What was the deal in the Citizen's bank parking lot next to Discount tire in Concord. Looked like you were buying or selling an evo (switching plates)? I noticed as me and the family were leaving Steak and Shake...

 

If you check, roots blowers on the 3-valve mustangs are the worst performing type, pound for pound of boost. Even Roush's roots blower gets their ass handed to them by the Saleen/Whipple twin-screws. The roots dont have an aftercooler option as do the twin screws. Most efficient blower out there? At least for the mustangs, yes. I should've been more clear.

As for screws vs. roots, screw-type is pretty much an upgraded roots. Roots will pretty always have hotter discharge temps compared to a Screw-type. A twin-screw design that compresses air unlike Roots type superchargers which pump the air into the motor. Screw type superchargers have an axial-flow design that compresses the air as it moves between the screws to create positive pressure without creating the heat that Roots type superchargers can create.

As for reliability, i'd say the twin-screw is just as reliable as the roots, if not better. Unlike a roots supercharger, the rotors in a twin screw supercharger do not actually touch, so there are virtually no wearing parts. For this reason, twin-screw compressors are commonly used to pressurize cabins in passenger aircraft. Like roots superchargers, twin screw s/c's are self lubricated and do not tap into the engine's oil supply.

But you're at least right about one thing, the twin-screw is compressing air even when it is not sending boost to the engine (i.e. under cruising or deceleration), but thats why theres a bypass valve to release the pressurized air.

I'll take a twin-screw over a roots whenever possible, thank you.

 

Back on the subject, i cant help but still point out how there are going to be VERY SHARP bends in the piping.

One thing i like in this project is the NASA-grade thermal foil!

 

The hot pipe is 2 inch piping, and the cool one will be 2.25 into the intake manifold.

 

Oh haha, that was my buddies evo. He saw that i had a random falken tires license plate bracket, and i said merry christmas and gave it to him...so we were putting it on.

 

Unfortunately sharp bends are inevitable with the tight space inside the engine bay. The gold foil is good stuff.

 

I guess you mean hybrid roots? Roots blowers have no twist in their lobes. Eaton's are hybrid roots with helical cut lobes. Look I don't know your background but I can tell you that I have enough experience in superchargers to argue the fact that you are believing the internet and magazine BS. I have been a fly on the wall in rooms with Ford engineers giving out enough propretary information to make your head spin.

Twin screw blowers are just as I said, efficient at high blower rpms with high boost levels. At low boost levels they are terrible. I realize a bypass valve is there, it's built into most late model Eaton superchargers as well.

I have tested a KB supercharged T-Bird with 9-psi on the track at Englishtown. I datalogged the PCM and monitored the ACT's after the intercooler (air-to-water). Suprise...suprise the 1.7L twin screw blower with an intercooler produced 180 degree discharge temps at WOT in 11 seconds. Meanwhile, my Eaton M90S with 10-psi of boost and a smaller Spearco intercooler discharged only 150 degree F ACTs. This was on a 91 degrees F day.

OK...well most of the P/D blowers on the market are intercooled or aftercooled. The FRPP/SVO blower is the exception with the Eaton M112. Still there are guys running very well with the FRPP blower and no intercooler.

Not really. The HYBRID roots blower from Eaton realy doesn't compress much air in the housing. This is what makes it so efficient at low rpm and low boost levels. The compression of the air charge occurs after the lobes. Twin screws are compressing air all the time.


Not a true statement or blanket to cover yourself. I just showed you how the twin screw was hotter with less boost psi and a larger intercooler. You need to look at the efficiency range and then compare. At 12-psi a 1.7L Whipple will walk all over a Eaton M90. At 15-psi the Lysolm and Auto Rotor will win hands down vs the Eaton M112. However, for a stock 3.2L TL engine at 5-psi, the Eaton wins...no competition. At 5-psi and that blower rpm, the Eaton M62 is at 65% adiabatic efficiency. At 5-psi your twin screw would be pathetic and require a large intercooler.


.

I concur. Exactly...high blower rpm and high boost means the twin screw is a better design. Low blower rpm and lower boost levels means the hybrid roots from Eaton is more efficient. It's just the way it is.

