sjcivic87

Yo dudes,

I currently own a 08 Altima Coupe (i know wtf lol)
this will be my 1st manual car (learned on a wrx sti)

I'm trying to get something that is fun to drive and decent on gas (20-29 from what reviews say) lots of highway miles)

This dealer by me 08527 is selling a 07 Tl Type S for 20995, looks like it was graged kept. Hes only giving me 13500 for my car. I was wondering what you guys think and what is a good deal? Is this car for me?

-thanks

pimpin-tl

The TL-S is not good with gas in the city. 15 city normally for me and that is not going over 3k rpms and light on the foot. Highway I have seen 28-30.

Trade in sounds a bit low for the Altima.

jesseray

iTrader: (2)

That seems like a good price on the TL-S. I only got $13,750 trade in for my 07 GMC Envoy when i got my TL-S last month.

sjcivic87

Oh I forgot is the tl with 52,000 miles. Can I rely on Acura that the car will hold? I mean will i be investing a lot in repairs bc the warranty runs out at 70k. I love these tl-s. they look hot, pretty quick, luxurious to the brim. I just need to get the payment around $300 lol

VQPower37

the tl is an on average pretty reliable car, so if it has been maintained well, mileage is not too much of an issue

jesseray

iTrader: (2)

You will have to get a 6 year loan then. And if you are upside down on the Nissan and rolling in anything off of that it will be even harder to get around a $300 payment.

SharksBreath

iTrader: (33)

^ +1 on the 72month lease. that's probably the only way you'll get around $300 per month finance. i wanted to stick around $300 a month as well...after it was all said n done tho, check me out at $350 a month...argh!

oh well, what's $50 anyway? that includes the easycare warranty to 100k miles or 5 years, whichever comes first. car was bought in late june with 35k on odo, i now have 38k in 2 months time.

Bearcat94

The way I read it, the $13,500 for the Altima all goes toward trade for the TL-S, i.e. the Altima is already paid off.

If that's the case, it's only a $7,500 loan to get the TL-S.


OP: clarification on this??

sjcivic87

I owe like 12,800 and they want to give me 13,500. But at 21000 sticker price, I def seeing them fluctuate and give me it for 300. I mean within 200 miles of 08527 there is no other type s like this. Most are 24k+ im really feeling this car, and its manual so its gonna like a new life to me

quake97

Do you really want a 60 or 72 month loan on the four year old car? You're going to be upside down for the majority of the term. Save up some money and wait until you have a bigger down payment or just stick with the Altima until you are in a better financial situation.

Joe

sjcivic87

I was just gonna wait save up 5g's and redo the loan at a differ point making it shorter ect. Though lets say in 3 years i wanted to sell the TL. if i spent 300X36 months is 10,800. 10,800 minus a oloan for lets say 21000 is 10,200. in 3 years this car won't sell for around 10k?

I'm also putting down a G

sjcivic87

my car now is only worth 13500 and its an 08. at this rate in 3 more years its gonna be worth 9k lolzzzzz

PeterTheFish

Solid financial advice. You're going to go from right side up on a car loan to majorly upside down. And let's do some math; if you get a 6% note, to pay $300 / month after the trade and TTL, you would need a 7 year loan, and would probably be upside down the first 5 years of it. It will be 11 years old when it's paid off. That's a lot of time and a lot of miles.

Of course, solid financial advice doesn't sell cars, which is why I don't do that anymore...:wink:

sjcivic87

but why would i keep the car for so long? I'll just sell again in 3 years

samsausage

In 3 years you will be even more upside down, especially if you go with a longer term, it will amplify the mistake. You won't be paying off big chunks of the principal balance until you are far into your term.

Here is what will happen, the car will depreciate in value faster than you are paying it off. Therefore you will most likely owe more than the car is worth in 3 years.

Financing a depreciating asset is a bad financial decision. Personally I don't buy cars on Credit. My advice would be to buy a less expensive car that you can afford and sleep well at night.

samsausage

Just to touch on this more, remember you said:
"my car now is only worth 13500 and its an 08. at this rate in 3 more years its gonna be worth 9k lolzzzzz"

You will experience similar depreciation with the Acura, only then you are depreciating a $20k car instead of a $13k Car. Making your problem even worse.
A car is a consumption item, it is not an investment. It will go down in value, rapidly. It's the single largest item we purchase that goes down in vale. You will pretty much throw a $100 bill out the window every week you drive when you purchase a car like this.

