J30a5 dyno (Me)
05-01-2012, 04:55 PM
#41
All motor
Thread Starter
No chip!! Just raw, untuned power. 270/235
05-01-2012, 05:51 PM
#42
Three Wheelin'
high hp cars are rwd or awd.... They're going to have a greater drivetrain loss than fwd cars.
You cannot apply percentage to drivetrain loss.
Why would a higher hp car have a greater loss than one with less hp, when both are driving the same drivetrain.... Take 2 identical cars
05-01-2012, 08:15 PM
#48
Suzuka Master
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just think about it.
high hp cars are rwd or awd.... They're going to have a greater drivetrain loss than fwd cars.
You cannot apply percentage to drivetrain loss.
Why would a higher hp car have a greater loss than one with less hp, when both are driving the same drivetrain.... Take 2 identical cars
high hp cars are rwd or awd.... They're going to have a greater drivetrain loss than fwd cars.
You cannot apply percentage to drivetrain loss.
Why would a higher hp car have a greater loss than one with less hp, when both are driving the same drivetrain.... Take 2 identical cars
I'm not sure how this got started though? I was talking about the difference between SAE and STD dynos.
05-03-2012, 03:12 PM
#49
All motor
Thread Starter
^ Lol. I'm probably gonna try to go to Island Drag soon, Anx. Would you be down? Maybe we could schedule something at some point so we can get a few members to go at the same time. Would be pretty cool. I'd love to rent out the track for a day, hmm.....
05-03-2012, 03:33 PM
#50
Three Wheelin'
The one in jersey? if so, ive been there a few times in the past....I WILL NOT RUN MY CAR lol... I'm afraid to blow up the transmission...ive had enough of it already.... but keep me in the loop, i could still take a ride if its on a weekend. Its been a few years since I last went
05-03-2012, 03:53 PM
#51
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Ok, Opel, say a 250 bhp car puts down 220 whp. 30 horsepower loss, right?
What if you had a puny 30 horsepower engine? or 20 horsepower? Would it put down 0 whp?
What if you had a puny 30 horsepower engine? or 20 horsepower? Would it put down 0 whp?
05-03-2012, 04:05 PM
#52
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Thread Starter
The one in jersey? if so, ive been there a few times in the past....I WILL NOT RUN MY CAR lol... I'm afraid to blow up the transmission...ive had enough of it already.... but keep me in the loop, i could still take a ride if its on a weekend. Its been a few years since I last went
Read below about drivetrain loss. I didn't read the whole article, but he said that it varies from car to car. There is no 'set' number or % that can be applied to every car. However, I'm almost 100% sure that a 1000hp car will lose more than a 200hp car on the dyno.
http://www.modified.com/tech/modp-10...s/viewall.html
05-03-2012, 04:33 PM
#53
Three Wheelin'
Possibly stall instantly! lol
Sounds good man.
Read below about drivetrain loss. I didn't read the whole article, but he said that it varies from car to car. There is no 'set' number or % that can be applied to every car. However, I'm almost 100% sure that a 1000hp car will lose more than a 200hp car on the dyno.
http://www.modified.com/tech/modp-10...s/viewall.html
Read below about drivetrain loss. I didn't read the whole article, but he said that it varies from car to car. There is no 'set' number or % that can be applied to every car. However, I'm almost 100% sure that a 1000hp car will lose more than a 200hp car on the dyno.
http://www.modified.com/tech/modp-10...s/viewall.html
Its what I've been saying...theres no set number and no % that you can apply. It just doesn't make any sense.
You can however, dyno a stock TL, whatever whp it puts out, get the difference from bph, convert it in %, and you can on an average say that all stock TL's have a , say 13% drivetrain loss.
It does vary from car to car, not every car's transmission, driveshaft, brake discs, wheels is the same. Those are all things that need to be driven and add loss to your output by the time it reaches the ground. But if my car and yours are built the same way, with same trans, but you have 300bhp more than me, why would you encounter a greater loss?
A rwd will have greater loss than a fwd, and a awd greater than rwd, i think we can agree on this.
