XxAfG786xX

Thanks again, hmm seems like a good weight reduction..since im a good driver and all..

Eoanou

I'm just looking to change my current seats from an automatic seat adjust to a manual one, I wonder if that's possible or if anyone would want to do that.

Eoanou

Aren't seat brackets pretty much universal though?

MOD EDIT:
All members, read POST #1 before posting. Failure to do so may result in a ban!

trancemission

sorry edubbz but we like to treat each other with a bit more respect then that here.

ggesq

iTrader: (1)

Some of you guys really need to grow up. Like trancemission said, we treat each other with respect around here. Take it to PM if you got personal issues. Stop feeding the trolls and stay on topic.

ballinfizzle89

iTrader: (6)

ggesq, trance and other mods/members..sorry about that guys

eoanou..well you would put in racing seats for two reasons, weight reduction and better support (bolsters). I guess making it a manual would probably reduce a little weight but if you're going only for the wieght and not so much support, then I say it's not worth it unless you're planning on removing other weight as well

Inaccurate

Eoanou,

If all you want is manual seats, perhaps seats from a 2003+ Accord will fit. I think the bolt mount locations are close enough to force-fit it (perhaps a little bend here, and elongate a hole there).

ballinfizzle89

iTrader: (6)

Yeah true, you think it would make a noticable difference though?
Personally, I dont think it would if that's all he were to change but then again Idk your plans Eaonou



MOD EDIT:
All members, read POST #1 before posting. Failure to do so may result in a ban!

I hate cars

Any way to get the lightweight "racing" seats without the 4/5 point harnesses? They're not supposed to be in a car without a cage and are very dangerous in a rollover where the roof collapses.

My goals are a little different. I would be happy to break even but she's becoming a fat ass.
So far, I've removed:

Front dampener
Rear dampener
Stock sub
Spare and jack
Engine cover for heat removal
3rd seatbelt (has never been used in nearly 2 years)
Infinity speakers.... I know people are going to laugh but they're quite a bit lighter than stock.
Junk
3rd cat


Added:

2 12W6s
Amp
40lbs of dynamat+foam
Can of fix-a-flat
255 tires

Future:

Possibly the front bumper because weight off the ends makes the car much more resposive to changes in direction. I've never had a wreck in my 16 years of driving though with my luck the day I take the bumper off I will have my first. Maybe not since the GF occasionally drives and she likes to test the brakes out in bumper to bumper traffic. Besides, I wonder how "untying" the frame rails will affect harmonics and rigidity. I know in my other car it made the steering a little less precise from a frame mounted steering box and more frame flex. The TL might not have this problem. Maybe Inaccurate could comment?

Hood: Going to file a claim for some damage from a golfball and rock. If the hood has to be replaced I might see if they will let me pay the difference of a carbon fiber hood.

UR pulley

Eoanou

I'm thinking if I remove the motor for the seats, I could save 35lbs between both seats and still have a leather seat that's comfortable.

I hate cars

You could always take your car to my bodyshop and go from this:




To this:






They were nice enough to do weight reduction while it was in there.

Inaccurate

When I removed my bumpers, I didn't notice any less rigidness in the frame. Just the opposite. The car felt tighter from the slightly stiffer suspension and more responsive to steering input.

XxAfG786xX

thats what i like to hear

extremetls

instead of swapping seats... remove the motors and air bags... that might save you quite a few pounds and it would look stock. only thing is that you will probably lose all adjustability of the seat.

ACTROS

iTrader: (7)

^Like others have said, remove your front seats! Get a touring/racing type cloth seat instead. From a personal experience Yanaka seats are comfortable (adjustable), cheap (about $400 for a pair), light (about 30lbs each) and high quality (Japan made)!

Eoanou

I'll look into it.

ballinfizzle89

iTrader: (6)

Yeah man, if you're going to replace the seats, you should just go all out and get something similar to racing seats/what actros said

HQTL6SPD

So today I got my Megan resonator (third cat delete) installed. WOW! I don't know why it took me this long to do. Looks very good, performs even better. I also got some of my low end torque back. It makes my HKS exhaust have an even meaner growl under load!!

