Turbo Kit for Acura TL '04-'08
04-05-2009, 04:58 AM
#81
Instructor
Thread Starter
The air won't have time to cool off even with the turbo behind the third cat. It would take .5 seconds to reach the throttlebody from there. Still, I would bet the charge air from 8psi of turbo boost will be a bit cooler than the 4psi from the roots blower.
I'm telling you in advance it's going to be laggy sitting way back there away from the engine. This is how turbos get the reputation for lag.
Intercoolers aren't just a heat exhanger, at low speeds they act as a heatsink. I recommend using one, even if you have to go liquid to air and install it under the hood. You can expect a 10-20% increase in power.
Another thing, don't go large on the exhaust feeding the turbo. For a single feed, 2.5" should be the absolute max feeding the turbo. You can come off the heads with 2.25" or 2.5" but they need to merge together as early as possible. This is a critical area that will make or break the spool characteristics. If in doubt err on the small side.
Run a good 3" exhaust from the turbo all the way back, no worries about backpressure.
A properly setup 8psi intercooled turbo should produce close to 400whp on the TL. Don't forget, you're gaining the 50hp or so it takes to drive the blower. Even if it made the usual 320hp the supercharged cars make it would be easier on the engine since it would take 370ish hp supercharged to show 320 at the wheels.
I'm telling you in advance it's going to be laggy sitting way back there away from the engine. This is how turbos get the reputation for lag.
Intercoolers aren't just a heat exhanger, at low speeds they act as a heatsink. I recommend using one, even if you have to go liquid to air and install it under the hood. You can expect a 10-20% increase in power.
Another thing, don't go large on the exhaust feeding the turbo. For a single feed, 2.5" should be the absolute max feeding the turbo. You can come off the heads with 2.25" or 2.5" but they need to merge together as early as possible. This is a critical area that will make or break the spool characteristics. If in doubt err on the small side.
Run a good 3" exhaust from the turbo all the way back, no worries about backpressure.
A properly setup 8psi intercooled turbo should produce close to 400whp on the TL. Don't forget, you're gaining the 50hp or so it takes to drive the blower. Even if it made the usual 320hp the supercharged cars make it would be easier on the engine since it would take 370ish hp supercharged to show 320 at the wheels.
Thanks you very much for the input, and I'll for sure take it under consideration. Not that it's the same set up but the Verron is using 300hp to get all its turbo to bring the extra power out. I could push it to the 400HP but being a front wheel drive and a car I use quiet often I do not want to have to buy tires more than I need. And also I don't want to put to much stress on the Transmission. The last time I did such a build it was on my 94 Legend. I went all out on that one, boring it, bigger pistons, fuel and everything. A month after the job was complete I had to put a new transmission because I was to much power that it could handle. So 350WHP should be reasonable.
I'm using a good reliable turbo, from Turbo tuner. It's a Turbonetics Turbo T3 that cost me $800. II did not want to use a cheap Ebay one and have go for an upgrade sooner or later. The E manage was about $200, then the fuel, labor for piping and the big labor. We are in the very final steps. Most of the build had already been done and putting the inter cooler will just required some more bending.
We got the last past which was the Greddy E manage yesterday so this coming week we should putting the pipes back, relocate the oil return from the trunk to under the car next to the turbo and start the tuning.
So by the end of next week hopefully we should get some dyno runs.
04-05-2009, 08:27 AM
#82
^^read the forum rules. I keep seeing you post, but have yet to see something productive come of it.
Banelba, i am local in atlanta, i have a 2nd gen tl that is currently under the knife too. I would like to speak to your guy about bending some pipes for me.
Banelba, i am local in atlanta, i have a 2nd gen tl that is currently under the knife too. I would like to speak to your guy about bending some pipes for me.
04-07-2009, 09:59 PM
#85
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damn man....that is some info.....
all the best.....
all the best.....
04-08-2009, 11:32 PM
#88
Team Owner
04-08-2009, 11:40 PM
#89
Instructor
Thread Starter
Almost there, we are almost there and just finishing up. Plus the fact that I waited until the last minute to add the inter cooler push us back. We had to fabricate 2more pipes and polishing them too. Can wait to get back on my TL.
04-09-2009, 09:25 AM
#90
I can't wait for you to get it back either, but I REALLY want to see some dynos results, pics, video, sound clips, the whole sha-bang!
04-09-2009, 10:29 AM
#91
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Cant wait to see how the TL engine and tranny responds to the Turbo
04-09-2009, 04:46 PM
#95
Team Owner
LOL. I'm trying to get my GN out of the bodyshop in time to take it to the movie with open exhaust. The whistle is super loud with the exhaust open. It should be a fun night.