Again not true. Whenever you compress air you will heat it. This is thermodynamics law. Any supercharger or turbocharger will heat the air charge, you cannot get around this. You believe whatever you want, but if you put any M112 blower at 8-psi against any twin screw blower at 8-psi. Same motor...same day...CONTROLLED TEST...you will always find the twin screw to have a hotter discharge temperature. Take the boost and blower rpms higher and there will be a change. The Eaton will fail to make more power as it becomes a restriction therefore the boost will not yield more power. I just don't get what you think is happeneing to the twin screw...the air is still being heated like the Eaton was.
Without an intercooler, you'll have lots of hot air, no spark and be highly knock constrained.

I would say the OEM car makers would disagree with you. I have seen both blowers fail for different reasons, but the early twin screws had bearing problems. It wasn't until about 4 years ago that Lysolm and Auto Rotor were able to get their act together.


Your OPINION is noted. Again in MHO, if you want a reliable P/D blower for the street with a stock engine and 5-8 psi if boost, go with an Eaton. If you need more boost and plan on building the engine to handle it, you need a twin screw.

Different strokes for different folks. There are guys running very decent numbers with both types of blowers.

A-Train

 

This, i can agree with upon. I can tell you this, some of my personal experiences can argue against your experiences AND agree with u. So i dont think its worth spending time going back and forth on it. I have tuned many supercharged 3-valve stangs and seen the CDT's/ACT's between the two blowers. Pound for pound, twin-screw just walks the FRPP/Roush. But like you said, different strokes, in this case, for different cars. Yes, the roots is fine on the TL. Heck, the roots have no problem running high boost for drag cars as well, ie. Top Fuel/funny cars.

I find twin-screws, on applications i've worked with, to have no problems making good power running sub 9psi. Some cars are not lucky enough to have options between types of blowers, like most Honda's for one.

I can also go on all day on the subject matter, but i have a feeling, in the end, we'll be saying the same thing but in a different language and preaching to the choir.

 

I thought for a minute we might get an evo vs. TL writeup. Thanks for the details. Good luck with the ongoing project. Wifey didn't want to stop otherwise I would have simply stopped and asked.

 

maybe it's been answered, but, what numbers did you put with the IC?

 

Right now its definitely just an interfooler. I've got to schedule one more appointment with the shop to complete the design.

 

sweet, this has been one lengthy process well for us readers and fans... can't wait till you finally get it bolted up

 

Lol, interfooler.

 

hahaha!! what up henryk.

...almost all of my friends are like..."dude, when did you turbo your car"!! I could so easily get away with it!

 

I know man, and i apologize for it being such a long and drawn out project, but most of my mods have been that way, and this one just happens to be the longest!! Probably because i'm scared to see the results.

 

Maybe you could add a few "photoshopped" pics into the mix and post it over on the NEW "Twin Turbo" thread. Just tell me you had to use a "specialized" CUSTOM tuning package because EManage just wasn't doing the job. That and a few swipes with Adobe ought to keep that thread in stiches for the next 2 months. If you do, I PROMISE I won't give the spoof away...

 

Don't be afraid. You are guarenteed to make power when running a fmic setup on a blower. Its hot as shit to begin with and just gets hotter and hotter the more you drive under boost. Even if you lose some boost, which you will pressure drop between all the piping and intercooler, the air will be so much more cooler it will be much more healthy on the car then hot ass air.

A guy on did some datalogging. Car went from high 100's, like 180 degree IAT's on the Eaton M62 to roughly 110 degrees IAT MAX, never went over 110 and it generally was around 90, and he was in Cali and posted those temps in the 80 degree weather. It did drop about 1.5psi but it runs SO much more efficiently and safely on the K20 that its worth the money. Just think about a Turbo w/o a front mount its the same results.

 

finish this already eric.

 

..done!



...seriously, i'm at a loss for words right now. Pictures of the piping later tonight. (the project is complete!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!)

 

^^ I suppose i could elaborate a little bit for the time being about what's been going on here...

Number one, the project is complete.
Number two, it's deemed a success.
Number three, my brother said when i gave him a run by he swears the car looks faster when i take off.
Number four, i'm super ecstatic.
Number five, I can't wait to test it out more after night class.

