fuel gauge in the connection at the back of the rail, I have 55psi. When I hook a scanner to the car, I have no DTCs, none in memory, pending, or history. I do get a tach reading while cranking. It seems to me that I'm not getting an injector pulse.
Questions.....
Where do the injectors get their signal? Cam or crank sensor? I want to assume that the crank sensor works or I wouldn't get the tach signal, but that's kind of a generic thing.
I checked sales history with the local dealer and they've sold crank sensors, but never, ever a cam sensor. My extrapolation from other vehicles leads me to think the cam sensor is the culprit, but....
I have not been able to find any test procedures and/or values for either sensor. I'm also half expecting that when I take any of the covers off that this thing is gonna want a timing belt too, on account of as how that's what my luck's like. LOL!
'Preciate any helpful tips and info.
Jeb
I *have* found that marque forums are a terrific place to plumb knowledge and experience. It seems that I very rarely run into an issue that someone else hasn't already torn their hair out over.
So.... 2004 TL quit on my customer while driving. Just winked out, no stumbling, wheezing, just stopped. It has good cranking, I can get it to fire on starting fluid, and if I put a fuel gauge in the connection at the back of the rail, I have 55psi. When I hook a scanner to the car, I have no DTCs, none in memory, pending, or history. I do get a tach reading while cranking. It seems to me that I'm not getting an injector pulse.
Questions.....
Where do the injectors get their signal? Cam or crank sensor? I want to assume that the crank sensor works or I wouldn't get the tach signal, but that's kind of a generic thing.
I checked sales history with the local dealer and they've sold crank sensors, but never, ever a cam sensor. My extrapolation from other vehicles leads me to think the cam sensor is the culprit, but....
I have not been able to find any test procedures and/or values for either sensor. I'm also half expecting that when I take any of the covers off that this thing is gonna want a timing belt too, on account of as how that's what my luck's like. LOL!
'Preciate any helpful tips and info.
Jeb
06-01-2018, 09:40 PM
#2
Senior Moderator
Are you seeing a blinking green key in the gauge cluster? If yes, it could be the immobilizer system cutting fuel
Check the PCM under the center console (behind the radio area) for water damage. If the A/C drain blocks it can backup right on to the PCM.
There's a link to the factory HELMS service manual in this link, scroll down to the middle:
https://acurazine.com/forums/third-g...ng-all-926323/
Read the troubleshooting sections and it should have all the values and diagnostics info. It may cite using HDS (Honda Diagnostic system) but there is usually a way to get the same info without HDS, just takes a bit longer like shorting pins and waiting for lights to blink in a sequence to read the code.
Check the PCM under the center console (behind the radio area) for water damage. If the A/C drain blocks it can backup right on to the PCM.
There's a link to the factory HELMS service manual in this link, scroll down to the middle:
https://acurazine.com/forums/third-g...ng-all-926323/
Read the troubleshooting sections and it should have all the values and diagnostics info. It may cite using HDS (Honda Diagnostic system) but there is usually a way to get the same info without HDS, just takes a bit longer like shorting pins and waiting for lights to blink in a sequence to read the code.
Last edited by csmeance; 06-01-2018 at 09:42 PM.
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NikonJeb (06-17-2018)
06-02-2018, 11:04 AM
#3
3rd Gear
Thread Starter
There's a link to the factory HELMS service manual in this link, scroll down to the middle:
https://acurazine.com/forums/third-g...ng-all-926323/
https://acurazine.com/forums/third-g...ng-all-926323/
Read the troubleshooting sections and it should have all the values and diagnostics info. It may cite using HDS (Honda Diagnostic system) but there is usually a way to get the same info without HDS, just takes a bit longer like shorting pins and waiting for lights to blink in a sequence to read the code.
I will be looking into the CKP/CMP testing procedures though.
Thanks again for your time and info.
06-17-2018, 07:09 AM
#4
3rd Gear
Thread Starter
Yah, so it's fixed...
It's funny how when you're trying to fix something for a customer how they seem to neglect giving you all the relevant details.
These cars are extremely sophisticated and pretty darn bulletproof.
When the thing doesn't tell you that it has an engine management issue, you can believe it.
It didn't make sense that it had no injector pulse, but it leaned that way.
Turns out, the injectors were being triggered properly, but....
WATER doesn't burn.
This guy's @$$hole wife dumped contaminated gas into the car from a can in the shed.
Drove it about fifteen minutes and it shut off.
They didn't mention this to us until we grilled them as to the history of the issue.
So we spent hours trying to untangle why the car wouldn't run when they could have mentioned this when we originaslly asked them to tell us what happened leading up to the failure.
Drained the tank & flushed the lines and it started right up.
My appreciation for these cars is raised, and my disdain for customers who can't be bothered to help their own case is likewise raised.
Thanks for the help and the link to the FSM.
It's funny how when you're trying to fix something for a customer how they seem to neglect giving you all the relevant details.
These cars are extremely sophisticated and pretty darn bulletproof.
When the thing doesn't tell you that it has an engine management issue, you can believe it.
It didn't make sense that it had no injector pulse, but it leaned that way.
Turns out, the injectors were being triggered properly, but....
WATER doesn't burn.
This guy's @$$hole wife dumped contaminated gas into the car from a can in the shed.
Drove it about fifteen minutes and it shut off.
They didn't mention this to us until we grilled them as to the history of the issue.
So we spent hours trying to untangle why the car wouldn't run when they could have mentioned this when we originaslly asked them to tell us what happened leading up to the failure.
Drained the tank & flushed the lines and it started right up.
My appreciation for these cars is raised, and my disdain for customers who can't be bothered to help their own case is likewise raised.
Thanks for the help and the link to the FSM.
06-17-2018, 09:42 AM
#5
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@NikonJeb, please refrain from using the BOLD typeface; it makes it sound like you're yelling at us.
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