Glad I am getting a 04 TL over the Chrysler 300!
#201
Originally Posted by fast-tl
I've been looking for pages and pages to get more input on the Chrysler 300. ADMINS PLEASE LOCK THIS USELESS THREAD!!
#202
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Originally Posted by gstais
I second that! You can thank our 'resident automotive guru' (who by the way doesn't even own a TL or Chrysler 300) HARDRIVIN1LE for all of the useless dribble in this thread.
http://www.acura-tl.com/forums/showt...0&page=6&pp=25
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Originally Posted by harddrivin1le
http://www.hodsonhome.com/mna2001/ch.../adiabatic.htm
"Adiabatic expansion of a gas can be described by imagining a cylinder of gas (see figure) that is closed off from the environment and is insulated so that it can NOT be heated or cooled by any external sources (e.g. fire, ice, water, electricity). On the left side of the cylinder there is a gas under pressure (P1); the pressure is created by pushing on a piston. On the right side there is an area of very low pressure or a vacuum. The two sides of the cylinder are separated by a partition that has a small hole (throttle) in it. As the gas passes through the throttle from the high-pressure side (left side) to the low-pressure side (right side) it expands very rapidly. This is adiabatic expansion...
Everything has an internal energy, even gases. When pressure is applied to a gas its internal energy increases because we are performing work on the gas. As the gas expands its internal energy decreases because the gas is performing work by expanding.
(1) D internal energy (D U) = heat added or removed (dq) + work done to or by the gas.
Since there is no heat added or removed, the first term (dq) = 0. So (1) becomes
(2) D internal energy (D U) = work done by the gas (dw)(ii)
When gas performs work dw is negative so the internal gas decreases. Intuitively since we know that temperature is an indirect measurement of energy, we can guess that the temperature of the gas will decrease as it expands. This decrease in temperature is the Joules -- Thompson effect.
"Adiabatic expansion of a gas can be described by imagining a cylinder of gas (see figure) that is closed off from the environment and is insulated so that it can NOT be heated or cooled by any external sources (e.g. fire, ice, water, electricity). On the left side of the cylinder there is a gas under pressure (P1); the pressure is created by pushing on a piston. On the right side there is an area of very low pressure or a vacuum. The two sides of the cylinder are separated by a partition that has a small hole (throttle) in it. As the gas passes through the throttle from the high-pressure side (left side) to the low-pressure side (right side) it expands very rapidly. This is adiabatic expansion...
Everything has an internal energy, even gases. When pressure is applied to a gas its internal energy increases because we are performing work on the gas. As the gas expands its internal energy decreases because the gas is performing work by expanding.
(1) D internal energy (D U) = heat added or removed (dq) + work done to or by the gas.
Since there is no heat added or removed, the first term (dq) = 0. So (1) becomes
(2) D internal energy (D U) = work done by the gas (dw)(ii)
When gas performs work dw is negative so the internal gas decreases. Intuitively since we know that temperature is an indirect measurement of energy, we can guess that the temperature of the gas will decrease as it expands. This decrease in temperature is the Joules -- Thompson effect.
If a highly compressed gas at 145 degrees is expanded through a small hole and cools to 55 degrees, and the surrounding air is at 35 degrees, the expanding gas doesn't cool crap. In fact, the 55 degree gas would be cooled by the surrounding air. So there, the statement taken out of context is not true at all but of course you wouldn't understand that because you quote what you do not understand.
Your above mindless quote is more accurate in that any gas that is allowed to expand will have a decreas in temperature, whether through a TXV or not.
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Originally Posted by Swat Dude
Obviously you don't read your own links because this explains the effect and is completely opposite of what you quoted immediately above. You don't seem to understand you don't need a highly compressed gas escaping through a small opening for this to occur and your previous quote is so not true that I can tell you when it would be wrong. Guess what ignoramus, I will prove your stupid lack of understanding about this statement.
If a highly compressed gas at 145 degrees is expanded through a small hole and cools to 55 degrees, and the surrounding air is at 35 degrees, the expanding gas doesn't cool crap. In fact, the 55 degree gas would be cooled by the surrounding air. So there, the statement taken out of context is not true at all but of course you wouldn't understand that because you quote what you do not understand.
