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Old 11-17-2006, 05:59 AM
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Unhappy Lemon law?

Originally Posted by copyryte
Ok so I speak with the used car manager this morning and had to explain the whole story again and again mention how extremely dissapointed I am with their service (not him in particular but my salesman). He agrees that it was completely the fault of my salesman for not calling me back and having all this happen.

With regards to compensation he offers me the mats that I had asked for and an extended warranty to 6years or 120,000kms which ever comes first. So I tell him that I'll go over that with my wife and I'll call him back. So I email my wife to let her know...she then goes onto the Acura.ca website and guess what???? Acura Certified Pre-Owned vehicles already come with a 6 year/120,000kms warranty...so is this guy trying to screw me?

I call him back tell him what my wife found out and then he tells me that my car is not an Acura Certified Pre-Owned vehicle. I tell him that my salesman said that it was and my wife is my witness...he even showed us the work sheet that the mechanics filled out while they did their 150 point inspection for certification. Bottom line my salesman lied to me when he said it was Certified when it really wasn't. Anyhow...that 6 year warranty thing is only for the power train and all major parts WHICH the navigation and radio/CD are not included as part of that.....so again this extended warranty thing will not do me any good.

At this time I'm pretty fed up and he knows it too and I give him an ultimatum..he either gives me another TL identical to the one I have OR he takes the car back and refund all my money.

So he's supposed to call me back tomorrow after talking with this GM to let me know what the decision is or atleast to let me know when I can expect a decision.

:rippedoff :rippedoff :rippedoff

I know you purchased it used, but does Canada have a lemon law? And what legally can you do about the workmanship of the windshield? Meaning, that should have some type of dealer warranty (or Acura of Canada anyway).

That sucks, as it is not really a bad car, just shi%%y dealer runaround and shoddy work.

I have no such legal protection here in Japan. If I buy used, it's 90 days. And no other claims other than the car itself. On a new car, 3 years is it, or 50 K km, whichever comes first. Fight the good fight and screw em' if you have to......

<===================================3
Old 11-17-2006, 06:27 AM
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Originally Posted by SuperStar
They should repair everything at no cost at the very least. They should also include something like free oil changes for 1 year..
x2 and a NICE rental, like an RL or something.

Say this, give me an RL for a loaner and you can keep it for xxxxxxx however long you want to get it done RIGHT.
Old 11-17-2006, 07:27 AM
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Originally Posted by qqyy
sorry to hear your story, i was gonna to replace my windshield too in Toronto, i will definately not going to north toronto acura for sure.......

just becarefull of acura in markham, they scarached my car before and i also had a bad luck dealing with the service manager there....
What the hell is it with these Acura dealers in T.O.?
Old 11-17-2006, 07:37 AM
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Originally Posted by mrmako
I know you purchased it used, but does Canada have a lemon law? And what legally can you do about the workmanship of the windshield? Meaning, that should have some type of dealer warranty (or Acura of Canada anyway).

That sucks, as it is not really a bad car, just shi%%y dealer runaround and shoddy work.

I have no such legal protection here in Japan. If I buy used, it's 90 days. And no other claims other than the car itself. On a new car, 3 years is it, or 50 K km, whichever comes first. Fight the good fight and screw em' if you have to......

<===================================3
Unfortunately here in Ontario there is no "cool off period". Basically what that is is a law for buyer's remorse. To give you an example, I work for Bell Mobility and we sell cell phones. Even if the buyer has signed a 3 year contract he has upto 15 days or 15 minutes on the phone (whichever comes first) to return the phone to the point of purchase for a full refund and annulment of the 3 year contract no strings attached. However for cars here in Ontario that law does not apply. Once you sign on the dotted line and take delivery of the car.....well it's all in my hands now.