04-09-2009, 11:52 PM
#99
Team Owner
04-09-2009, 11:54 PM
#100
Team Owner
04-11-2009, 02:30 AM
#101
Instructor
Thread Starter
04-11-2009, 04:54 AM
#102
04-11-2009, 05:33 AM
#103
all your going to be able to do is tune the a/f, thats it (no timing, vtec control etc,..). did you just assume that it was plug n play and be able to use all of its functions and capabilities? shoulda did your research before you bought it. 
ive tried everything imaginable to get it to work for our cars, but no deal. like NVA said, its just not compatible with our type of crank sensors. i used it to run my original 3.0 for a year with just an a/f tune, but then again im only boosting 4-5 psi, so i can get away with it. i wouldnt take a chance like that with a turbo.
ive tried everything imaginable to get it to work for our cars, but no deal. like NVA said, its just not compatible with our type of crank sensors. i used it to run my original 3.0 for a year with just an a/f tune, but then again im only boosting 4-5 psi, so i can get away with it. i wouldnt take a chance like that with a turbo.
04-11-2009, 08:25 AM
#104
you are so wrong about the STS setup. my friend is running twin turbos on his car. why put the turbo under the hood next to the headers? so it can heat the fuck up and heat soak the engine to death? honestly, EVERYONE thinks rear mounted turbos are useless, but they are SO wrong. my friend is putting down 650whp on low boost(5psi), and around 750 on high boost(15psi with meth). so please, rear mounted is the better way. there is NO turbo lag with the STS kit AT ALL. because when racing people rev the engine then drop the clutch, thus bringing the rev up to 2500 at launch, thus engages the turbos, so turbo lag? not at all. ive experience first hand.
also the STS kit for his car is putting down more power than the usual under the hood turbos
also the STS kit for his car is putting down more power than the usual under the hood turbos
also wondering why when you raise the boost +10psi/meth you can only push out 100 more hp?
04-11-2009, 12:39 PM
#105
Team Owner
you are so wrong about the STS setup. my friend is running twin turbos on his car. why put the turbo under the hood next to the headers? so it can heat the fuck up and heat soak the engine to death? honestly, EVERYONE thinks rear mounted turbos are useless, but they are SO wrong. my friend is putting down 650whp on low boost(5psi), and around 750 on high boost(15psi with meth). so please, rear mounted is the better way. there is NO turbo lag with the STS kit AT ALL. because when racing people rev the engine then drop the clutch, thus bringing the rev up to 2500 at launch, thus engages the turbos, so turbo lag? not at all. ive experience first hand.
also the STS kit for his car is putting down more power than the usual under the hood turbos
also the STS kit for his car is putting down more power than the usual under the hood turbos
The proper place for a turbo is next to the heads period, this is fact.
Heatsoak is not an issue, that is an opinion. Heat is your friend in a turbo application.
In theory you want the turbo coming right off the head so the exhaust gas is still expanding as it goes through the turbo. You want it as hot as possible going through the turbo, this is a good thing. There is much more energy up there to spool the turbo vs the rear of the car. Hot exhaust=good, cold exhaust=bad.
As I stated a large V8 can get away with it becuase of the shear volume of exhaust gas. Judging from the hp numbers at low boost this is a large V8 you're talking about. This is why half ass systems like STS will work ok. That same car would still spool much better with the turbo in the proper place.
Now take a small V6 like our TLs, run a moderate sized turbo placed near the rear seat and you're going to have lag up the ass. There's not enough volume of exhaust to overcome the flaws in the STS system.
Absolute power will be comparable to a properly setup system but lag will be miserable.
04-11-2009, 12:40 PM
#106
Team Owner
My guess is that it's running a smaller than optimal turbo so that it spools ok sitting back by the bumper.
04-11-2009, 12:45 PM
#107
I don't know how I missed this one.
The proper place for a turbo is next to the heads period, this is fact.
Heatsoak is not an issue, that is an opinion. Heat is your friend in a turbo application.
In theory you want the turbo coming right off the head so the exhaust gas is still expanding as it goes through the turbo. You want it as hot as possible going through the turbo, this is a good thing. There is much more energy up there to spool the turbo vs the rear of the car. Hot exhaust=good, cold exhaust=bad.
As I stated a large V8 can get away with it becuase of the shear volume of exhaust gas. Judging from the hp numbers at low boost this is a large V8 you're talking about. This is why half ass systems like STS will work ok. That same car would still spool much better with the turbo in the proper place.
