Originally Posted by JJH

Cams...although Honda's are not going to ever give you the torque you lust after unless you go FI.

Originally Posted by i_love_cars

lol @ this thread.

Originally Posted by justnspace

Seriously, Gerzand laid everything out on the table.

if you didnt know anything about cams and just read that thread; you could possibly make a decision just based off that thread alone.

Seriously.

Originally Posted by 350

Think of it like this, adding a bigger cam allows you to take in more air, which in return allows you to burn more fuel, which leads to a need for more exhaust flow. Why have it breathe more if you're not gonna let it exhale? I would do exhaust and an intake before considering a cam, otherwise the cam will not get it's full potential. Do all of the supporting mods first.

Originally Posted by type-s'er

I think that thread leaves a LOT of questions about these cams unanswered... such as drivability, installation, recommendations for which cams with which supporting mods, and it doesn't even show any dyno/ barely discusses power gains...

Maybe I missed something, but i'm still pretty lost after reading that thread when it comes to these cams, which might I add, I am very interested in.

Originally Posted by gerzand

You can surely run the level 1's on a stock valvetrain and with stock injectors. The price is for both, not including shipping. You have to send a set of good cores (leaving you with 4-6 weeks downtime while they inspect/grind them) or purchased cores from Bisimoto and have zero down time.





It was a last minute attempt at "oh shit, im about to install these into the heads and never took a pic" haha. Its all good.... there is plastic between the grass and cams. lol



MAYBE next week at a regional dyno day...street tuned by me....but thats not for power. Im just tired of waiting for cold weather to tune on the dyno with.



I know for a fact it can handle stage 1's and strongly believe stage 2's, with the only exception being the stock ecu cant handle larger injectors because when they go to open loops its WAYYY too much fuel. Mind you, thats on 410's, so a base model guy might be able to run some RSX 320's and be good to go. You should try it out!

Originally Posted by BisimotoJulio

Thank you "gerzand" for sharing your project with everyone! I must say that I'm very excited to see the results of your very unique and well executed build!



I agree, camshafts for the J-series are not difficult to remove and install for a person who is mechanically inclined, however we do always recommend professional installation for those who are not comfortable doing such a job.

Bisimoto Level 1 camshaft can be ran with factory valve train, however I do always recommend investing on Bisimoto Pro springs with titanium retainers, being many times factory springs with higher mileage will not have the needed seat pressures for performance camshaft and can induce harmful harmonic issues and valve float. For myself, it is best to do so just for peace of mind knowing you will have a reliable setup for years to come.



The factory ECU can compensate for the Bisimoto Level 1 camshafts rather well and as for Bisimoto Level 2, I do recommend investing on a good tune to refine both fuel and ignition maps is always advised to gain superior power as well better drivability.



Thank you for your kind words!



I recommend with the factory ECU Bisimoto Level 1 camshafts, being that most will already have intake, header and exhaust. Beyond those modifications or Bisimoto Level 2 camshafts I do recommend investing on some type of engine management, along with tuning.

Originally Posted by Sonnick

Who better to hear from than Julio @ Bisimoto?

The 3.2 TL/3.5 TL-s will respond better to cams than the Accord (atlas). Reason being not only displacement, but their compression ratio is a full point higher. I still have no doubts that with intake and exhaust mods that these cams can and will produce gains of 15whp. I'd expect little if any changes under 4K. Once the butterflies open I think there will be a few HP gain and once the high cam comes in (VTEC) is where the real gains will show. I'd bet the Stage 1 will make power to redline with bolt ons, even with the stock TB/manifold. Obviously with these upgraded, I think the power will extend to 7K or so.

To really make full use of these cams, a tune is needed. I pulled my plugs with my stepbrother yesterday and they were white (lean). I'm getting better gas mileage thus far and I've been going WOT pretty often because of the cool, dry weather

Originally Posted by anx1300c

Should make more than 15 whp. Didn't ethanol trap like 107 or something with Stage 1 cams and bolt ons?

Originally Posted by Sonnick

A conservative guess :wink: I'd like to think on a full bolt on car, more like 20-25.

Yea apparently he trapped almost 108. He had weight reduction as well if I'm not mistaken. That's a crazy trap speed though, untuned.