With regards to it being a lemon..the car isn't a lemon...the dealer f@cked it up and it should be there responsability. Legally speaking the dealer has done their due diligence in repairing/replacing all that needs to be done free of charge however I'm still stuck with a car that's been water damaged and repaired....who's gonna take the hit in the decreased value of the car?....unfortunately it might be me. What they don't understand is that when I sell the car in the future no one will want to buy it for the price that I would ask knowing the history of the car...they will definately ask me for a reduced price (thus my loss.).
Old 11-17-2006, 07:39 AM
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Originally Posted by J32a2FTW!
x2 and a NICE rental, like an RL or something.

Say this, give me an RL for a loaner and you can keep it for xxxxxxx however long you want to get it done RIGHT.
Ya...that little F@CKER of a salesperson I dealt with said that he'll get me a larger loaner car and even deliver it to my house....and did that ever happen? HELL NO!!! F@CKING BULLSH!T SERVICE!!!!!!!

I'm stuck driving freakin CSX......nothing against a CSX however I bought a TL...give me atleast something in the same class. It's not like I'm asking them for an NSX or nothing......jeeeeeeez.
Old 11-17-2006, 07:48 AM
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I'm sure the guy who owns the Bentley in the basement appreciates the cost of tarnishing Acura of North Toronto's reputation; the competition (BMW, Audi, etc) can't buy this type of advertising. Ask him if Lawence Yap and the Toronto Star might consider the treatment you've received to be representative of the image which Acura [and drag Honda into it too]wants to convey to its current and future customers. Perhaps you could write some nice sample letters to summarize your problems with Acura/Honda.

Maybe you just need someone else to talk to, and to let AofNT know that your looking for a solution and you're not going away. My sales guy, David Yip, was really easy to deal with, and then go find Wilson...why can't I find my bill of sale... . and let them know that their used car side can negatively affect their new car business: Acura don't sell THAT many cars here to not be concerned.
Old 11-17-2006, 01:13 PM
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Originally Posted by gdcwatt
I'm sure the guy who owns the Bentley in the basement appreciates the cost of tarnishing Acura of North Toronto's reputation; the competition (BMW, Audi, etc) can't buy this type of advertising. Ask him if Lawence Yap and the Toronto Star might consider the treatment you've received to be representative of the image which Acura [and drag Honda into it too]wants to convey to its current and future customers. Perhaps you could write some nice sample letters to summarize your problems with Acura/Honda.

Maybe you just need someone else to talk to, and to let AofNT know that your looking for a solution and you're not going away. My sales guy, David Yip, was really easy to deal with, and then go find Wilson...why can't I find my bill of sale... . and let them know that their used car side can negatively affect their new car business: Acura don't sell THAT many cars here to not be concerned.
Hey gdcwatt,

Just wondering who Lawrence Yap is...sorry but I'm new to T.O....just came from Montreal. And I'm pretty sure AofNT would be verrrrrrrry happy if I were to go and approach the Toronto Star and let them know about this..hehehehehe
Old 11-17-2006, 03:50 PM
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copyryte,

You might try a slightly different approach to compensation. Ask for the following:

1. the mats you want
2. a comparable loaner until your car is fixed
3. having AofT make one of your payments for you, because you bought a car but have been without it through their fault. You're more likely to get cash this way that you are demanding a check for hypothetical loss of resale value (which, as you say, you can't really prove).

Also, you've said nothing about water stains anywhere. You want the car back with no visible evidence that water poured in through the unsealed windshield.

You also want some time after they return the car to be sure they located and fixed all the electrical problems the water might have caused.

Good luck, and keep us posted.
Old 11-17-2006, 04:59 PM
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Originally Posted by Virginia Bill
copyryte,

You might try a slightly different approach to compensation. Ask for the following:

1. the mats you want
2. a comparable loaner until your car is fixed
3. having AofT make one of your payments for you, because you bought a car but have been without it through their fault. You're more likely to get cash this way that you are demanding a check for hypothetical loss of resale value (which, as you say, you can't really prove).

Also, you've said nothing about water stains anywhere. You want the car back with no visible evidence that water poured in through the unsealed windshield.

