See, this was another one that I always believed up until a year ago. I also believed that bandpass was junk unless you were an SPL competitor. This setup designed by CSW seems to have the best of all worlds. Very efficient and wonderful SQ. Maybe that's due to all of the prefabbed bandpass boxes.

 

yes, distortion (heat) caused by clipping, will blow speakers. But that is the clipping doing it. If less power blew speakers we would be shelling stuff every time we turned the volume down.

The situation you describe is user abuse/ignorance i.e. gain is not a volume control. Turning up the gain to get the volume you want causing clipping at high input levels when you really don't have enough power != too little power blows speakers.

the power rating on a speaker is typically a thermal safety #. While most good speakers can take more power rating v. rating (i.e. 100 watt rms speaker will be fine on a 150 rms amp) keep in mind music is dynamic and at any given time, even at somewhat high volume you may only be getting 20% of the rms output of the amp. Put that 100w speaker on a 150w amp playing a full bore test tone and the speaker won't last long.

 

Forgive me - I missed the part during the sign-up process where opinions from experience were replaced by absolutism.

If you have tried and it and don't like it, then lets hear about it instead of a cavalier one-liner. If you have heard or read some stuff online, then I probably won't ask you before I post again.

I have tried:
Single 12w6 on 500/1 and the 150/300 bridged channels of my 450/4 on bandpass both sealed in the trunk and mounted on the rear deck.
Single Boston Pro 10.5 on the same amps in the trunk (did not try in the deck).
8" DVC Old Fosgate (rfp 1208 maybe, I forget) in the deck in a sealed box off of the 450/4 which was OK and probably acceptable.
All of these would be outstanding at some music, but not others.
In the end, I ran my K2s active with twice the wattage that they recommend (and tuned with some help from the car-audio.com focal gurus) and the 6.5s delivered more sound and quality from the doors than any of the others did from the rear. The 6.5s were as good as any other setup with the good and WAY better with the bad... I could tune them in and they would work for any music.

I tried one my my Qs off of the bandpass on the 450/4 but you could not hear it over the other one so it was a terrible test and I gave up early. I was going to try the 500/1 on it, but never did since I love the Focals.

 

Woofer size does not dictate frequency response.

Enclosure does.

To say 10's are "slow" is very noobish...

 

Are you assuming that a driver has equal frequency response throughout the whole spectrum? A flat, or near-flat, graph? Academically, you are right, but in the real world these parts are designed to do certain things, are good at some things and not others (market price point vs. more bas-ass sound), and from my experience they will not work as academically advertised all of the time for every situation. ...and don't even get me started on manufacturer provided frequency graphs.

Again, if you have any experience, I would like to hear it because I might try it out (again) myself some day. I think that the rear sub hole in my TL would be a great place for a larger mid bass driver, but what actually works - no myths, what works?

Have you tried that B&C 10NW64, or just drooling over it? It is certianly cheap enough to try out, but without wasting my time in academia with soon-to-be so-so results, how does it compare to other things that you have tried? What kind/size/mount of enclosure works best for it - in your opinion?

Again, I apologize if the OP was not wanting real-world trial-and-error opinions on this subject.

 

I wouldn't bother with a mid-bass only in the factory sub location. Putting it there will completely distort your stage. And yes, that is from real world experience.

 

IHC, i have the right speakers for you or at least they seem they would do the job you are looking for.

http://www.woofersetc.com/p8331/ES06...ss-Drivers.htm

http://www.woofersetc.com/p7020/M6+i...ividual%29.htm

http://www.woofersetc.com/p5574/M6+-...ss-Drivers.htm

 

Sensitivity: 83.8dB F A I L

Power hungry inefficient bastards lol

 

Forgot to add, op check out the image dynamics xs69's

same cone area as an 8

http://www.woofersetc.com/p5714/XS69...ent-System.htm

 

or do what this guy did

idq 8 & a horn

 

That's interesting. I've always been intrigued by horns but they're a bit out of my league. If I could just mount them, make the connections, and walk away I would try it. But from my understanding it take a quite a bit of setup and tuning. Any thoughts?

