davewhodavedunn

So I ran into a buddy who has a TL who is on here, and can not find him. He suggested a "THROTTLE BODY SPACER" I searched google etc...and I am new with the TL so I am wondering the following:

What does this throttle body spacer do?

What do I buy the part?

For a person that is not so much of a DIY, How is the ease of install?

What are the pros and cons to this?

o4Komodo

iTrader: (2)

TBS is apparently supposed to help more cool air enter the IM---or something? I forgot lol

Buy from XLR8 [azine vendor]

Super easy to install.

I haven't noticed any pros with my TBS on...
Well. I should say that I haven't noticed much of a difference [from touch or feel from driving] with the TBS On.

But apparently one of the cons of having a TBS is that if you have an AEM intake.. there is a chance the bracket will rip off.

FiveLiterCheater

Whoever came up with this thing must be laughing at everyone that bought it...I need to come up with a useless part and bank off some people.

davewhodavedunn

so it does nothing at all?

o4Komodo

iTrader: (2)

Pretty much. It just adds a little bling under the hood.

davewhodavedunn

people claim it lowers the air temp to the engine...alot of ppl on here have them...so that is why I am wondering if it is worth the $$$

davewhodavedunn

I am all for parts that are easy to install and some what cheap that add horsepower...any other suggestions?

Excelerate

iTrader: (1)

The throttle body spacer adds additional volume to the plenum so there is additional air available for induction and the thermal throttle body gaskets help reduce intake air temps. The setup was dynoed and gained about 5 whp.

BlacuraTL-S

iTrader: (3)

When i installed mine, my intake wouldnt fit back on so i trimed abt 1/2 to 3/4" of the tube and it fits perfectly

KaMLuNg

iTrader: (5)

i think the most important part is to reduce the heat soak from the engine to your intake...

myron

iTrader: (4)

???

is that with stock everything, no additional mods? How come no one else can notice this 5whp?

davewhodavedunn

so far everyone has said it does nothing....what other easy install parts give more horsepower and torque?

I hate cars

When the throttle is completely open, there's no such thing as "additional volume to the plenum". It makes no difference in that regard.

Dyno results are bogus too. The hood is open, heatsoaking is not an issue. There's already a fiber gasket between the TB and intake. The TB already stays cooler than the manifold. Air going past the TB is flowing so fast, there's no way it could pick up any appreciable heat anyway.

davewhodavedunn

So basically this part is a wasite of money and does nothing? lol yet some claim it does?

Excelerate

iTrader: (1)

Do you really think that 5 whp is really noticeable on a car that puts out 210-250whp stock? It's a 2% gain; of course every little bit helps and that's why we compound the mods to get larger increases over a range of parts but 2% is not going to be felt in the seat of your pants. The torque though is a bit larger in the gains and I've had many customers comment that they've felt the tq gain with the spacer and gaskets.

Then why not just put a tiny plenum on the TL and call it a day? Why did Acura put larger plenums on the newer TL's if they don't make a difference?

Why do people clamor for dyno graphs and then when dyno graphs are released everyone screams they are "bogus"? The dyno chart is below. There are gains. I've yet to see anyone do a dyno run with the hood closed so why would someone run over close the hood on the initial run and then run and over and open it up for the second dyno run? Are we that cynical that we can't trust dyno graphs from legitimate sources?



And just for additional evidence, here is one thread from another forum on the gains of the P2R TB spacer and gaskets.

__________________________________________________ _________

Figured I would make a post with mods and the amount of power they give since no one has really done it. This would help others in making their choices as they go along modifying their ride.

I can't test and dyno every part out there but I will use the most popular parts and report as I go along.

3 Dynos will be taken after each mod has been added and the same dyno(P2R dyno jet) will be used for all runs.

Temperature, mileage, oil(type and percentage) and octane will all be included.