You also want some time after they return the car to be sure they located and fixed all the electrical problems the water might have caused.

Good luck, and keep us posted.
Hey there Virginia Bill,

Thanks for the advice. With respect to the loaner I will actually keep the CSX as my car is actually fixed and ready for me as of today however the only reason I'm not picking it up is because I'm still waiting on them to see what they will be giving me for comp.

I see what you're saying with regards to them making one of my monthly payments for me however that wouldn't be possible in my case as I paid them cash in full for the car and there is no finance through them.

At this point in time I'm gonna wait and see what they say about the 2 choices that I've given them (return the car for full refund or replace with similiar car). I might even consider it if they would extend the bumper to bumper warranty as this WOULD cover the navi/radio etc.

I'll keep you guys posted.

Thanks again to everyone for their support and help...YOU GUY'S ROCK!!!!
Old 11-18-2006, 10:35 AM
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Get a full refund and go elsewhere. Get rid of the car and do not get it fixed or an extended warranty. Save yourself the headaches!!! There may be other problems just waiting for you.
Old 11-18-2006, 01:35 PM
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Another Acura of North Toronto customer

Hey copyryte,

Sorry to hear about your problems. We also bought our 04 TL from Acura of North Toronto and we haven't had any problems with it thankfully. But after reading your horror story, there is no way in hell we'll be taking our car to those guys for service.

Just out of curiousity, what was the first name of the salesman and also was Mohammed the used sales manager you were dealing with?

I agree with the poster above. Demand a full refund and take your business elsewhere.

Good luck!
Old 11-19-2006, 01:08 AM
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Originally Posted by Maple04TL
Hey copyryte,

Sorry to hear about your problems. We also bought our 04 TL from Acura of North Toronto and we haven't had any problems with it thankfully. But after reading your horror story, there is no way in hell we'll be taking our car to those guys for service.

Just out of curiousity, what was the first name of the salesman and also was Mohammed the used sales manager you were dealing with?

I agree with the poster above. Demand a full refund and take your business elsewhere.

Good luck!
Thanks Maple04TL. My used car salesman was Farid and I'm currently dealing with Mohammed with respect to the compensation. I've already demanded the full refund but I'm just waiting on Mohammed to get back to me on Monday once he speaks with the GM. I really hope that he will give me my money back.
Old 11-19-2006, 06:11 AM
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I just read through your many pages of horrible Acura service. I really hope you get your money back or have it replaced with a certified. Your experience sounds like one of the worst... just under the guy who got sued by his dealer. I hope everything works out for you.

Anyway, if you end up getting your money back, are you going to get another Acura?
Old 11-19-2006, 10:30 AM
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ya if u take ur car back for oil change and they ask u if u want a "CAR WASH" say no .... their car wash is amazingly garbage .... they spray ur car with water when they give u it to u its still WET by the time ur home ur car will have LOTS and LOTS of water spot on it;s amazing..... their sells rn't bad my sales person did my rust proof for my CSX 2 times cause i told him i don;t like the way they did it the first time
but when i wanted to get a second set of tpms fro their parts department ppl there were really rude and they LIE about 04-05 does NOT fit TPMS....
Old 11-19-2006, 12:34 PM
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Originally Posted by CaliChris517
I just read through your many pages of horrible Acura service. I really hope you get your money back or have it replaced with a certified. Your experience sounds like one of the worst... just under the guy who got sued by his dealer. I hope everything works out for you.

Anyway, if you end up getting your money back, are you going to get another Acura?
Hey CaliChris517,

Thanks for the support!!!

I will definately be getting another Acura if I get my money back. My problem is not with Acura and their products...it's with that dealership and in particular the salesman that I dealt with.

I've always been a honda guy and will always be a Honda/Acura guy.
Old 11-19-2006, 12:56 PM
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At this point if they don't extend the warrenty on the electronics, I'd tell them I want a full refund. I believe the car will have electrical problems in the future and without the security of a full warrenty, you my be stuck with a big repair bill. 7YR 100K mile warrenty is what I'd demand.

