All, I'm in the market for a TL come early next year, so I was just wondering how many of you have issues with torque steer (TQ)? I’ve read a few articles that say the torque steer is annoying (Car & Driver), torque steer throws the handling off (Forbes), and speed induced wandering (Consumer Reports). Are these characteristics something everyone has gotten use to with a front wheel drive car, is it really noticeable, or do you just disregard it because you love your TL so much? I know the manual has Limited Slip Differential (LSD) to help with the TQ steer, but does it really help. Most LSD's require 3 and 1/2 revolutions before the LSD engages. It has to; to prevent that dog legging feeling when you take sharp turns. Any input would be helpful.


Car & Driver -http://www.caranddriver.com/article.asp?section_id=3&article_id=7597&page_numb er=2

Forbes – http://www.forbes.com/2004/02/09/cx_mf_0209test.html

Consumer Reports - http://auto.consumerguide.com/auto/n...x.cfm/id/37492

 

I notice it a lot because I've pretty much always had rear wheel drive sports cars. I've had my TL for about 6 months now and I'm still not used to it. Trust me, I love the car and I would buy it again but if they made the TL in a fwd and rwd model I would defintely go for the RWD model. It's not that annoying where it takes any pleasure away from the car though.

 

I don't notice it except on one really rutted road near my house. But then, I haven't had a RWD car since 1991, so I may just not notice it.

I have the 6MT.

 

its not that bad if you have the auto compared to the manual tranny. well i really dont notice it much cause i always had fwd cars.. integra, accord and now the tl..

 

I notice it a lot. I've never driven a FWD car though. It feels as though at times that i'm losing grip of the steering when making a quick turn from a stop.

 

Best thing for you would be to really test drive the car as you intend to use it. If the actual feeling bothers you ,you know to back off or work within the limits of the FWD set up. Having a AT reduces the TS sensation IMHO. I just enjoy the TL for what it is and do not compare to the RWD Bimmers etc. The perfect sports sedan has not been produced yet and certainly will never coming in below 30K

 

It's there for sure, it's a 270hp FWD car. But I passed on other cars in it's class that were RWD since I live in Chicago and I need a car that won't get stuck in the snow.

 

The only time I'm aware of the torque steer issue is accellerating hard from a stop, and then it lasts only about one second. 99% of the time you can't tell if it's a front or rear wheel drive car. I have the 5 AT which somewhat ameliorates any torque steer compared to the 6 spd manual.

 

Hahaha, the torque steer was the main reason I bought the TL. Coming out of the 2002 Maxima, the TS on the TL is barely even noticeable. Drive the Maxima if you want to really feel TS.

I too live in Chicago, so the prospect of buying RWD just doesn't appeal to me. If you're going to have power and FWD, you're going to have TS.

 

 

The only time I've ever noticed it was mashing the accelerator straight to the floor.

 

I Barely Notice It On My 04 At. But Like Aw1, I Also Owned An Integra, Accord, Now The Tl. Drive It, I Don't Think It Will Factor Into Your Decision. Happy T-day.

 

The TL's torque steer is light during straightline acceleration, and moderate when accelerating through corners. It's very manageable once you get used to it.

Honda's done a great job of controlling it -- I've had cars with much less torque that exhibited much more torque steer. But it can never be completely eliminated, and the TL has a pretty powerful front-wheel setup -- so you can expect to feel it from time to time.

 

It will not take you much time to get used to FWD and TS. It is kind of like driving in snow. Do one thing at a time. Do not try to steer and accelerated simultaneously. Point the car where you want it to go before hitting the gas and so on. Get used to firmly hold the steering wheel most of the time and you will be OK.

 

Torque steer is not noticeable in normal driving. It comes into play as the rev's pass 4500 rpm and the VTEC kicks in. As the EL42 tires wear down a bit, I notice the torque steer much less. I suspect the HP tire option lessens the effect. Cars such as the Nissan Maxima have much more of an issue with torque steer than the TL.

The hellical LSD(Torsen type) works almost immediately, without cogging or revolution delay.

 

Yep, I had an 04 Max (liked it very much, but it got totalled) and even with the 5spd auto that frigging thing had so much torque steer! Like wrestling a damn aligator!

TL torque steers, but I overlook it because it's such a fantastic car otherwise.

 

I don't mind torque steer one bit, if anything it lets me know the car's limits.