All numbers will be 2007 SAE corrected and in WHP (wheel horse power)

There will be No cool down between runs.. (u can check the times on the dyno graph to be sure of that)

Please study the whole graph and not just peak power ...
I will edit the first post as i go along so that info doesn't get lost through many pages :thumb:

i'll sticky it ...
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Other mods that may affect results just so u know ...
18" Rays gram lights 57s (lighter than stock)
225/40 tires
tein flex suspension
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Mods: STOCK
Temp: 87-F
Numbers: 2007 SAE corrected
Car: 2007 FA5
Mileage: 2440
Oil: stock @ 50%
2 runs because the third was identical to the second

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Mods: P2R throttle body spacer + 2 P2R throttle body gaskets
Temp: 92-F
Numbers: 2007 SAE corrected
Car: 2007 FA5
Mileage: 2540
Oil: Stock @ 50%
the runs show the WHP and WTQ made compared to stock ...
Run 1 Stock VS Run 1 with the above mods


Run 2 Stock VS Run 2 with the above mods


3rd runs were left out because they were identical to the second :thumb:

As you can see the combination of the P2R throttle body spacer and gaskets make good power ... IMO it's enough for you to feel and it actually feels stronger than the numbers show ...

NB: the dyno shows peak power made but it actually makes more power in the mid-range/at points throughout the RPM range than the difference between stock + modded peak power!!!

The results are pretty consistent ... hardly any loss of power :thumb:
increase from bottom to top
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Mods: P2R throttle body spacer, 2 P2R throttle body gaskets + P2R IMG added
Temp: 94-F (2 degrees hotter than above)
Numbers: 2007 SAE corrected
Car: 2007 FA5
Mileage: 2598
Oil: Stock @ 50%
This graph shows Stock VS TB spacer + gaskets VS newly added P2R IMG as indicated on the graph :thumb:


some will say well the gasket only gives like 1whp and 3wtq?? just keep in mind that's at the peak ... look at the whole graph :thumb:

also watch how consistent the numbers are after back to back to back runs ... power hardly decreases if any which means the car is being kept cooler. As everyone knows the numbers tend to go lower as the runs increase :thumb:
again power from bottom to top ... and keeps consistency
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Mods: TB spacer, 2 TB gaskets, IMG gasket, Injen CAI added ...
Temp: 92-F but really humid
Numbers: 2007 SAE corrected
Car: 2007 FA5
Mileage: 2783
Oil: stock @ 40%
3 runs ...
1st run was right off a 50 mile drive (port of miami ---> P2R) and no real cool down ... no AFR on that run...
2 run was 10 mins after first run ... made a pinch more power
3 run was soon after
(check dyno sheet for run times)

__________________________________________________ ____________

These gains have been duplicated repeatedly by independent sources and fellow forum members so I beg to differ that there are no gains.

Excelerate

iTrader: (1)

Here's another dyno plot done recently:

This test was done on a 2007 Honda Civic Si.

This was a very simple test to show how P2R Thermal Intake Manifold Gaskets help keep your HP up by keeping the intake manifold temps cooler.

We did 3 back to back pulls without the P2R gasket. We only waited 30 seconds between pulls without turning off the car.


As you can see each pull the HP went down.

We then installed the P2R Power Rev Racing Thermal Intake Manifold Gasket and did the same thing again. 3 back to back pulls with 30 seconds in between and not turning off the car between pulls.


There was a 1 hp gain, and HP stayed consistent each pull and didn't go down as it did when the car didn't have the P2R gasket.

This test was done to show how P2R Thermal Gaskets can help make your HP numbers more consistent, which is very important in real life situations. Keeping intake manifold temps down is key when it comes to making HP.

Note: All pulls were done using a dyno feature which is called Snapshot. Snapshot is a feature which allows you to do dyno pulls without hooking up an RPM pickup on the car. This is why you will see that the rpm might be off by 100-200 rpms in some pulls. Because of this the TQ numbers can be off by 1-2 ft lb TQ, however; HP numbers are always correct.