Good Luck dealing with those crooks!
Old 11-19-2006, 04:30 PM
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Originally Posted by Ernie Golfs
At this point if they don't extend the warrenty on the electronics, I'd tell them I want a full refund. I believe the car will have electrical problems in the future and without the security of a full warrenty, you my be stuck with a big repair bill. 7YR 100K mile warrenty is what I'd demand.

Good Luck dealing with those crooks!
I've done some research and unfortunately there is no extended warranty on the Navi/Radio/DVD console...even if I wanted to purchase it, it doesn't exist. That console is only covered by a 3 year / 60,000km warranty. I've checked onlline at acura.ca and I also called Acura Canada's customer service to inquire about it.

I think at this point I really want them to either take the car back and refund me my money or give replace it with a similiarly equiped/coloured car or some other form of compensation (cash? A-spec wheels? winter rims+tires?).
Old 11-20-2006, 01:05 PM
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hey copyryte and other guys... if you wanna get a car in Toronto.. i can probably hook you up with a sales manager in Acura East.. he took care of my stuff pretty nicely... no questions asked... and remember... always buy your car from NOT A SALESPERSON... but someone with power.... life is so much different

i got screwed over by AofNT too........ sigh..
Old 11-20-2006, 08:30 PM
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Oh My Fucking God!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!arrrrrgggghhhhhhhh

Ok so here's the latest update.

The used car manager calls me up today and offers me 3 options:

1) Will give me the mats and give me an extended warranty (6yrs / 130,000kms) which WILL cover the navigation/LCD/radio etc. ( I called Acura Canada again today and spoke with someone else and the warranty for the navigation CAN be extended contrary to what was told to me last Friday when I called).

2) Exchange for another used TL 2004 or 2005.

3) Trade up for a 2006.

I let him know that I will go with option 1 only if they will extend it to 160,000kms. The manager accepts and at the same time I want them to provide me written proof that this was all caused by their error in installation...he agrees reluctantly to do that for me.

So here we go.....I show up at the dealer tonight and he has all the paper work ready. I look through the work order and with regards to the Navi it doesn't show any details what so ever. I ask the manager what was done to the Navi to repair it or replace it and he doesn't know what was done but knows for sure it wasn't replaced. So basically nothing was done to it and all of a sudden it works?!?!?!?!?! He's absolutely no fucking help (sorry mods for the swearing). At this time I really don't trust any of these @ssholes there so I tell him that I'm going to go and check out the car before I sign anything from them.

I go to the car and turn it on..the navigation works and the voice commands/radio etc work. So now I decide to try out the Handsfree Link. I press the button on the steering wheel.....nothing happens. On the dashboard I press the arrow keys until I reach Handsfree Link and then press select and all I see on the display is "Booting Up" and it remains there!!!! WTF..I go back in and tell him that the HFL is not working..he brings the car in and then even the mechanic couldn't figure it out...he think's it's something wrong with my phone. Are you for F@CKING real?!?!?!?!?! The mechanic then asks me what it's supposed to say when you press the HFL button........GUY!!!! YOUR THE FUCKING MECHANIC AND YOU'RE ASKING ME?!?!?!?!?!?!

Anyways at this point I've absolutely lost it and started making a HUGE scene in the dealership and there were about 10-15 clients there as well. I'm letting the manager have it BIG TIME and I gave him an ultimatum, "IF MY FUCKING CAR ISN'T READY TOMORROW THEN DON'T EVEN FUCKING BOTHER CALLING ME AND TELLING ME THAT....YOU'D BETTER HAVE A FUCKING CHEQUE MADE OUT IN MY NAME READY AT 6PM OR ELSE I'M GOING TO SUE YOU LIKE THERE'S NO TOMORROW!!!!!"

