Meek32v6

iTrader: (7)

O_O! that Sound is so AMAZING!!

AckTL05

iTrader: (18)

Bugatti runs 10.4, I have seen Pauls build and for 10k he runs 11/12's. For an extra 6k he can fully build the engine and it'll run high 10's all day. So please enlighten me how 30k can't bring the TL into the 9/10's.

Paul is building a 750whp fully built twin turbo accord and he is a member here. I would say it's costing somewhere around 20k.

I said run with, not walk all over a Bugatti.

anx1300c

iTrader: (2)

First off, let's see an actual time slip or video of a TL running 11's, then we'll talk about how much more power is required to get a 3700 lb with driver TL to trap 143-148 mph.

TheChamp531

iTrader: (3)

I'm not sure the difference between the 3G TL and the 7G Accord, but I'm sure if Paul could build a 11 second TL at a big fraction of the price, he would have (or someone would've asked him). Lets just give kikazz the spotlight here. This is something no TL has done.

He's our first 500 WHP+ TL.

Imagine it in Innacurate's car.

Congrats Kikazz! What was the dollar amount for this so far?

I hate cars

Paul's build is impressive, I don't want to take anything away from him. But numbers are numbers. It doesn't matter how the power is made, 100hp more is 100hp more. I'm sure his hits full boost very quickly but there's a point where engine reliability is compromised with the boost coming in at too low of an rpm If the turbo TL is seeing boost at barely over 2,000rpm, there's really nothing that an be improved on without reliability issues. Try and bring the boost in at 1,500rpm and you'll be picking up your rods off the ground.
Those are impressive numbers for low boost. But Paul has a bigger engine and I have to assume ported heads and larger cams to get those numbers from the lower boost, not to mention the M90 eats up at least 50hp before it ever gets to the wheels. It's not as easy as just turning the boost up. More than likely even with the M90 it will be extremely inefficient at those boost levels. It's not a 1 to 1 ratio. The turbo is almost that simple. It will remain efficient well into the mid 20psi range and beyond.

I look at this turbo TL as having a very conservative tune. No meth (I think), pump gas, and tuned for 0 knock. I'll guarantee there's 100hp left on the table with race gas.

You can't compare cost when one guy does his own work and one guy pays someone to do it. Add labor and the custom fabrication into Paul's build, the stuff he did himself and see what it would cost to the average person that has to pay someone to do it.
I agree it's almost weird the way he hooks but turbo power is usually a little softer than supercharged power. If it takes even half a second for the turbo to spool, that takes a lot of the shock off the drivetrain. Then you have suspension, tires, mounts, etc that all make a huge difference. It's like I said with my car. 602rwhp and barely 3,000lbs. On regular street tires I can spin at 75mph on the freeway. Put it on slicks at the track and I launch it full throttle for everything it's worth and no spin. The point being, setup makes all the difference. I'm sure Kikazz could make it spin in third gear. Power shift it and it's probably going to spin. Get it spinning real good in second gear and shift to third and I'll guarantee with 560hp it's going to spin until he lets off the gas. I have a friend with a 944 turbo that loves to attempt to show off by revving the piss out of it and dumping the clutch while he's rolling along at 35mph in second gear. Sure, it breaks the tires free but it's not a car that I consider able to easily break the tires free in second gear. The other thing to consider is that wheel spin and the wheel hop that goes along with it breaks stuff. And it's generally a bad idea to stick a turbo car on the rev limiter while under load. Or in other words, it might not have been his intention to see how much wheelspin he could produce.
That's the thing, we already know what they would do, seeing the car makes no difference. 100hp difference is huge and I'm guessing the torque difference is even greater. Take a stock Tl and put it up against a stock Vette. You wouldn't wonder what the outcome would be based on the TL having overhead cams and more valves, or the Vette spinning less, would you?

I know Paul's car is very quick and I love all of the custom work he's done. I just don't think it would be a close race with this turbo TL. I'm not trying to sound like a jerk to you or Paul.