1000hp car...you're thinking of the buggati. In factory form, look at its drivetrain, find out where all that power is being lost. Dig up info on the drivetrain. BTW, that car looks ugly in my eyes lol
Would you say that a known built 1000bhp supra (without knowing actual whp) is losing just as much? if In fact, for example, they only have an average of 60-70 hp loss in stock form?
I gotta run, but will be back later
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justnspace (05-03-2012)
05-03-2012, 05:10 PM
#54
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from reading on this site the rule of thumb is, MT lose around 12-15% and AT's lose 22-25%
the stock Base MT is rated at 258 and puts down only 220-ish stock which is 15% loss
type S 6MT which is rated at 286 and puts down 250-ish stock which is 13% loss
base AT is rated at 258 an puts down ~25 which is 22% loss
similarly type S AT is rated at 286 and puts down 230-ish which is 22% loss
i hope this is what you were asking !!!
the stock Base MT is rated at 258 and puts down only 220-ish stock which is 15% loss
type S 6MT which is rated at 286 and puts down 250-ish stock which is 13% loss
base AT is rated at 258 an puts down ~25 which is 22% loss
similarly type S AT is rated at 286 and puts down 230-ish which is 22% loss
i hope this is what you were asking !!!
05-03-2012, 06:39 PM
#55
Three Wheelin'
from reading on this site the rule of thumb is, MT lose around 12-15% and AT's lose 22-25%
the stock Base MT is rated at 258 and puts down only 220-ish stock which is 15% loss
type S 6MT which is rated at 286 and puts down 250-ish stock which is 13% loss
base AT is rated at 258 an puts down ~25 which is 22% loss
similarly type S AT is rated at 286 and puts down 230-ish which is 22% loss
i hope this is what you were asking !!!
the stock Base MT is rated at 258 and puts down only 220-ish stock which is 15% loss
type S 6MT which is rated at 286 and puts down 250-ish stock which is 13% loss
base AT is rated at 258 an puts down ~25 which is 22% loss
similarly type S AT is rated at 286 and puts down 230-ish which is 22% loss
i hope this is what you were asking !!!
Some just tend to apply a certain percentage to every car out there.
If I told you my TL puts out 400 bhp, you can't just say i get about 340 whp, only because stock TLs are known to lose about 15% of stock rated power, which equals to about 230 whp, from a 28hp loss, as you mentioned.
It wold mean mine loses 60hp.....but why? lol....
So yes, this is what we're discussing.
BTW, thanks for the numbers....Ive been away for so long, Ive started to forget a lot of things about our cars, such as what you mentioned
05-04-2012, 12:13 AM
#56
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^^^ dude you need to get on here more often like you have been !!!
i really enjoy your company and post !!! no homo...
i really enjoy your company and post !!! no homo...
05-23-2012, 03:11 PM
#57
All motor
Thread Starter
Ok so.............considering I don't have a TL and already have made this thread, I'm going to dub this my 'build' thread. I'm not doing any 3.x swaps or anything like that, but my future updates will be added here. And I have 1 
The fcuk?
Alas, the 2009 3.7L manifold/TB & ported runners (courtesy of thisaznboi). The TB has been sent to Maxbore who return shipped yesterday, so I should be getting it tomorrow. I'm going away for the weekend and may ask my friend to put it inside or something.
My buddy and I will be installing everything within the next few weeks. Expect the 'after' dyno by July 4th. My 'baseline' numbers were 256/222 SAE. I expect 270/235 SAE with most of the gains coming after 4K. I also expect my peak HP to be higher in the powerband, hopefully close to redline. That's all for now. Shortly after this I'm hoping to get a larger intake since this TB is already larger than the tubing lol.
The fcuk?
Alas, the 2009 3.7L manifold/TB & ported runners (courtesy of thisaznboi). The TB has been sent to Maxbore who return shipped yesterday, so I should be getting it tomorrow. I'm going away for the weekend and may ask my friend to put it inside or something.
My buddy and I will be installing everything within the next few weeks. Expect the 'after' dyno by July 4th. My 'baseline' numbers were 256/222 SAE. I expect 270/235 SAE with most of the gains coming after 4K. I also expect my peak HP to be higher in the powerband, hopefully close to redline. That's all for now. Shortly after this I'm hoping to get a larger intake since this TB is already larger than the tubing lol.
