SouthernBoy

I just received my January 2005 issue of Car and Driver today with the 10 Best Cars report.

The TL is NOT in there! Not only is it not in the 10 best, it didn't even make the "also rans"!! What's going on?

dashotgun

I guess they did not like it that's life. I am sure there is a bimmer or two or three in there how boring

cM3go

the RL and TSX are on there

Legend2TL

I noticed that also, but on the plus side Car and Driver picked the TSX and RL in their top-ten classes. I guess the conveted BMW 3 series is hard to beat for the auto magazines best of issues.

neuronbob

Once again, RWD is king in the sporty entry-level luxury sedan class. Oh, well. maybe next year. Life goes on, and I go on driving.

SouthernBoy

While my preference is RWD for a number of reasons, I will easily admit that FWD has come a heck of a long way and the TL is among the best of the lot. If the TL were RWD, it would need more cubic inches primarily for more torque. But what a nice setup that would be, eh?

Eduardo

Just enjoy your TL. Remember that this is just their own subjective list (other automobile rags will undoubtedly come down to their own conclusion).

You bought your TL because you love the way it drove and looked to you. Other magazines have their point-of-view; the one that counts is yours.

missmyprelude

Car and Driver typically only includes new cars and previous winners in their "nominees" list for the 10Best. It looks like their format is a bit different this year (separated into categories), but I'm guessing that's still how they pick the cars to include.

A few things surprised me:
1) The RL - not that it's not good, but is it really that good?
2) The Dodge Magnum. Ok, I just don't get it.
3) No G35. The G35 has everything that Car and Driver wants. The car was practically built for them. Sure, I don't like it as much as the TL, but most of the rags love it.
4) No S2000. One of the most thrilling cars to drive. Period. Not sure what they missed here.

rets

Who could list Top 10 for us???

tlram

I think C & D top 10 list does not consider a car again if that is not redesigned. Their argument was that if it did not make the cut the first time, there is no reason to think it would, again.

Since the TL is not redesigned for 2005, I was not surprised that it didn't make the list now. (It should've, in 2004!).

But it sure is good to see RL and TSX both in there. Speaks well of Acura bloodline in general.

Salut

Well said... and I agree whole heartedly...

They do not consider redesigns...

Whatever...

Salut

SouthernBoy

To Eduardo;

I couldn't agree with your sentiments more. Thanks.. you nailed it.

To the rest of you.. good points, indeed. I like Car and Driver (heck, I've been reading it for over 40 years.. and other car magazines, too, along the way). But they are in love with BMW. How many times have you read one of their road tests, just to find somewhere in the text, a comparison to a 3-series.. or a 5-series? It's almost as though BMW is their benchmark and everything else, the struggling also-ran. Perhaps the G35 and the TL and other similar entries DO model themselves after the BMW, but I believe there are those that don't necessary follow that drum beat.

And, of course, there are the advertisers. Can't pick on a car too hard because we don't want to lose advertising money.

SouthernBoy

I should ad something about my TL along the lines of Eduardo's statements.

I get excited about driving my TL. Like in the evenings close to bedtime, I start getting charged about waking up and driving to work (I take a long way to enjoy the car and eliminate the chance of stone chips on my paint and windshield). This week, I drove my truck to work three times and now I am excited about leaving in a few minutes to do some errands. This afternoon, I have a 100+ mile trip to a family thing. Sometimes, when I haven't driven it for a day or two, I take it out for maybe 20 minutes after I get home from work for a "TL moment". This winter's gonna kill me because when the first snow hits, the car will stay in the garage for days.. or maybe longer because the thought of sand and salt getting on the car does not site well with me.. let along any chance of driving it in the snow.

Yep, I get all charged up with the thought of taking her out on the road.

nauticalx1

It didnt make it because the Tl's trannysucks and its torque steer is ridiculus. Im personally waiting for the next IS, which will blow the TL away. Have fun with your hondas.

BrandNewTL

I think the butt prints problem killed its chances. Oh, the shame.

lakeman

C and D and similar mags have a performance bent (and therefore a RWD bias) . They test and drive cars close to the limit. Most of us who own cars -particularly in this category - don't drive that way. IMHO less than 10% drive near the limit and then only a few % of the time.

IMHO the TL is unbeatable up to about 8/10th in every performance category, it just exhibits some undesired traits very near the limit. In the final analysis, for most drivers, most of the time, the TL is worthy of the 10 best award, however, C and D tests them at the limit and the TL comes up short when compared to the RWD competition.

