jmo

Don't get me wrong, I think the '04 TL stereo system is nice, but I wish I could get some more treble out of it. Does anyone else feel this way, and does anyone know if anything can be done to get more highs out of it without doing anything major to it.

Tread

Yes, there are other posts on this, one person replaced the tweeters and said there was an improvement in doing this.

Supposidly, the tweeters are made in Mexico and 2ohm.

I know the center speaker is 4ohms and made in USA

KJSmitty

Do you guys notice that the rear speaker sound is very flat with no treble?? Almost like all mid to lows...? I would like to know if this is a speaker design issue or a built in "crossover" for the 5.1 sound...

I'm thinking of replacing all 3 speakers across the rear deck to improve bass and even up the sound quality from front/back fade

Any thoughts...?

Thanks

DNA

Unfortunately, the entire several-page thread concerning rear-speaker replacement and other audio issues was lost in the Great Server Crash. As the originator of that thread stated, if you move the fader to enable only the rear L/R speakers, the sound is very dull (no highs). He replaced them with 2-ways (mid-range/tweeter) speakers and found this to be a big improvement. In another forum Elliot Scheiner stated that he would liked to have included tweeters in the rear L/R channels but couldn't because of cost.

Back in November when I first got my TL, one of the first things I did was measure the TL's audio frequency response. (Check my picture gallery for one of the spectrum analysis graphs.) Even the front L/C/R treble response drops off rapidly starting about 8KHz with very little response above 12 KHz. The center channel is even worse.

There are other problems with the audio system as well. There is a large peak at about 6KHz. This makes the front sound like it has decent highs. Unfortunately this peak gives the audio an unpleasant hard brittle sound. Cranking up the treble control only makes this worse.

The lower-midrange/upper-bass is very ragged and elevated. Several people have suggested cranking down the bass a couple notches and that does help.

I'm amazed that one of the first speakers some people talk about replacing is the subwoofer. I'm sure it isn't a high-end driver but it does a very good job at what I consider reasonable levels. The deep-bass is fairly clean, tight, and extended down to below 20 Hz. There aren't many home subwoofers that can say that. But I will admit its level isn't enough to destroy nearby buildings and cause deafness in anyone within a one-mile radius.

The TL/ELS audio system's problems have led some people to think about replacing some or all of the speakers and amps. As has been noted by others, if one doesn't know what they are doing, blindly replacing the TL's audio components could make the sound worse, not better. And while the TL's audio quality is worse than even a budget home audio system, it is better than the stock audio in most cars. I'm sure most non-audiophile TL owners are satisfied with the audio system as it is.

ddisano

I agree...I am a musician and I have to tell you that I am also very disappointed in the treble on the system. Not good at all!

zexi

DNA, Great post you are well versed in the technical aspects of the audio system.
I would like to replace the front tweeters but don't want to destroy the sound balance in the process.
If you get a chance could you or some other technically inclined member find out what tweeter might be available to enhance the sound system.
Thanks for any help!

mrtech

I am contemplating of adding a set of tweeters in the back (As oppose to replacing the rear speakers). I have seen some good brands (Polk of example) that you can surface mounts that are directional as well.

vtechbrain

DUH! The rear speakers are full range therefore they dont have much high extension. One thing is sure if you start screwind with the speaker you'll destroy the well crafted surround ambiance. If you need a little more high frequency "brilliance" turn up the treble slightly. The car has titanium dome tweeters they can reproduce any high they want it has to do with the frequency calibration of the system, therefore it has nothing to do with what tweeter you put up there. For info on the system panasonic has a whole web site explaining the system and its components. I can confidently tell you that you will not find better car audio speaker components out there. It even has a kevlar sub!

ddisano

Vtech..I have the treble up all the way and still it impossible to get a crisp cymbal sound or anything approaching "brilliance" Any suggestions?

jmo

ddisano - I am with you, with the treble turned all the way to the right it is still to low for my taste. I hope that I can do something about it.

zexi

I think what VTEC is saying is its not the tweeters but the crossover settings built into the amplifier.

automophile

YES - there is not enough upper mid-range and treble in the system! YES! You cannot boost the upper mids and highs to compensate for this, so how do you fix it?

CUT THE BASS! Drop the Bass to -2, then turn up the volume a little and you have automatically boosted the mids and highs! It makes all the difference - try it!

I am 10 times happier with the system after I did this. I run the sub now at -1 to 0. , treble at +2 max, since the problem is REALLY with the upper mids.

spdntckt

Interesting.. I used to think the same about the treble, but then i started playing DVD-As.. the DVD-As sound great.. i am wondering if there is some sort of difference in teh way the crossovers work.. or something like that.. seems strange.

vtechbrain

Automophile is absolutely right! There is another poster who went throught the whole rigamorole of testing the acoustics and reached the same conclusion many of us have reached by ear. Lower the base slightly and the highs will become more apparent. A quirk in the system is that in stereo the front center channel "mixes" the left and right channel including the tweeters input , since the center channel is full range it dulls the highs a little bit. In DVD mode this doesn't happen because there is no L&R mix, all six channels get separate info. The L+R mix is a slight compromise to improve the audio stage. Another big issue is that it sounds so darned good on DVD that CD becomes sort of a slight let down.

BLACK VELVET

VTECH,

Can you give a link to the panasonic site that you are talking about?

danno

GOTJAZZ is pretty good at this stereo thing.He also wrote a good post!:wow:

mrtech

Try moving the Fader all the way to the rear. You will see the dramatic loss of treble. I think adding a tweeter in the back or replacing the full range rear speakers with a 2 way will improve overall treble.

Lore

I was thinking of replacing my speakers too, but man, it's a pain in the rear to take that back seat/rear deck off. You have to be VERY careful with the two c-pillar trims because the fabric rips extremely easily on the "Side Curtain Air Bag" buttons, which is what you need to take out to pop the trim off.

mischa

It is true that when you move the sound to the back, there's no treble. when i first drove the car i turned the stereo up a bit and i didn't think the rear speakers were even working so i asked the passengers in the back if they were on.

i come from a $1000+ self installed (meaning no labor charge) aftermarket system so i guess it's reasonable that i'm unimpressed.

POSSIBLY since the DVD audio stuff is new, and Honda/Acura is the first company to put it in their vehicle (promotion), the whole system is made to play DVDs a LOT better than regular CDs. Inhibiting the quality of CD play makes the DVD audio sound increasingly clear, further promoting the new technology. in essence, a type of scam.

not to say it's true or anything... it just might be.
-mischa

DNA

This was my first thought as well. Since I don't (yet) have a DVD with test tones, I have no way to measure the difference.

However, I think there might be another explanation. When playing anything except 5.1 sources, the Acura sums the front L/R channels and puts that into the center speaker. This is a good idea, in my opinion, as this places center solo sounds in the middle of the car much better than if it would if it just used the L/R speakers.

However, much of what I'm hearing from two channel sources comes primarily from the center channel, not the L or R. This would be a fine except the center channel doesn't have a tweeter. I believe this is at least part of the reason why one hears more highs on DVD-A's than CD's. (The increased sample rate of DVD-A's compared to CD's is most certainly NOT a factor in increased treble. Even cheap CD players have flat frequency response to 20 KHz.)

I have measured the tweeter output (by placing the audio spectrum analyzer's mic about 1" above the tweeter grill) and when playing a test CD, the output drops off rapidly above about 6 KHz. I don't know if this is due to poor tweeters or intentional EQ on non-DVD's. I'd hate to think that Panasonic actually added circuitry and cost to the TL/ELS system just to make CD's sound worse than DVD-A's.