You mentioned you can save $5k to pay down on the loan in the future and get a new loan with better terms. The only way getting a new loan would benefit you is if you got a lower interest rate, and even then the loan origination fees will end up being more than the savings in interest. The math won't change, why get a new 5 year loan when you are 1 year into a 6 year loan? You would be in the same spot, still 5 years left on the Amortization schedule.

I used to think the same way you do when I was your age, I have done what you are talking about doing and I will tell you right now I made a mistake.

pokin

The OP is losing significant savings from later years of no-car-payments. However, getting $13.5 trade with an outstanding loan of $12.8 does not create an upside-down loan.

Realistically, without additional cash, the Acura loan note would be anywhere between $480 to $600/mo for a 3 to 4-year term.

The TL purchase does not seem viable.

sjcivic87

Whats wrong with thinking like this?

sjcivic87

So what you guys are saying is that I need a larger down payment? So I'm not paying up the ass in interest and going up side down on the loan?

What if I put $6,000 down that makes payments $284 for 60 Months?

is the Acura Viable then?

samsausage

"What’s wrong with thinking like this?"
There is nothing wrong with it, it’s definitely not morally wrong. I don't think it is a smart financial move.

This is my opinion; you can take it or leaving, I have nothing to gain from it; I'm only taking the time to write this because I want to pass on some life experience from my own mistakes. I want others to succeed so they can afford to buy nice cars, when they are ready to do so.

When I read your statement "get the payment around $300” This reminded me of myself and how I used to think about car purchases, it doesn't matter how much the car costs as long as it's around $300 a month and I can manage the payment. When you do this you are no longer negotiating the price of the car, you are negotiating a payment. This is not how wealthy people do and if you want to be wealthy you need to do what wealthy people are doing.

When buying a new or newer car it's not the interest that will make you lose money and kick you in the butt, it's the depreciation of that car where you will lose most of the money. The interest will simply multiply that loss.
The average new car looses about 70% of its value in less than 5 years, you are learning this with your existing car, remember how crappy it feels to see your investment be worth ½ of what you paid for it.
Now the car you are considering is used and has already lost around 20% of its value, but it will continue to drop, rapidly, I’m estimating about $80-$100 a week. If you don’t have a decent amount of cash on hand you can’t afford to lose that kind of money in depreciation.

I know my opinion is not mainstream and sounds weird, different from what most others will tell you, we are told that we don’t need to delay gratification and need car payments; consequently they have become the norm and many Americans are deeply in debt.
I would challenge you to think about what you are doing and ask yourself are you willing to lose $100 a week to drive a fancy car that will not be as nice in 5 years, only to repeat the cycle and get another newer car to watch it depreciate rapidly again. The Cycle has to stop somewhere.
FYI: $475 is the average US Car Payment. $475 invested at 8% Annually for 40 years is $1,669,282.89 $400 a month would be $1.4 Million Dollars when you are 63. This one change in your life can make you a millionaire. Hope you like the car.

TLDude876

iTrader: (7)

Well said. Depreciation is one of the main reasons I never look to buy a brand new car. I bought my TL for 12.5k last November with 87k miles and the car is still worth that much 9 months after.

sjcivic87

You make some excellent points. But at 63 who wants to be a millinare? I'm in my low 20's and I want to enjoy it as much as possible. Im not buy a 30 40 or 5k car. I feel thats completley doable. In this world where you have your car, home, and possessions. Being that I dont own a home nor many expensive possessions the 1 thing I'm in 24/7 I would like to be nice.

You seem to be pretty wise, all i can say is that I already have a car paying 274. I don't intend on driving a clunker to save money nor do I intend to buy a more expensive car. I'm simply trying to break even and have a more fun car. And besides happiness is a good motivator which based on these forums a tl-s is fantastic for enthusiasts, commuters, business and anyone really.

I appreciate everyone's input, I plan on selling my car privatly and putting a large down payment in on the tls. Then I'll have low payments and I'll be ahead of the depreciation game.

samsausage

"But at 63 who wants to be a millinare?"

Apparently not you because you can't even spell it. If it takes that long then you may be considered a looser, my example is very conservative, you are putting away the same amount of money the entire time, in theory you could put away more as you get pay raises and earn more money.

But seriously, the car you have now is definitely not a clunker. Why not pay it off, you can save up some serious money and upgrade the car with cash? If you don't like it you can always get another car payment.