Your above mindless quote is more accurate in that any gas that is allowed to expand will have a decreas in temperature, whether through a TXV or not.
If a highly compressed gas at 145 degrees is expanded through a small hole and cools to 55 degrees, and the surrounding air is at 35 degrees, the expanding gas doesn't cool crap. In fact, the 55 degree gas would be cooled by the surrounding air. So there, the statement taken out of context is not true at all but of course you wouldn't understand that because you quote what you do not understand.
Your above mindless quote is more accurate in that any gas that is allowed to expand will have a decreas in temperature, whether through a TXV or not.
That amounts to a lot more than "crap."
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Originally Posted by harddrivin1le
Next, the high pressure condensed refrigerant (which has rejected its heat to the environment) flows through the Expansion Valve and then into the Evaporator which, again, operates at low pressure. The significant drop in pressure experienced by the liquid refrigerant as it flows through the Expansion Valve causes it to "flash" into a low pressure mixture of cold gas and liquid. It is during this process, known as the Joule-Thompson effect, that the refrigerant actually becomes cold.
Can you talk about anything without linking something or quoting someone else??? Answer the frickin question!!! Read this again, one more time, can you have any logical thought without quoting someone else or something you don't understand???? Prove me wrong. For the next 2 days you are to respond to all threads on this forum without putting a link in your response or quoting someone else. You simply can't do it because you can't think for yourself. You are an idiot, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha. You are an idiot, ha,ha, ha, ha, ha, ha. You are an idiot...
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Originally Posted by Swat Dude
Exactly right! but this cold refrigerant will not remove heat from the surroundings unless the surroundings are warmer!
Did your 6th grade science teacher just teach you that today?
:lol1:
You mean to say that the COLD refrigerant flowing through the evaporator will absorb the heat (via the copper coils) from the warmer space that's being cooled?
WOW! :cop:
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Originally Posted by harddrivin1le
The amount of internal energy given up by the gas (in the form of heat lost) as a result of the Joule-Thompson effect ~ = the amount of mechanical energy that was added to the gas via the compressor.
That amounts to a lot more than "crap."
That amounts to a lot more than "crap."
You are so freagin ignorant and again you show your lack of understanding!
This statement is true but if you don't cool the compressed gas prior to expanding it, you don't get refrigeration. So what you said above is that if I compress 50 degree refrigerant to 140 degrees and then release it back to the original pressure, I will get 50 degree refrigerant. So what did that accomplish?????
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Originally Posted by harddrivin1le
DUH
Did your 6th grade science teacher just teach you that today?
:lol1:
You mean to say that the COLD refrigerant flowing through the evaporator will absorb the heat (via the copper coils) from the warmer space that's being cooled?
WOW! :cop:
Did your 6th grade science teacher just teach you that today?
:lol1:
You mean to say that the COLD refrigerant flowing through the evaporator will absorb the heat (via the copper coils) from the warmer space that's being cooled?
WOW! :cop:
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Originally Posted by Swat Dude
You are so freagin ignorant and again you show your lack of understanding!
This statement is true but if you don't cool the compressed gas prior to expanding it, you don't get refrigeration. So what you said above is that if I compress 50 degree refrigerant to 140 degrees and then release it back to the original pressure, I will get 50 degree refrigerant. So what did that accomplish?????
This statement is true but if you don't cool the compressed gas prior to expanding it, you don't get refrigeration. So what you said above is that if I compress 50 degree refrigerant to 140 degrees and then release it back to the original pressure, I will get 50 degree refrigerant. So what did that accomplish?????
It is THE JOULE THOMPSON EFFECT that removes the heat from the freon (or whatever refrigerant is being uses). Obviously the PERFECT GAS LAW plays a roll in that (PV=nRT), but refigerants aren't perfect gases.
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Originally Posted by harddrivin1le
DUH
Did your 6th grade science teacher just teach you that today?
:lol1:
You mean to say that the COLD refrigerant flowing through the evaporator will absorb the heat (via the copper coils) from the warmer space that's being cooled?
WOW! :cop:
Did your 6th grade science teacher just teach you that today?
:lol1:
You mean to say that the COLD refrigerant flowing through the evaporator will absorb the heat (via the copper coils) from the warmer space that's being cooled?