Sorry for the long post again guys...but I'm sooooo freakin frustrated right now all I want to do is just hit someone!!!! I'll keep you guys posted again tomorrow.

BTW for all you Toronto TLers, can you please PM me who you are...I have a favour to ask of you guys...thanks.

And just in case you guys didn't see this before:

I HATE ACURA OF NORTH TORONTO!!!!!
Old 11-20-2006, 09:31 PM
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you bro... sorry i couldn't make it today.. i was there at like 11am...

you can PM me... =).
Old 11-20-2006, 09:32 PM
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Ali is the guy that sits in the first office. =)

Originally Posted by Maple04TL
Hey copyryte,

Sorry to hear about your problems. We also bought our 04 TL from Acura of North Toronto and we haven't had any problems with it thankfully. But after reading your horror story, there is no way in hell we'll be taking our car to those guys for service.

Just out of curiousity, what was the first name of the salesman and also was Mohammed the used sales manager you were dealing with?

I agree with the poster above. Demand a full refund and take your business elsewhere.

Good luck!
Old 11-20-2006, 11:36 PM
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i'll giv u the name of our sales person.. AND service manager @ markham.

we had a prob with our TL.. it had a mouse problem... yes.. a mouse problem... it chewed up the climate control wires... it took them 3-4 days to isolate, find and fix the problem... but in the end it was done, they seemed pretty ok bout it too... so.. yeah.. i'll get u that info when i can (need to ask my dad.. ahaha)
Old 11-20-2006, 11:39 PM
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hey teddybear!!! did they charge you with the mouse problem?
Old 11-21-2006, 12:04 AM
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Sounds like they may have just dried everything out and put things back together. This TL will probably continue to have electronic problems. I've read about problems like this with cars that were salvaged after hurricane Katrina in southern US last year.

Get your money back and walk away from this TL. Don't accept anything else from this dealership except that check. Finally, take your business somewhere else.
Old 11-21-2006, 07:52 AM
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Originally Posted by copyryte
Ok so the sales manager that I spoke with yesterday called me back when he said that he would.

He's mentioned that my car is almost fixed, that they're just waiting for a "Solinoid?" for the shifter that I guess got damaged by the water as well and it's because of this piece that the Check Engine light is lit up.

With regards to the compensation though...I'm still getting the run around. He says that it's up to the used car sales manager Mohammed Ali (yes that's his real name) to decide what to do and of course it's Mohammed's day off today. Again I reiterate that the compensation's got to be significant for all the trouble that I've gone through and all the trouble that I will go through when I try to resell the car in the future.

BTW, I just found out that the "Sales Manager" that I spoke to yesterday and today is actually only the "ASSISTANT SALES MANAGER". The actual sales manager was at the dealer yesterday but i guess he didn't want to deal with my situation so he pawned it off on his assistant!!!!! What was really funny was that when I walked into the dealer yesterday, everyone and I mean EVERYONE became silent. I guess they all knew that I'm the guy with the WDP with the water damage........"look out he's here and he's goin head hunting!!!!"

I'll keep you guys posted with the outcome tomorrow.

Thanks again for all the support guys!!!
You should have ROAWERSED at them after walking in. and then do this >
Old 11-21-2006, 10:17 AM
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Originally Posted by tidus888
hey teddybear!!! did they charge you with the mouse problem?
nope, thankfully.. it was a prob from day of delivery.. want our fault. from the location of markham acrua, (its backyard is a forrest) the mouse prob came from there.

they gav us a tsx loaner (it was all they had) for the time it took for them to justify the problem, they were really gd about it..
Old 11-21-2006, 10:26 AM
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filed complaint to Honda Canada.

i guess i will start going to Acura Markham
Old 11-21-2006, 11:43 AM
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Small Update

I've also filed a complaint this morning with Acura Canada Customer Care. The representative there said that he will be in contact with the GM or Used Car manager today and get them to call me back before 4pm.

