Soooo...I know the TL isn't the ideal track car and I had no plans of tracking the car when I bought it five years ago. Knowing what I know now, if I could go back, I would've picked up an E46 M3. But now I'm here with the TL and after attending a bunch of track days this year, I'm am officially hooked!

So this is the plan. I need to make the TL a little more track worthy. My current mods are in my sig. I can't completely go on Inaccurate's TL Diet as this is my daily driver as well. Having said that, I'm trying to think of things I can do to increase performance - and I'm mainly focusing on weight loss and suspension.

For the weight loss, I'm pretty much going down the list of the TL Diet and seeing what I could do. Of the top of my head, I'm thinking of the following:
- Racing seats
- Sunroof delete
- Front and Rear bumpers (still up in the air as I'm not sure if they actually support the "shell" - would be important to know if I'm going 140mph!!!)
- Subwoofer and rear speaker delete

What I really need help is with suspension. I have the a-specs now and was thinking of coilovers. Are there any out there that would make a big difference on the track over the a-specs AND be suitable for the streets. One thing I'm concerned about is having the car too low in the winter time.

What do you guys think? Will I be able to make a decent track car out of the TL? I know there are many better options for a track car but I've put alot of money into the car and still love it. I don't think I can get rid of her and besides, the TL is holding out well on the track and I like being the "underdog". It feels that much better passing M3's and other cars that "should" be faster. Driver mod FTW

Sorry be the long rant but all comments - positive and negative - are welcomed!

 

If you're running on street tire I don't think you're going to gain anything from swapping out the a-spec springs. There's just not enough traction to warrant a stiffer suspension.

I would concentrate on getting the handling balance dialed in. Some Koni adjustable shocks would go nice with a-spec springs. Being able to dial up the rear shocks for track use will help a lot with turn in and brake dive

I would do a Type S FSB and Progress RSB long before I would think about swapping springs. This will greatly reduce roll, improve stability, and at the same time reduce understeer.

Keep your suspension travel as close to stock as you can, this is so much more important than getting it as low as possible. If you go the coilover route, make sure they're one of the brands that retains stockish suspension travel.

Just remember that bodyroll is not the kiler in the TL as it is with other cars. You have to keep it in check but the factory geometry is good and you don't have to worry about crazy camber angles as the body leans as you do with other cars.

Last, I would do at least a very high end ultra perf summer tire like the NT05 or Starspec. These will require a minimum of a-spec/koni/swabars.

 

Mine is a daily driver too. My commute is 78 miles round trip daily. I commute from one side of Houston, thru central Houston, to the other side of Houston.

Monday thru Friday, hitting rush hour both ways. The car has no days off during the weekdays. Pouring down rain, snowing (yes, sometimes in Houston), 100+ degree days, flooding, hurricane, etc. The TL Diet has commuted thru all of this successfully.

Oh, more than one passenger? Or, a single passenger with a waist over 32 inches (won't fit into racing seat)? That could be a problem. :gheylaugh

 

Hey Matt,

I'm currently running the NT05 at the track. My instructor said I could move up to R compound tires so after these wear off (middle of next season), I'm gonna go with the NT01.

Dialing in the car for handling is exactly what I'm looking for. Does Koni make different shocks? What model should I be looking for?

As for the sway bars...I have the CT Rear but you think I should go with the stiffer Progress? I'm assuming if I go with the Progress, I would need to match it up with the FSB you recommended? Does the '05 TL come with a FSB? I'm thinking no so I guess I need to drill holes to mount a FSB?

Lots of questions and thanks for answering!

lol...my wife isn't as understanding as yours! And I need to retain the rear seats as I may need to drive my two boys around. Trust me...I'm have your itemized list printed out and I've hi-lighted all the things I think I can do and not have my wife flip out! Your cooling mod is on the list too!

One question I had for you was the bumper. Does the bumper act as a major support for the shell? I'm wondering if I'm going 130mph+, will not having the actual bumper come into play?