Side note: Interestingly the TL has performance numbers that beat most of the RWD competition. Look at the R and T test with the TL and new 530 in it. The TL beat the BMW in nearly every measured performance category - for $10K less!

SMF-TLS

We shoud just ignore this post We will have fun with our TL's, go ahead and wait.

Yoda117

Uhm... would this explain why the TL I was in last night slammed the IS it was playing rabbit with last night?

I didn't think so either

All cars are subjective folks... find what fits your need best.

As for me, I swore that I would NEVER again buy another Honda after 13 years with my civic...

I pick up my TL at 2:00 PM today

kosh2258

It boils down to who's plopping down the most bucks for advertising to the publisher.

The magazines will deny it, citing some vague thing called "editorial integrity" but that's just doublespeak. I've stopped paying much attention to these awards because they've become meaningless. Here today, gone tomorrow.

These candidates are evaluted over a very short time frame, mostly on a first impression basis. There have been "winners" in the past that have turned out to be really big losers long term. The Saab 9000 comes to mind.

Anything RWD is going to win right now simply because that's the tech du jur at the moment. It's all come down to media hype, statistical numbers (which can be played with any myriad of ways), and perception. Objective and critical evaluation are long gone from the mix.

If a vehicle can generate prodigous amounts of tire smoke from the rear wheels, it's the best thing since sliced bread. Not withstanding that it get's 15 mpg and has a really unremarkable, mediocre actually, HP/Torque to displacement ratio, and isn't really put together all that well.
It has good flash factor and that's all that counts.

Acuraluvr

iTrader: (2)

omg, i hav made a subscription like in nov and they havnt given me 1 issue yet, and i wanted this one....... but list year the tl won many awares from motorweek etc....

___________
tip the scales
04' anthricite tl navi/5at
96 toyota landcrusier
03' suburban z71

nauticalx1

Expected 2006 IS




2006 GS






ACURA

CASE CLOSED

pettydw

Car and Driver is the most objective magazine I read, and I have read them all. I have driven many cars over the years and agree with their road test impressions. C&D is not afraid to say they do not like a car (Pontiac G6 in Jan'05 issue). You will not find negative descriptions in any other car magazine (Consumer Reports is an exception, but aiming at a different audience).
Since I don't get to autocrosses like I used to (where vehicle dynamics are obvious to observers), C&D magazine is the best way to cut to the chase when buying a new car. They put the Audi S4 and BMW 3 series ahead of the TL in their March 2004 comparison test, but I prefer front drive winter traction and I know what a pain German cars are maintenance wise (having owned VW's, Audi, Porsche). The TL was also a much better bargain than the Germans.

direk_04TL

geez, if OUR current TLs are beautiful now, then the 06 TL (with AWD i hope) would definitely blow the doors off of these LEXI (plural?).

avs007

While I agree, the wierd thing is the G35 I think. I say this, because I have an episode of Car & Driver TV, where they did a comparo of sport sedans. And Car and Driver rated the G35 as #1, the Bimmer, #2, and the TL #3. (and the CTS and others somewhere else) So C&D ranked the G35 ahead of the BMW, yet the BMW still gets on the 10 best? In this episode, the C&D team admitted that the japanese have finally beat the Germans. They said the only reason the TL placed #3, was because it was FWD.

SouthernBoy

In all fairness, C&D did give very high marks to both the TL and the TL A-Spec in their prior reviews. And that's why I was surprised it didn't make it into the 10 Best list.

Dvus555

Tell Lexus they better put an extra seem on those seats.

vtecracer

You guys should see the G35 forums. I've never seen so much hate towards C&D after their car got pulled off the ten best. lol. Atleast there are still a few Hondas on the list.

cM3go

looks like a Mazda 3

zamo

U need to wait till '08 at least. Acura/Honda does not overhaul a model less than 4 years.

NoRespect

I have been driving RWD vehicles all of my life, occasional 4wd, in a northern (snowy clime) I will take the fwd or awd any day. This is one of the best drives I have ever had. I enjoy every day going to work and wish the drive was longer. I don't give a Rats @SS who's best of list my car is on. It's fun to drive. There are plenty of good/great cars out there. More than I'll ever get to drive. Learn to love what you drive without trashing what you don't.

wavshrdr

I just don't get C&D's love affair with the 3 series BMW. I owned a lot of Beemers in the past starting with a 2002tii which was an amazing car in its day. However I spent time in Europe several weeks driving a 3 series and I couldn't wait to get out of the POS! The previous time I had a C class MB and it was far better than the 3 I couldn't believe.