Hope you all enjoy this test, as we did it for you

I hate cars

I agree that you can't feel 5hp. In my experience in a car of this weight, 15hp is the bare minimum you can feel if you're really trying.


For one, they have a larger engine. The runners are tuned to make power in a certain range. The plenum has to be large enough that all cylinders get even airflow. This is the main purpose of the plenum. Moving the TB out farther from the plenum is not the correct way to increase volume nor does increasing volume make any additional power once the plenum is large enough.



You said the TB will stay cooler with the gaskets and spacer. How do you expect to get any legit results with the hood up? On the flip side, with the hood down, the TB gets heatsoaked from all the heat trapped under the hood, regardless of whether it comes via the intake manifold or not.


1-5hp are within the noise floor of the dyno. IMO, you just can't put a lot of weight in it.

I'm not trying to be a jerk here but I would never pay the asking price for little to no gain.

phee

iTrader: (5)

gotta side with IHC. if the mod is more for temperature assistance than power, then the dyno should be done with the hood down on the baseline and the after

o4Komodo

iTrader: (2)

Yeah, a lot of members here have chopped off a portion of their intakes to make the TBS fit properly.

I'm one of the few who did not have to cut the intake.
For me, the intake and TBS fit together fine. It was a snug fit.
My intake and TBS have been on for more than a year and it's perfectly fine.

Excelerate

iTrader: (1)

Look at the K Series motors and even the J-series motors. They have made gains with additional plenum volume. There are plenty of dynos proving it. The 2nd gen CL/TL P2R plenums have made 5-8 whp and in some cases up to 13whp with a tune. In fact the J37 manifold has made gains on the J32 motors (it's due to plenum volume and bore size).

I'm not saying the TB spacer is the best way to increase plenum volume but it is a method to do so and it does work.

First, you have to repeat the dyno procedure in the same manner the initial test was done.

Secondly, you're arguing there are no gains with the TB spacer and gaskets. So if that was the case then the car should dyno the same with the hood open even after installing the TB spacer and gaskets but yet it made 5 whp and 8 ft lbs of tq. I mean if there is no appreciable difference in plenum volume or intake air temps then why the difference in hp and tq after the install of the parts?

Thirdly, I'm not saying the spacer makes the majority of the gains. I think the parts coupled together make the gains. I believe the reduction of intake air temps and the reduction of heat from metal to metal is a huge advantage. Not for nothing, P2R and Hondata use the same proprietary material to reduce intake air temps. Do you really think Hondata is selling "bogus" products too?

And that's fine. No one is demanding YOU buy it. That is why this is United States of America. Each of us can buy what we feel is good for our car. There are sundry dyno plots to prove the gains of these parts and they work. I even have it on my own car b/c it has been proven time and again and by ppl who have no association with P2R.

JwongTLS

Im not ganna lie, this was my first mod and I can tell u I DID feel a diffrence..a pretty big difference for just a space and gaskets..

5AT fellas are not ganna feel the difference unless they step on it.. of course the 6MT people would have to agree it put some power down.

CleanCL

iTrader: (4)

Even a reputable company like Hondata makes a thermal gasket for the K motor and goes into serious depth about temperature changes.
http://www.hondata.com/heatshieldgasket.html#Details

You can search the Hondata gasket and find PLENTY of third party dyno and information showing it's use. A company like them would not waste their time on a product that has no use, just like how they never released an ECU for the 3G TL. It was a waste of their time.

I thin Excelerate proved the point in the above posts. I Hate Cars is arguing the peak numbers saying they are normal variations on any dyno, but then how do you explain the huge leaps in mid range power, higher and flatter torque lines, etc? Being at a standstill on a dyno with the hood open (even with fans blowing) still has more heatsoak than if you were at highway speeds. So in my mind, any car is making more horsepower while in motion than on a dyno. But these are just tests.

Inaccurate

I stand by IHC.