WOW! :cop:
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Originally Posted by Swat Dude
Wow is right. and guess what moron??? What you just described is not the Joules-thompson effect.
The refigerant is cold because the Joules Thompson Effect MADE IT THAT WAY!
"Next, the high pressure condensed refrigerant (which has rejected its heat to the environment) flows through the Expansion Valve and then into the Evaporator which, again, operates at low pressure. The significant drop in pressure experienced by the liquid refrigerant as it flows through the Expansion Valve causes it to "flash" into a low pressure mixture of cold gas and liquid. It is during this process, known as the Joule-Thompson effect, that the refrigerant actually becomes cold.
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Originally Posted by Swat Dude
Wow is right. and guess what moron??? What you just described is not the Joules-thompson effect.
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Originally Posted by Swat Dude
Which happens to be exactly what I've been trying to explain to you for the last 10 posts. Wow, only 10 posts this time. I guess you're not thaaaatttt slow.
Excuse me for thinking ABOVE your level. :banghead:
It took you 10 post just to get me to understand that this exchange was occuring on a ~ 6th grade science project level.
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Originally Posted by harddrivin1le
I have a mechanical engineering degree.
Excuse me for thinking ABOVE your level. :banghead:
Excuse me for thinking ABOVE your level. :banghead:
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Originally Posted by Swat Dude
Yeah, I heard you could get diplomas on the web for a small fee.
It is the JOULE THOMPSON EFFECT that "cools" the refrigerant to a temperature that is lower than that of the space to be cooled.
It's a simple matter of VERY basic heat transfer (via copper tubing) beyond that.
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Originally Posted by harddrivin1le
Sure it it.
The refigerant is cold because the Joules Thompson Effect MADE IT THAT WAY!
"
The refigerant is cold because the Joules Thompson Effect MADE IT THAT WAY!
"
Your above statement conflicts with this statement. The below statement is not true. The escaping gas will not absorb energy from its surroundings unless the surroundings have less energy. This statement is not sure!!!!
The Joule-Thompson Effect
When a highly compressed gas is allowed to escape through a small opening, it absorbs a great deal of energy from its surroundings, causing the surrounding temperature to drop. This is the basis of refrigeration.
Now answer the question I asked you!!!!!
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Originally Posted by Swat Dude
The Joules-thompson effect did not make it that way. The fact that you compressed the gas and then used some type of condenser at a lower temperature than the compressed gas to remove heat from the compressed gas made it that way.
Your above statement conflicts with this statement. The below statement is not true. The escaping gas will not absorb energy from its surroundings unless the surroundings have less energy. This statement is not sure!!!!
The Joule-Thompson Effect
When a highly compressed gas is allowed to escape through a small opening, it absorbs a great deal of energy from its surroundings, causing the surrounding temperature to drop. This is the basis of refrigeration.
Now answer the question I asked you!!!!!
Your above statement conflicts with this statement. The below statement is not true. The escaping gas will not absorb energy from its surroundings unless the surroundings have less energy. This statement is not sure!!!!
The Joule-Thompson Effect
When a highly compressed gas is allowed to escape through a small opening, it absorbs a great deal of energy from its surroundings, causing the surrounding temperature to drop. This is the basis of refrigeration.
Now answer the question I asked you!!!!!
http://www.rifledair.com/old/about2.htm
"Next, the high pressure condensed refrigerant (which has rejected its heat to the environment) flows through the Expansion Valve and then into the Evaporator which, again, operates at low pressure. The significant drop in pressure experienced by the liquid refrigerant as it flows through the Expansion Valve causes it to "flash" into a low pressure mixture of cold gas and liquid. It is during this process, known as the Joule-Thompson effect, that the refrigerant actually becomes cold.
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Originally Posted by Norse396
Swat Dude,
You do realize this will be unending no matter what you say or how you say it. :banghead:
You do realize this will be unending no matter what you say or how you say it. :banghead:
How much "GROSS REAR WHEEL HP" did 1969 Chevelles make again?
#221
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Originally Posted by harddrivin1le
Got mine from UMASS - graduated with honors, in fact.
It is the JOULE THOMPSON EFFECT that "cools" the refrigerant to a temperature that is lower than that of the space to be cooled.
It's a simple matter of VERY basic heat transfer (via copper tubing) beyond that.
