Great advice because I literally do this with even a stubborn bolt, I could spend 15-30 minutes on something, walk away, come back and get it within 30 seconds and go wtf!? I tell people all the time! Hope your not having anymore issues!

 

ILC - What's the latest news buddy? Everything going well over at KMS?

 

he picked up a 135i last night!! lol

 

No shit? Lol

 

quoted for truth from this morning. lol

 

yeah i did, lol. I got sick of not having a car and I always wanted a 135 so I said yeah i'm gonna go buy one of those now.

King called this morning and said the car is back on the dyno now that the cam gears are installed, and it is running better, less lumpy. Sounds more like it should lol. I will know more on the tuning later today. Fingers crossed.

I bought the 135 to be my new daily. Modbargains.com has the cobb v2 tune on sale for 700 bucks this week!

I may sell the TL when the project is complete, or I may keep it for a weekend/track car.

 

Hey, I should be buying one here soon too! ( I hope ) The one I've got lined up is modded to hell and back already. Practically turn key.

Extremely fun cars to drive. Especially when its over 400WHP and close in torque.

 

damn right. Mine just has the maddad exhaust, otherwise bone stock. Turbos and wastegate were replaced 14k miles ago at the dealership and the BMW extended warranty is still in place. It's a monster for sure. I'm gonna throw downpipes and a tune on as soon as the warranty expires lol.

Probably right in time for the turbos to start smoking again haha.

 

Grab the M steering wheel. It's soooo fcking sexy. Lol

 

135 is awesome. You can turn it into an 11 second car for less than you have into the TL and go hunting for Vettes and muscle cars. The looks on their faces will be priceless when they get spanked by a little "toy car".

I've got a feeling you're going to be liking your daily better than the TL!

 

yea the one I got has the M sport package and the premium package.

 

down pipe and a tune, im jealous. Nice new ride man. How are you liking the performance?

 

nvrdwn - can't go wrong man

King just called and it sounds like the TL is good to go. I will probably pick it up tomorrow.

The custom cam gears fixed my power loss below 3600 rpm so now the line on the dyno chart is identical to my last pull on stock cams up to 3600 - so i'm not losing anything.

Then it's gains all the way up after that. Power still starts to fall off at 6800 so we aren't raising the limiter - gonna do a test run at 7000 rpm this afternoon but not expecting much.

The cam gears also fixed the digger in my dyno chart between 6400-6800 where there was a 15 whp loss - with proper cam position and timing, it still isn't perfect but it smoothed out a ton and picked up 12 hp.

The misfire issues were a result of a bug in the live tuning tables with Hondata. We talked with Matt and Hondata to verify. Turned off live tuning and it all went great. No problems or codes.

I believe peak gains were 26/12 - definitely somewhat disappointed with those gains but I feel better because I have a 135 now to fall back on, lol.

 

26/12 for the whole thing? Damn...

Sell. Mod the hell out of the BMW. Lol

 

that's my plan, lol. My TL will probably be listed in the black market pretty soon, lol.

 

were those 26/12 gains with the ported heads, and cam uprages?

 

yes.

 

Wow. 26whp is definitely a nice gain, but definitely would be slightly down since you did sooo much to get that 26whp. Its crazy how much it takes to get power out of this motor.

 

Atlas got 25whp gain with heads only on a slipping clutch. So this puzzles me.

 

Whoa! That's insane. You should have just boosted from the get go.

Edit: Well he was fully bolted and had a lot done beforehand. Plus he is talking peak numbers, correct? What's the low and mid range gains like?

 

Also, I hope you still intend to write a nice post about cams and all that...

 

Isn't Atlas on a j30 ? I don't see it as valid to compare gains on heads between a j35 and a j30 - they are significantly different blocks.

I will definitely be doing a build thread. I do know that someone will be getting a very nice Type-S when I sell it. The gains from this project are disappointing but the overall power is still great on the car as far as TL's go.

 

whoa.. whoa.. whoa.. how much did you spend?

 

Trade me your heads plus $$$ before you sell

 

Congrats on the 135.

 

Why did I buy another TL again?

 

So what are peak numbers, around 320-325 whp? Not bad considering stock is around 250. I've been saying for a long time that a realistic expectation for an N/A FULL bolt on 6MT base with head work/cams/tune would be 300 max, and since the Type-S is around 25 whp higher stock, it seems about right. Some people on here have totally unrealistic expectations and consequently find themselves in a constant state of disappointment.

Lotta money to get to where you're at? Absolutely. But you're still 30% above factory power levels on the stock block, without FI, which isn't unremarkable. You'd never see those kinds of gains on an already highly maximized car like an e46 M3, so it puts into perspective.

BTW, if your buddy still has the e46, you need to get a video of you walking him before you sell it!

 

you are correct - don't get me wrong, as far as Tl's go yea it's quick. I was already dead even with stock 370's before this project. My TL is not slow by any means.

It's moreso the fact that I sunk 12k into this project which is annoying. I'm gonna try to sell the car for 20k, cut my losses and move on with the 135.

I budgeted 6-7k with an additional buffer of 2k which I don't think is unrealistic for a cam/head build, even on an unknown like the TL. Webcams really fucking screwed us bad because we had to go to great lengths to prove that a Stage 3 regrind requires custom cam gears to move the cam position back to where the car will not run like dog shit and put diggers in the dyno chart while losing massive power below 3600 rpm.

I gave up a summer with no car, which is more annoying to me than the money. That's why I bought the 135.