From The Ultimate Cooling Mod (click here)


Our 3G TL has two powerful heat generators sitting smack in the middle of the engine compartment, the two primary cats (one per side). I feel that is what causes our 3G to be a "problem child" in regards to heat soaking. The 3G TL experiences heat soaking much more severely than other cars because of these two cats sitting inside the engine compartment. Most cars that I am familiar with have the cats under the floorpan where air draft swipes the heat out from under the moving vehicle. Not for us as I explained in the The Ultimate Cooling Mod (click here). The heat in the 3G's engine compartment just builds to a "critical mass". This is why you should dyno with the hood closed.

The underhood temps greatly outweigh the meager heat migrating from the engine block into the intake runners to the IM to the TB. With the hood open, you are creating a misleading scenario. With the hood open, you ARE testing how effective these heat isolating spacers are at preventing the heat from migrating from the engine block to the IM and TB. However, this is misleading. We drive with our hoods closed. With the hood closed, a much higher quantity of heat then becomes the issue. So much so, that the heat from the engine block pales in comparison.

Why worry about keeping an "x" amount of heat from migrating from the engine block to the IM and TB when the underhood temps are GREATLY hotter than that "x" amount. The underhood temps will dump huge amounts of heat into the IM and TB, and those spacers will have nil mitigation effect of this fact.

The 3G TL suffers from excessive heat build-up under the hood, and thermoblocking spacers do not address this true problem. Test with the hood CLOSED and make a few WOT pulls to build-up the underhood temps, let it idle for 15 minutes so that heat can soak the engine compartment, then commence your dyno runs without ever opening the hood, then show us THOSE dyno graphs.

CleanCL

iTrader: (4)

Did he not post a graph up above of someone who made 3 pulls back to back with no cool down? Oh, but he didn't have the hood closed. OK, but the car is sitting still in a room, not cruising at highway speeds with air moving around the bay.

But then again, you are all ASSUMING no one had their hood closed, but you do not know that for sure. I went to one dyno once, where the guy hooked up the sensors, then gently lowered the hood, but never fully closed it. Then he opened the hood and directed a fan right into my engine bay... the numbers were only different in the tenths, not even whole numbers. So it maybe pulled something like 224.1 and then 224.6.

Inaccurate

If I drove my car only one or two city blocks, what you say would apply. Our 3G TL is special, with special problems. The cats in the engine bay. Heat soak the car first like we do in real life when we drive in summer weather. Are you unaware of these threads below?

Are these Acurazine members crazy?
Please HELP !!...Car sluggish or Flies(click here)

Insulating your CAI? (click here)
TB Coolant Bypass Mod...anyone do this? (click here)
109 octane unleaded = 5mpg increase...(click here)
Engine Heat-Soaking issue (click here)
The Ultimate Cooling Mod (click here)

The issue is not if the hood is up or down. The issue is complete heat soaking in summer weather. And, these spacers will not alleviate that issue. The Ultimate Cooling Mod will !

davewhodavedunn

so what are the draw back and cons to this throttle body spacer?

o4Komodo

iTrader: (2)

Fitment issues is the only thing to worry about--so I believe.

Opel

thats not quiet true...
how much air do u think you get blowing around the bay at highway speeds? not what you think,. its nowhere comparable with the huge fans blowing on top of ur motor while the hood is up... how i know this? after a highway pull, i couldn't even rest my hand on top of the intake manifold for a fucking second.... but after a dyno pull, i could rest my face on top of the IM... dont ever compare steet/highway runs with a dyno run...they're not the same

after a dyno pull, u still have the fans running....there's almost ZERO heatsoaking...i dont care how hot it is outside or how much humid it is....if u know what heatsoaking is and how it works, you would understand this.....it happens after u stop and there's pretty much no air moving through the engine bay that works as a heat exhanger for the heat being released from the motor.
this isn't the case on a dyno...after the run, the car sits there and idles, while the fans are still blowing on top of the motor, reducing that stored heat in the motor from erupting all over the place and heating up the rest of the crap...so ur next run starts off cool also.... and FYI, they shouldn't have fans blowing right from the get go....u dont get that kinda wind blowing till u reach about 40-50 mph anyway...so they should start the fans after that speed, for one, and 2nd, if they want the tests to be as close to street experience as possible....its fine with me, have the fans blowing in front of the car, but with the hood closed.