It is the JOULE THOMPSON EFFECT that "cools" the refrigerant to a temperature that is lower than that of the space to be cooled.
It's a simple matter of VERY basic heat transfer (via copper tubing) beyond that.
When a highly compressed gas is allowed to escape through a small opening, it absorbs a great deal of energy from its surroundings, causing the surrounding temperature to drop. This is the basis of refrigeration.
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Originally Posted by Norse396
Swat Dude,
You do realize this will be unending no matter what you say or how you say it. :banghead:
You do realize this will be unending no matter what you say or how you say it. :banghead:
#223
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Originally Posted by Swat Dude
Yes, but I like beating my head against the wall.
http://www.hodsonhome.com/mna2001/ch.../adiabatic.htm
Everything has an internal energy, even gases. When pressure is applied to a gas its internal energy increases because we are performing work on the gas. As the gas expands its internal energy decreases because the gas is performing work by expanding.
(1) D internal energy (D U) = heat added or removed (dq) + work done to or by the gas.
Since there is no heat added or removed, the first term (dq) = 0. So (1) becomes
(2) D internal energy (D U) = work done by the gas (dw)(ii)
When gas performs work dw is negative so the internal gas decreases. Intuitively since we know that temperature is an indirect measurement of energy, we can guess that the temperature of the gas will decrease as it expands. This decrease in temperature is the Joules -- Thompson effect.
This is how your refidgerator or AC works. A compressor (left side of cylinder) pumps a gas (freon) through a throttle and into a network of coils (right side of cylinder) where it rapidly expands and cools. :lol2:
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Harddrivin, answer the question
Can you talk about anything without linking something or quoting someone else??? Answer the frickin question!!! Read this again, one more time, can you have any logical thought without quoting someone else or something you don't understand????
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Originally Posted by Swat Dude
Can you talk about anything without linking something or quoting someone else??? Answer the frickin question!!! Read this again, one more time, can you have any logical thought without quoting someone else or something you don't understand????
And the "ideal gas law" is OVERLY SIMPLISTIC to describe what's going on here!
http://www.hodsonhome.com/mna2001/ch.../adiabatic.htm
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Originally Posted by harddrivin1le
Here's another wall for you:
http://www.hodsonhome.com/mna2001/ch.../adiabatic.htm
Everything has an internal energy, even gases. When pressure is applied to a gas its internal energy increases because we are performing work on the gas. As the gas expands its internal energy decreases because the gas is performing work by expanding.
(1) D internal energy (D U) = heat added or removed (dq) + work done to or by the gas.
Since there is no heat added or removed, the first term (dq) = 0. So (1) becomes
(2) D internal energy (D U) = work done by the gas (dw)(ii)
When gas performs work dw is negative so the internal gas decreases. Intuitively since we know that temperature is an indirect measurement of energy, we can guess that the temperature of the gas will decrease as it expands. This decrease in temperature is the Joules -- Thompson effect.
This is how your refidgerator or AC works. A compressor (left side of cylinder) pumps a gas (freon) through a throttle and into a network of coils (right side of cylinder) where it rapidly expands and cools. :lol2:
http://www.hodsonhome.com/mna2001/ch.../adiabatic.htm
Everything has an internal energy, even gases. When pressure is applied to a gas its internal energy increases because we are performing work on the gas. As the gas expands its internal energy decreases because the gas is performing work by expanding.
(1) D internal energy (D U) = heat added or removed (dq) + work done to or by the gas.
Since there is no heat added or removed, the first term (dq) = 0. So (1) becomes
(2) D internal energy (D U) = work done by the gas (dw)(ii)
When gas performs work dw is negative so the internal gas decreases. Intuitively since we know that temperature is an indirect measurement of energy, we can guess that the temperature of the gas will decrease as it expands. This decrease in temperature is the Joules -- Thompson effect.
This is how your refidgerator or AC works. A compressor (left side of cylinder) pumps a gas (freon) through a throttle and into a network of coils (right side of cylinder) where it rapidly expands and cools. :lol2:
#227
You SHOULD say, "No matter how much evidence he (me) produces."
How much "GROSS REAR WHEEL HP" did 1969 Chevelles make again?
How much "GROSS REAR WHEEL HP" did 1969 Chevelles make again?