I would love to see both cars hit the track to leave nothing open for debate but it seems hardly anyone does that around here. Personally bench racing based on numbers was something that you did all winter until the track opened up and then you settle it.


Now you're getting crazy. Where has Paul ever run an 11 or a 12 second 1/4?

Have you ever seen how much of a gap there is between a low 11 second and a mid 10 second car? It's a huge difference.

Paul is in the process of building a 750whp that has not put down any numbers yet. Not only is the hp a guess but you're guessing on the cost too.


You make it sound like it's so easy to go out and run a 10 second 1/4 as long as the power is there. Trust me, even if you have 10 second power you will be lucky to run that number in the first 30 passes. There is so much time and research and parts breakage devoted to that number. As I've said many times, my first night out in my "10 second" combo netted me a handful of 12s.

I hope Paul hits his target hp and ET but I think at this point you speaking for him is not doing any good.

I hate cars

Agreed. I should not have gotten into the debate. This is about a milestone and it should be celebrated, not argued over.

AckTL05

iTrader: (18)

I agree. I didn't mean to start a debate but without debate/Rodney/paul and other builders of TL's that are out there, we wouldn't be where we are today. We have come along way and I would love to see this car, but at a certain point (as 04accordcoupe said) too much power is just useless. I assume kickazz just put this into the motor, but what does it have for the drive terrain? Is he on stock axels? I guess we will soon to find out what is needed next or what this J series is capable of.

I agree we should put the spot light on him, but I would like to know the longitivity and what else has to be upgraded with this power. Like you said before and I agree, to get into the 10 second range it takes a lot but most of anyones races are on the road from a roll anyway so technically track numbers really aren't key for me unless its a true drag car.

I am not on one side or the other. I just like to compare and contrast things and seeing that its done I want to congratulate him but with this power/success it doesn't stop there. Look what liberts been through. Once you touch a car its an endless task to match up what is the best combination of parts since there are millions of combinations out there.

Kickazz, please update us with your progress because out of so many TURBO TL's I have seen (here and outside of ACURAZINE), libert seems to be the only one that is updating us on his endeavors and journey with owning a turbo TL which is what we need.

Nothing on Rodney and the other guys, but it would be nice to see some follow ups/ videos and other information about what's going on.

kikazz

Thanks again for ur interest, guys! I gave the car a little beating on the weekend and so far so good; Rodney was right - u cant break axles on these cars no matter how hard u try and believe me i tried very hard for the past 2 days to push the car meaning the axles are not an issue at this horsepower level. The car drives fantastic; i will update you guys with the dyno videos as soon as my friend emails me all the videos he took on that day.
As far as racing the car on the streets; i raced 2010 M6 yesterday and i simply put at least four or five cars on him in a third gear; the guy was so embarrassed that at the next light he didnt even slow down and kept going; in other words the car is insanely fast; if everything stays the way it is now meaning if nothing breaks in the nearest future we might be thinking of raising that psi to 20 which should give us at least 600-620 rwp; and that should be a little bit more fun i think

TheChamp531

iTrader: (3)

You mean FWD or WHP?

Damn wanna trade cars?

bmeyer

iTrader: (3)

Some of us just prefer to not divulge every last tidbit to the entire world. Privacy is a precious commodity on the 'net. That being said though, there have been plenty of posts with current state and short-term plans of many of the turbo guys. Another thing is that there just isn't that much to report on at the moment. Most of us are waiting on the new ECU and clutch setup.

Souljah

Holy shit.

KN_TL

iTrader: (3)

Hmmmm, what kind of updates are you looking for? My ride has been in mothballs for 5 months. I am waiting for the ECU and clutch to ship along with getting new tires for my Aspec wheels, installing the Tein SS suspension w/EDFC and rebuilding my exhaust with 304 stainless. Once the build is done or almost done, I figured the little additions were not interesting.

To me, it's like buying Enzyte and telling everyone my shlong stood up and grew 1/4".

