Originally Posted by libert69

It seems like we have found the limit of the stock tranny. During the first dyno day, best run was 454whp and 377wtq. This was using a 4lb wastegate spring. Unfortunately the upper rpm range with this spring was too lean so we needed to go with a bigger spring.

We swapped in a 10lb spring and started to make some pulls. This bigger spring shifted the whole tq curve down in the power band. Previously peek tq was around 5k. Now, with the bigger spring, peak tq was closer to 3k-3.5k. Bigger spring = much quicker boost. After many 3rd gear pulls, we ran out 4th gear and had 16psi by 3.5-4k. Too much tq at a low rpm for the trans.

After looking at the graph with the new spring and lower tq curve, we noticed the hp was starting to slowly fall off in the upper rpm range. Not a sudden drop in hp up top, but a slow decline. NOT supposed to happen

We think that since the tq curve dropped so dramatically to a lower rpm,the trans and tq converter could not handle the tq

Its hard to tell now but I think the trans is slipping in 3rd gear on the street. Rodney said he heard the trans slipping and trying to stay in 3rd when I went past him during a 3rd gear wot run.

I was seeing trans temps of 225 degrees during a 4th gear pull. Ive never seen temps go above 210.

Trans fluid is still bright red and does not smell burnt. Doing a 1x3 drain and fill today to see if there is any material on the drain bolt. However there may not be any material on the drain plug bc the wear material may have been caught by the inline magnefine trans filter

So if there happens to be damage to the 3rd gear clutches and what rodney had heard was indeed slippage, should the trans be sliipping everytime in the 3rd under wot? Or will it happen occasionally and just get worse and worse?

Originally Posted by Inaccurate

Once slipping starts, it will get worse REAL fast. Unlike a clutch for a manual trans, the clutches in the auto are very thin and delicate. The auto clutches can not tolerate the slightest amount of abuse. The auto clutches will not "recover" like a manual clutch. This is why we must take preventative measures (which we know that you did, just saying for other readers) with the auto trans.

If it is slipping with wot now, it will slip again when you wot. After a few times of that, it will just take 3/4 throttle to cause slippage. A few times of that, it will then slip with just half throttle. and so forth, until the trans just stays in Limp-home mode..

Originally Posted by libert69

Converter was upgraded. There are only clutch rebuild kits available for the tl and nothing considered performance oriented. I researched the options when I was searching for converters. Its too bad there are no performance clutches b.c I would of bought them In a heartbeat.

Im almost positive Im switching to a 6spd at this point

Originally Posted by libert69

Thats what I figured. We spoke to a friend of Rodneys that builds high hp hondas/acuras and he said, if the vsa is a popping up under wot then its for one of two reasons. 1 was wheel spin but thats not the case. 2, if the trans is spinning faster then the wheels then you have slippage

Looks like we have slippage. Faurk !

Originally Posted by I hate cars

The fluid will darken quickly if you have a slipping clutchpack.

I would not worry about your temps, a high stall converter is going to raise the temps. 225 is in the completely normal range if you're running it hard and into the higher gears. Back in the old days, with two giant coolers I remember bringing it up on boost waiting for the green and if the other guy was a rookie (or smart and purposely screwing me) and took a long time to stage I would watch my temps creep past 280 degrees. A good syn will handle it no problem.

As Inaccurate said, it will continue to slip and it will go completely out very quickly.

At this point you need to raise main line pressure to deal with the power. I hate to say it but you need to manage boost so that it ramps in in proportion with throttle and later in the rpm range. I'm not sure how the spool is on the TL but with that turbo I imagine it has the capability to make a lot of boost even at low throttle which can be bad on the trans.

I believe Inacc has the schematics of the trans. I don't know where to go with it because I've never seen the electical but it has to have some sort or linear or PWM solenoid for main line pressure. I'm sure there's a way to electrically manipulate the signal so it gives full line pressure sooner and/or maybe more line pressure at full throttle as well. If the trans can ramp the line pressure up sooner, you can ramp the boost up sooner as well without slippage.

Another thing, make sure the Tl does not have some sort of strategy to lock the TCC at full throttle. It's doubtful the clutch will hold up under this kind of power.

Originally Posted by libert69

Good info IHC....we did adjust boost to allow a gradual increase in tq and hp. BUT this was after we changed the spring and had a few runs were the tq came on real early. At this point I think the damage was already done. Boost comes on sooooo smooth and the power is wicked.

We have been talking about line pressure since I had the turbo. I dont have the knowledge to undertake an experiment to raise the line pressure though. otherwise I would have tried it already.

"Another thing, make sure the Tl does not have some sort of strategy to lock the TCC at full throttle. It's doubtful the clutch will hold up under this kind of power." ---How would i even check that?



I swapped in a new app sensor when the turbo was first installed. Maybe it went bad again?? Ill check into that.

Im searching threads for a list of parts needed for the COMPLETE swap. Ill be in touch.

Originally Posted by libert69

spoke to level 10 transmissions about line pressure, soleniods, clutches and so on...

scroll back several pages or so when we were talking about the tq converter, regulator spring and stator...

level 10 said to in order to increase line pressure in the early rpm range you need to change out the regulator spring to one with less tension. He recommended about 75% less tension then stock for my setup with 15psi. That "should" give full or close to full line pressure in the lower rpms where it feels like im experiencing the sliipping.

level 10 also said that after swapping the spring I should adjust the soleniods on top of the trans by 1/4 turn at a time. He said adjusting the soleniods WITHOUT swapping the spring first probably wouldnt do anything. Reminds of that thread a few years ago about the guy adjusting the soleniods on his stock tl and needed that special tool from sonex

Finally, they said raybestos now offers clutches for the tl. raybestos honda gpx clutches

http://www.raybestospowertrain.com/r...=55&Itemid=237

level 10 and raybestos recommend dw1 fluid with these clutches. I talked about my use of type f so far and he had nothing bad to say about it but noted that raybestos recommended dw1

I wish I would of known about this fu*cking spring when I did the converter swap. Might have prevented all this.

Originally Posted by libert69

ran a suzuki gsxr600 from a dig to about 120. put about 2 car lengths on the bike.

more updates later

Originally Posted by libert69

Went for a ride last night before I head home. Pretty much beating on the tranny in every possible way lol.

Already bought a 6spd tranny so Im doing the swap. Bye bye auto

Myself and the bike were at a light and I had rodney in the car. Bike revved at me while at the light so he wanted to run. Tire spin on the top of 1st, backed off the gas a bit so the trans would shift, spinning top of 2nd, backed off again a tiny bit so I could shift, definitely slipping 3rd gear at 6000ish rpm. RPMs jump back and forth a few hundred but basically stay in the same place and the car is still accelerating. Have to shift to 4th when this happens. 4th gear grabs with no slip and pulls very hard. 16psi at 3500rpm. Backed off at 120ish at 2 car lengths ahead

There was never a moment when the bike was ahead of me. Im guessing he wasnt very good at launching that thing bc he should of definitly jumped ahead when I was spinning top of 1st. He was at my door from 1st through 2nd and I started pulling away from 70 to 120

Originally Posted by sogellagepul

1. I blew out my transmission. its a 5AT.
2. I'm looking to put in a supercharger soon as well, a performance tranny would make the best of it.