Brakes were better on the C, mileage better, more comfortable and driving dynamics felt every bit as good in the C as in the 3. C was quiter, quicker, more trunk space and I could list about 20 other things were the MB was better than the 3. Another thing I noticed is it seems that I saw a lot more MB's in Germany than before and before I used to see more BMW's than Audi or MB but that isn't the case any more. Audi and MB seem to have more cars on the road than BMW in their home market. I don't know exact sales statistics for the Germany market and it was just an observation. Even a friend of mine who was with and NOT a car nut noticed it as well as the difference between the 3 series and C series.

I can't find another can in this class that is a better value than the TL. I hate to damn it with faint praise but as SouthernBoy has attested it has excellent driving dynamics. It is comfy, fast, sweet motor, economical, great nav, etc. Normally I wouldn't have even considered buying a FWD car but the TL won me over.

As for the new Lexi, they better be packing a big dose of HP. I drove a GS300 and it was an underpowered dog! I drove it 5 minutes and took it back to the dealer it was that disappointing. If I wanted to spend over $50k again on a car I'll buy another MB rather than a GS4xx.

Something about the new GS Lexus that makes me think of a pregnant G35 and the fact is too much like a Camry! I also hate wood steering wheels. Too damn cold in the winter and tough to grip. The IS is a tiny little car inside. I can't get excited about it at all.

I really like the looks of the TL. It is handsome in an almost classical sense. It dumbfounds me why the TL didn't make the 10best especially after they said how good it was before.

SMF-TLS

kosh2258

I've read them all too, for a lot years, and I've watched the objectivity decline to the point where, yes, C&D will pan a particular vehicle, but only if the thing is such an obvious underachiever that to do otherwise would make the magazine look foolish.

The sad thing is, you're right, C&D is pretty much the most objective of the lot, but today that isn't saying much.

The Toyota GS looks more like it's gunning for the Nissan Maxima than anything else.

SouthernBoy

NoRespect and wavshrdr make some excellent points.

NoRespect says to hell with what magazines or really, anyone else says. It's all about what YOU like and what satisfies YOUR wants and needs at the time. Man, I couldn't agree more. I will search for information and ask questions and beg comments and opinions, but when it all comes down to plunking down your money, it's what you find the most appealing. Everything else may be good to know and interesting to read and hear, but when you turn that key and put it in gear for the trip down the road, does it put a smile on your face and make you happy? That's really what matters.

And wavshrdr talks about the looks of the cars. So many just like like variations of a theme.. the jelly bean look. The TL looks different and has an understated elegance with a measure of hunkered down look that I find quite appealing. Actually, I think the TL is just flat drop dead gorgeous. And I love the way the thing drives. Yes, I have a few like-to-haves about the car, but they're few and certainly not cause for concern to me. This is one sweet machine.

ChRiS_nYc

my question is who the fuk cares what car and driver thinks they've been swinging off BMW's nutsack for years. :whocares: on the other hand I agree the TL would be a shoe-in if it had RWD but that doesnt bother me--the handling of the TL is definetly above average.

matelot

I 'm new round here...is this guy the resident troll or there is worse ?

Mindworm

Dunno...I just know that Lexus still hasn't found a way to make their cars look appealing like Acura and Infiniti have. Look at the G35 Coupe. Class and power all the way. Look at the FX. Daring and tough. Look at the TL. Best 4 door in it's class. Look at the MDX. Amazingly strong list of positives. And ALL OF THEM ARE SHARP LOOKING.

Look at ANY Lexus, and you enter yawns-ville....population YOU. Even with the redesigns I've seen (which will inevitably be changed before they hit market....)

You can wait and wait and wait, or you can enjoy. It's like the guy that sits on his butt at the dance and points fingers at everyone else, but dares not dance himself.

Bonedoc

A couple of comments:

the TSX is not a redesign, so they obviously consider all currently available vehicles. No sweat, so they didn't rank the TL--although having all 3 in the top 10 would have been sweet.

to nauticalx1: you need to relax...why the inferiority complex?

nauticalx1

No troll, just gettin under the skin of these hallucinating fools who think that their TL's are all that and the center of the world. Get a life.

SMF-TLS

Lexus is the Buick of Japanese cars.