you say Exel proved the points......first people claime gains, then they down to, "not it just maintains same power numbers, from run to run" ...... well which is it???? because people that are interested in these kinds of things, wanna know "GAINS" they dont care much about the fact that, if they push their car right now, and they do it again 5-10 mins later, it will feel the same, because some heatsoaking was reduced.... btw, we all know that, these plastic gaskets slow down/reduce heat transfer, and thats understandable... but dont come out and claim such fucking gains.... bcs you know smth...i logged my IAT, and after the gaskets...it still reads the SAME.... after you stop and idle, those gaskets aren't doing a freaking thing for you...heat isn't only transferedr from metal to metal, its transfered through the ambient also...and the TL's engine bay is a goddamn OVEN.... when ur sitting there idling, and those FANS start blowing, drawing heat from the radiator, blasting it through the entire engine, along with ur nice CATs that sit in the engine bay...my friend, ur gaskets aint doing shit.....ur INTAKE MANIFOLD IS BEING HEATED UP FROM ENGINE BAY TEMPS, along with the rest of the intake components, and not from the Heads.

KaMLuNg

iTrader: (5)

sorry i can't remember but do you also have the spacer with your insulated CAI? i know i have asked you in your thread in the past about your insulated CAI and you have said that it is holding up well and has helped, but i can't remember if you also have the TBS

Inaccurate

I have the Outlaw Engineering Thermoblock Spacer (link), which is between the intake runners and the IM. I have no TB spacer.

My cooling mods are -

Removed plastic panels (top side, under side, under trans, fiber mat from backside of hood).
Outlaw Engineering Thermoblock Spacer (link)
Custom CAI Insulation (link).
Throttle Body Coolant Bypass (link).
The Ultimate Cooling Mod (link)

chill_dog

Those of us who drive in traffic do. Push hard/rev for a bit, sit at light or slow down for traffic, push hard/rev on green or when you've manuevered through the traffic...repeat numerous times. I go through that twice a day four days a week. Actually, I don't know anyone who pushes their car once and then parks it.

Inaccurate

And to add to what Opel said...

There is no airflow thru the upper half of the engine compartment at any time. Not even at highway speeds. The air in the whole upper half of the engine compartment just sits there and sits there, getting hotter and getting hotter. Stagnant, no meaningful air circulation. Even at highway speeds.

Why? Because there is no exit for the airflow in the upper half of the engine compartment and no meaningful air circulation in the upper half of the engine compartment. In order to have air to flow, the air needs a route/path and an exit. The ONLY exit in the engine bay is out thru the bottom of the engine bay. There is your airflow path. Through the radiator and heading out of the engine compartment thru the only exits available, in the bottom of the engine bay. See, nothing to flush that stagnant heated air in the upper half. Oh sure, the fans and ram air cause a tiny amount of circulation in the upper half.... but the fans and ram air do *not* add any *meaningful* air circulation to evacuate the heat produced by those cats. Why? No exit and heat rises. One word, *oven*. [Billy Mays] And that my friends is the power of The Ultimate Cooling Mod! [/Billy Mays]. Call the UCM mod haphazard, call the UCM mod ugly, but you can't call the UCM mod ineffective. To this day, two weeks since having the UCM, it is still eerie to hear silence, of *no* fans running, as I sit at a red light in 100 degree weather.

Kawika

iTrader: (6)

This is definitely a great thread. I'm glad it was brought up because I'm considering doing this mod and everyone's opinions/insights are greatly appreciated

Excelerate

iTrader: (1)

If you are capable of reading I made two posts with dyno graphs: one showing the gains of the TB spacer and two thermal TB gaskets and the other showing how the thermal IMG helps maintain power.