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Inaccurate (05-23-2012)
05-23-2012, 03:28 PM
#58
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^^^ I think the most gains you will see AFTER the bigger intake...
also before you put the runners and manifold and TB in....make sure you measure it (port diameters) as i said in the PM
also before you put the runners and manifold and TB in....make sure you measure it (port diameters) as i said in the PM
05-23-2012, 03:36 PM
#59
Three Wheelin'
Also post the difference between head intake ports and the runners after your runners are ported. Ive had the heads in my hands so many times, never measured a thing lol. I get too caught up in wanting to close everything up ASAP
05-23-2012, 03:43 PM
#60
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^^^ 
but yeah stock runners (manifold side) measures 44mm
stock manifold runners side measures 44mm
with the 2012 SHAWD manifold and TB that i installed:
TB polished: Intake side 80mm
TB polished: Manifold side 71mm
Manifold ported and polished: TB side (think it was 75mm)
Manifold ported and polished: Runners side 45mm
Runners ported and polished: Manifold side 45mm
Runners ONLY polished: Heads side (its kinda oval so didnt measure....) but yeah the heads side was left stock to avoid a lip and hence turbulence....
but yeah stock runners (manifold side) measures 44mm
stock manifold runners side measures 44mm
with the 2012 SHAWD manifold and TB that i installed:
TB polished: Intake side 80mm
TB polished: Manifold side 71mm
Manifold ported and polished: TB side (think it was 75mm)
Manifold ported and polished: Runners side 45mm
Runners ported and polished: Manifold side 45mm
Runners ONLY polished: Heads side (its kinda oval so didnt measure....) but yeah the heads side was left stock to avoid a lip and hence turbulence....
05-23-2012, 03:48 PM
#61
All motor
Thread Starter
^ The 'head port' side of the runners was not ported, only on the intake manifold side, and barely at that. I will measure tonight Swoosh. And I agree, after a larger intake I think the gains will really come alive.
05-23-2012, 03:50 PM
#62
All motor
Thread Starter
Thisaznboi sent me a pic when he measured the stock runners, it was like 41.81mm. I don't have that tool, but I do have a ruler I measured the lower portion of the 3.7 intake manifold and it was just over 42mm.
EDIT: The manifold opening seemed to be 75 or 76mm as well. I'll post pictures later of both the intake manifold openings and the runners too.
I measured the lower portion of the 3.7 intake manifold and it was just over 42mm.EDIT: The manifold opening seemed to be 75 or 76mm as well. I'll post pictures later of both the intake manifold openings and the runners too.
Last edited by Sonnick; 05-23-2012 at 03:58 PM.
05-23-2012, 04:18 PM
#63
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^^^ no way in hell they are 41mm....
i used a scale as well and the diameter (opening) stock came to 43.xxmm and 45.xxmm after pnp...
i used a scale as well and the diameter (opening) stock came to 43.xxmm and 45.xxmm after pnp...
05-23-2012, 09:17 PM
#64
All motor
Thread Starter
So I'll post pics later but, I measured my ported runners and lower intake manifold on the 3.7. The manifold measured 42mm while the runners measured 44mm. So I'd have to assume that stock are 42mm, like the picture thisaznboi sent me in a PM. He measured it with that tool (whatever it's called) in the pic. And the neck of the manifold measured in at 76mm
Now, should I be concerned that the runners are slightly larger than the lower manifold ports? I'm debating getting the lower part of the manifold ported now, but that will probably be $$$ and they may have to take it apart since it's a 2 piece manifold. I'd rather not risk that. Any thoughts?
Now, should I be concerned that the runners are slightly larger than the lower manifold ports? I'm debating getting the lower part of the manifold ported now, but that will probably be $$$ and they may have to take it apart since it's a 2 piece manifold. I'd rather not risk that. Any thoughts?