 

Why not just pull out the seat for the track day, and then put it back in after?

 

If you have never driven a HPDE yourself and only attended then here is what you need to know.

Sell your TL and buy the M3 or something else with a limited slip diff.

To have fun/be competative while going into a corner hot, trail braking in and then needing to accelerate OUT of the corner with out a limited slip could be done but will not be ideal, as you get GOOD you will be taking apexs so hard and with precision pitching the car in ways you have never fathomed you will NEED a limited slip to get OUT of the corner. Do not waste your money to attempt and seriously track your car.

My advice happy modding, do some casual events with no real attempt to make it a track car with the fundemental understanding of the key component our cars dont have "minus the manual S" a limited slip.

 

^Im 99% sure that all 6mt tl's have LSDs...

 

I've seriously thought about it. Any idea how easy it is? Is it just a few bolts and you're done?

I have nine track days under my belt so I've gotten to know the TL pretty well.

I totally agree with you about the M3...LOVE that car. If I could go back in time knowing what I know now, I would be driving an M3 now.

I don't want to sell the TL and get used M3 so I'm trying to make the best out of what I already have. At my level, it's still more the driver than the car. Besides, it's even more rewarding when I'm in the TL passing 335's, M3's (E46 AND E92), and a Viper GTS (first time out on the track is a very humbling experience - cool guy though).

 

Correct. At least that what the brochure says!

 

very good advice!

 

Thats what I stated.. that the 6mt was the only exception and HAS the limited slipp.

 

well this should be the best thread to ask but is it possible or made for us to put a limited slipp in our auto trannys?????

and what about a different final drive?

 

Pretty sure all 3G TL's have LSD..

 

Only 6 M/T 3G TL's have the LSD.
not sure if the auto type-s has it.

 

For real? That's

That's liking wiping before you poo, it just doesn't make sense

 

LOl jealous much?

 

and Apnorm, I think the first time you take out your seats will be a hassle.
but once you know how to do it, it should be fairly easy.

 

The only TL with the limited slip is the 6spd manual transmission Type S. Thats a fact.

 

I have the LSD in my 06 6M/T
That is a fact.

from hondanews.com

I win.

 

ok then maybe all Manual Tl's come with limited slips, which is very cool... I have no problem saying I stand corrected.

But thanks for showing your arrogance.

 

Not a problem! its all fun and games OTJ, lighten up!!

lets get this thread back on track.
apnorm, you should try taking out the back seat for shits and giggles.

 

Sounds like you have a lot of track time, more than me so take my advice only as an opinion....

You will probably need more spring for the NT01 as you mentioned. With the NT05 and the 28mm H&R front bar, 24mm Progress rear bar, I have what I would consider the bare minimum to keep me off the bumpstops at the limit.

My preference especially in a FWD is to go with stiffer springs and softer swaybars. This will allow you to put the power down better exiting the corners and allow the independent suspension to be more independent. I run fairly large swaybars as a compromise because I wasn't willing to go crazy with the spring rates in my DD.

For the stock 6mt FSB (25mm solid), the Comptech is probably perfect. Does the car tend to understeer or oversteer now?

I wouldn't do the Progress until you have the TL-S (27mm) front bar.

I see two different scenarios. Go with the large swaybars and keep the a-specs or go with the stiffer springs and determine if you need more bar after some drive time. If you're willing to give up some comfort I would go with the springs.

Whatever spring/coilover combo you choose will change the handling balance. If you go with springs first, make sure to get some seat time to determine what you need swaybar wise to get the balance right.

Koni makes the Sports and SP3s. The sports have two adjustments up front, stock and 3/4" lower. The rears have 3 adjustments, higher, stock, lower. The SP3s have more and finer adjusments. All have adjustable rebound.

Koni also makes a firmer shock than the Sports and SP3s but I've never seen if they make it for the TL.

It's very nice to have adjustment of the shocks, even if it is only rebound control. My car would understeer on turn in and oversteer at steady state and exit. I was able to firm up the rear shocks which made it more neutral on turn in and didn't affect steady state. It also helped a little on brake dive. Every car is going to be different and the adjustable shocks will really help with the fine tuning.