 

It is exagerated, and makes me wonder about the upper body strength of some of those magazine girly men - I mean, Pat Bedard looks like he should be making kielbasas in a NY Deli - he is kind of wimpy looking.

Anyway, although I do not drive my TL like I driove my S2000 or the Cobra, it takes only a few secoinds for me to make the adjustment.

It is much harder to learn how to make a FWD car move fast through a turn - where my racing experience (training and practical, in SCCA "C" for many years, now retired) makes oversteer, trail braking, etc instinctive on a RWD car, esp one with great brakes, 50/50 balance, and a superb tranny like the S2000 (numb steering, a Honda trademark, even on the NSX), adjusting to a FWD is almost counter-instinctive and I need to think about it more than just do it.

On a FWD, there are quite different tricks - the best handling I think is to set the car up so you have the line all set when you are heading toward the apex with as much speed as you and the car can handle, then get on the power as soon as you can, making use of the broad, flexible power curve of the TL's engine. Trail brake, and you will load the already overworked front tires, which are not only steering, but trying to put the power to the pavement - you will plow off the road, face first, so at least the airbag will heklp avoid an imminent demise. (that is dead for the butt print crowd).

The car wants to push, always, unless you start fooling around with anti-roll bars and other suspension parts. That can make a FWD car handle great, but it will not be as forgiving if you "overcook" things - you can end up with snap oversteer or understeer, but very likely have little or no warning. The VSA will not be able to overcome the laws of physics, which can be stretched but not altered. A FWD 3700+ pound car with a 60/40 F/R weight split can only have so much hustle.

All in all, the TL does as well or better than other powerful, FWD cars. The equal-length half (drive) shafts help, as do the steering geometry, the wishbones, etc etc. I think any driver with some racing training or experience will have no trouble.

One thing I recommend, and plan when my 6-year old is learning to drive, is to attend a high performance street driving school. It will teach you vehicle dynamics, how to drive out of skids (by the end of the 2nd day, you will be able to instantly recover from situations that seem almost impossible - the right amount of opposite lock and quick steering wheel handling PLUS knowing what to expect NEXT are the keys). I cannot recommend this more highly, even if you do not plan to race. Being able to recover from a skid, or even to know how to turn around a vehicle about to wreck in front of you*, is worth every penny you invest - not only in avoiding damage to your car, but to yourself and any loved ones in the car with you. That is priceless.

*One of the things you will learn is that most people wreck under this situation not because they do not steer quickly to avoid the car ahead (although some freeze and just hit the brakes**), but because they do not realize that as you steer to avoid, you must prepare for the after effect of that manuever, which is that the car will want to continue in that direction, and unless you immediately start to dial-in some opposite lock, youw ill spin out, or disastrously flip, which is a quick path to a fast death from brain injury. The school will help it become automatic that after the first turning manuever, you will instinctively prepare for the compensating counter-maneuver which must immediately follow. There are usually 2 or 3 iterations of this (a fishtail), with each iteration looking and feeling less dramatic, until one hopefully reaxquires complete directional control.

**Did you know that ABS has actually raised the incidents of complete total wrecks of cars, and even with SRS, high rates of mortality? How can that be? Well, in the old days, without ABS, people would lock the brakes, and prepare for what happens - they will slam into the car in front of them, and the impact assimilated in your car. If the other car is moving a bit, that will reduce the force of the impact, as will the rear crush zone. What has changed is that ABS allows the driver to avoid the impact with the car ahead, and drive at high speed off the road. Then what happens? If you are lucky, you will plow through a wheat field and come to rest safely. But in many cases, you will hit an immoveable object - a tree, a crask barrier, a ground berm, stone wall, etc. The total force of the crash will transfer to your vehicle - hitting a tree at 70 mph has tremendous force, and many die, even with airbags. That is why there was a severe drop in insurance rates when ABS hit, but the numbers have been adjusted up, based on the actuarial experiences of the situation i just described.
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Bottom Line? IMO, FWD or RWD, making best use of the inherent handling advantages and limitations, and best use of the available technological advances combined with the skill of the driver will make for the fastest and safest way of hustling from point A to point B.

 

RR,

Another fine example of why we are so lucky to have you as a contributor on our forum. I'd give you points but the system won't allow for it. Excellent write up as always.

dsc888