JJH

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Decided I wanted to start a progress thread in the performance section for my "build" even though it's likely not ever going to advance to anything past basic head work, cams and some PnP. Before when I was still focused on my 5AT type-s, power was not really my concern since I was already at a deficiency being a 5AT. Needing PCDs and Jpipe just to reach what the 6MT type-s was putting down was far enough for me with that car. Now that I've picked up my 6MT KBP type-s (Progress Thread), I'm much more apt to aim for bigger numbers - especially now that we've got a full tuning option available at a reasonable cost to really squeeze the extra juice out of each bolt on.

With that said, this will be a progress thread of sorts in that I will keep it updated with any and all performance modifications that I do to my car. I'm hoping for some more seasoned TL owners who have went down this path to chime in with some advice. For reference, I picked up the car on 8/2/2013 completely bone stock.

Lets get started.

8/10/2013
As of today, they only performance mods that I've done are the following:

-RV6 V3 Jpipe
-RV6 V3 PCDs
-AEM V2 CAI
-Slave Cylinder Check Valve Delete
-GM Syncromesh FM Manual Transmission Fluid Swap

We all know the 6MT type-s stock dynos at ~250WHP. Between the PCDs, Jpipe, and AEM CAI (maybe +1 WHP, if that) I might be putting down an additional 20WHP making my total 270WHP roughly. Still a long way to go to 300WHP.

What are my plans?

I see that P2R just released an intake manifold spacer. When I installed my PCDs, Jpipe, and AEM V2 CAI I really thought that I had shifted that HP and torque curve way up into the higher RPMs and lost a substantial amount in the low end. Maybe it's in my head, but this is the second TL type-s that I have had this experience with. I actually think that the back pressure from the stock cats and jpipe helps keep that torque curve and power down low. In an effort to counteract this, I'm going to get the P2R IM Spacer and thermal gaskets. If you've ever drove an MDX, you know that it has a lot more low end torque than the TL, by design. Among many subtle changes, the larger IM spacer can be attributed to the shift and I'm hoping this will balance out my torque curve a bit. I'm also going to likely get the P2R Throttle body spacer and thermal gaskets.

I've had my eye on the true dual exhaust since I picked up my 6MT. Before when I had an auto I really didn't see a reason to get an exhaust because 1) Power gains would be negligible and 2) Aftermarket exhausts really only sound good with manuals. I NEED something to get rid of this rasp from the RV6 V3 PCDs. Once I hit 3k RPMs, my car evokes the same feeling inside that I get when someone scratches their fingernails on a chalkboard. Plus it sounds ricey as crap, which I'm definitely not a fan of.

I'm going to eventually sell my AEM V2 CAI and fabricate a custom 4" CAI. This will probably come after I either bore out my throttle body or get an SHAWD throttle body, undecided still. No point IMO in having a 4" CAI with stock throttle body.

Once I'm "fully bolted", I'm going to get the Hondata Flashpro and really try to squeeze the juice out of my bolt ons to see what a good tune can do for someone who is fully bolted. I still won't really be fully bolted at that point, but I will have enough bolt ons to warrant a custom tune. It will be interesting to see where I'm at at that point.

After the above, I should be closer to 290-295WHP. I'm making conservative estimates. In the near future, I will be dynoing with what I've got now (PCDS, Jpipe, CAI). That's all for now!

MarcoNorthPolo

Subscribed.

yoks032rs

Sounds like a good plan, good luck.

i_love_cars

iTrader: (1)

awesome. Always glad to see more people taking advantage of modding opportunities on 6mt type-s, now that we have flashpro for tuning. Lot of people will hate on you, though

I had basically all the bolt-ons you are talking about, plus the Flashpro tune, and I hit 295. So I think your expectations are pretty realistic.

Throw those PnP lower intake runners in the mix and I'm sure you'd hit 300 - I never had those when I hit 295.

JJH

iTrader: (1)

Do you have a picture of your dyno when you hit 295 fully bolted + Hondata tuned? I'm curious to see what your curves looked like. I'm hoping that tuning can more equally distribute my power band across the low end. I don't like how the car feels right now.

I figured I will take some heat, but whatever. RV6 has also dropped some hints they might be dropping a turbo kit here soon. If that happens, I'll be nice and ready for it. I wouldn't mind having a turbod TL running some low boost as a reliable daily driver. We never had a turbod TL that had Flashpro, would be interesting.

Steven Bell

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Subscribed, indeed.

yungone501

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It's not that I don't like sharing a similar interest and passion with others about specific horsepower goals (300 or 350hp seem to be most popular) they have with their cars, it's just the simple fact I've seen so many come on and type out a "wish list" of parts, ideas and goals only to become underachievers.

I generally encourage them anyways in hopes of contributing to the end result of reality but its beginning to get discouraging. I know a few close people that have asked me and many others to help here and to give advice there...and then becomes wasted effort on everyone's behalf.

All I ask is (OP and others alike) if you're going waste your own time that's fine, but stop wasting everyone's else's

OP, it's a lot of work to make this happen but it's very much worth the payoff and the end result. I've done it many times now with only two cars (in regards to j-series) and each time is better than the last. It's an awesome thing to be able drive something of your hard work, skill, determination and most of all: part of you. Good luck man. Keep it going.

JJH

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Grand_hustle17

It would be nice to know where ur at... Lots of guesstimates, id like to actually know where you are at, and not to be picky.. what dyno will you be using? Hopefully not that dyno dynamics machine where they take the front wheel off as those numbers are bloated and fake... Anyways it would be pretty nice to just throw it on the dyno to see where you are at and where you need to go and the progression...

JMJ3rd

Subscribed. Way to go!

