stevemk07

I picked up a Sony XM-BR604 4/3/2 channel amp for cheap to try amping some of the stock speakers. The amp will put our 65 watts x 4 at 2 ohms with .1% THD + N at RMS rated power (1% THD at 4 ohm). It also says it has a balanced input which may allow me to just connect the preamp signal wires for the front L and R channels. I am primarily interested in amping the front components but not sure whether I should also amp the centre or the rear speakers. Should I leave the centre speaker on the stock amp and amp the rears? Do I need filtering on the amp for the rear speakers at this power level? I do not believe the rear channel (3&4) have HPF available, only LPF or nothing.For the components my amp has a selectable HPF at 80Hz for the front so I am hoping that is sufficient to keep them from melting.

I already have an aftermarket sub in the trunk which is fine the way it is for now.

I do not have NAV but I use the HFL all the time so I want to keep that functioning.

TL audio experts please advise on how to hook this up and keep the HFL and all other functionality. Would hooking up 65 watts to the centre speaker hurt it or does it already have some sort of filtering in line or on the HU?

I know this system is nothing compared to some of you guys on here but I am only borderline wanting to upgrade the stock audio (with the exception of the added quality sub). Most times I can listen to the stock audio and be quite happy. It is only on certain songs where I really notice its short-comings.

Thanks for your help!

Trunk Monkey

iTrader: (1)

Where are you finding specs on that amp? Something seems off and I'd like to look at it

stevemk07

Sorry, it's the XM-ZR604 not XM-BR604. I found a pdf of the Sony manual for the amp. Quoting it below:

CEA2006 Standard
Power Output: 60 Watts RMS x 4 at 4 Ohms <1% THD+N
SN Ratio: 97 dBA (reference: 1 Watt into 4 Ohms)

Rated output (supply voltage at 14.4V)
4 speakers:
60 W x 4 (20Hz - 20kHz, 1% THD at 4 Ohms (manual has the Greek letter Omega in place of "Ohms")
65 W x 4 (20Hz - 20 kHz, 0.1% THD, at 2 Ohms (same thing)

---------------------
I can send to you if you give me your email.

sddale

With your situation I would see if you could take the preamp signal and amplify the front and rear speakers and let the stock amp power the center. If you get noise you'll have to take the signal post amp and use a LOC.

If you decide to replace the front speakers then you might be able to bridge the amp and just power the fronts with it and either reconnect the rears to the stock amp or just not hook them up at all.

I wouldn't mess with the center speaker at all...keep it on the stock amp.

jda123

I would not do it. If you are going to run new wires and take the car half apart, then I would put some components in at the same time.

I would not go through the bother just to amp the stockies. Sure, they might sound better... but they might not... and I would be unhappy if I tore into the car again to put in some aftermarket components.

If you are happy then, stay put. Heck, most of the people who upgrade their audio are never happy even after spending thousands of dollars with countless hours, so you are way ahead of them.

stevemk07

I was going to use stock wiring. Hoping to get better volume and clarity with this upgrade. Ive run 100w using itty bitty wires before with no issue. At some point when I can better afford it I will likely upgrade the front components and be done with it.

I guess I just need to find a time to install this amp and test out my assumptions.

stevemk07

I had a listen to the stock rear speakers (sub off, faded all the way back) and there is only mids there. Can anyone tell me if that filtering is done in the stock amp or in the head unit? If in the HU I will connect them up to the 65 watts the rear channels will put out without filtering on the amp. If it's done in the stock amp I will not bother with them.

pohljm

pretty sure your getting a full range signal coming out of the headunit with a little loudness contour.

cacicgt7

Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but in the 2006+ TL's the rear speakers should be full range.

They were only capped I believe on 04 and 05's.

Front's have been always full range components.


Also if you're connecting that amp straight to the outputs from the headunit then I would assume you need a line driver. Someone already said it, but if you get noise you can always go post amp with an LOC.

jda123

They rears in my 2006 are not full range. The signal from the HU is about 100 to 3000 hertz and there is no tweeter back there. If you want full range rears, you have to use the front signal for it, which is the only full-range signal in the car.

stevemk07

This is what I was looking to hear! 100 - 3000 sounds right based on my testing. If in fact the signal from the head unit is cut off at 100 Hz then the stockers should be ok driven at 65 watts. Man it'll be loud. Just need to pick up some dynamat and amp install stuff now. Seeing a guy who apparently has the cables I need tonight. The prices for that crap is insane around here.

I went to the local shop here looking for a line driver and the guy tried to insist I need a new head unit and Alpine PDX amps. His reasoning was that he is so well versed in car audio that Alpine flies him to see them (guessing he's the purchaser/owner.