I hate cars

That's funny. You're going to find lots of people will stop 5 cars back from a light or slam on the brakes and turn off as quickly as possible. I can't wait to hear what happens when you get a hold of your first Vette. Some of those guys get outright pissed.

anx1300c

iTrader: (2)

See, embarrassing six figure M cars is what makes this totally worth the price of admission. The fact that the M6 driver (who in all probability couldn't find his engine's oil dipstick if his life depended on it) will be left scratching his head and lamenting to his understandably skeptical BMW buddies about the Acura TL that flat out walked away from him on the highway is just priceless.

TLdream

iTrader: (4)

Thats what i have been saying about the axels. In the other thread it was brought up that people were breaking axels on stock hp. I have been beeting mine up trying to break them, and cant do it. I have pulled a couple 1.8 60's on them, dumping the clutch, slamming gears, and nothing wants to break yet.

Ohh and kikazz if you do arrange a race or want to take it to the track let me know, and i will send you some wheels and tires to use.

Joneill44

congrats on everything cant wait for the dyno vid

InFaMouSLink

iTrader: (10)

Congrats. The videos sound amazing!

Slpr04UA6

Congrats Kikazz! Like everyone else, always in for some vids from drivers perspective!


Congrats also to JandR Turbo! Thanks Rodney!

bmeyer

iTrader: (3)

AtlM5

You do realize veyrons put down closer to 1400whp right? And I would like to know what kind of dyno the runs were on for this BEAST TL?

libert69

iTrader: (7)

kikazz is also using 95a innovative mounts which is certainly helping his axles. glad i upgraded to 95a this time around since i warped the 85a with only 400 to the wheels

bmeyer

iTrader: (3)

Dude, seriously, chill on the dyno brand comments. You're starting to sound like a broken record. Do the math... anyway you look at it, for the displacement, C/R and levels of boost the numbers are pretty much spot-on. This isn't a numbers competition and the brand really isn't going to tell you any more about how the car behaves in the real world (especially since dynos can be calibrated to read high or low and often vary from shop to shop on the same brands).

AtlM5

^wow. cool dude. Regardless, generally speaking mustang dynos will read around the same and dynojets will read around the same as other dynojets. If the dyno runs werent on one of those im not gonna be able to compare it to anything and the dyno is pointless except to see that he is making more power than stock. Dynojets read about 10-15%higher than mustangs and all others read 10-15+% higher than dynojets pretty much so all I was doing was asking but I still havent gotten an answer.

Hi speed

iTrader: (3)

My reason for not updating on my turbo progress is mostly because of the D bag comments/ suggestions from members of the forum. I have a lot of $$$ and time in this car and don't need someone with an Aspec kit sharing their doubts about my build. Another factor is the legality of the setup and chance of the car or parts being stolen. I love watching videos, but you are just asking for local law enforcement to impound your car or someone to steal it. I too am waiting on the ECU but you will never see videos or even pics of my car, because I don't need the trouble and have nothing to gain from it. I am happy to post build info but any more is asking for trouble. On another note I am super excited about the power levels achieved and wish him luck with keeping it together.

TheChamp531

iTrader: (3)

So youre telling me that the car has 300 more wheel horsepower than at the crank? Lol

I hate cars

If it makes 1100 at the crank, it might put down 800 to the wheels especially being awd. 1,400 at the wheels would require nearly 2,000hp at the crank. Sounds a little fishy or the Bugatti is the most underrated car of all time.

I hate cars

Your avatar looks like an unnecessary display of power ticket waiting to happen lol. I've had a few of those.

