SSM6MTNAVI

Well, ladies and gents like the title says I got my 04 TL dynoed yesterday at BTF Racing in Rochester, NY. Shop belongs to a buddy's friend who specializes in, ummm scratch that, can pretty much do anything to a car. He's got a twin turboed Camaro he's working on that did 1008whp before any tuning at 13psi. Its insane. He was talkin to me about putting a Garrett GT 35R turbo in the back of the car for an additional 125whp. I'm pretty sure he can do it coz the guy has a plethora of knowledge. But I digest.

Anyhoo I just wanted to find out how much money I've wasted modding the car for the almost 3 yrs I've had it.

Now granted I don't post on here much this is what the car has performance wise. AEM CAI, mid muffler + resonator delete with 2 Magnaflow mufflers in the back, UR underdrive pulley and Thermoblock spacers.

Baseline run figures were as follows:




Max Hp 217.5 @ 6700rpms
Max Tq 190.7 @5200rpms

Unfortunately, there are no before dynos. But theres a bunch of threads on here with stock dyno pulls. Rick did 3 pulls with the 2nd and 3rd pull showing abt 216.3 and 216.8 respectively. He attributed this decrease to the heatsoak since it was a hot 85 degree day.

Now before you all go saying those numbers are low be informed that this was on a land and sea Dynomite Dyno and the numbers will read more realistic (lower that a Dynojet). A Mustang or Dynojet would prolly read 15-20% higher which puts me @ close to 235-245whp conservatively which I'm happy about.

I'll have a few vids of the runs up maybe today or tomorrow once my buddy Tom gets em to me. The car sounded fawkin awesome. Just wanted to share the #'s. Comments, whether educational, constructive or destructive are welcome.

Irregardless, I love my TL.

722ish

What gear were you in? The gear ratio should be 1:1 or as close as possible. I would think in the TL that would be 5th or 4th as it could have double overdrives.

This of course if its a 6 speed.

I think the load applied is the issue in power production with most dynos.

Seems like you put down good numbers anyhow. take care
Mark

neuronbob

Actually, the Mustang will also read lower than the Dynojet based on my experience. I have learned from the experience with my RL that dynos are best used pre- and post- modification so one can get an idea of how their car did. But you probably already know that.

Even so, I don't think you did badly at all. 3Putt did his dyno runs (sticky at the top of this forum) on Dynojets and got about 15 HP higher than your numbers.

Kennedy

iTrader: (2)

Those rear turbokits are a neat idea, not as effecient but seem to do OK... That's an interesting approach to the lack of underhood space.

3rdGenHybrid

6spd tl's i believe are closest to 1:1 in fourth...not positive...the auto's are 3rd gear....you can tell when the ratio is 1:1 when ur rpm moves @ the same speed as your speedo...

HQTL6SPD

hey SSM6MTNAVI, have you asked your friend about making a TL rwd or awd? That would be sick if he did that!

SSM6MTNAVI

All the runs were done in 3rd gear. I'm by no means a gear ratio expert but wud this make it show lower or higher numbers? I was under the impression 3rd is the TLs strongest........

SSM6MTNAVI

Hey Bob, I was reading your threads over on the RL forums about you dynoing your car. But I get your point. Dynos are expensive and I've been doing these mods over the past yr. It prolly wouldn't have been cheap to do dynos after every mod.

Before the runs Rick asked me what they do stock and I told him 258 and he said on his dyno he'd expect to see abt 190 to the wheels. 3Putt had intake and exhaust IIRC and I have the pulley and spacers in addition to that. Its a good comparison however.

SSM6MTNAVI

Nah, didn't ask him. Think it would cost too much to be actually worth it. I'll run it by him next time we go to the shop. He's gonna be tuning that TT Camaro soon. Its a monster.

ndabunka

Problem with the rear turbo is the same as for the regular turbo... there is ABSOLUTELY NO tuning available for the ECM that controls these cars. Next time you talk to him, ask him what he thinks the rear turbo would do with no tuning what-so-ever. And eating while posting can be a difficult thing as you found out, it can be hard to "digest". If I were to digress, I might go off on a tangent...

722ish

No, this isnt true. The RPM and speed depend on the final drive ratio AND the wheel/tire size. I assure you that the RPM in my supra NEVER matches the speedo. In fact, in some cars the 1:1 ratio never occurs.

722ish

IF the gear ratio is shorter that 1:1 it will negatively affect your HP numbers, and potentially can skew the results in TQ and HP, because of the limted time in load, and the gear multiplication.

I suppose unless you are REALLY interested in the numbers you should be indifferent. Just make sure you use the same proceedure each time, and use the same dyno. Also make sure the weather is similar, or the baro/temp can change things.

The part that sucks for some cars is the inability to use the 1:1 so it isnt necc.

My supra with the raised rev limit will knock on 200mph in 5th gear. It is nearly impossible to find a local dyno that will permit this "speed" So i am relegated to using a shorter (numerically larger) gear!

