Discussing power with an american muscle addict and he mentioned this universal kit available from a co by the name of STS... Google STS Turbo for nore info and videos


Here is the basics... It runs a remote mounted turbo in the rear of the car... Advertised gains at 8psi were 100hp...

With a custom tune using greddy emanage it is quite possible to safely run this kit

Price very reasonable (compared to comptech s/c)

Question I have what is the compression ratio of the tl? 11:1?



Any of you guys have any imput on this?

 

I know this has been discussed before. I think the consensus was a huge amount of turbo lag... In addition, the turbo was located way too close to the ground, so it was subject to all the road grime and what not.

 

tuning with the Emanage system will bring reliability issues. trust me on that. Emanage Ultimate is the better option with a bigger tuning parameter, but still is questionable.

Turbo systems can be easily adapted to ANY car, the real challenge comes when u're talking about engine management.

Being able to tune things precisely is the key to reliability of the stock motor, esp with the high CR of 11:1.

 

My friend that is a STS dealer and has a turbo kit on his 04 dodge ram with the 5.7 hemi has no probs with it plus i know many others from when i used to have my old ram

 

problem is the headers, the headers are cast on to the motor and to get a system where a turbo would word properly, you would need to really custom fab some new down-pipes to get to the turbo, and putting it at the end of the exhaust system, it would not make any power at all.

 

I'm really lost as to why everyone thinks that the remote mount won't make power. STS has proven time and again that it does work. The only problem with the TL would be tuning. I'd love to see 100 HP gain with 8 psi, and I think it would be doable, but so far, there has been limited tuning abilities. I think one guy has the emanage, can't remember if it was the blue or ultimate though. Only one allowed ignition timing changes as well as fuel, the other only fuel changes.

 

Dude, you've been here long enough to know that this was hashed over a while ago!

The consensus is ALWAYS:

pretty much anyone can design and build a turbo for a 3G. But what about the tuning???

We can't even get a frigging tune for a 4lb supercharger boost. Who the hell is going to do it for something like a turbo?

 

https://acurazine.com/forums/showthr...niversal+turbo

 

True, tuning would be the issue, none of the piping should be that complicated. the thread KN_TL pulled up is really informative, and shows that a FMIC may be necessary to cool down the air.

It was lookinco who put together a 3.5 motor (MDX block, ClS pistons and other parts) and he used the Greddy Emanage Ultimate.

 

Yeah, I was able to tune the TL with the E-manage Ultimate, but I am looking into the AEM F/IC right now. It has the ability to tune within the Close loop mode.

The problem I found with the stock TL ECU is that it stays in close loop mode for too long. When boost is building and with the ECU still staying in close loop, it controls the fuel trim so that the A/F stays around 14.7, and that's way too lean for boost.

 

ok before I made this thread I did search the terms sts turbo which returned only search results for "turbo"... then I searched squires... and only a thread featuring a meet acuratein went to where there was a z who had it installed... so kjelly... wth dude

as far as the tuning... the aem f/ic has not been tested on the tl so can't really say much about it... a boomslang harness can be made but there is no word as to what tuning parameters will be available...

this setup does not require the headers to be altered... the turbo will run in the rear just before the mufflers with dual tubing going back to the motor... the amount of alterations needed will equal to creating a custom jpipe...

from what I've been looking at, I really can't see why this can't be possible... and for the price they are offering is not a bad deal at all... I just wanted to force the force induction lmfao

 

I think the STS is totally doable on the TL, provided that you can find a space under the car to fit the turbo. I looked at it before and there is a pretty big space under the TL if you remove the 3rd muffler. However, you probably wouldn't be able to lower the car too much.

I just received the AEM F/IC and will be the first to try it out on the TL. I will update you guys as soon as I get more info. Now I am just waiting to get my engine from the machine shop.

 

oh can't wait for your update

 

^honestly, i dont think the AEM F/IC will give u any more control over the Ultimate. The only way i know on how to change when you can switch off closed loop at an earlier onset or lower load is by messing with the stock calibration itself on the ecu (Hondata reflashing it to do so). Piggybacks are only able to alter once its out of closed loop, as you already know.