It's beautiful out, and my car too can breathe easy now. I aimed the stock cat towards the sun, hardly any light went through...

It's a must do for those with cat-backs!!

XxAfG786xX

whats the part number?? im planning on getting one

I hate cars

You could buy one or do what I did for free. Pull the stock one off, stab it with a crow bar and put it back on. Completely free.

HQTL6SPD

^well yea that's also an option, but i didn't want to risk having more of a 'gurgleing' sound... tho i'd like to hear what it would sound like hehe

I bought this since i needed a resonator and also wanted to get rid of that restrictive 3rd cat. For the price it was well worth since it bolts right up. But thanks to NY's wet cold and wet climate, the cat was all rusted on, so i had my mechanic install resonator using a lift, air gun, and many other tools...

Exhaust growls more than before, start-up sounds smoother, no more crackling noises when reving it up. To me this mod is perfect for those who have an exhaust and want a small resonator like the dynamax, but without it rusting down the line ..

O yeah, and thanks Innacurate for doing this mod first and sharing

XxAfG786xX

lol sounds good, but i rather prefer the megan...

Inaccurate

Check post #107 on page 5 in the link below.

Swaping out the cat for a straight pipe? (click here)


MOD EDIT:
All members, read POST #1 before posting. Failure to do so may result in a ban!

Inaccurate

Here are some pics showing how I did the rear-seat delete in case someone wants to do this mod. -- ok, stop rolling your eyes

The most important thing is that a sound-barrier MUST be installed in place of the seatback. I learned this the hard way. I had not test driven the car after I installed the upholstery. So, on the next day as I am leaving for work, I nearly pissed in my pants when I was blasted with loud "road noise" coming from the trunk. I endured the noise for my commute that day. However, that evening, I fabricated a sound barrier post-haste.

The sound barrier that I quickly "threw together" is adequate. It is slightly louder than oem, but still okay. It sounds like one of the rear doors is slightly ajar (not fully closed), or like one of the rear windows is down approximately one inch.

Without any sound barrier, it is LOUD. Imagine the sound of driving your car with both rear doors removed. Scary. Now I see why Acura put so much sound insulation material in the trunk and under the rear seat. There is a hellacious amount of noise being generated by the rear tires.

Time for the show ....



Below is "ground zero".





Below is the upholstery material. I got it at Lowe's. Ok, ok.... it is no really upholstery material. It started life as an indoor/outdoor area rug. But, it is light weight, the right color to match my interior, looks like automotive upholstery, cheaply priced, and convenient to purchase at Lowe's. Perfect.





Below, after measuring and cutting.





Below are the styrofoam panels that I used for support and sound insulation. I got it at Lowe's. The package contains 6 pieces, and the whole package is less than one pound. Each piece measures 0.75 inch x 13 inch x 48 inch.





Below is a styrofoam piece used as the rear deck. The holes are for the speakers. This piece doubles as a support piece to provide a smooth surface for the upholstery, and as a sound insulation material to isolate sound coming from the trunk.





Below is a styrofoam piece used to provide support to create a flat surface. Without it, the upholsterer would appear lumpy as it followed the irregular contours.





Below is the most important piece, the sound barrier. I threw this together quickly after discovering how loud the trunk area is without any sound insulation. It's a single piece of that styrofoam paneling surrounded by sponge-type foam. It's not perfect, but it was quick, lightweight, and effective.



Talk to you soon with more weight termination

ballinfizzle89

iTrader: (6)

Wow, very creative! I'm in awe everyday how you guys use some products from lowe's and HD to make some nice, quality DIY stuff

Devastation

pretty nice, let us know how it works out
p.s. nice dog too

minkl81

iTrader: (2)

very interesting thread. feels like i need to put my tl on a diet too

Inaccurate

UPDATE

I GOT ANOTHER 84 POUNDS OFF OF THE CAR !!!!!