I can understand his line of thinking though, best to start with a good super clean signal. But meh our HU signal is good enough IMO.

stevemk07

Oh yeah I would love to get an alpine pdx amp but not at the prices they sell them for. Believe everything is listed af MSRP in that store and a sale price is regular price anywhere but here.

cacicgt7

So did full range back there start in 2007?

stevemk07

I will use test frequencies this evening and let you know as mine 07

stevemk07

Uhh.. I will do the testing tonight instead. Too busy yesterday.

stevemk07

My rear speakers are putting out full range. Using sine wave tones they produce pretty well Down to 40 Hz and I could detect frequency response with my ear up to 17k

I hate cars

Thank you. I've been saying this for a long time but no one listens. I've used the rear signal before for the front stage and it's most definitely full range, at least down to 40hz and it goes all the way up. In fact, after the stock amp, using the rear signal results in a brighter stage.

Trunk Monkey

iTrader: (1)

So there's likely some sort of EQ top end boost for the rears within the factory amp/processing is what you're saying. Makes sense as it's a bit farther away from the listener

pohljm

Steve, how about the sub channel? if your able to test, would be good to know that too.

stevemk07

Hmm... As this sub channel is the only signal I have used for a sub in car audio for the past 14 or so years it is difficult for me to say exactly. I know that with my old sub box I had flat response down to 25 Hz or so but that was with boosting at 40 Hz about 6-7 dBs. With my new sub box which is less than half the size of the old one it is not flat anymore but sounds much better. Given this and the projected response curve in winisd for my sub and box my guess is the sub signal is pretty flat right down to 25 Hz and then the signal is cut sharply.

stevemk07

Could also be my android output is cut sharp at 25Hz.

I hate cars

I was thinking it might be because there are no tweeters back there. Not sure if the rear is boosted or the fronts are cut and I've been trying to find the old thread where every channel was put on an o-scope and had a ton of facts on the frequency response of every channel.

cacicgt7

Thanks for posting Steve, that confirms what I thought I read. Interesting that not all years of the TL have full range in the rear, but some do (07+).

I hate cars

'06 for sure. '05 maybe as well.

jda123

You guys testing pre or post amp? I have never jacked with the pre amp, but I cannot get my rear speakers to play much above 3K in my 2004... so this is post stock amp.

Trunk Monkey

iTrader: (1)

I'll check my rears after work just to add a little more to the '04 side of things. I don't think they're full though

stevemk07

My testing is on stock 07 w aftermarket sub/amp. Hertz HX250d/Kenwood KAC-8105d.

I just did some sine wave testing on the lower range. I have subsonic filter off. I could detect had fairly strong response down to 22Hz. At 21Hz there was a big drop in response though I could still feel some response. My subs frequency response starts at 23Hz though so that may be the reason for the big dip below that. To me this confirms there is nothing wrong with taking the sub signal post amp.

I hate cars

'04 is for sure different than the rest. Not so sure about '05 and '06-'08 are all the same; full range.

jda123

Does the 07 and 08 have a tweeter? If not, then wouldn't even a full range signal put all kids of distortion to that crappy 6.5 (err, 5.25) driver trying to cover 50 to 20K? Seems like it would sound awful. I don't have one, so I don't know... just asking.

Again, are we talking pre or post amp?

Trunk Monkey

iTrader: (1)

If you want to be stuck with the x-over, slope, eq settings, etc that the factory amp has provided you with..


If it didn't have a tweeter then it's gotta be beaming like a mofo! Definitely just for a "fill" and likely awful at that if it doesn't have a tweeter for dispersion on that top end (near beaming freq. for 5.25 or 6.5, whichever it is).

AndrewA

iTrader: (3)

Yes, definitely post-amp. Pre-amp appears to be full range, at least for me. I have pre-amp signals out of the HU to my JL XD600/6 to Hertz ECX 165 coaxial speakers in the rear and I get full range.

stevemk07

I have read a few places it is crossed at 80 Hz which I think is perfect for the stock speakers. Integration is great in my vehicle.

I hate cars

The stock speakers were Klippeled. The inductance is high enough that it acts as a natural low pass filter. Even the front 6.5" are run full range up top, no low pass on them.

stevemk07

No tweeter. Sounds good for filler. I sat back there to listen and still very pleasant. No beamin that I can notice but I have never sat back there in such a way that my head was directly in front of the woofer.

The highs on them are so subtle that I thought they were mids only. Only when using test tones could I tell they were somewhat producing up to 17k

I hate cars

Beaming is just canellation at higher frequencies (from the inner and outer cone area) which is a function of driver diameter. It's not a bad thing in this case and won't cause a degredation in sound. It's nothing more than reduced output at higher frequencies unless the speaker is aimed directly at you (on axis).

Trunk Monkey

iTrader: (1)

Didn't know it was due to cancellation. Good stuff. I just knew that beaming made any frequencies above the frequency (dependent on driver diameter) become narrow and not disperse correctly. That's why I said it's likely he can't hear the top end due to this

Btw Matt, do you ever get the jet noise from you MS-8? Looking to get one and I'm scared and don't wanna blow the speakers lol. Thinking I might just buy new/refurb from JBL so I can easily return if it's got the noise in it