I'm just waiting to see when Swat dude will come to his senses and let this go. We all know you won't come to your senses, that would be like asking a crying baby in the middle of a fit to stop crying. So we have to hope that swat comes to his.
Continue on making a mockery of yourself, I'll continue to watch from the bandiwdth and laugh. You're good for that at least if nothing else.
#229
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Originally Posted by harddrivin1le
MIND YOUR OWN BUSINESS.
No-one forces you to read my posts.
If you don't LIKE what I have to say then place me on your IGNORE LIST. That's what it's for.
No-one forces you to read my posts.
If you don't LIKE what I have to say then place me on your IGNORE LIST. That's what it's for.
Mike
#230
I'm sure you are not married because your wife would have committed suicide years ago. In fact, I have an overwhelming urge to throw something or kick the dog.
#231
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Originally Posted by harddrivin1le
Any statement without a LACK OF PROOF/3rd party evidence is MEANINGLESS!
And the "ideal gas law" is OVERLY SIMPLISTIC to describe what's going on here!
http://www.hodsonhome.com/mna2001/ch.../adiabatic.htm
And the "ideal gas law" is OVERLY SIMPLISTIC to describe what's going on here!
http://www.hodsonhome.com/mna2001/ch.../adiabatic.htm
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Originally Posted by Swat Dude
I'm waiting. Put it up there one more time.
THAT is what "J-T" is saying.
Obviously we need a larger volume to allow the expansion...
But it is the ENERGY ADDED BY THE COMPRESSOR that is effectively lowering the temp of the refrigerant. It is the COMPRESSOR that performs the work in the cycle.
And citing the "constant gas law" in an attempt to explain this cycle is extremely simplistic and not representative of the total energy transfer that is taking place.
THIS is the essence of the refrigeration cycle, whether YOU like it or not:
http://www.hodsonhome.com/mna2001/ch.../adiabatic.htm
"When gas performs work dw is negative so the internal energy of the gas decreases. Intuitively since we know that temperature is an indirect measurement of energy, we can guess that the temperature of the gas will decrease as it expands. This decrease in temperature is the Joules -- Thompson effect.
This is how your refidgerator or AC works. A compressor (left side of cylinder) pumps a gas (freon) through a throttle and into a network of coils (right side of cylinder) where it rapidly expands and cools."
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Originally Posted by harddrivin1le
But it is the ENERGY ADDED BY THE COMPRESSOR that is effectively lowering the temp of the refrigerant. It is the COMPRESSOR that performs the work in the cycle.
So let me get this straight. I add energy to the gas by performing work on it mechanically with a compressor, and then I take it back to its original pressure, and magically I have less energy than I started with.
NO! NO! NO! I must remove energy from the gas via heat transfer via the condenser to have less energy when the gas is allowed to expand back to the pressure I started at. You are a dope and I am done.
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Originally Posted by Swat Dude
Omigosh!!! That is the most ignorant thing you have said yet! So what your saying is the refrigerant circuit violates the laws of physics and the conservation of energy. Cool. You should build that because you would be a millionare.
So let me get this straight. I add energy to the gas by performing work on it mechanically with a compressor, and then I take it back to its original pressure, and magically I have less energy than I started with.
NO! NO! NO! I must remove energy from the gas via heat transfer via the condenser to have less energy when the gas is allowed to expand back to the pressure I started at. You are a dope and I am done.
So let me get this straight. I add energy to the gas by performing work on it mechanically with a compressor, and then I take it back to its original pressure, and magically I have less energy than I started with.
NO! NO! NO! I must remove energy from the gas via heat transfer via the condenser to have less energy when the gas is allowed to expand back to the pressure I started at. You are a dope and I am done.
ALL OF IT.
This link makes it perfectly clear.
And you don't "take it back to its original pressure" nor have I ever claimed that to be the case. (The gas couldn't expand if the pressure remained the same.)
http://www.hodsonhome.com/mna2001/ch.../adiabatic.htm
#238
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Originally Posted by Swat Dude
Put this up 20 more times to show you don't understand it. I'm sure you are not married because your wife would have committed suicide years ago.
1) He has incredible difficulty in social situations. People don't like interacting with him and he has no idea what's wrong with all of them.
