automophile

Between CES and the NAMM show I found out that Acura really short-changed us on the surround system.

They put all this effort into providing a great sound system capable of properly playing DTS 5.1 audio, but did NOT add the Algorithm to the DSP chip that would have allowed us to play our existing collection of stereo CDs in Surround Sound!

According to my friend at DTS, the Neo 6 algorithm not only works VERY well, but comes FREE with the DTS license. It was most likely NOT included because the "consultant" on the system would not allow it. SO - we are all forced to re-create our CD collection to be able to fully enjoy the sound system. How short-sighted!

Please WRITE to Acura, insisting that they add this in future generations!

youngmic

I have never liked simulated surround - Dolby Pro Logic or Neo 6. I won't miss it.

Norse396

I like DVD-A for it's depth and fuller sound, not for surround sound. I think CD's sound pretty damn good too.

adam209

doesn't dvd-a mean that each channel was recorded seperately? doesn't seem like it would sound that great even if we did have the chip

need4spd

Interesting.

I also think we are missing MP3 playback due to the consultant (Mp3's are not liscensed)!

żGotJazz?

I agree with youngmic and Norse396.

I have never heard a simulated surround encoding scheme that sounded worth a darn. In fact, there's a lot of surround encoded audio that doesn't sound too great, either.

Of course your friend thinks the Neo 6 algorithm sounds "great" - it's his product (or, at least his company's product).

When it comes to simulated surround encoding algoritms, the only two sort-of sure things are to take the mono portion of the audio in the 500 <-> 3500 Hz range and route it to the center channel. That will generally put the vocalist in the center channel. Taking the mono portion of the audio below about 80 Hz and sending that signal to the subwoofer is pretty workable - you won't find as many problems with that.

Notice how I said "sort-of" and "generally"? That's because this encoding only works if the vocalist is coming in as centered mono from the stereo signal. If you have a live concert where the vocalist is walking across the stage, this concept is shot. Anything in the algorithm that tries to extract other "discrete" information from an analog 2-channel source is basically pure gimmicktry. Sure, it may sound interesting, but you're not getting "better" sound, just different sound.

I, for one, would request that Acura not waste any effort in adding Neo 6, but would request that they support MP3 and SACD instead - features that would be more usable by the average public.

ndabunka

I HATE SIMULATED audio. IT SUCKS Big time! Glad Acura was smart enough to leave it out. As far as MP3...MP3 quality sucks unless it's high sampled. We don't need no stink'in MP3 in our TL's. Glad they didn't waste the money on the MP3 effort. If you want it done right, go re-record your MP3 stuff onto a DVD-A. The burners are cheap nowadays at less than $150 bucks.

youngmic

A big resounding yes on the SACD! I have an SACD player in my home systems and there are far more titles available.

żGotJazz?

The only reason I would like MP3 is for the convenience, not the sound quality. I know it's highly compressed, but that's OK for me. I have about 50 hours of foreign language training CDs that I'd like to squeeze down to something more manageable.

Z Factor

Someone pointed out that all this surround sound doesn't make sense for a car audio system anyway, and I'm starting to agree. When you watch a movie and a plane flies over head it is great to hear it that way at home from front to rear or left to right.

But when was the last concert you went to where the drummer was behind you, the guitar to your left, the sax to your right, etc? Don't get me wrong, the DVD-A is nice, and I have a few DVD-A's that I enjoy, but I am not lamenting not having surround 24/7.

Modeler

I agree with the comments that simulate surround sound is worthless. I'm very happy that Acura didn't include this algorithm for processing CD content. I would hope that, if they ever include it, that they will provide an option to turn it off.

DNA

I disagree. I think 5.1 channel sound makes a lot of sense for car audio. With 2 channel audio, you have to be exactly in the middle between the left and right speakers to get good imaging. It is difficult to drive in the center of most cars.

The center channel in 5.1 audio lets the driver and passengers get decent imaging even though none of them are in the "sweet spot" midway between the left and right channels. Also, the rear surround provides a more realistic sense of ambience, The smaller the listening space, the more the ambience channels help. In my opinion, 5.1 channels in cars is an ideal marriage. I just wish it been implemented better in the TL with identical speakers and good tweeters on all 5 channels. Maybe Acura is saving that for the 05 RL.

I generally agree with the comments of others above concerning the limited value of synthesized (matrix) 5.1 channels from 2-channel stereo sources. Sometimes it sounds pretty good, much of the time it doesn't. Assuming it was a switchable option, I would like to have it. However, if Acura were to put in all the options that are found in typical home audio systems, they would have to have so many buttons and menu selections everyone would complain about how complicated it was to use.