05-24-2012, 09:04 AM
#66
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So I'll post pics later but, I measured my ported runners and lower intake manifold on the 3.7. The manifold measured 42mm while the runners measured 44mm. So I'd have to assume that stock are 42mm, like the picture thisaznboi sent me in a PM. He measured it with that tool (whatever it's called) in the pic. And the neck of the manifold measured in at 76mm
Now, should I be concerned that the runners are slightly larger than the lower manifold ports? I'm debating getting the lower part of the manifold ported now, but that will probably be $$$ and they may have to take it apart since it's a 2 piece manifold. I'd rather not risk that. Any thoughts?
Now, should I be concerned that the runners are slightly larger than the lower manifold ports? I'm debating getting the lower part of the manifold ported now, but that will probably be $$$ and they may have to take it apart since it's a 2 piece manifold. I'd rather not risk that. Any thoughts?
2> I think the mouth of the runners are nice and open and the inside they get skinny....hence the mouth would be 44 (when i measured stock) and inside they would be 42....which could be the case....i do not have a vernier caliper or some to measure....i use AN EYE and a scale
3> you will not have to take the manifold apart....i tried to and they have some serious glue in there LOL....so i didnt mess with it much....just take it to a shop (or pick up a dremel) and go at it....you want all the join points to sit very flush without a lip....
just remember if say the manifold is 45mm and the runners are 42mm (just saying) there will be a lip and hence turbulence.....on the other hand if the manifold is 42mm and the runners are 45, you should not have toooo much to worry about it.....
PS where did you get the TB and manifold from ?
i will be saying the same if you do the build before me LOL....since you will be doing my build
from the looks of it, you will prolly do it before I will....and then my ass will be calling you for advice LOL
05-24-2012, 11:02 AM
#67
Suzuka Master
iTrader: (2)
I'm confused, Sonnick. Did you get the 3.7 manifold or have your stock TB bored along with the runners?
If it's just the TB/runners I doubt you'll get anywhere close to 14 whp. Car guys like us can feel 14whp and I sure didn't feel that.
EDIT: Ok, I just re-read and I guess you did get the whole 3.7 setup! I thought you were just posting someone else's pics. I hope you get good gains!
If it's just the TB/runners I doubt you'll get anywhere close to 14 whp. Car guys like us can feel 14whp and I sure didn't feel that.
EDIT: Ok, I just re-read and I guess you did get the whole 3.7 setup! I thought you were just posting someone else's pics. I hope you get good gains!
Last edited by anx1300c; 05-24-2012 at 11:04 AM.
05-24-2012, 07:31 PM
#68
Banned
i will be saying the same if you do the build before me LOL....since you will be doing my build
from the looks of it, you will prolly do it before I will....and then my ass will be calling you for advice LOL[/QUOTE]
haha
i will TRY my very best to finish this by the end of this year if not early next year. and i will do my best to give you all information and pics as i go along
from the looks of it, you will prolly do it before I will....and then my ass will be calling you for advice LOL[/QUOTE]
haha
i will TRY my very best to finish this by the end of this year if not early next year. and i will do my best to give you all information and pics as i go along
05-24-2012, 11:11 PM
#69
Suzuka Master
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That's a major haul for me man! I haven't been down to Jersey in awhile for work; then it would be doable. Whatever happened to Lebanon Valley? We should still do that soon with Boston, Franchise and that guy from Schenectady!
from reading on this site the rule of thumb is, MT lose around 12-15% and AT's lose 22-25%
the stock Base MT is rated at 258 and puts down only 220-ish stock which is 15% loss
type S 6MT which is rated at 286 and puts down 250-ish stock which is 13% loss
base AT is rated at 258 an puts down ~25 which is 22% loss
similarly type S AT is rated at 286 and puts down 230-ish which is 22% loss
i hope this is what you were asking !!!
the stock Base MT is rated at 258 and puts down only 220-ish stock which is 15% loss
type S 6MT which is rated at 286 and puts down 250-ish stock which is 13% loss
base AT is rated at 258 an puts down ~25 which is 22% loss
similarly type S AT is rated at 286 and puts down 230-ish which is 22% loss
i hope this is what you were asking !!!