I'm 29, I was looking good without money from 18 until 25, it started start that way but by 25 I was pretty deep in consumer debt and dragging a car payment. I found a mentor who taught me better and really changed my lifestyle. I paid the car off quickly because I started to watch my spending. 28 months later I was debt free. last fall I traded my paid off TSX for a 07 TLs with money I saved. I'm having way more fun than before, I can actually go on vacations now and truly relax.

What is a few short years of sacrifice versus a lifetime of financial peace?

My mentor? Dave Ramsey
http://www.daveramsey.com/company/about-dave/
http://www.daveramsey.com/category/show/

Zozzle

OP, it's really tough for "wise" people (meaning - those who learned the hard way OR the easy way, but they learned) to advise you when you have your mind made up. But, trust me, when you get on the other side of life from where you are now, short term pleasure is nowhere near as nice and comfortable as long term gain.

Have fun.

sjcivic87

come on man lets not complain about how i spell a word. considering I'm typing and have zero intent to spell check or proofread my sentences.

That besides the case, I get your story. But at 25 life will be narrowing as for as opportunity. I'm 23 own my own company and about to finish up school. I already have a car and putting any money into a 4cylinder automatic is just a waste. I don't even have a moon-roof.

Based on what your asking me, I should sell my car and pay cash for another, removing debt. It sounds like a nice idea but at 23 driving around in a 2003 civic is not my idea of fun. I intend to put a bigger down payment on my next car. I really don't want to give the bank 20k NOW and sell it for 10k later losing out on a immediate cash or 10k. I rather finance 20k sell the car when I paid 10k into loan and make 10k on the car (same as before but over 3-4 YEARS) This is my idea of financing

do you want to pay 1,000 now? or 1,300 8 months from now?
when you spread out time regardless of interest(assuming u have good credit) you really are living better. A home doesn't cost $400,000 really, but it just costs that much but over time your income from 1,000 a week is now 36,000 in 3 years.

sjcivic87

That's very true. Though I haven't made my mind up. You guys seem to be advising me with good intentions without (answers) Its like when parents say don't do that and you ask why? and they say because I said so.

If you really want to convince give me a viable option opposed from the one you are turning down. i have a car now 274 a month, fucking hate it. owe 12.3k worth 14-17k what would you do?

justnspace

iTrader: (1)

I would keep the car and pay it off.

sacrifice now at 23 to have bigger and better things later in life.

Zozzle

That one's easy and you shouldn't need US to tell you. Do what I just did. Trade your old car at 9 years old (that I'd paid cash for) and buy the car that you want (I got a 2007 TL-S low miler) for cash.

That's the way to lose the least amount of money, get the maximum pleasure and be as financially secure as possible. There are no secrets to this. To do it any other way loses you more money but possibly creates more fun. YOU choose which way you want to do it. We really don't care.

99accordguy

cash is the only way to go ... id i dont have money to pay cash for the car i simply buy one that i can afford. Mentor not needed when you have some logic and common sense...

samsausage

I was picking on you regarding the spelling; I thought it a bit ironic.
I’m glad to hear you have an entrepreneurial sprit, it is great for you as it gives you near limitless income potential. I’m also a small business owner and to be successful you must learn to manage your money wisely. This way you can grow your business and get it to a point where you really start making money and not just look like you are.
Also there is a lot of risk here, the last thing you need is an unexpected drop in income and then have to worry about making Debt Payments. I made bad business decisions when I had debt because I had to worry about other things; since I paid off my debt my business has been growing at a much faster pace.
What I’m telling you used to be common sense. It is what I would do, and in this scenario it is what I did do. You already have a car with a reasonable value, easiest would most likely be to keep your car, pay it off and save the cash to upgrade.
If I absolutely hated the car that would get me motivated to reach the goal of paying the car off and saving the needed money quickly, you’d be surprised how quickly when you get motivated and work towards a goal. Then you will be looking good with a paid for car and a wad of cash in the bank, you won’t have to worry about getting a loan, the car buying process will be nearly hassle free.
You’ll also get better gas mileage because your car won’t be dragging a payment. (OK, just kidding here)
If you want to learn more there is good information out there, I learned everything I know from reading a few good books and Listening to Dave Ramsey’s Radio Program. He has a plan that is easy to follow and helps you set goals so you can succeed; he calls it the 7 Baby Steps. We aren’t taught this in school (But we should be!!)
Book of Choice for Personal Finance: My Total Money Makeover by Dave Ramsey
Book of Choice for your Business: E-Myth by Gerber

sjcivic87

i do see the value in that but MOST people don't have 10,000 saved up for a car. If I did I'd blow that on a DP for a house or something, not a car. Even if you could save up relatively fast. I simply would rather invest 10k up front somewhere else than blow it on a car. i mean what really is 300 a month? It's pennies if you can save 10k, unless that took you mad long too in that case u shud have financed it anyway lol

sjcivic87

I went to his website, seems pretty interesting. You guys make some good points. I'm pretty much leaving it at this:

If I can sell my car privately and make a good chunk a change I'll probably get a new one. If i can't get on decent price for it i'll keep it till paid off, then sell it at that point.