:gheywave::gheywave:





To discuss the safety aspects of this particular weight reduction, I respectfully ask that we use the supplementary thread (click here) to prevent this main thread from going too far off topic. Thanks for your cooperation.




------ On With The Show ------















------ A Quick Overview ------


My goal was to get at least a 80 pound reduction (not 78, not 79). It was not easy. Various mounting brackets were always daring to spoil the weight savings. If I was not vigilant, the brackets and fasteners would had easily eroded much of the weight savings. Most obviously, I could not afford (weight wise) the sliding rails to allow the seat to be adjustable. Plus after doing some research, I had read on other forums from guys that had the sliding rails that the sliding rails would become loose and rattle too much. Additionally, the sliding rails are not FIA-Homologated and could break-away in a severe collision. Why sliders are not used, they break(click here).

While researching, I came across a quote that I thought was humorous yet true. While discussing the lack of adjustability of his racing seat, a guy said the seat was "adjusted to fit me, and screw the rest who want to drive *my* car". Harshly stated, but true. Before totally committing to this philosophy, I wanted to see if my wife, having short height, could drive my car without moving the seat. We found that she could use a pillow behind her back to adequately drive the car. She would only be expected to drive my car in an emergency situation. Also, this mod is reversible. If something changed in my lifestyle where my wife would need to drive my car on a regular basis, the oem seats can be re-installed. All of the wiring for the oem seats still function. The wiring is just tucked under the carpet.

One of the things that I looked forward to with these racing seats was having a lower seating position. The oem seat did not lower enough for my taste, and I am only 5'7". With my preferred mounting position for the racing seat, I now sit 2 inches lower than with the oem seat (which had been adjusted as low as the oem seat allowed).

The cost was $2165 for this project. See the section named "The Numbers" at the bottom of this post for pricing details. I realize that this is half of the price for a Comptech supercharger. But you know me by now.... In addition to the power, I prefer improvements in braking and handling too as an overall fun-filled, adrenalin-inducing package. Weight reduction mods give me all three. As the TV commercial says, "When you turn-on your car, does it return the favor?"

The racing seat fits perfectly for my 32-inch waist. However, I would not recommend these seats if your waist is larger. Even with my 32-inch waist, the fit is snug... not a tight squeeze, but no free space either. "Fits like a glove" would be the best way to describe it.

The OMP seats are beautiful. I am amazed at the quality and craftsmanship. This particular model is gel-coated, which creates a beautiful clear coat finish to the fiberglass that has a fantastic shine. The pic below demonstrates this glossy finish.







My Adventures With This Project



This project of installing racing seats was challenging (many obstacles), was expensive (but worth it to me), required much planning, required much researching regarding safety, and had long wait-times to save-up the money. This was not a simple "order it and bolt it on" project. Well, at least not for "anal" me.

It was difficult having to wait while I was saving-up the money. But in hindsight, this gave me time to not rush thru things. I would plan ahead and purchase the next item that would benefit me the most at that stage. Sort of like a prolonged Just-in-time delivery method. I would then have plenty time to plan the next step while I was saving money for it.

A chunk of time was used to decide which brand and model of seat to get. There is a wide selection of models to choose among. I felt like a "kid in a candy store." After comparing, I liked the OMP brand the most. I had to spend time to find a good vendor that I could trust to order from online (including some phone screening of possible vendors). No vendors stocked the OMP seat model that I wanted. Therefore, my order was drop-shipped to me from OMP. This worked out great because I was assured of receiving fresh product straight from the OMP's warehouse in Florida. As a side note, OMP seats are made in Italy and then shipped to the OMP warehouse in Miami, Florida.