Originally Posted by gerzand

He is a good friend of mine, and was 3500lbs with driver in is 6mt 3.2L w/Navi

Trap was 13.18 @ 107mph. He showed me the time slips from that day. He still had quite a bit of wheel spin with 275/40/17 bfgoodrich gforces.

This means he was at least 335whp to achieve that trap speed. Pure math.

He had the stage 1's, an FPR, port and polishing done to the upper and lower intake, as well as a SLIGHT amount of head work... but the head work was worth some good gains after some testing on his part. The car ran a bit rough on cold days.

Originally Posted by Sonnick

I've been thinking of doing cams...I juggled the idea of the TL-s cams and Stage 1s. While the TL-s cams seem to be a good, cheap option for the 3.0 Accord, I'm not sure if they will be 'enough.'

My goal is to break the 300whp mark with the 3.0. With my current numbers of 270, I see it as being completely possible with the addition of a larger CAI, Stage 1 cams and a tune.

One of my main questions is, when you had your cams in the 5AT TL, was the power continuous to redline? It says on the site they focus on the 1500-5800RPM range with the Stage 1s. Julio told me the Stage 1 cams would make more power than stock cams to redline, and of course I agreed. I just figured since you had them on the car, you'd know as well.

Also, I plan to stay on the stock valvetrain, so Stage 2s may be out of the question for me. However, I hope that the Stage 1s will be 'enough,' if you will. I've seen the duration/lift on some K series cams and they seem to be a good bit more than the Stage 1s. I know it's a different engine, and even still, the specs of the cam @.050 don't necessarily tell all as I've been told.

Originally Posted by gerzand

The cams do indeed make power nearly all the way to redline. I believe with stage 2's my peak HP was at 6500rpm.

From my personal experience with a Stage 2 cammed 5AT TL @ 3800lbs (with driver) as well as Keith with his stage 1 cammed 6MT TL a @ 3500lbs (with driver) they simply make power even without having a dyno graph by knowing Trap Speed in the 1/4 mi.

Here is the logic: If these cams didnt yield the horsepower claimed on Keith's car, then he (nor myself) would have had the trap speeds we did given gross weight. Please remember that trap speed is an indication of horsepower given a particular vehicle weight. Though you may already know this info, here is a snippet from someone who was able to explain the relation of trap speed to elapsed time (ET) very well. Anyone who truly knows drag racing will refer you to study these numbers given any car that goes down the track. Im hoping you dont see this as an attack. Just know that I referring you to these things that are well accepted in the industry:

From: http://www.stangnet.com/mustang-foru...d-here.567417/

"1) Trap Speed will tell you about your HP to weight.
2) ET will tell you more about traction and your launch.

Of course ET is important to true drag racers, because the winner is the one that gets there first. However, we're not necessarily true drag racers in our attempt to get a power estimate. Honestly, ask 10 guys at the track "What kind of trap speed are you running?" and 8 out of 10 will answer with their ET - to one or two decimal places even. When you say, "No, no, I meant trap speed", they will fumble with a broad estimate with NO decimal places and might even have to pull a time slip out of their pocket to check. Try this question when you're at the track; it's almost funny.

THE DYNAMICS OF TRAP SPEED VS. ET

After running lots of quarter miles, it becomes clear that how well you do in the first 100 feet of the track is KEY to a good time. The last half of the track is KEY to a good speed.

Let's use an example of a stick-shift mini-pickup that on a perfect run, gets a timeslip of 19.50 seconds at 70.00 mph in the quarter.

Imagine that the light turns green, the truck moves two feet and the engine dies for three seconds. After restarting the engine, the driver proceeds to then complete a perfect pass. His time slip would show 22.50 seconds at 69.97 mph. The ET was 3.00 seconds high but the speed was almost unaffected.. why?? It's because his racetrack was 1318 feet long instead of 1320, and in those last two feet this truck usually gains an additional 0.03 mph. However, the clocks recorded the long time. My point? Much of a great ET is made by a great launch.