Now take a small V6 like our TLs, run a moderate sized turbo placed near the rear seat and you're going to have lag up the ass. There's not enough volume of exhaust to overcome the flaws in the STS system.
Absolute power will be comparable to a properly setup system but lag will be miserable.
My guess is that it's running a smaller than optimal turbo so that it spools ok sitting back by the bumper.
The proper place for a turbo is next to the heads period, this is fact.
Heatsoak is not an issue, that is an opinion. Heat is your friend in a turbo application.
In theory you want the turbo coming right off the head so the exhaust gas is still expanding as it goes through the turbo. You want it as hot as possible going through the turbo, this is a good thing. There is much more energy up there to spool the turbo vs the rear of the car. Hot exhaust=good, cold exhaust=bad.
As I stated a large V8 can get away with it becuase of the shear volume of exhaust gas. Judging from the hp numbers at low boost this is a large V8 you're talking about. This is why half ass systems like STS will work ok. That same car would still spool much better with the turbo in the proper place.
Now take a small V6 like our TLs, run a moderate sized turbo placed near the rear seat and you're going to have lag up the ass. There's not enough volume of exhaust to overcome the flaws in the STS system.
Absolute power will be comparable to a properly setup system but lag will be miserable.
My guess is that it's running a smaller than optimal turbo so that it spools ok sitting back by the bumper.
04-11-2009, 12:48 PM
#108
I don't know how I missed this one.
The proper place for a turbo is next to the heads period, this is fact.
Heatsoak is not an issue, that is an opinion. Heat is your friend in a turbo application.
In theory you want the turbo coming right off the head so the exhaust gas is still expanding as it goes through the turbo. You want it as hot as possible going through the turbo, this is a good thing. There is much more energy up there to spool the turbo vs the rear of the car. Hot exhaust=good, cold exhaust=bad.
As I stated a large V8 can get away with it becuase of the shear volume of exhaust gas. Judging from the hp numbers at low boost this is a large V8 you're talking about. This is why half ass systems like STS will work ok. That same car would still spool much better with the turbo in the proper place.
Now take a small V6 like our TLs, run a moderate sized turbo placed near the rear seat and you're going to have lag up the ass. There's not enough volume of exhaust to overcome the flaws in the STS system.
Absolute power will be comparable to a properly setup system but lag will be miserable.
The proper place for a turbo is next to the heads period, this is fact.
Heatsoak is not an issue, that is an opinion. Heat is your friend in a turbo application.
In theory you want the turbo coming right off the head so the exhaust gas is still expanding as it goes through the turbo. You want it as hot as possible going through the turbo, this is a good thing. There is much more energy up there to spool the turbo vs the rear of the car. Hot exhaust=good, cold exhaust=bad.
As I stated a large V8 can get away with it becuase of the shear volume of exhaust gas. Judging from the hp numbers at low boost this is a large V8 you're talking about. This is why half ass systems like STS will work ok. That same car would still spool much better with the turbo in the proper place.
Now take a small V6 like our TLs, run a moderate sized turbo placed near the rear seat and you're going to have lag up the ass. There's not enough volume of exhaust to overcome the flaws in the STS system.
Absolute power will be comparable to a properly setup system but lag will be miserable.
once you learn how to drive the car within the powerband THERE IS NO MORE LAG
04-11-2009, 12:55 PM
#110
half assed system? flaws? the turbos are rated for 600hp each. can easily run 30lbs of boost, but the engine/tranny will be ripped apart. you really cant talk about things you have 0 experience with.
once you learn how to drive the car within the powerband THERE IS NO MORE LAG
once you learn how to drive the car within the powerband THERE IS NO MORE LAG
04-11-2009, 12:56 PM
#111
Team Owner
half assed system? flaws? the turbos are rated for 600hp each. can easily run 30lbs of boost, but the engine/tranny will be ripped apart. you really cant talk about things you have 0 experience with.
once you learn how to drive the car within the powerband THERE IS NO MORE LAG
once you learn how to drive the car within the powerband THERE IS NO MORE LAG
I don't need a 20yr old telling me I have no experience. I've been involved with some of the fastest turbo cars on the planet and I started when I was 17.
Seriously, how am I supposed to believe you when you say things like " the turbos are rated for 600hp each. can easily run 30lbs of boost, but the engine/tranny will be ripped apart." So your friend just likes unnecessarily huge turbos even though you can never use them to their potential? Ever hear of compressor surge when you go too big for the engine's airflow?
Either your friend is lying, you're lying, or you just don't know what you're talking about.