Another chunk of time was used to figure out the best way to mount the seats. In the beginning of this project, I thought that I had found a bolt-in bracket for the aftermarket seat. Because our TL is the same platform as a 2003+ Accord, a bracket for the 2003+ Accord should had worked. I order just the driver-side bracket first to see if it would fit. Had to wait 4 weeks for delivery (special order item). Once it arrived, I checked the fit. Nearly fit, but no cigar if a person was looking for a true bolt-in bracket. The bracket is a half inch too short between the front bolts and the rear bolts. I don't know if the bracket was defective, or if the 2003+ Accord truly does have slightly different mounting locations. I decided to not use the bracket because it is too heavy (in addition to not fitting). It weighs 8+ pounds per each bracket.








As a side note, I noticed that the bracket had a sticker on it indicating the manufacturer (WedgeEngineering). Although I ordered it as a Sparco item, Sparco was just a middle man. So if you are interested in this bracket, I recommend directly contacting the manufacturer, WedgeEngineering (click here). For the 2003+ Accord, the part number for the driver-side bracket is PN# 1226 and the passenger-side is PN# 1227.




A chunk of time was used to trial fit the various parts as I received them. This meant several separate weekends of taking out the oem seats which is not fun when you weigh 145 pounds and the oem seat (that you must dead-lift) weighs 63 lbs. While spending one weekend to trial fit the seats (mock-up), I was using small blocks of 2x4 lumber to support the racing seat inside the car. The front half of the seat was sitting directly onto the floor pan and the rear half of the seat was being prop'ed up with the wood blocks. I looked at the wood block and thought "damn, that will work better (stronger and lighter) than the WedgeEngineering bracket". At that point, it became an obvious decision to mount straight into the floor pan and forego the WedgeEngineering bracket. With the seat mounted directly into the floor: 1) the seating height is perfect, 2) the mounting is firmer (butt connected to road feel), 3) the mounting is stronger (withstand higher force before failure according to my intuition), 4) I would not need to purchase the passenger-side WedgeEngineering bracket at over $100, 5) it would be less weight. I went to Lowe's and found a high quality and strong piece of Red Oak wood that I could use to fabricate my "custom" mounts.





With regards to using intuition to engineer this project, I offer the following. It is commonly agreed that the worst-case scenario is that the occupant will experience a 20G force during a collision (again, worst case condition). So for my 145-lb body, this would equate to a 3000 pound force during a 20G impact. From an engineering perspective, you must constantly ask yourself this question - "Will this bolt (or seat mount, belt mount, etc.) withstand the anticipated load in the anticipated direction". For example with the shoulder seatbelt mounts, could the whole car (3000 lbs) be hoisted up via those two mount ? Intuition was used to answer these questions to my satisfaction. I am confident that the FIA Homologated racing seat will break long before the mounting fails. I even purchased Grade 8 (or Grade 12.9 for metric) hardware for all fasteners (including Grade 8 nuts and Grade 8 washers). The fasteners were ordered from www.BoltDepot.com.




To further discuss the safety aspects of this particular weight reduction, I respectfully ask that we use the supplementary thread (click here) to prevent this main thread from going too far off topic. Thanks for your cooperation.


One of the bigger obstacles in this project was removing the car's dependency to the oem seats. This reminds me of having to do surgery to separate siamese twins "connected at the wiring harness". Without the proper connections to the oem seats, annoying warning lights on the dash will be seen (including SRS) and chiming reminders will be heard to fasten your seat belt. Suffice it to say, removing the car's dependency to the seats was challenging as this picture below illustrates. However, the results are rewarding to not having to see any warning lights nor hear any reminders. Before attempting the surgery, I had studied the service manual for several nights. This included analyzing various wiring diagrams to understand how the system functioned, and then looking for ways to trick the system once the connections were lost to the oem seats. The studying of the service manual paid-off because I was able to find an eloquent solution (to me). But, it required access to the deep depths of the dash. After doing surgery for 10 hours straight on a Saturday, victory was claimed. I now have no warning chimes, no warning lights, and no MID warnings. The system is tricked into thinking that the oem seats (and the many SRS components located within the oem seats) still exist.