The piggyback will attempt to change the signal during closed loop, the ecu will fight its signal away and bring it back to stock.

But yes, keep us updated!!

 

Seems like others are having good result with tuning within the close loop mode. The E-manage Ultimate has more tuning options, but for the TL, most of them are useless. We mainly just need to add more fuel and retard the timing. The AEM F/IC tune the close loop mode by adjusting the feedback from the O2 sensors. Normal in close loop mode the O2 sensor would tell the ECU if the engine is running lean or rich and thus the ECU would adjust the fuel trim so the AF stays around 14.7. With the AEM F/IC, you are able to skew the feedback from the O2 sensors so that the long term and short term fuel trim stays close to zero. This way you can add or subtract fuel without having to worry about the ECU reversing the changes you made.

In the E-manage case, you cannot adjust the O2 feedback. So when you try to add or subtract fuel, the O2 sensors would tell the ECU that it's running too rich or lean, and the ECU would readjust to make the AF go back to 14.7.

Hopefully it will work the way it's supposed to!

 

hot stuff... I was going to order the aem f/ic but didn't under the advice of boomslang.us sales who advised me that the use of the f/ic had not yet been tested with the v6 honda motor and that they wouldn't know what would work or what wouldn't... but from my research the 4bangers have nothing but love for it... I've seen some guys really produce some solid gains... not to mention how user friendly the software is... defintiley interested in ur next plans

as for the sts setup... I brought it up simply because I thought it was one crazy ass way of going turbo... I had no idea you could run the turbo way back connected with the muffler and gain upwards of 60hp

 

you do not need a muffler with the STS kit.

the turbo acts at a muffler

 

subscribed

 

yea you are right... but I was looking into this even more... and it would benefit more to have the turbo mounted where the 3rd cat is located... ground clearance is a real problem

 

The rear mounted turbo can make good power. The problem is lag. Most cars that use these are V8s with a moderately small turbo. Put this thing on our little V6 and see the meaning of turbo lag. You can do it this way but it's far from ideal. There is a reason why OEM turbo setups are placed as close to the engine as possible. The other choice is to use a smaller turbo.

 

subscribed. hope theres a way

 

yeah...there would be lag with the turbo all the way back. But imagine doing this along with the supercharger, now there won't be anymore lag issues....haha.....but have fun trying to tune it.

All joking aside, I want to see someone try to do this project to see how much gain it would have on the TL. Anyone?

 

^ s/c & turbo, you are mental (I like lol)

 

35 shot of nitrous on a hobbs switch to spool the turbo. Did it when I had a stock motor with a T-66 turbo. Nitrous shuts off when you hit a preset boost level. 10lb bottle lasts months.

 

yea... good shit, I mean I've seen the s/c tubo hybrid before but never would of thought of it on a tl

 

hmm it would be a pretty awesome project to try.....tuning on the other hand would SUCK...

if i could get a legit R&D team or even get a chance to bring the car over to Honda Racing team to get it looked at, i'd most definitely consider doing something like this...

god just thinking about the spool on the s/c and then the blow off on the turbo is making me get goosebumps

 

yeah my buddy was trying to tell me it is possible to do a custom set up from him, not a vendor or what ever STS is doing.
i knew if it was possible, someone on this site would of done it by now, i cant wait to see some responses on how this works

 

Most people aren't concerned with lag anymore.

DSMers were the guys that always said a T3/T4 was too big for a 2.0L motor and stuck with crap 16 and 18Gs. Meanwhile that Honda guys were cutting their ass with 1.8L and big T3/T4s and 60-1s.

Who cares if you don't get full boost until 4000 or 5000 rpms when you have an extra 2000 rpms to go.

 

that's actually a pretty good point. But the problem still lies in the ECU tuning

 

That would be a blast to drive. Lets totally screw up the entire power curve to get a little peak power right before it's time to shift. The Honda guys are known for being idiots when it comes to turbo sizing. Running a 60-1 in today's time reinforces it. That was old news in '98 with the Turbo Buick crowd. The DSM crowd was always more focused on streetability and getting off the line. You can't compare some of the faster street legal DSMs to the turbocharged Hondas.