I'll give my buddy's e46 another run and bring my GoPro, though.

today peak numbers were 317/266

and you are right that there are a LOT of people who are way too optimistic about the gains. I expected closer to 35-40 whp gains, but nothing crazy. For me the bigger thing is that this project should NOT have cost as much as it did.

anyone who now went and had this work done would be able to spend a lot less because there is a lot more info available. Probably would cost half as much money for someone else's TL now.

 

no way brah, i'm selling my car built as it currently sits lol

 

well congrats on everything. had i not bought a 6MT TL a couple weeks ago, I would have strongly considered buying yours.

What kind of HP/tq gains can you get out of a 135 for say $4-5k? Comparing to the TL for what you would pay for jpipe, pcds, catback, and tune.

 

just for comparison. If you spend 12k on the car I would expect numbers like this car on v6p. Never the less you have provided a great pool of information. But damn all that money on the heads just for 26/12. Is there anything else that could have been done? I know for the accords most of the people mill the heads and that also contributes to additional power.

 

you realize that a DynaPack reads higher than a DynoJet, right? My car is being tuned on a DynoJet. That 330 would be more like 310 on my dyno.

and for reference my heads were milled 40 thou and are making 12:1 compression.


4-5k into a 135 would blow these gains on the TL out of the water. You can probably get a 135 to run high 11's in the 1/4 for that much money if you are doing raw horsepower mods and run e85

 

Just wondering how much do you need to mill to increase CR by 1?

 

For reference, a JB4 tune, dual cone intake, catless down pipes, larger intercooler and meth will make somewhere in the neighborhood of 430hp/460tq at the wheels, for somewhere in the neighborhood of $2500-3000.

Not sure what upgraded turbos cost, but then you're probably breaking the 500 barrier.

And in for GoPro of the M3 getting walked!

 

So wait.. your regrind is a stage 3???? So stage 3 is custom to your specs, web specs, or Bisi's specs ??? Those are good gains.



wasnt 25whp... was 20whp uncorrected and 13whp corrected. afr was also 14:1 during the pull so it was lean. My last dyno before the head work(ported/polished/milled, ported runners,TL-S valve springs and cams) and the removal of the milled mdx spacer was 233/203 if i remember right(been lots of dynos) My numbers with slipping clutch on a Mustang Dyno 253whp/206wtq uncorrected and the corrected numbers 246whp/200wtq. I always go by the SAE corrected numbers. Even when they are lower. Also cant remember if the last dyno before the heads if i had the P2R adapter/ZDX tb installed.



I agree. Cant compare my little J30 to the torque monster of the J35. I have plans to build a stroked/nitrous J eventually. Thats some time down the road.

Cant wait for your build thread.



Do you think the Stage 2 cams would have been less of a hassle then the Stage 3 cams? I know the whole ordeal was very frustrating for you. Wish there was more people doing cams for the j-series. I have the 3.5 TL-S but was thinking about doing a regrinds... but i have a set of j30a4 cams to get reground eventually.

I am hoping for around 25-35whp gains and 10-15wtq gains for all the top end work i did... still up in the air and im on the stock intake manifold (selling the p2r ported one i have.)




its kind of crazy how different the Dynapacks read compared to other dynos.. at my friends shop we had two turbo d16s that averaged 10+whp loss just from going from a another shops dynapack to his mustang dyno.

My compression got bumped up to 11:1 from the head milling.



God.. sorry for all the quotes and post. Now back to the cam discussion. Ken the dyno sheet you posted is Kiet J35 Accord that he just posted on instagram,facebook, and v6p like 2 days ago. He said he is still using the 3.5 cams and working on different intake setups now.

Also more on cam gears please ILC.

 

That's why I go custom turbo. Too much $$$ on an all motor set up.

 

@atlas.46 yup I know it was kiet stuff his j35 is a monster. Waiting for yungone hybrid j37

And damn only 13whp increase on the j30 after headswap? But than again slipping clutch . When a re u going to redyno?

 

Even with the 310 PEAK cfm that i_love_cars had, I think that there are 2 things that worked against him. First was the lack of an agressive duration on the cam. When you open jseries ports up they tend to lose cfm below the .300" mark, and so duration becomes important to regain that loss of flow by leaving the valve open for longer instead of a quick ramp up speed. Lift alone can only do so much, and since our intake ports (in hand-ported form) fall on their faces above .450" lift, you need to get every last bit of duration you can to make torque. Second was the nature of the cast-in exhaust manifold limiting cylinder clearing of exhaust gases which take a toll on combustion efficiency of the next cycle.

Jordan, your work has been excellent and is well appreciated, but this just goes to show how picky this motor is and truly how much trial and error there is, even for a shop who likely double checked every idea that they were given. All said, its still a job well done and I hope you do hold onto it. I think you'll enjoy it on the street once you're actually able to drive it. I know what kind of toll it took on me having my car down from May - end of July for the head swap. Congrats, man!

 

that is correct - if I do keep the car, I will definitely be looking at alternative cam profiles. I wanted something that wouldn't sacrifice OEM low-end power and I achieved that, but I also wanted something with a bit more up top. My results look good on the dyno chart, it makes good power early on in the power band - but I know there is room for more with the right cam, for sure.

I'll be picking the car up today and we'll see how it goes. Part of me wants to hang on to it just to have a backup for (when) my BMW breaks down, trololol.

Thanks for the perspective, Andy. It's always nice to have an additional voice of someone else who has sunk a lot of time and money into the J series like I have, lol I think you're right that driving it will be pretty sweet for what it is. I will reserve judgment until I get it on the road for a few days.

 

Anytime man. Thanks for your work