We'll see.......
Old 11-21-2006, 08:50 PM
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Final Update

Hi all,

First I want to thank everyone for their feedback and support.

I have good news to report...my baby is back home with me now!!! As mentioned in a previous post, the GM gave me the mats as well as the Acura Plus extended warranty (Navi covered as well) for 6 years / 160,000kms.

I was so glad to drive out of their lot....I never want to have to step foot inside their again.

Again....AVOID ACURA OF NORTH TORONTO AT ALL COSTS!!!!!!

Thanks again to all
Old 11-21-2006, 10:41 PM
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That's good too hear. Lets hope you check the car several times before you drove away.
Old 11-21-2006, 10:43 PM
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LOL copyryte.. were you in the black leather jacket? i think i saw you in the dealership...

and guess what... service forgot about my car again today!!!!! i walked in at 4:30... to drop of keys... then they put in the work order to replace the part they broke...
at 7:00 i realize they didn't even start.... so i ask one of the nicer Service Advisor (richard) to check.. and realize it was assigned to SOMEONE THAT HAS LEFT!!!!!!!!!

WTF!!!!
Old 11-22-2006, 07:52 AM
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Originally Posted by nguyen220
That's good too hear. Lets hope you check the car several times before you drove away.
Oh trust me I checked, then double checked and just to be sure I triple checked!! hehehehe.

The only thing I was afraid of not working was the Homefree Link....but I tested that out when I got home and it works...it's all good.
Old 11-22-2006, 07:54 AM
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Originally Posted by tidus888
LOL copyryte.. were you in the black leather jacket? i think i saw you in the dealership...

and guess what... service forgot about my car again today!!!!! i walked in at 4:30... to drop of keys... then they put in the work order to replace the part they broke...
at 7:00 i realize they didn't even start.... so i ask one of the nicer Service Advisor (richard) to check.. and realize it was assigned to SOMEONE THAT HAS LEFT!!!!!!!!!

WTF!!!!
WTF....those guys don't know $hit over there...what a bunch of yahoo's!!!!

yep I was the one in the black leather jacket with no smile on my face!!! I was a lot calmer yesterday than the day before!!!

Let me know how it went with your ride.
Old 11-22-2006, 12:37 PM
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glad to hear copyryte! now drive... drive ur baby like it was meant to be driven!.. ahahah

i guess ur gonna b going to markham now eh?.. ahaha
Old 11-22-2006, 12:43 PM
  #75  
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Originally Posted by copyryte
I have good news to report...my baby is back home with me now!!! As mentioned in a previous post, the GM gave me the mats as well as the Acura Plus extended warranty (Navi covered as well) for 6 years / 160,000kms.

I was so glad to drive out of their lot....I never want to have to step foot inside their again.
Congrats, copyryte. It sounds like you came out very well. The mats are worth $150 or so and that warranty is worth a bundle. You got 'em - well done.

I'll bet you looked like a bad ass in that leather jacket.
Old 11-22-2006, 09:11 PM
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I am SO glad this worked out in your favor.

That dealership really does suck.
Old 11-22-2006, 09:59 PM
  #77  
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Originally Posted by Teddybear
glad to hear copyryte! now drive... drive ur baby like it was meant to be driven!.. ahahah

i guess ur gonna b going to markham now eh?.. ahaha
To tell you the truth...I really don't feel like stepping foot in any dealership for a LOOOOOOOOOOONG TIME!!!

rt4563: I always look bad ass

Thanks again everyone for all your help!!!!!!! Just like Teddybear said, "I'll be driven my baby like it was meant to be driven"
Old 04-20-2007, 08:20 PM
  #78  
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Hey Copyryte

Just curious.
How much did you pay for the care OTD and the mileage on it?
Cause I think my friend was interested in the same car at the dealership.
Old 04-20-2007, 08:43 PM
  #79  
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So sorry to hear about your troubles.
Glad everything worked out in the end.

Enjoy your TL.
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