2) He has a college education and is intelligent, but not remarkably so. His education is distant enough in the past that he remembers elementary concepts but he is very rusty on things he learned but does not need to apply regularly. But you'll never get him to admit it!
3) He is single and has no significant other. He's never had a long-term relationship and has no close friends; friendship is unable to blossom in the shadow of his controlling and abusive behaviors.
4) He craves being the center of attention in a group composed primarily of late adolescent-to-middle-age males. He doesn't know why.
5) He has an incredibly negative self-image.
All in all pretty sad. He could be a contributor here and a positive member of the community, but he lacks the skills and social graces to make it so. Instead he spews bile and ridicule on others and believes the problem is with everyone else.
Mike
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Originally Posted by svtmike
I think we know quite a bit about him from his behavior here:
1) He has incredible difficulty in social situations. People don't like interacting with him and he has no idea what's wrong with all of them.
2) He has a college education and is intelligent, but not remarkably so. His education is distant enough in the past that he remembers elementary concepts but he is very rusty on things he learned but does not need to apply regularly. But you'll never get him to admit it!
3) He is single and has no significant other. He's never had a long-term relationship and has no close friends; friendship is unable to blossom in the shadow of his controlling and abusive behaviors.
4) He craves being the center of attention in a group composed primarily of late adolescent-to-middle-age males. He doesn't know why.
5) He has an incredibly negative self-image.
All in all pretty sad. He could be a contributor here and a positive member of the community, but he lacks the skills and social graces to make it so. Instead he spews bile and ridicule on others and believes the problem is with everyone else.
Mike
1) He has incredible difficulty in social situations. People don't like interacting with him and he has no idea what's wrong with all of them.
2) He has a college education and is intelligent, but not remarkably so. His education is distant enough in the past that he remembers elementary concepts but he is very rusty on things he learned but does not need to apply regularly. But you'll never get him to admit it!
3) He is single and has no significant other. He's never had a long-term relationship and has no close friends; friendship is unable to blossom in the shadow of his controlling and abusive behaviors.
4) He craves being the center of attention in a group composed primarily of late adolescent-to-middle-age males. He doesn't know why.
5) He has an incredibly negative self-image.
All in all pretty sad. He could be a contributor here and a positive member of the community, but he lacks the skills and social graces to make it so. Instead he spews bile and ridicule on others and believes the problem is with everyone else.
Mike
Your are therefore only able to resort to personal attacks because you are unable to comprehend simply concepts like this one:
http://www.hodsonhome.com/mna2001/ch.../adiabatic.htm
#240
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Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Tracy, CA
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Originally Posted by svtmike
I think we know quite a bit about him from his behavior here:
1) He has incredible difficulty in social situations. People don't like interacting with him and he has no idea what's wrong with all of them.
2) He has a college education and is intelligent, but not remarkably so. His education is distant enough in the past that he remembers elementary concepts but he is very rusty on things he learned but does not need to apply regularly. But you'll never get him to admit it!
3) He is single and has no significant other. He's never had a long-term relationship and has no close friends; friendship is unable to blossom in the shadow of his controlling and abusive behaviors.
4) He craves being the center of attention in a group composed primarily of late adolescent-to-middle-age males. He doesn't know why.
5) He has an incredibly negative self-image.
All in all pretty sad. He could be a contributor here and a positive member of the community, but he lacks the skills and social graces to make it so. Instead he spews bile and ridicule on others and believes the problem is with everyone else.
Mike
1) He has incredible difficulty in social situations. People don't like interacting with him and he has no idea what's wrong with all of them.
2) He has a college education and is intelligent, but not remarkably so. His education is distant enough in the past that he remembers elementary concepts but he is very rusty on things he learned but does not need to apply regularly. But you'll never get him to admit it!
3) He is single and has no significant other. He's never had a long-term relationship and has no close friends; friendship is unable to blossom in the shadow of his controlling and abusive behaviors.
4) He craves being the center of attention in a group composed primarily of late adolescent-to-middle-age males. He doesn't know why.
5) He has an incredibly negative self-image.
All in all pretty sad. He could be a contributor here and a positive member of the community, but he lacks the skills and social graces to make it so. Instead he spews bile and ridicule on others and believes the problem is with everyone else.
Mike