You are correct, especially in CA that they do watch that stuff especially if there are any problems in your area. It has been used against people before as I'm sure you already know.

libert69

iTrader: (7)

it was a dynojet

AckTL05

iTrader: (18)

I understand about the Dbag comments but they come with success. Little updates I was talking about because everyone knows you have one but just complications and what you had to tweak/what broke and so on. Possible recent kills and such. It would be very hard to prove that it was "you" who was on the video unless you say a name and such. The law is very powerful, but on the contrary its very hard to prove against someone unless it has "concrete evidence". Its kinda screwed up because just like when rims get stolen and you have "evidence" that they are yours, they don't do anything unless you have your name etched in them or a video of that actual person stealing them.

IHC, his car is black and the one in the picture is anthracite but yes that would be very bad to upload that lol.

About the bugatti comment, its a fast car and it would pull on the TL past 140MPH, but AWD from a roll eats up a lot of power. I never said it would go crazy on it but it would give it a good race. HP numbers mean nothing. Weight/aero dynamics/CR/tune/set up/driver...there are so many factors and just because its rated at 10.4 at the track remember its AWD so from a roll I would be surprised if it ran high 10's which this TL should give it a run for its money. Anyone can buy a car out of the box like the new Mustang CobraJET that runs low 9's, but to build something like this is priceless.

Sonnick

First off, kickazz AWESOME numbers man! You have to feel great about that. I have yet to see the videos because I'm at work, but will do once I get home! PS: at the M6. You may leave a C6 Z06 wondering why a TL is right next to him! Btw, in for speedo vids

Rodney, hats off to you man. Great job with the tune and I'm sure you are VERY proud of these numbers.

AtlM5: 560whp on ANY dyno is a sh1tload of power. Btw, generally speaking, DynoJets read higher than most dynos (besides Dynapack). However, it's not uncommon to see Dynojets reading the same numbers as a Mustang. I had a buddy dyno on a Mustang and then on a Dynojet the same day, and dyno 15% less on the Dynojet. (The same Dynojet I used :cough cough: )

Dyno's are being mistaken for their intended use more recently than ever. They should be used as a tuning tool first, then as a "OMG look at my numbers" second. However, this isn't just a bolt on TL posting numbers, it's turbo! Everyone wanted to know what it was going to produce, and it actually PRODUCED. That's the best thing about it. They both came through with it. for that.
I lol'd at this.

Jcali2121

KABBOOOOMMMM lol j/k

phee

iTrader: (5)

at atlm5

ProbyOne

I'm enjoying reading about this TL build and all... but comparing to a Veyron?

In current form (this TL build) it would be completely left in the dust in every conceivable race format (1/4 mile, 100-200kph, 60-130, etc.)

Lets see some 60-130 times from the OP before this sort of talk

Forcefed 3

The M6 doesn't have a dipstick...

TheChamp531

iTrader: (3)

Yeah I know, but the Veyron only has 1006-1020 bhp. He says the car has 1400 WHP. :/

crazyasiantl

iTrader: (7)

good god. this is epic

TylerT

iTrader: (1)

Enough with the Veyron nonsense .

Incredible build, giving every J series owner boners right now.

anx1300c

iTrader: (2)

Ok, poor analogy, but try to see the forest for the trees.

And the Super Sport has 1200 bhp, but regardless, all this Veyron talk is straight nonsense. A TL would need ~850 whp to hang with a standard Veyron from a roll, and 950 whp to hang with the Super Sport.

I hate cars

AWD actually hinders it's 1/4 mile performance once you're making serious power. It traps 142mph which is a legit 10 second car. In fact, that's 9 second mph on tire. AWD or whatever, it traps 142mph. The Veyron will pull from a roll like a high 9 second car.

It really is a simple matter of math. This turbo TL assuming it's full weight should go high 11s in the low 120mph range. It's a long way off from low 10s at 142mph. Even an Accord with a few lbs taken off weighing in at 3200lbs making 750hp will go 10.6-10.7 at around 139mph with a decent but typical FWD 60'.

Here I go again taking about this stuff that's really not important at all. I can't wait to see this turbo TL make it's first 11 second pass if he chooses to take it to the track one day.

I hate cars

Lol. I was agreeing with you. That's what I get for trying to post while I'm half asleep.