I really don't know what airflow has to do with this argument; the gaskets do their job. Regardless of the temperature in the TL engine bay the gaskets help reduce in the intake air temps. The dynos are above. If you don't feel the evidence is sufficient then don't buy it but don't pretend to know more than companies like Hondata and P2R.

Just for reference here's some info from Hondata also:

Hondata has developed a special high temperature insulating gasket which replaces the stock intake gasket. This and bypassing several heat sources significantly reduces the transfer of heat from the head to the intake and incoming air giving you up to 5% more power.

Turbocharged cars often use an aluminum intercooler to cool the air compressed by the turbo. The intake manifold is also made of aluminum but because it is heated by the head from combustion and coolant, works in reverse to an intercooler by heating the intake air by as much as 50° C.

Fact: For every 3.3 °C (5° F) rise in intake temperature, air density drops 1%. The hotter the air, the less fuel the computer injects to compensate for reduced oxygen. HondaLogger datalogging software has enabled us to measure intake air temperature under varied driving conditions.

Around town, testing has shown an average drop of around 10 degrees C which is good for around 3 percent power increase. Remember though that 3 percent power increase is difficult to feel. You'd feel a greater change in performance getting rid of that passenger. In certain conditions a 30° C drop has been measured.

The Honda manifold is heated in up to 5 places. From the head, the interior heating takeoff hose, the cold idle valve, the idle control valve and the throttle body heater. The Heatshield gasket kit contains an insulating gasket, and installation instructions. A race version only version with the thermostat bypass blocked is also available.



The graph above shows the results of installing the Heatshield gasket and bypassing the throttle body heating and idle control valve heating. If you examine a Type R intake manifold you will find that most sources of water heating are removed. Further temperature drops are possible when in addition the interior heating hose is blocked. What the graph shows, is that as you open the throttle, the intake temperature drops slowly as it cools the intake. When you descend a hill with the throttle closed or drive around town on a light throttle the temperature climbs quickly. It takes a good 15-20 seconds for the temperature to drop again when you open the throttle. So if you start your 1/4 mile drag with a hot intake manifold - you are only starting to develop maximum power near the end of the run when the intake has been cooled. The Heatshield gasket kit gives you 4-5% more power immediately by lowering the intake temperature.

Inaccurate

First and foremost, I do believe that these spacers, et.al., might work on *other* vehicles. I even have a thermospacer (Outlaw). I purchased the spacer before I realized the true problem of the 3G TL. There is logic and science behind the spacers. But, NOT on the 3G TL.


Is this a 3G TL? Our 3G TL is special, with special problems. The cats are in the engine bay. The 3G TL experiences heat soaking much more severely than other cars because of these two cats sitting inside the engine compartment.

This is not a graph of the 3G TL! If so, it sure was not heatsoaked! Heatsoak the car (and make sure it is a 3G TL) first like we do in real life when we drive in summer weather.

Your posted graph states "ambient 14 degrees C". 14C is *not* summer for most of us.

14 degree Celsius = 57.2 degree Fahrenheit

How can you say "Regardless of the temperature in the TL engine bay"? Have you been reading my post?

Why worry about keeping an "x" amount of heat from migrating from the engine block to the IM and TB when the underhood temps are GREATLY hotter than that "x" amount. The underhood temps will dump huge amounts of heat into the IM and TB, and those spacers will have nil effect. Why? These spacers prevent heat from migrating from the engine block, to the intake runners, and into the manifold. The premise here is that the heat source is the engine block. But, the real heat source for the 3G TL is the high ambient temps under the hood (from those hot primary cats). Thus, the spacers are ineffective because they are attacking the wrong problem.

I do believe that these spacers, et.al., might work on *other* vehicles. There is logic and science behind the spacers. But, NOT on the 3G TL.