Now take this truck again, and the driver leaves right on the green light. However, he misses the 3-4 shift when he's at 1250 feet. He coasts for the last 70 feet while trying to find fourth gear. Now instead of accelerating another few mph in this final 70 feet of the track, he decelerates over this distance. His timeslip; 19.51 at 67.83 mph. Note how the et is almost perfect (only off by 0.01 second) but the trap speed is way off (over 2 mph slow)! On a good run, traveling that last 70 feet at an average of 69 mph, would have taken .692 seconds. At a 68 mph avg., that 70 feet takes .682 seconds. That's why his ET only varied by .01 seconds, yet the trap speed was 'way off'. My point here: the end of the track is critical to trap speed; shift rpm, missing a gear... these are the big players.

Hopefully these examples are clear. Neither of these runs are 'perfect' runs, it's just that one has an error at the start, one at the finish and the results are obvious. The start of the track is a big player in the ET, but a small player in the mph. The end of the track is a big player in the mph, but a small player the ET. "

Originally Posted by RoadxRage

I will be ordering Bisimoto Pro springs with titanium retainers
After these are in Do i go with Stage 2 or 3 Cams?

Before i do the vales and cams I am Going to Install the HFPC First

Originally Posted by i_love_cars

do you have an 07/08 TL? If not, then stage 2 or 3 cams shouldn't even be on your radar because you won't be able to use Flashpro to tune.

Do you already have intake, bored TB, PnP IM/runners (or 3.7 manifold /ported runners)? Do you already have j-pipe and a catback exhaust?

are you planning to do headwork?

If none of these are true, then aggressive cams will make your car run like shit. Utter and complete dogshit. Don't even bother unless you're into throwing money down the drain.

The only people that should be talking about aggressive "stage 2" or "stage 3" cam grinds are the ones with full bolt-ons, the ability to tune, and open up the heads.

Originally Posted by justnspace

ummm this is just the first page....
its CRAWLING WITH INFO.

Originally Posted by RoadxRage

Hey i-love-cars I have an AEM FI in my position Will this help with the CAMS or Not?
Am I Really Screwed for buying an 2006 TL?
man i am really down right now i think i will drink a 24 pack of Dos X

Originally Posted by boy9enius

talk about spoon feeding. lol

Originally Posted by RoadxRage

Can you give a discount?
Price Is High For This Bad Economy.
Please give a little something to ease the suffering of Not have these HFPC.

Originally Posted by RoadxRage

Thanks for the Code I will Use it to save a few $$
I wanted to add some extra cooling to the HFPC do yuo think if i add Some Flex Seal Before I Install them Will They Keep Them Cooler They Says It Turns into rubber that holds 1200F and wont melt And It Tough Rubber Will that Keep Them Cool Down.
What do yuo think?

Originally Posted by i_love_cars

lol. 500-600 bucks for HFPC's is a drop in the bucket relatively speaking when you are talking about modding the TL. It's costly to mod just about anything on this car.

I think I went through 3k in 2012 not including tires, and I don't have my running total yet for 2013 but it's at least 6k so far with heads, new wheels/tires, Flashpro, and a spare set of type-s cams to get out for my regrind.

and i haven't even sent my cams out for the regrind yet which is probably 700 bucks, and i also have to buy PCD's (hopefully mitigating that cost by selling my HFPC's), and I have to buy new valve springs still, and coilovers...and....god dammit i have an addiction...

well you get the picture. Just put the order in with Richie, it's worth it and you won't be disappointed.

PUSH THE BUY BUTTON ALREADY. Richie's products kick ass.

Originally Posted by RoadxRage

Sell me yours? Are they Coated? And Can I Put Down A 100.00 Down payment till your ready?
What Price are looking at?? For your Used HFPC.

Originally Posted by RoadxRage

Are you going to sell your HFPC?

Originally Posted by Sonnick

Get the bolt ons first, then worry about cams. You're trying to finger the girl without introducing yourself. Take it slow brother.

Originally Posted by justnspace

^wow, you're weird too.
roadrage didnt even do anything...

Originally Posted by AccordFlex

Do Port and Polished intake runners, 3.7 manifold and ZDX throttle body, and pulleys.

Originally Posted by RoadxRage

do you have a link so i can learn about Port and Polished intake runners?

How do i go about this process?