GreatWhiteNorth

I disagree with some of the knee-jerk reactions to the use of simulated surround sound with music. I've listened to quite a few well set-up stereos that utilize Dolby Pro-logic or Pro-logic II processing. Depending on the music, it can sound very good, especially with the newer Pro-logic II algorithm.

A well set-up car stereo can also use this technology to good effect. A case in point is the upgraded stereo that Volvo uses. Even the older Pro-logic version sounded ward and enveloping to my ears. The newer ones should be even better yet.

Yes, of course not all music types process well, but the option (i.e. it can be turned off) would be nice. Just the humble opinion of an audio heretic.

automophile

Well Said, DNA and Great White North. I am sure that most people that have criticized simulated surround have never hear a good decoder.

I have worked in consumer audio for many years, and have developed and produced surround decoders since the 70's., inlcuding some new ampifiers with built-in decoders for the car.

Simulated surround can sound VERY good. It is not creating effects such as the drummer in the right rear, it is recovering the ambience of the original recording.

Due to stereo phase details captured during the original recordings, nearly EVERY stereo recording has this ambience. It can add tremendously to the reproduction of a recording.

When was the last time you went to a concert and there was NO ambience - that the sound was the SAME front and rear? - NEVER!

A further benefit of the surround recovery process is that mono sources can be firmly anchored front center as the producer intended, and NOT floating around as you change position in the car.

If you haven't heard Neo:6, TrueSurround or Intelligent Surround processing, don't knock them.

Besides, you can always switch it OFF. Acura has not given us that choice, and cut the usefulness of the audio system by 90%.

DavidNJ

There are short cuts on the chassis (rwd), the seats (see 'cheap leather' post), the features (4-way passanger seat), and the audio (stereo spacial enhancement, MP3, WMA, SACD).

What makes this post interesting is that this was a no cost item. My guess is it may make it into an '05 or '06.

Apparently the Lexus Mark Levinson (he's married to Sex in the City's Kim Cattrell, isn't he) systems for '06 have 5.1. I wonder what features they have.

DMZ

Yeah ndabunka, the burners are cheap. Unfortunately however, the software required to properly burn DVD-A discs on your PC's DVD burner is not cheap. At least not yet.

DavidNJ

Being able to burn the disk is only part of the problem. You will need software to create the spacial ambience. Probably trial and error for the cars interior. All something that should have been done by Honda/Panasonic.

P.S.
DMZ, you stole my initials.

Norse396

Anybody remember the monster receivers from the 70's?
Quad sound was the shiznit, I had a Marantz that made the lights dim when I turned it on.

Back then I used a pair of huge Marantz main speakers with a pair of Ohm F's in the back and a seperate amp for a home made sub, that system nearly blew my ears out.

Ahhhhhh those were the days.... now I'm listening to something that sonically blows away that system, but man do I miss it.

Z Factor

:lol2: :lol2: :lol2:

I remember very well.

automophile

Ohm F's? They were "the BOMB", man! They were really great, unappreciated speakers, as long as you used them with a subwoofer.

Just on a side note - I picked up "The Gluey Brothers" DVDA today - AWESOME sound and surround - check it out!

żGotJazz?

Actually, simulated surround would be an codec. You're taking original 2-channel data (stereo) and manipulating it to become something else (4 channel matrix or whatever).

I had a Rotel Pro Logic decoder preamp that I would use on movies fairly often, but eventually I kept it in stereo for music. While the Rotel system wasn't the best out there, it didn't suck too bad.

I had my system setup about optimal - speaker distances to the seating position were identical for all 5 speakers, volume matched to within 0.5 dB for all.

Music just didn't seem as realistic in the available surround modes. The music wasn't designed for Dolby Pro Logic, so weird artifacts occurred. Just because there is some L-R information available in almost all stereo recordings didn't mean that the L-R information added proper ambience to the mono rear surrounds for music.

Movies were pretty cool, though. However, they were designed with Dolby Pro Logic in mind.

The various "surround" efffects provided in my Ford Explorer are too laughable to even describe here.

I keep learning something on this forum every day! He's a lucky guy ...

dtchung

I'm not too crazy about surround sound either. I mean, it's nice technology demo, but it's not that important, IMO. I think I would've like to see MP3 myself.

The demo DVD-A that came with the car shows off system's capability, but to me it felt like they mixed channels just for demonstrations sake and not for good imaging.

As for simulated surround, again it's nice technology demo, but I wouldn't want to use it all the time.