I love this one: "once you learn how to drive the car within the powerband THERE IS NO MORE LAG" No lag once you learn to drive the car in the power band, no shit. How laggy is it if you don't have it in it's powerband and you're just cruising around? And it comes back to my original statement that you can get away with this flawed system with a large V8 which you would've known if you took the time to read.
Lets see some specs on this car.
04-11-2009, 12:57 PM
#112
04-11-2009, 01:09 PM
#113
You didn't read anything I wrote. Go back, read and get back with me.
I don't need a 20yr old telling me I have no experience. I've been involved with some of the fastest turbo cars on the planet and I started when I was 17.
Seriously, how am I supposed to believe you when you say things like " the turbos are rated for 600hp each. can easily run 30lbs of boost, but the engine/tranny will be ripped apart." So your friend just likes unnecessarily huge turbos even though you can never use them to their potential? Ever hear of compressor surge when you go too big for the engine's airflow?
Either your friend is lying, you're lying, or you just don't know what you're talking about.
I love this one: "once you learn how to drive the car within the powerband THERE IS NO MORE LAG" No lag once you learn to drive the car in the power band, no shit. How laggy is it if you don't have it in it's powerband and you're just cruising around? And it comes back to my original statement that you can get away with this flawed system with a large V8 which you would've known if you took the time to read.
Lets see some specs on this car.
I don't need a 20yr old telling me I have no experience. I've been involved with some of the fastest turbo cars on the planet and I started when I was 17.
Seriously, how am I supposed to believe you when you say things like " the turbos are rated for 600hp each. can easily run 30lbs of boost, but the engine/tranny will be ripped apart." So your friend just likes unnecessarily huge turbos even though you can never use them to their potential? Ever hear of compressor surge when you go too big for the engine's airflow?
Either your friend is lying, you're lying, or you just don't know what you're talking about.
I love this one: "once you learn how to drive the car within the powerband THERE IS NO MORE LAG" No lag once you learn to drive the car in the power band, no shit. How laggy is it if you don't have it in it's powerband and you're just cruising around? And it comes back to my original statement that you can get away with this flawed system with a large V8 which you would've known if you took the time to read.
Lets see some specs on this car.
04-11-2009, 01:23 PM
#114
Team Owner
And by half assed I should've said sub optimal or something like that. The kit is good, but it just won't work as well on a small engine. This is part of what makes me jealous of the V8 guys, you have more room for error. It took me years to come up with a combo to make a turbo the size of mine spool well with only 256 cubes to play with. I've gone the route of a super laggy turbo and it's no fun to drive on the street. Just trying to save some of these guys the trouble.
04-11-2009, 02:10 PM
#115
Changing the fans out to front mounted pushers will allow enough room to mount a GT25 or GT28 right up to the head, a pair of these is optimal IMO, small enough to spool quickly but big enough to run out the entire RPM range making power. Also the shape of the intergrated exhaust mani makes it easy to bolt up.
04-11-2009, 03:45 PM
#116
all your going to be able to do is tune the a/f, thats it (no timing, vtec control etc,..). did you just assume that it was plug n play and be able to use all of its functions and capabilities? shoulda did your research before you bought it.
ive tried everything imaginable to get it to work for our cars, but no deal. like NVA said, its just not compatible with our type of crank sensors. i used it to run my original 3.0 for a year with just an a/f tune, but then again im only boosting 4-5 psi, so i can get away with it. i wouldnt take a chance like that with a turbo.
ive tried everything imaginable to get it to work for our cars, but no deal. like NVA said, its just not compatible with our type of crank sensors. i used it to run my original 3.0 for a year with just an a/f tune, but then again im only boosting 4-5 psi, so i can get away with it. i wouldnt take a chance like that with a turbo.
04-11-2009, 06:19 PM
#117
94 DC4 RS LSV/Turbo
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Changing the fans out to front mounted pushers will allow enough room to mount a GT25 or GT28 right up to the head, a pair of these is optimal IMO, small enough to spool quickly but big enough to run out the entire RPM range making power. Also the shape of the intergrated exhaust mani makes it easy to bolt up.
even a gt30 fits at the battery location... but she'll still blow up with a tl ecu
04-11-2009, 06:44 PM
#118
Team Owner
Don't forget that most companies will custom make a compressor housing for you. I had a TA-66 in a stock Grand National compressor housing. It would support 600hp yet it appeared completely stock on the outside. They can do the same for a tight engine compartment like the TL. You can get the large compressor and turbine wheels in a smaller housing at the expense of a couple hp.
04-11-2009, 07:46 PM
#120