 

I'm pretty sure I'm going to at some point...just to see if I can notice a difference. I'm hoping to get signed off solo so that would be another 175+ pounds I would "lose"!

crap...this is a lot of info to digest. good thing the next track event isn't until April!

Seriously, thanks for the info. I've got some thinking to do to see what I want to try.

 

so only 6mt tl's come with lsd...so the 5at type s doesnt???anyone

 

Too funny... and true.

The backseat is easy to remove and reinstall. Just a few 10 mm bolts. Also, those backseat seatbelt reel mechanisms are HEAVY, especially the over-the-shoulder seatbelt reel mechanisms in the rear deck.

 

You don't necessarily need an M3 or a Miata to turn good times on a track.

I'm sure most of you guys have seen this video. She was passing sports cars and bikes in a passenger van!! :

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T0H5an9H_48

95% of it is driver skill. Keep plugging away I think it's awesome you're tracking the TL.

 

This is what I'm thinking. The NT05's still have a lot of tread left and will last 1/2 season or more. I'm gonna go with the Koni Sports, Progress RSB and Type S FSB for now. When I eventually go with the NT01's, I'll look into stiffer springs then.

Has anyone tried the braces that Marcus (Heeltoe) sells? Do you think they would make a noticable difference?


WRX - I'm dying to get home to check out that vid!

 

Thanks Inaccurate. I'm gonna look into removing the center seatbelt and mechanisms. I need the outer two for my two little ones.

 

Awesome video! Makes mine look like crap but I'm gonna post it anyways. This was up in NH this past weekend.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=heNlfBtRfgk

 

Whoop ! Awesome video. I really liked the "crash diet" part. Thanks WRX

 

LOL at the end of the van vid...it was so dramatic! hahahaha

and nice run apnorm

 

damn that looks like good fun apnorm..props to you...i would love to do that

 

Correct, my automtic TL-S does not have a limited slip... a major downfall.

 

Not to take anything away from your driving vid, but the sound of that white E30 passing you...

But nice run, it looks like a ton of fun.

 

Great video. That Bimmer had a bit more power than you but it looked like you had more brake and slightly higher cornering speed.

I love how the NT05s give you a squeel right before they let go and the break away is gentle. Let's not forget you caught and passed some serious cars. The Bimmer you were chasing kind of took away from the fact that you were seriouisly quicker than some very fast cars but I'm very impressed in the car and the skill.

 

apnorm,

I just now watched your video. I AM IMPRESSED !

I never been on a track before, but I am very impressed by this video. Damn good driving in my opinion.

 

oh man i thought it did.....well i guess i learn something new everyday on here

 

Thanks everyone! That driver of the white BMW was a real cool cat. We were talking a bunch afterwards and he complimented me on my driving - told me I had no right throwing a car that heavy around the corners like I did.

His car is a 1989 325is with a S52 engine from an E36 M3 converted to obd1, s50 intake manifold, zf tranny from a '97 M3, SS brake and clutch lines, 520maf, 3.25 lsd, headers and exhaust (no cat) - which explains that SICK sound when he passed me! Oh, and the car was stripped...2,400lbs!!!! I was thinking how I wished I had Innacurate's car!

Matt - I had track pads (Hawk DTC-60) which made the difference. I've always ran street pads and they would eventually fade so I would have to start braking earlier and earlier. With the DTC60, no fade at all. I was pretty much braking a lot deeper than almost all the cars. And those tires are awesome...bought them on your recommendation so thanks!


For those who of you who have never been to the track, you gotta try it at least once. It's so much fun. But be forewarned...you'll probably be hooked!

 

Here's the second part of that video...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PwWSsBlxlEo

 

I'd be scared of overshooting a brake point or hitting other cars on the track, but looks like you had a ton of fun.

Would be nice to see some videos from inside the car to see how you drive as well