And Sonnick, what do you think about me doing just the 3.7 IM and using my oem Max bored TB with P2R's adapter? This guy with a CL-S got 6+ whp/ 5+ tq with it, but he also added a bored TB at the time, so I'm not sure which contributed more. I figure I can get the IM, cover, P2R adapter for ~ $450. I really want to get a new J-Pipe first, since my flex portion is on borrowed time, but I'm still waiting patiently to see what Marcus is going to spring on us with the new ATLP pipe.
https://acurazine.com/forums/2g-cl-photograph-gallery-53/my-build-thread-bordering-more-bs-56k-beware-769245/
05-24-2012, 11:34 PM
#70
Suzuka Master
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If I'm not mistaken, the J30's rating actually increased under the new SAE standards to 244 bhp in '06, where as the J32 decreased to 258 bhp. That makes the 5 whp difference from TOV's dyno runs make more sense, especially considering the Accord had 16's instead of 17's and narrower tires as well. The lighter wheels/tires were likely worth a few whp.
05-25-2012, 11:15 AM
#71
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^^^ lol you sure ??? sharky in his type S recently dynoed at 186/158
05-26-2012, 02:50 AM
#73
Burning Brakes
@ anx1300...still down for that lebanon valley run.....just give us Mass folks a heads up so we can have enough time to plan accordindly!!
05-26-2012, 08:11 AM
#74
i really need to get the intake manifold/tb setup.. or at least a mag manifold. And do a 3" exhaust.. stupid restrictive borla.
05-26-2012, 10:36 AM
#75
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btw I dont know where you guys are ordering all the stuff from....
I know Tim @ OEMAcuraParts will HOOK U UP !!!
check out this thread:
https://acurazine.com/forums/3g-tl-2004-2008-93/coupon-code-called-swoosh-more-coupon-codes-added-8-15-12-a-858266/
I know Tim @ OEMAcuraParts will HOOK U UP !!!
check out this thread:
https://acurazine.com/forums/3g-tl-2004-2008-93/coupon-code-called-swoosh-more-coupon-codes-added-8-15-12-a-858266/
05-27-2012, 07:29 AM
#76
Senior Moderator
then i suggest u reinstall your IMRC butterflies ... looks pretty obvious to me comparing your two dynos that your low end torque is low to the point the butterflies would have been triggered to open...
http://public.fotki.com/typeR/typer/dsc00033.html#media
http://public.fotki.com/typeR/typer/dsc00033.html#media
05-27-2012, 09:02 AM
#77
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^^^ now that he has the SHAWD butterflies, he wudnt have to worry about that IMO....
05-27-2012, 11:51 AM
#78
Suzuka Master
iTrader: (2)
btw I dont know where you guys are ordering all the stuff from....
I know Tim @ OEMAcuraParts will HOOK U UP !!!
check out this thread:
https://acurazine.com/forums/showthread.php?t=858266
I know Tim @ OEMAcuraParts will HOOK U UP !!!
check out this thread:
https://acurazine.com/forums/showthread.php?t=858266
So how much am I looking at for the dull setup with the discount? I'm in no rush; I want to see Sonnick's gains first!
Last edited by anx1300c; 05-27-2012 at 11:54 AM.
05-27-2012, 01:32 PM
#79
Senior Moderator
05-27-2012, 03:53 PM
#80
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Will do! I believe their T&T is on Wednesdays, so I'll need to take a day off.
Is the Borla that restrictive?
Thanks for the hook-up, Swoosh. After doing some more reading on V6 performance.n*t , it looks like using my bored oem TB with the 3.7 mag manifold is a no-go. The P2R adapter is evidently only for bolting the 3.7 TB to our oem manifold.
So how much am I looking at for the dull setup with the discount? I'm in no rush; I want to see Sonnick's gains first!
Is the Borla that restrictive?
Thanks for the hook-up, Swoosh. After doing some more reading on V6 performance.n*t , it looks like using my bored oem TB with the 3.7 mag manifold is a no-go. The P2R adapter is evidently only for bolting the 3.7 TB to our oem manifold.
So how much am I looking at for the dull setup with the discount? I'm in no rush; I want to see Sonnick's gains first!
the manifold/cover/TB/all the bolts + extra bolts ran me 800-ish....i ordered couple other things so am not sure exactly....i can look into the bill and let you know once i get back home....
no he got the new manifold right ? he had em deleted in the other manifold is how i understood.....
we need Sonnick in here for more clarification....