 

Horns do take a lot of tuning to get right, but the end result is fucking amazing.

I had a few goals in setting up my system, but one important one was that I wanted that live band intensity. I was at a small venue last Halloween while the band was setting up, and the drummer was hitting each drum a few times while the sound guy made adjustments at the board. I was in front of the stage, and I had a revelation. I'd been into car audio for 10 years and had been chasing the wrong result- I've always tried to have an accurate setup, but I'd always gone for a "smooth" or "mellow" sound. I'd felt that in most well recorded music, especially female vocals, that light and airy should be the goal. Well I'd been chasing this "SQ" thing all wrong, I'd had years of accurate, but BLAND sounding setups. I mean nice to listen to, but not exciting even at loud levels. I decided on Halloween to restructure my thinking, and follow what I truly wanted to do, rather than what the majority would consider "SQ".

I wanted impact, snap, and sharp attack. I wanted bass I could feel in my gut, midbass that would make me flinch, and in your face highs. Not ear bleeding or shrill, but just plain loud and clear while still tonally accurate- but without losing composure at high levels. I haven't been able to do this with conventional car audio drivers.

What solved that? high efficient mids and horns.

 

You know, that's exactly what I've been thinking. I love some of the SQ cars but they can sound boring. Maybe just a little too much bass, a little too much treble, sounds better to me. I'll save the horns for next year when I have more time and money.

For now, I ended up crossing the subs at 90hz and the mids at 100hz. What an amazing difference in both clarity and SQ. I know many subs sound like crap crossed over that high and mine did too in the sealed box. They sound amazing in the new box. The sound blends so well, I ended up turning off the subs to see just how much of the lower "midbass" was coming from the subs and how much was coming from the mids. Happy enough for now....

I think you guys were right in that I need a processor, some way to tune and get the most out of the setup I have now before changing components.

 

wow so much talk on tuning but never really a good amount of input on a good processor. Before you spend money on chasing your midbass, do yourself a huge favor and get the 3sixty.2 and that would solve much of your tuning issues. Then if you still don't like it which I highly doubt then go chase better sounding speakers according to your ears. I can't recommend much since my ears are unlike yours. Oh btw this is from experience also hehehe. I have the 3sixty.2 and I can tune my system to how I like it. In fact I've tuned my system so much times and like various setups I saved all of the different setups I like and if I like it one way for one type of music I just load the file I like or think would sound right for that type of music. Takes less than 10 seconds to change it. Besides you can even change every speaker to how to one it to sound or even change the delays on the speakers such as the fronts vs the rears so that way all of the sound will hit your ears all at once. Try it and see how much you still require a good mid base. 8" would do well vs a 10" imho. If I were to have more of a midbasss over the 6.5's then I would rather just do a 6x9 setup for midbass and clarity if tuned right. 3sixty.2 3sixty.2 3sixty.2 3sixty.2 lol

 

8 would be nice, but in his case, the right 6.5 will shine.

This would be a fantastic setup..even tho it's a bit pricey

ID xs65
http://www.woofersetc.com/p5715/X65-...acell-cone.htm

ID cd1-pro
http://www.woofersetc.com/p5005/CD1P...ker-System.htm

 

damn those are pricy ahhahha. I would rather invest in a good processor before even going deep like that lol. But of course if i could throw away money like that yes I would try those out looks good but without a good eq or some sort of crossover all speakers suck ass. To me 8's are too much and too bulky and will sound to close to the subs. I have no problems with my 6.5's but then again that's just me. Of course my 3sixty.2 makes a world of difference. So again I would go for 3sixty.2 and do some adjustments on his existing speakers and then decide if it still lacking for his taste. It's much simpler that way then having to worry about where to mount the new speakers.

 

Processor would obviously have to come first since it's 2nd in line in the source chain