When first thinking about adding racing seats to my car, I had originally thought that I would use the oem seat belts. I spent many nights doing Google searches related to automotive collision protection with regards to seat design, seat belts, and air bags. I even paid to download several Technical Papers from the SAE (Society of Automotive Engineers) website. After researching the safety aspects involved with installing these seats, I learned how gravely important seat belts are to crash survival. We are all aware that we need to wear seat belts, but little do we know that seat belts are the primary survival equipment (not air bags) in all types of crashes (including rollovers). After learning the critical importance of seat belts, and after researching the advantages/disadvantages of racing harnesses, I then decided to go with a FIA-Homologated racing harness (6 point). Then, more studying was done to learn the proper method and associated safety concerns to installing the racing seats and racing harness.



To further discuss the safety aspects of this particular weight reduction, I respectfully ask that we use the supplementary thread (click here) to prevent this main thread from going too far off topic. Thanks for your cooperation.


Thanks for allowing me to share my TL Diet with you !!!





------ The Numbers ------


The oem driver seat is 70 lbs, and the oem passenger seat is 65 lbs. Because I had previously removed the kick-panel and airbag from each seat, my driver seat was 63 lbs and my passenger seat was 58 lbs.

Each racing seat weighs 20.5 lbs. Each set of brackets to mount each racing seat weighs 4.6 lbs.



Here's the math for the weight removed.

63.0 lbs oem driver seat
58.0 lbs oem passenger seat
24.0 lbs oem restraints (seat belts, retractors, etc.)
-------------------
145.0 lbs Total for oem system


20.5 lbs racing seat driver
20.5 lbs racing seat passenger
10.0 lbs seat brackets and fasteners
5.0 lbs racing harness driver
3.0 lbs racing harness passenger
2.0 lbs harness anchors
----------------------------
61.0 lbs Total for racing system


145.0 lbs oem system
-61.0 lbs racing system
-----------------------------
84.0 lbs TOTAL REMOVED




Here's the prices.

639 OMP Grip Seat (PN# HA688H-N)
639 OMP Grip Seat (PN# HA688H-N)
100 Shipping fee ($50 per seat)
134 OMP Seat Bracket (PN# HC732)
134 OMP Seat Bracket (PN# HC732)
309 OMP Racing Harness (PN# DA401E71)
110 OMP Street Harness (PN# DA507071)
100 Grade 8 fasteners and forged eyebolts
---------------------
$2165 Total




ITEMIZED LIST OF WEIGHT REDUCTION
-----------------------------------------------------
84.0 Racing Seats and racing restraint system (see Warning #3 below)
40.0 Reduced fuel (buy just 4.5 gallons at a time)
40.0 Rims
36.0 Rear seat delete
34.0 Spare tire (use lightweight 12V air pump)
27.5 Braille battery
23.0 Trunk panels
17.5 Parking brake and lever (see Warning #1 below)
17.0 Front bumper
16.0 Rear bumper
13.0 Personal weight loss (attributed to this project)
10.0 Front seat kick panels
9.0 Side curtain airbags (see Warning #2 below)
8.5 Mid muffler delete
8.5 Seatbelts for rear seat
8.0 CAI
7.5 Front damper
7.0 UR Crank pulley
6.0 Engine bay panels
6.0 Rear seat arm rest
5.5 Subwoofer Speaker
5.5 Ground effect panels
5.5 Rear deck
5.0 Floor mats
4.0 Reduced wiper fluid (use 1 pint at a time)
3.7 Rear seat insulation
3.5 Engine cradle damper
3.5 Small airbags in front seats (see Warning #2 below)
3.0 Megan pipe replacing oem 3rd cat
2.5 Glovebox plate
2.4 Owner manual
1.8 Hood insulation
1.5 Trunk damper
1.5 Splash guards for front brake rotors
1.2 Xm radio reciever
1.0 Exhaust heat shield
0.5 Coin holder & sunglass holders
------------------------------------------------------------
470.0 Lbs TOTAL



DYNAMIC WEIGHT REDUCTION
----------------------------------------------
423 Static weight loss
105 Dynamic weight loss from UR Pulley
120 Dynamic weight loss from rims
---------------------------------------------
648 Lbs DYNAMIC TOTAL



ESTIMATED CURB WEIGHT
------------------------------------
3580 - 470 = 3110 Static
3580 - 648 = 2932 Dynamic



EQUIVALENT HP INCREASE
------------------------------------
(3580 lbs / 2932 lbs) x 258 hp = 315 HP (equivalent output)
315 hp - 258 hp = 57 HP (equivalent increase)

Note: This is not just peak hp increase. This is
a 22% increase across entire rpm range.