Hopefully this helps some people!

take care
Mark

3rdGenHybrid

no one ever said every car was a 1:1 ratio....Neither the TL's(AT/MT) have a 1:1 ratio, and when your RPM (engine speed) matches your Speedo (output shaft speed) what ratio do you have??? changing your final drive and wheel size does affect your ratio, and accuracy of your speedo...but you can alway change the calibration of the ecu to the size tire you have...and gear ratio...gettin as close to 1:1 ratio is important so you can get an accurate horse power and torque reading....if you dynoed your car in first gear(gear reduction) it'd probably read higher...i wouldn't know for sure because i'd never dyno'd a car in any gear but the one that was closest to 1:1...

3rdGenHybrid

not gonna use the turbo 400 trans in your supra? everyone i know who's got a supra junked the stock trans for the turbo400 trans...but they all had 900+ horses....(i think its turbo400 trans...im not a supra freak)

Allout

Good info. I always wondered what the relationship was. I agree - most places will use a lower gear to avoid the high wheel speed.

722ish

Ah yes, of course. I see what you mean now. Yes, the output shaft speed IS a direct indication of the 1:1 gear... however what youve left out is tire sizing and the "Axle ratio". You are correct in the input shaft matching the output shaft speed... Lets take my supra for instance. Even in 5th, which in either the JDM or USDM cars(not sure which offhand) has either a v160 or v161. The gear ratios are different in the rearend, AND the transmission. For this reason, ill assume one is the description of the setup i remember the most, and for this ill assume it is the USDM one. That explanation is only for the people that will call me out on it if i am incorrect. In 5th gear i am 1:1 in that car. It has a 3.13 rear gear. Even in the 1:1 5th gear, the absolute zero WOULD not be the combination of the tire size/rearend. There is still some gear reduction going on based on the combination.


Also, dynoing in a shorter gear acts as a hinderance to power production. This is exceptionally visible in bigger high rpm turbo cars. My car without a doubt will make more power in 6th gear than any other. It will also produce a good amount more torque. An overdrive will almost act as a multiplier. The longer the gear, the longer the motor is under load, the more power you make. The only time that gears can do anything to power is while driving. The applied torque of the gearing in lower (1, 2nd) will seem to have a substantially greater feeling, esp. in an FWD car.

Take care
Mark

722ish

You are absolutely correct. The TH400 is very popular. My problem with it is converters, streetability, and overall driveability. I want, and will have an 850hp car, however i dont want ANYONE to notice .

I am interested in keeping stock driveability and even with 1000cc injectors, i still manage a damn good in sight of the modification 30mpgs!

People are now stepping up to the 4l80e. It is a newer 4 speed auto trans, also a gm with an overdrive and electronic control as evidenced by the E designation in the code. This trans for whatever reason is capable of the higher RPM and is more streetable, PLUS allows for steeper rear gears due to the 4th gear. It seems as though they will hold up better than the 400s, no matter how good the 400 is for straight STRIP use.

I have yet to see people break 6speed gearboxes. They are Getrag units, and have some cool trickery. Triple cone 1st and 2nd gear synchros, and positively burly internals. Main, and only weakpoint I have found in them so far is how finicky they can be. They only like specific gear oils, and can have problems when not using some that are friendly! There are serious cars running factory transmissions, deep into the 8's now, WITH the factory 3.13 rear gear. 1400hp seems just fine for them, and to me, that means the sky is the limit.

Sorry about the long winded responses, i tore up the whole thread.

Sorry again
Take care
Mark

HQTL6SPD

i want a supra too......

SSM6MTNAVI

Here are some of the vids my buddy took of the first 2 runs I think. Anyone who wants to hear how the AEM CAI sounds might like this. Can't hear much of the exhaust so prolly next time we'll take one from the back of the car..... when I get my turbo .....


Small (1.4MB) >>> http://www.baldturbofreak.com/html/d...acura_tl_2.wmv

Larger (2.5MB) >> http://www.baldturbofreak.com/html/d...tl_3_large.wmv

SSM6MTNAVI

Here are a couple vids my buddy took of the first couple runs I think. Can't really hear the exhaust but the intake gets really loud at WOT. We were standing behind the car and from idle to 3k rpms all we could hear is the exhaust and then 4k rpms onwards holy AEM CAI batman ~ next time we'll take one standing behind the car ....... when I get the turbo thrown in.......

Enjoy!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WXNNYX3htFU

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hYd5WnJ3_5w

ILLustriousUA6

iTrader: (2)

^^ dayum, the v-tec sounds Nice...........

Atrain

First...

You have to be in the 1:1 ratio gear (whichever that is for your driveline).

If you have an automatic...the TORQUE CONVERTER has to be LOCKED-UP. If it is not locked then it slips and your numbers are PSUEDO.

The correction factor on that graph is STD. That means STANDARD correction and they are always 4-5% higher than SAE correction. Does it mean your car made less power than the next guy? No...it just means it made more power than the same car using an SAE correction factor...PROVIDED (here is the trick) the air intake temps were different.

Next issue...

Wrong Mr. Benchracer.

A Mustang Dyno reads lower than a DYNOJET. I can explain why if you want, but the bottom line here is take all dyno numbers with a grain of salt.

A-Train

Atrain

Nice videos but the dyno operator smacked right into the rev limiter.

If any of you have supercharged TL's...try to avoid this situation on the dyno.

A-Train