JJH

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JJH

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Grand_hustle17

Are you stock?.... Thought you said you had a few mods in your 1st post?

StealthTL-S

Subscribed. I am in a similar situation as you, with a stock TL - type S 6 speed. I am considering J pipe, and HFC's , and a tune with Hondata Flashpro, but do not want to lose any down low power.

JJH

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JJH

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sockr1

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would like to see if you can get a dyno showing the low end gains with the IM spacer. i agree i've lost some low end with similar mods and would be nice to get some of it back.

Sonnick

Don't bother boring the stock throttle body. For only like $75 more, you can have the ZDX, which is bigger.

StealthTL-S

I thought the HFC's were 200 cell? not 300 cell? Anyway, I see your point. I would think I would gain with HFC's and deleting the 3rd cat while adding the J Pipe. But to lose low end torque is not worth it to me. I will not do the mod if I lose low end. I do not want to run the PCD's because I do not want rasp or drone. I want to keep my type S a nice ride without drone. I will not be changing the type S cat back exhaust at all. I am waiting on your results. I still have the idea of getting HFC's, j pipe, and possibly the Hondata Flashpro would cure the loss of power down low....

justnspace

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you dont lose low end torque....

NvrDwn

This.

The gain in high-end makes the low end feel like you lost power.

justnspace

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Ive explained it to stealthcivic MULTIPLE times, yet he wants to listen to the newbs that havent even modded their cars, yet..

I gained torque with bolt on's
and now with Hondata there is absolutely no reason to say that we've lost torque....

JJH

iTrader: (1)

Just my butt dyno talking Justin, I've got nothing to back it up but anecdotal experiences with the same mods on two different tl type-s's. You're right, end of story What you guys are saying makes sense though.

So since you had PCDs/Jpipe prior to true dual, were you getting rasp exactly at like 3k-4k rpms? If TD eliminates that, I would be a happy man. I've heard good things about Vibrant resonators too.

StealthTL-S

justnspace...I am listening man, I read on here from some veterans that ran different types of J pipes that they lost some low end. This is why I am scared. I know you have told me, but others (veteran owners) have stated differently in my "benefits of J pipe" thread.
If, I can use the Hondata tune with the j pipe and HFC's I feel better, as I said before.

AccordFlex

iTrader: (1)

I was at 285whp with PCDs, Jpipe, Catback, and AEM CAI which were very solid for my mods. Get a catback and you will be in the 280 range as well. After that you should do the 3.7L IM, ZDX TB, and PnP Runners.

Hope your build goes well, let us know if you have any questions.

JJH

iTrader: (1)

Did you gain roughly 10-15whp from the catback? Which catback did you have? Do you think that you would have been closer to 290 with a 4" CAI vs the aem cai?

Those are my plans. There was a whole 3.7 "kit" for sale in the BM all brand new that I should have bit on but I was in decision mode about buying a new car or not so I passed on it.

justnspace

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that, my friend, is people splitting hairs.

"OMGz!!!! one pipe makes 2hp MORE!!!"
"this one lost 4. Oh noes!!!"

and if you still want proof, dyno stock and then dyno after and you'll have your answer.
you dont even have to buy the jpipe.
just do a stock dyno run and mod your car without the jpipe. and if you're not hitting in the same ball park as the others, then you'll know what you're missing

AccordFlex

iTrader: (1)

No idea what I gained exactly with just my exhaust. I dynoed my first time with those mods because I knew what the TLS made stock roughly.

I lost power after my stage 3 clutch, motor mounts, 3.7L manifold, runners and TB because the ECU made the car run so rich which decreased the timing. After basic bolt ons you will definitely need Hondata Tuning

i_love_cars

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Red line = Flashpro tuned
Blue line = not tuned

StealthTL-S

What exact mods do you have that got you to 295 ? I went back in the thread and read , but did not see your mods. I just see you are tuned with Hondata, which I know is great.

bouncer07

Get an Infiniti G37/Q50 would clear all 300 whp

JJH

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He has Jpipe, HFPCs, intake, bored 3.7 TB, 3.7 IM, pnp runners, and and ATLP catback quads I believe.

justnspace

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^had.

he now has a built engine, probably pushing some where in the neighborhood of 350!

bouncer07

I haven't seen an NA reach 50whp from 300 yet without some serious E85 conversion and every other mods will be a gain here and there after the engine has been breathing good already.

justnspace

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^I love cars has done headwork and is running an aggressive set of cams.

i_love_cars

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you are correct on my mods except that I did not have PnP runners.

350 is optimistic, lol. The baseline run from 1.5 months ago before the build started was 291, and running like dog shit a week ago on the dyno without my custom cam gears, I was putting down 320 at 6500 rpm - with the cam gears ironing some things out, we should be able to take redline from 6800 up to 7200 or 7300.

Cam gears will be worth something because the timing is off a lot - like +4 in the front and -8 in the rear. I'm on a DynoJet so 350 whp end result is doubtful. Remember that Andy was putting down 318 on a DynoPack with his full build except for his 3" dump (which put him up to 325). That would probably read 300 on a DynoJet, as DP's read higher. I bet on a DynoPack the raw number could get close to 350, but it's irrelevant because the gains are all that matters.

I'm after +40 whp when all is said and done.


bouncer is correct - gaining 50 whp from ported heads/cams/12:1 compression is a bit optimistic.

35-40 whp gains are a bit more in the realm of reality.

justnspace

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*I was just throwing numbers out*

i_love_cars

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bouncer07

Now maybe if we have some stage 3 and stage 4 offers, maybe this hybrid engine may reach 380-410 whp on an all motor set up.

JJH

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