Comments on the install:-Went very smooth, no major dilemnas or barracades in terms of design and innovation.
-Fuse box was relocated under the strut bar to allow for more clearance.
-Intake filter sits in the engine bay as a short ram
-The custom cool pipe that runs into the intake manifold looks flawless with TIG welds, soon to be wrapped in the signature heat foil
-Map sensor from elbow was relocated to the custom pipe that runs into the manifold.
-7 hours of labor went into the custom piping, routing, and relocation.


Comments on the driveability aspect:
-To my surprise and relief, there is no surge from what i could tell during the 20 miles that i've driven the TL since the install.
-Seems to be putting down more power
-I tripped the mileage settings, and during the 60mph drive to the destination from the shop it was reading ~40mpg which is astounding. The highest i've gotten it to read under those conditions was 39mpg a long time ago.

Overall, i couldn't feel more relieved to know this design actually does work and could potentially have some beneficial gains when working in conjunction with the comptech supercharger.

 

OMG! I'm so excited! take lot of detailed pics of the setup. I'd like to do something like this. get a dyno asap

did you notice any drop in pressure? PSI still at 3.5-4?

 

Today was the most excited i've ever felt, aside from yesterday when i first saw the mooncraft on the brothers s2k. So yesterday and today have been overwhelming in the honda automotive history department.

I didn't monitor the boost gauge but the install guy, (Matt), told me he monitored it and with the hbp it looks to be running the same amount of boost, which is what we had hoped for.

Plethora of detailed pics to follow about 5 hours from now, so stay tuned.

 

Congrats Eric, Can't Wait To Go For A Spin After The Meet Sat Night

 

It's a done deal Vinny! ...looking forward to meeting up with you guys.

 

aaaaw man, now you need to change your "Spoon Sports ftw" to Spoon'n Coolin not Foolin

 

OH SNAP! Refreshing this page every 5 minutes.

 

i like that title...eric, cop that shit...haha. cant wait till friday nite son. Queen City here i come.

 

i heard through the grapevine that pics will be up within the hour...

 

god dam i wanna see pics too, i'm a little late comming into this thread but i'm kinda glad i just came into it seeing as though it was started in 2006.....haha but glad to see i got here just in time to catch up on the whole year and a half of posts!!!

 

haha if you guys are lucky! This is fairly monumental here. Truly custom, truly a debate-able modification.

A good amount of credit goes out to teinCL for assisting with the early stages of the project.



....heading to the garage to take pics.

 

...i might just change it to that!

 

Before i post these pics I would like to apologize for keeping everyone in suspense. As we've been following the concept/idea of this setup being worthy of any gains, or even functioning at all, we now have some truth behind the matter. The system works, whether is efficient or not is another story that will be found with test and tunes. Without further ado, I will now release one of the most challenging and innovative project yet, the FMIC completion photos! Please enjoy the images.

 

WOW!
That is saweeet

 

did you modify ANYTHING on the supercharger? and where did you put that tiny tube that goes from the black round thing with the warning on it to the spacer nea the intake manifold inlet?

 

Amazing

 

speechless...thats the new hotness. glad i could assist on what i think is the most innovative install/modifications ever done to a TL!! congrats my son!

 

VERDICT!:

This FMIC setup probably added 30+whp.

Gentlemen, i'm currently at a loss for words right now....i just went down the road about a mile to get some food and here's what happened...did two runs....

1st test: Kept in first, brought it up to 15mph, mashed the throttle...spun through first and second...decided to let off. I almost exploded in excitment!

2ns test: 2nd gear pull....the motor sounding violent. I've never really heard anything like it. The setup definitely changed the way it sounds. Sounds like a violent, whining roar like a tornado or something. My girlfriend automatically said it felt faster.

I'm ecstatic and can barely type.

fgjiogioerjtg34tg -0tu0-2 ehr534948

 

Told you so. Been there done that...

 

Nothing was modified to the blower unit at all. The HBP was added, along with a new belt. I believe you're referring to the small hose that runs from the butterfly to the endplate,...that hose now tee's into the hose that runs to the defi boost gauge mechanism.

 

congrats eric! job well done!