Thanks samsuasage our strong willed opinions is what makes us entrepreneurs ; )

samsausage

You bet it does. :-) Best wishes to you man.

ClemsonAcura

iTrader: (1)

I listen to Dave Ramsey too and although I think he over simplifies things sometimes to get a message through you have to.

What you are not talking about in this discussion is how many payments you have left on your Altima.

274 X 32 = 8768 probably about what you have left. At that point you will be driving around in a paid for car that you have owned from new and that will last you 200K or more if you want.

if you as you say refinance this new Acura you are adding 21K - 4.5K equity in your car = 16.5K versus 9K now.

So you are incurring an additional 7.5K of debt on a depreciating asset.
Additionally cars depreciate according to total value as a percentage. THe more the car costs the more they depreciate. The Type S in this case listed for 38-39K was probably purchased for 34-35 and has lost 30% of its value (the original owner likely only got 18-19K exacerbating his loss). Your car from 21K to 13K has lost 38% of its value BUT its 14K versus 8K of loss.

Additionally an Acura with Nav, Sunroof, 6MT, etc etc is going to have MORE things break on it...
The simplicity of your Altima speaks to years of use without ANY problems...

Do you work on your own car? THe Nissan Dealership will be much more reasonably priced then an Acura...people routinely find out that a simple service at Acura can cost 3-400 for routine maintenance.

I would offer that if you waited 1 year till you finish school...
your Altima will have a loan of 6K on it... be worth 12K and the Type S you are looking for will be out there for 18-19K.
By waiting you have improved your situation by 3K of additonal Altima Value, and -3K of TL depreciation = 6-6.5K better off....

By that time something else might have caught your eye anyway. I love my TL-S but... My advice is too wait. You dont need the car you want it.

If your question is...
"guys i am going to buy this Acura TLS and I want to know what I should pay and check etc etc etc..." well its a different answer. You ask if you "should" and you shouldn't...

Ruby

post reported for plaigerism to Dave Ramsey.

As soon as you started posting I knew you listened to him lol

PeterTheFish

Getting $13.5 trade with an outstanding loan of $12.8 may not create an upside-down loan. But he will incur transaction costs that will put him upside down. Dealer markup on TL over trade in value is instantly gone, as are taxes, title, license. I'd guess he would end up owing $3 - $4 K more than the car is worth. To get to $300 / month he'd need to amortize the loan over a long period, leaving him upside down for a bit...

PeterTheFish

Let’s assume you owe $12,800 on the Altima. Because you’re looking for a $300 Note, I’m assuming that’s what you have now. Assuming a 6% APR, that leaves you with 48 payments, for a total of $14,430 paid.

If you buy the Acura, you will have transaction costs of about $1,000 (Tax on $7500 difference ~ $500, TTL / MVA Fees, and Doc Fees). So you will have spent roughly $22,000 to acquire an asset with a trade in value of (per KBB, which is optimistic) about $19,200.

So you are going from $700 ahead on the Altima to $2,800 behind for the Acura, for a net cost of $3,500 TODAY to change cars. Now let’s take a long term look at the entire cost. Assuming you want to keep the note at $300, that’s 7 more years of payments on the Acura. Crunching some #s, we can see it would cost you just over $12,500 in today’s dollars to own the Acura over the same term as the Altima.

If you can provide more accurate info on payment and interest rates, we can get a more accurate number, but $12,500 is a lot of money. That said, only you can say if the Acura is worth more than $12,500 more than the Altima to you. If it is, then it’s an economically (if not financially) sound decision to buy it. If you think $12,500 is a bit steep to switch cars, then stick with the Altima at least until it is paid off.

Present Value of 48 payments at $300 Each, 2% discount Rate
Present Value of Trade-In in 2017(Est. $1,400), 2% discount Rate
Net Cost of Altima


Present Value of 84 payments at $300 Each, 2% discount Rate
Present Value of Trade-In in 2017(Est. $2,125), 2% discount Rate
Present value of Transaction Costs
Net Cost of Acura