Joe Foe from Buffalo

How do we know a JL SSI is needed with our (2004-08 TL's) oem head units and oem amps that we use the oem audio to JL clean sweep then to after market amps and after market subs?
http://mobile.jlaudio.com/products_c...hp?prod_id=387
I seem to be lacking bass and JL says I do not need one and I think they may be wrong on Gen3 TL's.
I have a 2005 non navi TL that I have my oem head unit front and rear channels from the oem amp going in to a JL Clean Sweep
http://mobile.jlaudio.com/products_c...hp?prod_id=369
Then to a JL HD900/5
http://mobile.jlaudio.com/products_amps.php?amp_id=537
Which the HD900 outputs feed audio to the OEM front and rear speakers (yes OEM speakers do sound good over powered...search the website for details) and to a JL HO210G-W3v2 sub system (two JL W3 subs in a box JL makes tuned for max output for the subs)
http://mobile.jlaudio.com/products_e...php?page_id=12
and I think I am missing some bass even though I do get a fair amount all ready. Also I have been told the clean sweep would have told me it would need a SSI when I calibrated it cause clean sweeps only calibrate with full range audio.

I know the oem sub channel only puts out bass so my thinking I need or would gain bass if I use a SSI to get more bass in my system which I would feed in to the Cleansweep with the front and rear channels to get a full range of audio at all volumes in part thinking the OEM head units and oem amp may cross over audio to front and rear and sub channels at different volumes which they do but I need to get the bass from the sub channel to max bass.

FYI I may have made a mistake and posted this Q in the wrong place to get a good reply since I didn't get one in this post if anyone noticed a double post it makes more sense to me to keep this one in the Gen3 TL area if one is needed to be deleted.
https://acurazine.com/forums/audio-video-electronics-navigation-22/jl-ssi-needed-805699/

natedoggydog

The folks are Jl are correct. You do not need a cleansweep. Trust me, I have a cleansweep sitting in my extra bedroom. Who did you talk to? The guys at JL built a custom TL and its not necessary. Per Manville, you can just pick up the signals you need right around the stock amplifier. I dont remember off the top of my head, I would have to check my messages exactly where and how.

Joe Foe from Buffalo

My question is not about the Clean Sweep it is about a SSI. The documentation/video's I have posted in my other post with same subject header and posted a link to it clearly shows a Clean Sweep does head unit/amp audio output like ours in the Gen3 TL's well when we hook up after market audio. I also have documentation from JL how JL wired (with exact color wires to tap in to at oem amp outputs) and used a clean sweep using the oem amp output front and rear channels to the clean sweep inputs then to after market amp in a Gen3 TL JL did a install on, I can share with others if wanted. It's a PDF file and will need a email address t send it to.

jda123

You do not need it unless you want to signal sum to get different frequencies to the speakers that the stock does does not put out. The front is full range over 80ish. The rears appear to be 80-3000 ish (not for sure, so I am guessing - if anybody knows, I would love to know too). The sub channel is just lows. If you want to alter any of those, then the CCI can help if you amps do not signal mix already (some do). If you just want to keep the OE signal ranges going to the same places, then you don't need it.

DiamondJoeQuimby

iTrader: (2)

If you grab signal before the stock amp you do not need it it is full range (except for center). After stock amp you will.

Joe Foe from Buffalo

That is exactly what I thought DiamondJoeQuimby. Can you or anyone else go in to detail why or how to prove it? Kinda only makes sense a SSI is needed since the oem amp sub output only puts out low frequencies.

DiamondJoeQuimby

iTrader: (2)

I kinda just did, but here goes...

The JL Cleansweep needs at least 2 full range channels to work properly. If the car does not have any easily attainable analog full range signal (think Mercedes w/ optical signal and turn on then crossed over signals to all speakers from the amp) you have to sum the crossed over signal back together to get a full range signal so the Cleansweep can do its thing.

The TL has low level, flat, full range outputs for front and rear speakers (slight dip at 1kHz...like ~3dB) and a high passed output for the center channel (~350Hz IIRC, could be off on that) and a low passed for the sub (~100Hz...same deal). This can be proven by connecting the outputs to an RTA and looking at the frequency response. When I was planning on using the stock deck for my system I did this and verified. I have since lost the pictures, but it happened. I promise.

I did not RTA after the amp since I had no intention of using the amplified signal, but even if it is full range it will still be eq'd/dsp'd which would require the Cleansweep to get a flat signal.

So, if you get signal before the amp you have flat, full range front and rear signal which is what you would be looking for to feed your new amplifier. Thus, the Cleansweep is not needed.

In the case of just adding a sub, you can simply grab the sub signal before the amp as well since it is LP'd ~100Hz. You still get level control through the head unit this way too.

The only time you would use a Cleansweep in this car would be if you plan to get signal after the factory amp for some reason (which honestly doesn't make much sense since you can get everything you would need at a "relatively" unprocessed low level.)

Joe Foe from Buffalo

Thank you for that DiamondJoeQuimby. You seem to know what your talking about and verified it with a RTA. Your reinforcing my thinking I will benefit from a SSI after oem amp then to the Clean Sweep. Can anyone please correct me if I am wrong in this with more info like DiamondJoeQuimby has mentioned ...also... I'm using the audio from the oem outputs to the Clean Sweep inputs cause I understood it that the before amp power (head unit outputs) is not enough to feed audio to the clean sweep then to the trunk which is the location of my after market amp. I read it some place that several have tried and failed and had to use the oem amp outputs then to the clean sweep then to trunk. I have the Clean Sweep hidden under the passenger side carpet ageist the fire wall then going to my amp in trunk.

DiamondJoeQuimby

iTrader: (2)

The low level from the stock deck is a little less than 1 volt. Which if you have a decent amp is enough voltage. Is it great? No. Will it sound better w/ more voltage? Yes. But you could just as easily do a line driver instead of the Cleansweep since the best part of the Cleansweep is the dsp and if you go before the amp it is not needed.

Joe Foe from Buffalo

A post semi related
https://acurazine.com/forums/3g-tl-audio-bluetooth-electronics-navigation-94/cleansweep-measurements-tl-before-after-578597/

DiamondJoeQuimby

iTrader: (2)

Hmm...I wonder if there is a different eq curved used in the 04/05 (that thread is from 05) to the newer ones. I don't remember my 07 being anywhere near that bad.

off_boost

I finally found the answer i was looking for...thanks man, so i know my kappa four needs at least a 0.2 volt input...if i were to shoot that one volt signal straight into my amps, worst case i would just have to crank the gain a little more to compensate for the low voltage input right ?

jda123

What amps are you using? A lot of better amps will take that 200mv signal and work with it the same way (the best that it can) as a 5V. I cannot tell a difference between a 1V and a 5V signal on a JL slash amp, so it is doing it's job.

DiamondJoeQuimby

iTrader: (2)

yeah, gain is an input sensitivity adjustment. You want to match it to the output of the source.

off_boost

Infinity kappa four and a kappa one