And please, most people aren't concerned about lag? Are you for real? It's not just about what rpm it spools at, there's transient response. You don't just rev to 5K and the boost instanly appears. It would be no fun to drive on the street.

 

i cant believe it seriously took this long for someone to bring up the STS turbo...

 

didn't check my gmail for a couple days but I did today so here is what I received from one of the guys at sts

Universal Stage I - $1995 MSRP
Turbo (application specific)
Wastegate, 38mm
Turbo Flange Kit
Bolt Kit
Brass Kit
Oil Pump
Oil Check Valve
Instruction Manual

Universal Stage II - $2495 MSRP
Turbo (application specific)
Wastegate, 38mm
Wastegate Pipe
Wiring Harness
Air Filter
Dry-charger
Hose Kit
Silicone Kit
Clamp Kit
Turbo Flange Kit
Bolt Kit
Brass Kit
Oil Pump
Oil Check Valve
Instruction Manual

Universal Stage III - $2995 MSRP
Turbo (application specific)
Wastegate, 38mm
Wastegate Pipe
Wiring Harness
Silicone Kit
Air Filter
Dry-charger
Hose Kit
Clamp Kit
Turbo Flange Kit
Bolt Kit
Brass Kit
Oil Pump
Oil Check Valve
Pipe Kit
PCV System
Pressure Switch
Instruction Manual

 

didn't check my gmail for a couple days but I did today so here is what I received from one of the guys at sts


Universal Stage I - $1995 MSRP
Turbo (application specific)
Wastegate, 38mm
Turbo Flange Kit
Bolt Kit
Brass Kit
Oil Pump
Oil Check Valve
Instruction Manual


Universal Stage II - $2495 MSRP
Turbo (application specific)
Wastegate, 38mm
Wastegate Pipe
Wiring Harness
Air Filter
Dry-charger
Hose Kit
Silicone Kit
Clamp Kit
Turbo Flange Kit
Bolt Kit
Brass Kit
Oil Pump
Oil Check Valve
Instruction Manual


Universal Stage III - $2995 MSRP
Turbo (application specific)
Wastegate, 38mm
Wastegate Pipe
Wiring Harness
Silicone Kit
Air Filter
Dry-charger
Hose Kit
Clamp Kit
Turbo Flange Kit
Bolt Kit
Brass Kit
Oil Pump
Oil Check Valve
Pipe Kit
PCV System
Pressure Switch
Instruction Manual

 

nice kits.

 

I've already installed a Turbo AND tuned it. I wasn't abel to use the eManage stuff but rather had to go to an application designed for the Suburu Sti and then had to re-write a bit of the code. I'm reading about 361HP right now but think there is still an issue. It's up on the Mustang Dyno as I type this from my laptop with EDVO. The guys at this shop are AMAZING and are going through it trying to get more HP out of it... Wish me luck guys!

 

let us know how it goes!

 

good shit

 

....CRAP! Somethings not right. It's making an odd sound and the HP is back down to 313.5. May be time for more research...The guys here say they don't have any more time for it tonight. Maybe they can get back to it over the weekend. Until then I guess I'll just drive the SL55 I bought last weekend

 

^sounds like a motor going south. odds sounds + loss of power, better get compression test and leakdown if possible.

probably bad choice of engine management.....

 

this is pretty much what ANY generic turbo system is comprised of. Nothing impressed me from this, nothing TL specific either. Have fun fabrication your own IC piping or anything for that matter to be TL-specific.

What turbo brand are they using? If its not garrett, precision, borg warner (Lol), mitsubishi or big name, it'll suck. Turbonetics is shit btw. Even the brands of parts are not named, hinting use of generic pieces.

If anyone seriously wants a turbo system......research and build your own with the help of a GOOD fabricator and Honda tuner. But in reality, dont expect anyone to make a true bolt-on system, esp when engine management is still a huge issue. Its the most important piece.