Hondata does not know the 3G TL too well. Our 3G TL is special, with special problems. The cats are in the engine bay. That is our *overriding* heat source...... not "the transfer of heat from the head to the intake".

These spacers prevent heat from migrating from the engine block, to the intake runners, and into the manifold. The premise here is that the heat source is the engine block. But, the real heat source for the 3G TL is the high ambient temps under the hood (from those hot primary cats). Thus, the spacers are ineffective because they are attacking the wrong problem.

Turbocharged cars often use an aluminum intercooler to cool the air compressed by the turbo. The *3G TL* intake manifold is also made of aluminum but because it is heated by hot air from *the underhood cats with no meaningful airflow*, works in reverse to an intercooler by taking the *much higher underhood temps* surrounding the IM and TB and heating up the IM and TB. How are spacers going to help this issue? Perhaps if the IM and TB were wrapped entirely with the thermo-insulting material.

Is this a 3G TL? Our 3G TL is special, with special problems. The cats are in the engine bay. The 3G TL experiences heat soaking much more severely than other cars because of these two cats sitting inside the engine compartment.

"In certain conditions"... please define the conditions. Is this a 3G TL? What was the weather temperature? How long had the vehicle been driven to reach full heatsoak?

How familiar are you with our TL? Our 3G TL is special, with special problems. The cats are in the engine bay. That is our *overriding* heat source. You are unaware of this according to your listing. All of the heat sources cumulatively that you listed *pale* in comparison to the quantity of heat absorbed by the IM and TB from the high underhood temps of the 3G TL.

Inaccurate

Excelerate is a great Acurazine vendor. He supports our forum and is an active member of the forum offering help to those in need. I recently ordered an XLR8 j-pipe from him and I received excellent service. I call him during my j-pipe install because I had a question. He was there to take the call and was happy to answer my question. As such, I wish to offer a concession.

The spacers do work in minimizing the heat transfer from the engine to the IM and to the TB (as claimed). I do highly recommend these spacers if you are having your TL dyno’ed in the normal manner (engine bay not heatsoaked, shop fans blowing, hood up). In this application, these spacers will keep the intake cooler, which should produce more power.

Excelerate

iTrader: (1)

Inaccurate as I wrote, the first dyno plot was from a TL. So yes it applies to the 3rd gen TL.

There have also been tests done where the thermal IMG was placed in the oven at 450 degrees and the P2R gasket was significantly cooler even after remaining in the oven for a prolonged period of time. I have to find the exact temp (I have a record of it somewhere).

Excelerate

iTrader: (1)

Thank you for the kind words; we appreciate your business and that of all of Acurazine.

I'm not saying this is the biggest power maker or that the P2R spacer alone makes that much power. I think the combination of the spacer and thermal gaskets on both sides of the spacer does help reduce intake air temps and there is some gain. 5 hp isn't a lot but for $100 it's not bad. I don't think you're going to win any races with adding the P2R TB spacer and gaskets but every little bit helps. Any way you can reduce intake air temps (even including your mods listed above) all help; the ultimate goal is to keep the intake air temps down so the ECU can make adjustments.

Anyways, I have to get back to work. Thanks.

I hate cars

You know that's completely impossible, right?

Innaccurate- I may try some header wrap on the cats and J-pipe and see what that gets me. The underhood temps of the TL feel hotter than my turbo car.

We've also got to look at cylinder head temps. There is usually coolant running through the head near intake ports. I can't say for sure if this is the case with the TL but it's likely the cylinder head temps at the intake manifold mounting point are not much higher if any than 200 F.

Excelerate

iTrader: (1)

What is impossible? For the gasket to be cooler than the temperature surrounding it? I'll have to look at the test again but I believe that was the result.

The only thing I can think is that through convective heat transfer an object must be the same temperature as something it's touching or surrounding; again I'd have to look into my science book to verify.

I'll know more tomorrow.