Warning #1: Parking brake is mandatory to pass state inspection in many states.
Warning #2: Tampering with oem airbags is illegal in many states.
Warning #3: Use of aftermarket seats and/or seatbelts can cause injury or death.






-------- The TL Diet: Woo Hoo, What a Ride !!! --------

Inaccurate

------ A Photo Essay ------

ChucksCL-S

Very nice. Thanks for all the info. With your car so light it's getting alittle up there in ride height!


MOD EDIT:
All members, read POST #1 before posting. Failure to do so may result in a ban!

FiveLiterCheater

It does look higher than usual....very nice though, atleast you're doing something original. It seems like you're doing this to mostly to make the car more agile....I hope to god you're atleast running A-SPEC suspension and a RSB lol...

ballinfizzle89

iTrader: (6)

Wow, Inaccurate, I'm impressed, the seats look badass! Love being updated in this post and your pictures with wierd things in them, like that dragon haha. I was going to tell you to get ASpec Suspension/RSB too haha. 665 per seat?! Expensive..but you gotta pay to play

This thread just motivated me to clean out my trunk...which has stock springs, books, etc

asujosh1

if you really want to get silly, pull out the entire interior and remove all of the sound deadening material that is adhered to the body. I did this on a first gen Rx-7 that wasnt very quiet to begin with and it shaved 50 lbs of the weight of the car. with how quiet the TL is, you chould be able to see significant decrease in weight by doing this.

but, keep in mind, the car will be LOUD when you are finished.

MTVtec

You need a drop

Inaccurate

I agree about the lowering. I have a feeling that will be my next mod.

ballinfizzle89

iTrader: (6)

What are you thinking? Coils or Springs?

Inaccurate

ballinfizzle89,

At this point, I don't know enough about the various lowering options. I will be doing some searching on the forum soon although.

aznbo187

iTrader: (1)

Thanks for saving me from some of the upcoming headaches, inaccurate.

I actually really like the quality and finish of those OMP seats. I'm still contemplating between OMP or Recaro SPG's. Out of all the seats I've sat in, the Recaro's fit the best with just enough room for it to be snug but not uncomfortable.

Funny how you mentioned Wedge Engineering. I contacted Wendel at Wedge to see how much it would cost to get a model made for the TL, but it was just way too much especially with the selected number of people that would consider getting racing seats.

When you mounted the seats, did you simply drill a hole into the floor? That's all I can see. I'm really concerned about the mounting options when I do decide to purchase the bucket seats.

Lastly, did you use resistors to fool the computer for the seatbelt, airbag, and other seat controls?

Anyway, looks INCREDIBLE. Glad you made this upgrade. =)

aznbo187

iTrader: (1)

What type of ride are you looking for?

There are limited options to bolt on kits.

Full coilovers we are limited to H&R Coil over, Tein Basic and Tein Super-streets.
With springs there are H&R Sport/race, Tein S-tech/h-tech, progress, eibach, comptech, and swift.
The only shocks out are Koni's, and the Neuspeed version of the Koni's.

If you are willing to go for an alternate route, you can always fit suspension of the 03+ V6 Accords. The only thing different is the top-hat for the front.

The Dougler

iTrader: (1)

why don't you remove the rear door handles, since they're aint no seats? you could also fix the rear windows in an up position and remove the regulators from the doors while your at it you could pull out the rear door liners and replace them with that fabric and foam. that's probably good for 10-15 lbs.

MOD EDIT:
All members, read POST #1 before posting. Failure to do so may result in a ban!